For True Story (Boss)

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

You know the final bosses in each game? Most you need Super Sonic some you can do with normal Sonic. But its Sonic that saves the day. Some people say that Sonic shouldnt be the only one to fight the final boss. That other characters should be able to fight the true boss? Do you thik Sega should do that? What do you think?

 

My opinion? Hell no. I like Sonics friends in all but the final final should be reserve for Sonic only. Only Sonic has a strength courage and brave to beat the monster of the day. Plus its call Sonic the Hedgehog. In Shadows game Shadow faught the final boss and no problems because we know its called Shadow. But why is it a problem for Sonic to fight the final boss??

[Shaddy Zaphod]

That was why I thought Sonic Heroes was stupid.

[RustyRick]

The whole 'epic final fight against the monster-of-the-week' thing was alright when it was first demonstrated in Sonic Adventure, and we've had some interesting changes to how it's tackled, like Shadow and Sonic both super and switching places to help conserve their strength. Heroes had Tails and Knuckles also assisting Super Sonic in the fight against Metal Sonic's transformed state because of the team-based gameplay. (Although why no Super Tails or Knuckles?   ),   I also once saw a interesting case in where Dr. Eggman actually assisted Super Sonic in Advance 3 against Gemerl. And the list goes on...

But overall, I'm indifferent to wether Sonic should tackle the final boss by himself or not. It can work with other characters just as fine if Sonic Team can implement them well without having to resort to Super form, but it's unlikely. The other characters do have importance in the final story in some games like activating the shortcut for Sonic to reach the core quickly in Adventure 2 and it was a pretty touching setup in the final story of Sonic 2006 when they al set out to collect the Chaos Emeralds in order to try and save Sonic's soul, not counting the kissing scene.

[StaticMania]

Its kind of a problem if Sonic's friends aren't helping out, even though they are all clearly able to fight battles...unless it requires Super Sonic or a very specific Sonic only situation, there should be no reasons the friends are on the side lines.

[Zaysho]

I see no reason why everyone else can't pitch in and pull their weight for once. It's been too long. They're all capable, strong, brave and many of them have just as much of a stake in the outcome of the battle as Sonic does. I'm tired of everyone's cheerleader status, even incredibly powerful characters like Shadow and Knuckles sitting on the sidelines, and I don't see why they should be reduced like that. It is Sonic's series, and I think him going super and dealing the deathblow is fine and all, but I don't see any reason the rest of them can't shine too. He's not a god, and allowing the others to show what they can do would not diminish Sonic at all.

[Indigo Rush]

Oh for the love of... here we go.

 

My opinion? Hell no. I like Sonics friends in all but the final final should be reserve for Sonic only. 

...I somehow doubt that you do. But okay, I'll bite: Sonic-only because....?

 

Only Sonic has a strength courage and brave to beat the monster of the day. 

...that's a poor reason. Half of the cast are about as strong, if not stronger than Sonic anyway, so that pretty much casts aside that argument. That's like saying Tails never had courage, or Knuckles is somehow not strong enough, or that Shadow, someone who is on par with Sonic in almost every field, is not as brave and strong as Sonic. None of what you just said there is factual.

 

Sonic may have a strong resolve, but he isn't the only character capable of dishing out a beating.

 

Plus its call Sonic the Hedgehog. In Shadows game Shadow faught the final boss and no problems because we know its called Shadow. 

That's not really relevant. Shadow was relevant in Sonic Adventure 2, but you're implying that he shouldn't have taken place in the final fight against the Biolizard because the games are "about Sonic?" The games are about whatever the plot darn well writes them to be about. Sonic gets his just dues quite enough as it is. If another character is relevant, then they have every right to have focus and take place in a final boss fight if the plot wills it. 

 

But why is it a problem for Sonic to fight the final boss??

When was that ever a problem?

 

No, really?

 

When on these forums has anyone ever made a case for the almighty Sonic to be cast from his high throne so the peasant foxes and echidnas can roam free and taint the land? That's simply untrue. 

 

Listen, I know you seem to have a hard time understanding that there are other characters that people like aside from Sonic, but you really need to stop and think about what you're saying before you post. You're making an issue out of something that wasn't an issue to begin with. Literally no one here is saying that Sonic needs to be usurped and replaced with other characters taking the spotlight. 

 

Nobody.

 

I don't know where or when you got that idea in your head, but it's demonstrably wrong. You cannot equate someone having a character they like or want to see have development or be featured with them wanting Sonic to stop being the main character. No one here is saying this.

 

Nobody.

 

And on that note, there is absolutely nothing wrong with having other characters take part in a final battle if they're willing and able. If they play an essential role in the plot and the story dictates that they help Sonic take out the bad guy, then they are going to help Sonic take out the bad guy. 

 

Otherwise you end up with nonsensical final boss scenarios where almost every character shows up simply to cheer Sonic on when they're all clearly able to stuff their technicolor shoes into Eggman's mustache.

 

Ironically, Roger van der Weide's video on Sonic Generations illustrated it best. 

 

So, with all due respect, I have to reject your baseless assumption that anyone not wanting Sonic to be the only character to receive any development or focus is somehow blasphemous to the series. And I also reject your statement that Sonic should be the only character to ever fight the final boss.

 

Simply saying that the series is "about Sonic" and "he's the bravest and strongest and best ever" is not enough to convince anyone here. The series is very multifaceted and diverse, you can't expect any meaningful expansion or development of series lore and mythos if you only focus on Sonic, especially when there's a wealth of other characters in need of serious fleshing out and development. 

[SlickEvan]

I actually once had this cool idea where, if they were to ever get playable characters back and right, they're all fighting a big boss helping but then all give their emeralds if they have em, to sonic for a final blow. In which you'd be changed into super sonic in battle but it'd be like adventure where he still CONTROLS like base Sonic and delivers the big shot. Like you could choose between character depending on which story your playing or some crap. Is was a lot more well thought out before :/

But no I actually like the idea of them helping that's why I like Heroes. Even though it's forced each team plays pretty identical so its practically one big marathon boss and I like that then even in super state they control like normal so it really felt awesome. I've only seen playthrough but I imagine it'd be pretty cool.

Also it shows the other characters competence. So people would have a reason to call them cheerleaders. It also helps them use that ****ing huge cast. It also allows for them to create better stories because they have more options, whether they succeed is on them, but it allows for them to try again with easier conditions. Make a solo Sonic story awesome? Seems difficult for them. make a story with more characters, they SEEM to be able to at least do that okay. Before shadow and 06 but think about it more boss possibilities like Rush (1/2) SA2 Heroes. It makes for possibilities not only gameplay wise but story and development wise. Just my opinion though.

Random optimism rant, disengage. =P

Edit: @Indigo Rush:

Wow got serious there. I know these topics have the tendency to become very redundant but lets give this one a chance. I didn't think this was the usual shtick when I first read it, so I have hope it doesn't become just like the other topics again. Lets just hope :c

[Tails spin]

Not this again. This is a never ending cycle

Random optimism rant, disengage. =P

Edit: @Indigo Rush:

Wow got serious there. I know these topics have the tendency to become very redundant but lets give this one a chance. I didn't think this was the usual shtick when I first read it, so I have hope it doesn't become just like the other topics again. Lets just hope :c

Oh it will just give it time.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

If the character is capable of helping to fight the final boss, they should help fight the final boss.

 

It's kind of hard to argue that characters shouldn't be allowed the right to do so, especially for characters like Shadow and Blaze who have super forms themselves equal to Sonic. I can understand other characters needing to sit out in a fight if it requires someone with a superform to handle, but if characters like Shadow and Blaze are present, it can become a headbanger as to why they're not flying in the skies with Super Sonic. We're talking an extra, god-slaying powerhouse that could more than cover Super Sonic from being blindsided by something.

 

But I don't know where you're getting this idea that people have a problem with Sonic fighting the final boss. Very few people here, if any, have said anything remotely like that. The problem is more that characters aren't doing anything worthwhile, not bothering to pull their weight in the narrative and instead cheering from the sidelines when they could actually be helping. I mean, physically helping - throw rocks at the boss to distract them, do something to weaken the boss, do something to stop the boss from causing more destruction or minimize the damage being done, or help protect the people in danger while Sonic fights the final boss face to face.

 

It hardly has anything to do with Sonic carrying his weight. And sure, there's nothing wrong with someone else fighting the final boss, like say Shadow fighting Black Doom on his own. But all in all, it's about using the other characters. If anything, people are complaining about Sonic-only not because Sonic is the one doing the world, but that other characters are hardly doing anything worthwhile themselves.

[RustyRick]

 

It hardly has anything to do with Sonic carrying his weight. And sure, there's nothing wrong with someone else fighting the final boss, like say Shadow fighting Black Doom on his own. But all in all, it's about using the other characters. If anything, people are complaining about Sonic-only not because Sonic is the one doing the world, but that other characters are hardly doing anything worthwhile themselves.

I'd like for the other characters to pull their weight more as well, like back in SA2, Heroes, the final sequence in 2006, give examples of them helping out in the final story buildup, but the actual final boss fight? Well as long as it doesn't go back to the 'Watch out for that missile!" Omochao kind of help, I'm all for Sonic Team coming up with creative ways for the other characters to at least distract it.

Not to go off-topic here, but one instance where that could be applied is a final boss fight similar to the Andross fight in Star Fox Adventures where Falco would occasionally fly on-screen to drop off a bomb required to expose Andross' brain for fire.

[Tara]

Why not just let you choose who faces the final boss?  You know, aside from the fact that it would mean Sega would have to create more super form models and different endings to suit whichever character did it.  Cutting corners aside, I see literally no reason why Sonic should be the only one allowed to face the final boss, especially if they would be kind enough to give you choice.

 

Seriously, I don't get the logic that Sonic must be the only one allowed to face the boss.  Not only are your reasons undermining the positive aspects of the other characters, but they're undermining the flaws of Sonic, which are just as important to his character as his strengths.  Sonic needs other interactions, because Sonic is only one person who can only do so much.  That's what makes him an actual character.

 

Plus, what everyone else said as well.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Why not just let you choose who faces the final boss?  You know, aside from the fact that it would mean Sega would have to create more super form models and different endings to suit whichever character did it.

Aside from cheapening the hell out of the idea of having super forms (seriously, let's not do that), it's not just a matter of cutting corners...in fact, it's the complete opposite case depending on how you design the boss and how you allow the characters to fight it.

 

I'm going to assume that as far as choosing which character fights the boss goes, that each character have differing abilities. For example, Tails can fly, Knuckles is super strong, Shadow can teleport, and Espio can turn invisible. These traits should have strengths and weaknesses to balance in fighting the boss.

 

Flying should allow you to make a beeline straight for the weak point; it would also make you a more exposed target, since you don't have cover in the air unless you're flying close enough to the ground.

Strength should allow you to do more damage; it would also make the boss aware that being at melee range could prove costly, so it attacks from a distance.

Teleporting should allow you to quickly dodge attacks and get around other places; it would also convince the boss that you're a slippery bastard and it tries to remove whatever cover or advantages that compliment that teleporting.

Going inivisible should allow you to sneak around the boss and force it to find you; it would also convince the boss to use area of effect attacks in order to guarantee a hit on you.

 

All of this for one boss is quite a lot to balance, and the more characters you make with different abilities to fight the boss, the more you need to balance the counterplay between the character and the boss. And if you work around this by just allowing every character to beat the boss the same way, then you've made the addition of other characters pointless beyond a narrative reason.

 

It's a bigger chore than you think, even at its simplest form.

[Tara]

Aside from cheapening the hell out of the idea of having super forms (seriously, let's not do that), it's not just a matter of cutting corners...in fact, it's the complete opposite case depending on how you design the boss and how you allow the characters to fight it.

 

I'm going to assume that as far as choosing which character fights the boss goes, that each character have differing abilities. For example, Tails can fly, Knuckles is super strong, Shadow can teleport, and Espio can turn invisible. These traits should have strengths and weaknesses to balance in fighting the boss.

 

Flying should allow you to make a beeline straight for the weak point; it would also make you a more exposed target, since you don't have cover in the air unless you're flying close enough to the ground.

Strength should allow you to do more damage; it would also make the boss aware that being at melee range could prove costly, so it attacks from a distance.

Teleporting should allow you to quickly dodge attacks and get around other places; it would also convince the boss that you're a slippery bastard and it tries to remove whatever cover or advantages that compliment that teleporting.

Going inivisible should allow you to sneak around the boss and force it to find you; it would also convince the boss to use area of effect attacks in order to guarantee a hit on you.

 

All of this for one boss is quite a lot to balance, and the more characters you make with different abilities to fight the boss, the more you need to balance the counterplay between the character and the boss. And if you work around this by just allowing every character to beat the boss the same way, then you've made the addition of other characters pointless beyond a narrative reason.

 

It's a bigger chore than you think, even at its simplest form.

>implying that super forms aren't already super cheap by now.

 

But yeah, I agree.  I was just saying that in order for it to be canonically the same for all characters they'd have to do that.  Lately, I wouldn't mind seeing a boss where you use the character's normal abilities to fight them rather than super ultra mega hyper special awesome extra juicy form.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

>implying that super forms aren't already super cheap by now.

It's better than everyone having it. Besides, tell they can still be reworked. XP

 

Cheapening them to the point that every character can have them makes them pointless. Let's leave it to a select few having it than having everyone use it and weaken its "special" status.

[Briraka]

Or you could just not have a Super final boss.

 

 

... what? It worked in Sonic 1,2 and CD.

[Lady Soniko]

Or you could just not have a Super final boss.

 

 

... what? It worked in Sonic 1,2 and CD.

 

And Sonic Battle.... And Sonic Colours... And Sonic Lost World...

 

That's besides the point, it's just another "Sonic is the best, the characters aren't, but I like them I swear!!" Topic again.

[Sonictrainer]

One of the reasons I disliked Generations HD is because everyone is just standing by as the Sonics take on the Time Eater.

 

Heck, even Chip was willing to fight when the going got tough.I think Gaia Colosseus was the best surprise twist on a final boss in any Sonic game so far. Though I wish they had combined certain parts of the SD and HD versions of the boss battle.

[Komodin]

You know the final bosses in each game? Most you need Super Sonic some you can do with normal Sonic. But its Sonic that saves the day. Some people say that Sonic shouldnt be the only one to fight the final boss.

That's true, yeah. The world doesn't revolve around his spiny blue butt, after all. To say it does just makes him look like a Gary Stu/Mary Sue/whatever -- a most unnecessary disservice to an awesome character, if I do say so myself!

 

That other characters should be able to fight the true boss? Do you thik Sega should do that?

Why not? More options is always a good thing to have, and also, it gives them a notable role in whatever plot they're in. Their fans will be most jubilant.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Look, if it's going to descend into a "Sonic the best" topic you guys are saying it will, then let me address the OP.

 

Sonikku, you're going to have to make some sacrifices here. I mean it really can't work both ways like this. We understand that Sonic is your favorite character, nothing wrong with that. I'm pretty sure most people here are more than willing to let Sonic be the one to shine most of the time, but you can't make that impression that you like the other characters only to deny them a shot at the spotlight.

 

If you don't like people getting upset with your thoughts, you're going to have to make a decision: either you think Sonic should do everything and the others do nothing or allow the other character come in to help when they can. There really are no inbetweens with this; Sonic has flaws just like every other character, but if you don't let him have those flaws so that other characters can help out, then you leave the fans of these characters no choice but to be upset and have a problem with you about it when you give the impression that Sonic should hog everything.

 

And I'm sorry to say this, but you just can't have everything you want for yourself here. This is one of the things you have to share, even if you don't like it.

[Kiah]

Okay, to everyone saying that this is one of those 'Sonic is the best! His friends are not!' topics or saying things along those very same lines, please try to refrain from making those kind of remarks. It is what it is as the OP has made it crystal clear on where they stand on the matter, and pointing it out just doesn't seem necessary as it isn't going to help matters or cause them to change their point of view. Just respectfully state why you agree or disagree with the OP as opposed to taking indirect jabs at the intention of topic as it just isn't necessary.

 

Not this again. This is a never ending cycle


Oh it will just give it time.

 

Speaking of unnecessary, this post wasn't necessary at all. Didn't I ask you recently to stop with the posts with the snarky comments, especially with your posts only containing such? You should really keep those to yourself as they aren't contributing to the discussion at hand, and speaking of such, you are the only one in this topic that has failed to contribute to the discussion so far. At the very least you should of answered the question of the OP, which is whether or not you think Sonic should be the only one to fight the final boss or not as well as explain why as opposed to trying to be witty. I really hope that you won't have to be talked to about this again.

 

While I'm at it, I might as well give my input on the matter. Simply put, I don't think that Sonic's friends fighting the bosses as well is a bad idea at all. I don't think Sonic's friends helping him does him any harm with his credibility and his character. If anything, Sonic being able to do everything on his own makes him look rather invincible, which he isn't, as well as a flawless character, which he definitely isn't as well. Maybe it's just me, but I think having Sonic's friends standing around being useless doesn't give Sonic himself a good look but I think is rather embarrassing to have friends that seem incapable of fending for themselves or doing anything useful. 

 

Sonic Generations has been mentioned already at this point, but I would like to mention it as well. I think that it was absolutely ridiculous that Sonic's friends stood around doing nothing but running their mouths as cheerleaders during the final boss fight. After what the Time Eater did to each of them by trapping them in White Space, you would think that they would want to help take down the thing responsible for doing that to them. Even when both Classic and Modern Sonic got smashed by the Time Eater that had them out cold temporarily, one would think Sonic's friends would try to fight the Time Eater in their behalf or at least try to help them as opposed to standing there running their mouths endlessly. Pretty much all of them can fight and it would of been really nice to have seen everyone work together to fight the Time Eater-especially since they all had legit reasons for fighting it in the first place. The potential to see a huge joint effort to defeat this boss in various ways with the different skills and abilities of each the characters-which could of made it a very interesting final boss fight as well as fun-was blown off. Such a shame really.

 

So that said, I don't see how Sonic's friends being playable in the final boss fights, let alone playable period, would do any harm to Sonic or be a bad idea in itself. Not to mention there is a lot of potential to have more variety in the gameplay via the skills and abilities of Sonic's friends in fact they were playable. There are plenty of fans of each of Sonic's friends in the fandom and it isn't fair to have the characters they have come to know and love being suppressed and reduced to being chatty cheerleaders when they used to do so much beforehand in the series. I honestly can't comprehend why anyone would be okay with the way Sonic's friends are being utilized, or not being utilized rather, nowadays. 

 

 

SEGA brought this massive entourage on board, so it's natural to want to see them actually be used for something useful, as they should be. At the end of the day, Sonic will always be the star of the show as it is his series, and just because he would have an actual supporting cast with his friends being playable to some degree does not mean that Sonic's role or focus on him would diminish. In fact, I am pretty much convinced that Sonic's friends being playable to some degree would enhance the series as opposed to detracting from it, even if it was just with the final boss battles mainly due to the fact that they are actually doing something useful in the series again. 

[Gabz Girl]

Indigo Rush hit the nail on the head. Of course we want to see Sonic's friends join the battle, especially when they have the chance to! That's why I hated Time Eater so much. It's just two Super Sonic's. No Shadow, no Silver (even though Silver having a super was really unnecessary imo) and no Blaze. Instead, we have to hear them constantly reminding you about some bloody homing shot!

 

Sometimes, there are reasons why it's only Sonic or Shadow who battles the final boss, but other times it's just a missed opportunity and while I'm glad they've finally gotten rid of the MOTW formula, now I'm annoyed we have to keep playing as Sonic at all times.

[Semi-colon e]

I find the characters cheering odd, but what's always more annoying is how the game's core characters just happen to be in the same place. In Generations, they just happen to appear to cheer the Sonics on. In 06, somehow the End of the World just left all the main characters except Blaze for some reason. And then it's like Sonic goes to Shadow and Silver to turn Super because the game says so even though logically he'd be more likely to try and get Tails and Knuckles as they're his long term allies and he spends more time with them allied in 06 than he ever spends with Silver or Shadow. I'm not saying that because I'm being all "seniority rules" on the characters, but because Sonic still has barely interacted with Silver, and Shadow isn't as close as Knuckles and Tails are.

 

I'm kind of tired of Super Sonic bosses anyway, I couldn't stand Dark Gaia and Time Eater was no better (but it was more brief at least).

 

I don't mind Sonic being the only one to do stuff as long as it's justified in story, but it never is. Except to some extent SA2, where it's Sonic and Shadow, as Knuckles is more of a guardian but even then he could easily turn Super if he wanted.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

you know if you dont like the damn topic DONT POST! plus i never said it was fact so .... yeah. its my opinion.

 

easy. take your hate for me and my topic somewhere else. (talking about the first few posts)

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Look, if it's going to descend into a "Sonic the best" topic you guys are saying it will, then let me address the OP.

 

Sonikku, you're going to have to make some sacrifices here. I mean it really can't work both ways like this. We understand that Sonic is your favorite character, nothing wrong with that. I'm pretty sure most people here are more than willing to let Sonic be the one to shine most of the time, but you can't make that impression that you like the other characters only to deny them a shot at the spotlight.

 

If you don't like people getting upset with your thoughts, you're going to have to make a decision: either you think Sonic should do everything and the others do nothing or allow the other character come in to help when they can. There really are no inbetweens with this; Sonic has flaws just like every other character, but if you don't let him have those flaws so that other characters can help out, then you leave the fans of these characters no choice but to be upset and have a problem with you about it when you give the impression that Sonic should hog everything.

 

And I'm sorry to say this, but you just can't have everything you want for yourself here. This is one of the things you have to share, even if you don't like it.

 

But thats not fair. I have nothing to hide. I said what I think. I like Sonic being the focus and the playable character. If playable friends are there I like the extra zone or true story where Sonic fights the final boss. Whats wrong with that? I mean why do you think that this = hating Sonics friends? You guys have this thing to where if you like solo Sonic then you hate Sonics friends. Stop. It isnt true at all. I can love Sonics friends and want Sonic to the one to fight the final boss. I like that they cheer for him giving him SUPPORTS because thats what friends DO.

 

I want to to see them support him in this boss fights.

[Komodin]

But thats not fair. I have nothing to hide. I said what I think. I like Sonic being the focus and the playable character. If playable friends are there I like the extra zone or true story where Sonic fights the final boss. Whats wrong with that? I mean why do you think that this = hating Sonics friends? You guys have this thing to where if you like solo Sonic then you hate Sonics friends. Stop. It isnt true at all. I can love Sonics friends and want Sonic to the one to fight the final boss. I like that they cheer for him giving him SUPPORTS because thats what friends DO.

 

I want to to see them support him in this boss fights.

 

That's all well and good, but that's... pretty much what they've all been doing lately. Just cheering Sonic on in the sidelines, regardless of whether or not they could actually help take down the final boss. To their fans, that's just really, really boring. I mean, I like Sonic as much as the next guy, perhaps even more so than that guy, but the way I see it, there's absolutely nothing inherently wrong with his supporting cast actually having some agency in the endgame.