S.L.W. Screenshots (P. 54) "Grammar Errors? This game is a sequel to Sonic's Schoolhouse!?"

[C4k3]

 

This particular screen really has me intrigued about this kick attack that Sonic has. Is it the homing attack with a different animation or an entirely new move?

Edited June 5, 2013 by TheCakeMiester

[Jay (Eggemann)]

While I easily prefer the approach to "classic" greenhill type affairs in the Generations/Unleashed style, Im hoping that Lost Worlds will look epic in motion.

 

The new style looks too simple, almost more lower production values than intentionally cartoony.

 

However having played Generations on both PC and console, the PC version won as I could play it at 60fps. THIS is how Sonic should be played, going back to consoles it just feels sluggish and doesnt do a game where you "gotta go fast" justice. If this new design approach is also an attempt to make it run better on Wii U and increase framerate... then I'm onboard 100%.

[Diogenes]

I just want to say one thing, about the ability of cartoony, Mario-like games to be "epic".

If you don't think this shit is epic from start to finish, you don't know what the word means.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArJYz-Zjvss

[Kuzu]

Dammit, I missed the debate...anyway. Artstyle is not indicative of tone at all, a cartoony game can be dark as hell. So saying "WAHH, KIDDY GAMES CAN'T BE SRS" is just ignorant. Its like nobody has ever watched a classic Disney movie. Bambi's mother, Mufasa, death onscreen is supposedly "kiddy" movies, but you're going to try and tell me that because something looks kiddy that it can never be "dark" or "epic? Bullshit.

 

Another point I want to make; why does everything need to be "epic" or "kewl"? The series makes a few games that are darker than the norm and suddenly every game has to go that direction or its bad because...? Its utter bullshit. Its not 2001, its 2013 times have changed. Move on and stop trying to cling to something that's been played out for over ten years.

[KrazyBean]

I just want to say one thing, about the ability of cartoony, Mario-like games to be "epic".

If you don't think this shit is epic from start to finish, you don't know what the word means.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArJYz-Zjvss

 

3D Land had an even more epic final boss battle.

[Chaos Warp]

3D Land had an even more epic final boss battle.

As epic as VS Bowser from planet to planet in space? I don't think so. 

[Diogenes]

3D Land had an even more epic final boss battle.

3D Land's is pretty good, but Galaxy has the full package, epic cutscenes included.

[Kuzu]

And its kinda hard to top fighting at the center of the universe.

[KrazyBean]

3D Land's is pretty good, but Galaxy has the full package, epic cutscenes included.

 

Too bad it all went down the drain with Galaxy 2, but whatever.

[Nepenthe]

I don't know, there are game series that do get by on pushing large-scale conflict and feelings of being epic on a regular basis. Zelda, Call of Duty, Uncharted; completely different games in tone and genre, all of them great series in their own right, with few if any titles that shy away on feeling "big" or "adventurous" or "epic," as it were. There's nothing wrong with games featuring small-scale conflict or even little to no story at all. Most platformers I play are in this vain, like the new Rayman games or Behemoth's stuff. But the way Sonic does it has largely been boring. In fact, I'd argue there is actually a dissonance in the way the series has established itself with its themes, lore, characters, and conflicts with now pushing out stories where fuck all happens, just as there would be a dissonance with the series I named if they completely eschewed their usual themes.

Example: When I play Call of Duty, I really don't want to have a game where it takes place in the training camp for most of the time with my buddies until we're called out to deal with a potential attack in the final hour, even though you could viably make a game of this work, based on the level design and characterization. In fact, it'd be funny as hell under the right developer, but as a Call of Duty title, that's not what I expect. Why? Because that isn't what Call of Duty is about. It is about conflict involving multiple countries, a few of which have the ability to cripple the US. Zelda is also like this on a regular basis with its main installments too: Link is thrust into adventure that sweeps the entire land, fighting demons and insanely powerful villains as ordained by the gods themselves. I don't care what Link's life is like under normal circumstances, or at least, I don't care enough to want Nintendo to base an entire main title around this idea. Sweeping the land, fighting demons and insanely powerful villains, and being ordained by gods seems just a teensy bit more interesting to base an entire game around to me.

Same with Sonic. Sonic isn't a small scale series to me. Eggman doesn't merely want a theme park so he can overcharge his customers ridiculously. He wants the entire sapient populous enslaved in this thing, and as power-mad as he is, he will go to extreme lengths to get that. And Eggman is usually crafty; on a good day, he'll be trying to stay ahead of Sonic, fighting him constantly, stealing Emeralds- those throwaway things that only have unlimited magical power- and relying on monsters he's drug from the grave to keep him at bay, all the while manufacturing robotic armadas of ridiculous proportions. All of this sometimes requires the assistance of a large group of heroic characters of different temperaments and abilities, characters who can butt heads themselves as their own goals potentially clash. With all of this generally established, why would I want any of this downplayed in the first place? Just the basic pieces of Sonic conflict is hella interesting stuff.

Overall, I don't see why it would be particularly controversial or wrong to assume Sonic cannot fit the bill as well, or that series that strive to be epic on a daily basis are unsustainable or get boring after awhile. Consistent fandoms and revenue disagree with that. And if nothing else, Black Ops 2, Skyward Sword, and Sonic Adventure have had a much more positive impact on my gaming life than Colors and Generations did, and the differences in scope were definitely a huge part of that.

[Indigo Rush]

I've thought a lot about how some of the best video game endings manage to be, well, the best video game endings. For some reason, most of the Sonic final bosses are seen as overblown monsters (or on that rare occasion Eggman is behind everything nowadays) and we don't get the same kind of experience as you would if you play, say, Super Mario Galaxy or... all of the 3D Legend of Zeldas. Heck, I've played Kirby's final bosses and they had a more epic feeling to them than most of Sonic's final bosses. 

 

What has Sonic been missing most of the time? Is it the music? No, pretty much every Sonic game has plenty of great tunes, especially the final boss. Is it the gameplay? Maybe. A lot of them don't rely on what you've actually learned from playing as Sonic and you take over as Super Sonic who controls totally different. But then again, Kirby 64's final boss is radically different, and it's just as epic as the rest. Is it that the stories aren't big or heavy enough? If anything, people are asking for them to be less convoluted. Not less complex, but less like Sonic 06 or Shadow. 

 

Then as I was watching the final boss battle that Diogenes posted and a few other epic final battles from great games, and sometimes just listening to the music, then it hit me. It's not just the gameplay, not just the scope of the story or even the music.

 

It's the emotion.

 

Watching some of these boss battles, I noticed that if there wasn't a deep story behind the boss battle, there still was some grand build up. The scope of the story can really help, so it's not like we don't need the story to be epic, but I got so many chills simply by watching the last few minutes of Mario Galaxy. I didn't even have to pick up the controller. What was the scope? Bowser and Mario are fighting in outer space. That's.. about it. The only thing that's different (besides the giant wormhole in the end) is that they aren't in the Mushroom Kingdom. The scene lends itself with a healthy balance of good chill-inducing music, an easy to follow scenario, an age-old scenario (save your significant other from the big bad guy, good vs evil) at that, and intuitive control. But all of it lends itself to create an emotional response to the scene. You are the underdog (despite the fact you win all the time) in terms of size and power. You're out of your element for the most part, you're up against the big dragon. It's the man vs dragon scenario trying to save his damsel. This is a primal scene that has been in mythology for generations because to us as mankind, as a history of our being, we have always had a moral compass of good vs evil, and the best way to express or relay this truth is through emotion. Emotion and feelings are as basic as it can get for mankind. Even across different species. It's just... this spiritual connection we all have as living creation.

 

Walk down the street and you see a limping puppy on the side of the road. You don't need to perform a test on it - you don't need to ask it if it's hurt - you see the little thing limping, wimpering, and making sad noises to be able to tell that this creature is hurt. You feel his emotion, and it grips you, and you feel compelled to either call for help or take him to a vet or take him home. Or how about this - someone breaks into your house and steals a very valuable thing of yours - your child. Both you and your spouse are grieving over the loss of your child, and after you call the authorities and let the family know, you're out on the porch of your house holding each other. Then your weird foreign neighbor who can't speak a lick of english sees you two crying. He can barely speak english to save his life, but he walks up to the both of you anyway and joins in a group hug. He has no idea you lost your child. He can't communicate with you. But he knows that the emotions you are displaying are sad and depressing. 

 

Now, when has Sonic done something like this? I can think of one instance. 

 

Sonic Adventure 2. It's a bit more story driven than the examples I gave, but the basic setup is this - the earth is about to be destroyed, and it's up to Sonic and Shadow together to set things right by fighting this monster. Add to that, some intense rock music that happens to be the theme of the game. You recognize the song from the title screen, and it's familiarity gives you a sense of dignity, you're fighting because you own this game in more ways than one - you've played it all the way, you've connected with all of the characters, and now this big giant lizard shows up to kill everything, so you go Super and begin to wreck him up. But it's not the final boss itself I want to focus on - it's the aftermath. What's one sad thing in life that we can all relate to?

Death.

Shadow "dies" at the end of this game, and everyone is sad. They don't talk about how he died, the characters even barely exchange it. It's just Rouge asking "where is Shadow?" And Sonic shakes his head. Like... that's about the extent of it. The rest have the characters exchanging some small talk. But they're all... sad. They lower their defenses and talk to each other like huma- er- hedgehogs/foxes/bats/echidna-whatever. And... that's it. They don't make a statement about it. They don't have a Sonic Sez at the end going "HEY KIDS, IF YOU LOSE A LOVED ONE, THAT'S NO GOOD!" nothing like that.

 

Just pure emotion.

How did Mario Galaxy pull this off? Well, a lot of it is the music and the build up after playing a long game. Taking everything you've learned about gravity gameplay and going, "I've got this. Bowser can't catch me off guard this time - I know how this game works." You are given a brief glimpse of the damsel, the winning prize, your "special one." The music played in the background also isn't just your usual castle music, but it's an epic orchestra, and it throws in short nods to the game's theme song. The connection of the player to the game and it's experience as I mentioned with SA2 is also present here. I am beating Mario Galaxy. This game is a story I contributed to. The story is small, but I helped Mario get Peach. I'm the hero! And of course, the knight vs dragon scenario plays out in the final battle which begins with the familiar battle music, but changes to something much more climactic for the final bout. You get the star, and the music is happy and triumphant, and then you rescue the princess from falling into the endless depths of space, they reunite and it's this big emotional gathering and uses the music from one of the earliest levels in that game, which delivers a sense of nostalgia to the player. "I remember beginning this game looking for the princess, now I have found her. All that hard work since Good Egg Galaxy has paid off!"

 

In terms of Zelda, the fights between Link and Ganondorf are great, because even if there is little build up to it (Twilight Princess, you never saw him face to face until the end, and even then you were led to believe that Zant was the bad guy) there was still emotion. Why? He killed Midna. He destroyed the castle. Midna is a character you've grown attached to, so even though Ganon's the puppet master here by last minute reveal, you don't care - he attacked a person in your life. You hate him now. It's not only a battle between good and evil, it's now also a matter of revenge.

 

An "epic" game will lead you from start to finish with a sense of attachment to not only the gameplay, but the character. The story can be big or small, and the music can be familiar or new, but what matters is how the game strings you along emotionally, especially at the end. You need to do more than give us a big monster to fight with some rock music, there needs to be some minimal understanding behind the characters who are battling. The fight between Mario and Bowser was a personal one, and it was able to affect us in a way that a battle between, say, Sonic and Dark Gaia never could. Or what could have been a good final boss against Black Doom in Shadow the Hedgehog became another monster fight. He turned into some gross weird... thing and you had to beat him up like some other villain. The connection between the protagonist and the antagonist was almost totally severed. Same with Sonic Heroes. You didn't know Metal Sonic was the villain until the very end, and what little you saw of him didn't look like the Metal Sonic you grew up with, nor did he even stay as that "Neo" form for more than 5 seconds before he turned into a giant monster. 

 

So... tl;dr

 

If you're going to have a final battle, there needs to be an emotional connection between the player and the game. Whether it's through the player and the protagonist against the antagonist, or even if it's against a giant nameless monster, there can still be emotion there based off of what happens to the characters. Throw in some inspiring music and familiar gameplay, and it can work out... even if the visual style is a cartoon or super realistic. It doesn't matter. It's about the emotion that wraps you up into the game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

.... NONE OF THIS HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH SCREENSHOTS HOW DID WE EVEN GET HERE

Edited June 5, 2013 by Indigo Rush

[Barry the Nomad]

 

Has this been shared yet? Facebook exclusive from https://www.facebook.com/Sonic

Edited June 5, 2013 by Barry the Nomad

[MegasonicZX]

Looking at it a bit more, the geometry of some of the plants in the screen shots make me think of super paper Mario a bit.

[Debug Ring]

 

Has this been shared yet? Facebook exclusive from https://www.facebook.com/Sonic

I've not seen it before, but it's lovely! Damn, this game looks so very beautiful, and so very fun. So far, there isn't anything I'm skeptical about, it all looks good to me!

[Nepenthe]

Sonic's heading right for a dash pad. Ruined forever....

Not really, but it is weird. Right to the left is seemingly another path or two that would be blazed by if the pad was actually hit. So, can parts of the level be approached in different ways, or are some parts really just convoluted wind-arounds? It's interesting to say the least.

[C4k3]

 

Has this been shared yet? Facebook exclusive from https://www.facebook.com/Sonic

 

Gah, I seriously hope the game is not strewn with boosters everywhere. They're so unneccessary in some places.

[Kuzu]

So how about them screenshots.

[Nepenthe]

So how about them screenshots.

We're now discussing a screenshot. :/

[jords]

so im guessing we are never touching any surface on earth, just on mini planets in the sky.

[Kuzu]

We're now discussing a screenshot. :/

 

 

Yea, so how bout that green cylinder...

[- Eternal Paradox -]

Yea, so how bout that green cylinder...

What-Where-When-Who? You referring to the level, or... something else?

[KrazyBean]

Why would they say "Which colour power do you think will be making a return" and not give us any hints in the screenshot...meh, we all know it's the Cyan Wisp anyway.

 

Also, why is that boost pad even there anyway? Its not like Sonic can't run towards the spring or anything...oh well, I'm not gonna cry myself to sleep about it.

Edited June 5, 2013 by KrazyBean

[Marcello]

We already know a few returners, such as cyan, red, green and purple ones. They were in the press release.

 

I hope there are new Wisps, too. I assume there are, though.

Edited June 5, 2013 by MarcelloF

[TrueBlue]

Sonic's heading right for a dash pad. Ruined forever....

Not really, but it is weird. Right to the left is seemingly another path or two that would be blazed by if the pad was actually hit. So, can parts of the level be approached in different ways, or are some parts really just convoluted wind-arounds? It's interesting to say the least.

 

I think there probably multiple ways to reach that part of the level. Maybe Sonic is simply going on the fastest one?

[smogfog]

The Hedgehog Engine itself laughably outdated and unoptimised.

 Citation needed.

 

Admittedly I'm not sure about this but I think with current day technologies and WiiU being more powerful than Ps3 it is entirely possible to render unleashed-level graphics and keep fast gameplay without sacrificing the framerate.

To me the only reason SEGA did that is to please Nintendo and follow something that's in the contract.

...or because they still have this incredibly stupid mindset that Sonic can't be any more serious that what we saw in previous two games *shrugs*.

-Without sacrificing 30 fps framerate-yes, but people want 60.

-It's hard for me to imagine how such stylistical letdown can be described in contract. "Sega, on its side, undertakes to provide Sonic a very lighthearted, nearly Mario-styled game"?

-Well, Iizuka was trying to make Knuckles solo game, but Sega didn't greenlighted it, so he's clearly not the person who determines the way of Sonic franchise these days.

 

I took you up on that, I just went out into the street out my front door and asked 10 people if varying ages which game the screen was from mario or Sonic (removed all the giveaways) and 10/10 said It was Sonic ( not saying 100% of people will but still)

 What screenshot did you use?

 

Even SA2's theme, despite its surface-level cyncism

 Excuse me?

 

If y'all don't mind, I'm gonna sidestep this... "argument," and talk about this screenshot for a bit:

 

 

Ever since this shot popped, I've been wondering whether this is a screencap of a boss battle or a side mission. If it is a boss battle, then I'm hoping that there will be more boss battles than just that of the running type. On the other hand, if this is just a side mission, then it'd be pretty cool that the Deadly Six will actually directly interact with you in the levels themselves.

 

Also, what is the deal with that Tap-Tap looking thing "Waluigi" is carrying there? Is it supposed to be some sort of bomb that you're supposed to stop him from detonating?

 I'd like to put here a decent pic from classic russian litherature about "demon stole the moon", but I can't find a decent one.

 

I'm not even the only one who thinks that way about the new direction. If on this forum are not enough people with the same way of thinking, that doesn't mean there are none.

http://raptr.com/LuizSoft/news/51a7bdb314f6d80a6c/im-the-only-who-dont-liked-sonic-lost-worlds-

 Why the hell didn't you primarily post it on OUR forum?!

 

Because it's not. It sure looks a lot like Mario.

It's no way to argue like this.

 

You seem to have such a fixed idea of what Sonic is, I don't think you'll ever be pleased with anything new Sonic Team dishes out. Either accept that the franchise has changed from what you enjoy and will likely never be that way again (which sucks, cause as a fan I know you don't want to walk away) or try to appreciate the new direction.

Or you can make Sonic fangame...

Edited June 5, 2013 by crystallize