S.L.W. Screenshots (P. 54) "Grammar Errors? This game is a sequel to Sonic's Schoolhouse!?"

[Conando]

Hey, I can do that too!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nice try, though.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Super Mario

[ArtFenix]

Hey, I can do that too!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nice try, though.

Nice try indeed.

Heroes and Classic Green Hill are much more detailed and less cartoony.

The third picture...What. Are you a troll?

 

And you forgot to explain to me how you would fit everything I listed into this new style without them looking out of place or without twisting and screwing up their character (in case of team dark)?

Edited June 5, 2013 by ArtFenix

[Conando]

Are you? You're using mostly CG renders to get your point across. Sonic is a game for kids, it always has been. Even so, in Generations and Colors, games you seem to complain about as not being refined enough for your tastes, have things like this:

 

 

 

Know what? Have a Mario picture too for good measure. The art styles are wildly different, unless you think color automatically makes a game a Mario rip-off.

 

Edited June 5, 2013 by Super Mario

[ArtFenix]

Sonic is a game for kids, it always has been.

You're new to the franchise aren't you? Sonic has always been for ALL AGES. Yup, the games had a lot of cartoony stuff but almost always there was balance between serious elements and lighthearted stuff in terms of art direction at least. Sonic was NEVER supposed to be a childish franchise, that's total bullshit.

 

Do you even realize that you've just proven MY point by giving me examples from Unleashed-era games? Yeah, the exact style I want to be brought back instead of this new one. Thank you. I only saw my point proven again. This time - by yourself.

 

 

P.S. So you realized that and decided to give me a screenshot from a Mario game even further proving my point. Thanks again. I don't even know why you attached that screenshot but whatever.

Edited June 5, 2013 by ArtFenix

[Conando]

No, I'm not new to the series. You seem to be when all you're only using Adventure Era+ games...and Sonic X...to prove how Sonic is "supposed" to be. Are you just trying to find whatever you can in order to discredit me? Funny that you say Colors is getting your point across too, when it looks like this:

 

 

But hey, you know what? You feel free to think whatever you want. That's the wonderful world of opinions. As long as you cling to those, I'll always be wrong.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Super Mario

[Jack / Joker]

You're new to the franchise aren't you? Sonic has always been for ALL AGES. Yup, the games had a lot of cartoony stuff but almost always there was balance between serious elements and lighthearted stuff in terms of art direction at least. Sonic was NEVER supposed to be a childish franchise, that's total bullshit.

 

You act like it's totally impossible for something primarily aimed at children to have any serious elements. Remember when Eggman drained the innocent Wisps of their power and lifesource, leaving them corrupted and turning Sonic into a rampaging monster? Of course you don't, because it was subtle. Like dark or serious elements kind of always were in the Classic games, and in pretty much everything aimed at children ever.

 

 

 

P.S. Sp you realized that and decided to give me a screenshot from a Mario game even further proving my point. Thanks again. I don't even know why you attached that screenshot but whatever.

 

You can say he's just proving your point all you want, but you know he and everyone else who bothers to argue with you really aren't.

 

Or am I just proving your point?

[ArtFenix]

Are you a troll? It's pissing me off trying to reason with them.

I gave you a lot of screenshots and art pieces from several different eras of the franchise. If you tokk a couple of seconds of your precious time and just looked at them instead of doing God knows what, they you'd already realize that you're just proving my point. ...if you just read my posts, that is.

 

BTW Colors still looks way more detailed and beautiful. Even if I hate that level trope so nope again.

 

Also, looking at your avatar and nickname of you and the other person liking your posts it really shows what I am trying to reason with. I've said what I wanted and gave solid examples and explanation. I won't repeat myself.

Have a nice day.

[Conando]

You do realize you've been arguing against forum regulars, right? It's Wreck-It Ralph and the Joker, dude. So, you discredit me just due to a name change. Hmph.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Super Mario

[Jolt_TH]

And guess what? Mario is ALSO a game for ALL-AGES, SEGA decided to change the artstyle, so what? It's still Sonic, he is doing what sonic does, running around collecting rings and saving his friends. 06 was possibly the least "sonicy" he has ever been, the realistic art style, the FF plot for Shadow and Silver and what was Sonics plot? Saving a princess...who else does that every game? Hmm?

There is no conspiracy between SEGA and Nintendo, so they changed the artstyle? Big deal, they changed it in CD, Adventure, 06, Unleashed and now Lost World, it's natural progression, the Unleashed artstyle has had a pretty long run compared to most. As long as the game plays like sonic and feels like sonic then even if they were to do a cell shaded WW artstyle it'll still be sonic, just looking different. It's not like he'll return to the "Chaos Observatory" after every level

[ArtFenix]

I raised another problem but you decided to ignore it giving me picture that only further prove my point and now you're saying I'm doing something wrong. What.

Alrighty. Here. Take a good read if you missed that and try to give better examples this time so we could actually have some kind of decent argument.

 

 

Another problem with this new style is that now it'll be incredibly hard if not impossible to include such amazing things and characters in the games.

it's natural progression, the Unleashed artstyle has had a pretty long run compared to most

It's degradation. So what if Unleashed had a longer run than other games? Not long ago the whole fanbase was cheering that style saying that it's perfect. Now I see everything going all over again.

Sonic was always pushing limits to the visuals and always looked very different from Mario and the levels were almost always so pretty to look at! Now it looks like a drawing of 3 year old child. The trees, the grass, the cute little badniks etc. Its degradation in every way. You still think it fits Sonic and looks beautiful? Really?

Well, I sure don't.

Edited June 5, 2013 by ArtFenix

[Conando]

 

 

Dem Mario games. So childish that they have horrific aliens and world conquering demons as their final bosses. There's more to being mature than looking like Dark Gaia. There's no point in even arguing with you, you're lost in your own little world. You can take that as your victory, if you so wish.

 

(Good lord, the entirety of PiT was more dark and "mature" then any Sonic game. It really creeped me out the first time I played.)

Edited June 5, 2013 by Super Mario

[Jolt_TH]

Another problem with this new style is that now it'll be incredibly hard if not impossible to include such amazing things and characters in the games.

*Pictures*

because it's too serious, dark and angsty for poor little children

The ONLY reason things like that wouldn't have been included is because SEGA didn't want to, you want MOTW? we have 6, giant killer robots? Nothing stopping Eggman ( aside from the plot) team dark? Again nothing stopping them from appearing (maybe critics "shitty friends)

The artstyle isn't stopping SEGA doing anything, and the only thing on "contract" is a 3 game deal, that's it.

I really hope this new style is only for SLW and then they'll bring back the one from Unleashed (aside from Humans, of course).

And what if it isn't? What if SEGA decide they like it and keep it for 3 games like Unleashed?

I wonder how they could make these levels in the games like All stars racing or M&S. Speaking of the latter, if there would be levels from SLW and some Mario game, people who are not into the series will no be able to tell which level is from which series and that's what was always making Sonic games stand out. You could always differenciate them from Mario.

I took you up on that, I just went out into the street out my front door and asked 10 people if varying ages which game the screen was from mario or Sonic (removed all the giveaways) and 10/10 said It was Sonic ( not saying 100% of people will but still)

[ArtFenix]

There's no point in even arguing with you, you're lost in your own little world. You can take that as your victory, if you so wish.

It's funny because I can say absolutely the same about you, especially since none of your screenshots answered my question about how you'd include something as serious, dark and epic as things on my screenshots. And your last screenshots still look much more cartoony than anything I presented above. Fail.

 

It's like I've been talking to a dead robot. Yeah, that must be it!

 

 

Also, Eggman could deal with fucking alien invasion, almost succeeded in blowing the whole city to pieces, could control Time-eater, could send Sonic to his death (thanks to the fake c.e. Sonic freed himself but still) and now he's lost to a bunch of Monsters Inc. rip-offs. Yeah. Eggman never fell so low.

 

 

I took you up on that, I just went out into the street out my front door and asked 10 people if varying ages which game the screen was from mario or Sonic (removed all the giveaways) and 10/10 said It was Sonic ( not saying 100% of people will but still)

How about you remove rings, springs, badnicks, slopes and checkered textres and Sonic himself and show those pictures again? because, you know.. Showing a picture with Sonic on it would HIGHLY unlikely make a person think it's from a Mario game. I don't think you did that. Maybe you've just removed rings and Sonic himself but unfortunately that's not enough.

Edited June 5, 2013 by ArtFenix

[Dr. Mechano]

I think it bears repeating: "dark" does not equal "mature," nor does "light" equal "childish."

 

Mario is a brightly-colored, generally happy series with a rather idealistic tone. It features a likable group of heroes, a main antagonist who hovers back and forth between "menacing" and "adorable" depending on the writer, and - even at its darkest moments (as in the RPGs) - never becomes needlessly gritty or cynical. It's a fantastic series for all ages, and I - for one - do not take comparisons to the Mario series as an insult.

 

Sonic is actually quite similar, and it always has been. I said similar, of course, not exactly the same, but the similarities are pronounced enough to mention here. It too features a bright, colorful world, likable and positive heroes, a bad guy with occasional nice qualities, and - despite occasionally dipping into darker territory with its plots - an overall theme of optimism and faith in the goodness of humanity (Even SA2's theme, despite its surface-level cyncism, could be summed up as "Humanity is basically good").

 

Games like Shadow the Hedgehog and 2K6 were anomalies, not the norm. Even the Adventure games were - while darker than their predecessors - still pretty colorful and positive, from a big-picture standpoint. Lost World may be stylistically different from its predecessors in some respects, but I feel that the overall look and feel of the series is intact. Due to this, I for one welcome Lost World's art direction, and do not feel it to be patronizing or childish in the least.

[Komodin]

If y'all don't mind, I'm gonna sidestep this... "argument," and talk about this screenshot for a bit:

 

 

Ever since this shot popped, I've been wondering whether this is a screencap of a boss battle or a side mission. If it is a boss battle, then I'm hoping that there will be more boss battles than just that of the running type. On the other hand, if this is just a side mission, then it'd be pretty cool that the Deadly Six will actually directly interact with you in the levels themselves.

 

Also, what is the deal with that Tap-Tap looking thing "Waluigi" is carrying there? Is it supposed to be some sort of bomb that you're supposed to stop him from detonating?

[Jolt_TH]

It's funny because I can say absolutely the same about you, especially since none of your screenshots answered my question about how you'd include something as serious, dark and epic as things on my screenshots. And your last screenshots still look much more cartoony than anything I presented above. Fail.

Since when does cartoony = kiddy or less Epic?

It's like I've been talking to a dead robot. Yeah, that must be it!

Can we please not resort to insults :/

Also, Eggman could deal with fucking alien invasion, almost succeeded in blowing the whole city to pieces, could control Time-eater, could send Sonic to his death (thanks to the fake c.e. Sonic freed himself but still) and now he's lost to a bunch of Monsters Inc. rip-offs. Yeah. Eggman never fell so low.

All those times Eggman had a trick up his sleeve or he had an army or something. As far as we can tell from the story they came from the emerald(s) while he was experimenting, so he had nothing, he is just a man after all.

How about you remove rings, springs, badnicks and Sonic himself and show those pictures again? because, you know.. Showing a picture with Sonic on it would HIGHLY unlikely make a person think it's from a Mario game.

If you READ my post I said I removed all the giveaways (rings/springs/sonic) I'm not an idiot so please don't talk to me as such

Edited June 5, 2013 by Jolt_TH

[Conando]

What the heck, I was trying to edit my post because I just realized one of the things I hotlinked was from Sonic cult. Rather we not have to deal with that. 

Edited June 5, 2013 by Super Mario

[Jolt_TH]

If y'all don't mind, I'm gonna sidestep this... "argument," and talk about this screenshot for a bit:

Ever since this shot popped, I've been wondering whether this is a screencap of a boss battle or a side mission. If it is a boss battle, then I'm hoping that there will be more boss battles than just that of the running type. On the other hand, if this is just a side mission, then it'd be pretty cool that the Deadly Six will actually directly interact with you in the levels themselves.

Also, what is the deal with that Tap-Tap looking thing "Waluigi" is carrying there? Is it supposed to be some sort of bomb that you're supposed to stop him from detonating?

I agree, I think if they interacted with you in an level or two it would be great, would be nice to go back to having the villains actually actively try to stop you as opposed to just waiting for you to hunt them down!

I'm not sure, to me it just looks like a head! Maybe it's a bomb or a plant or something along those lines? Looks like we have to chase him anyway (unless its the start of the boss and he's running off screen and then when we get to the boss he's balancing on it like a circus act trying to squish you?)

[Conando]

It seems like a bomb to me, just considering the things here. Then again, maybe it is some weird thing that's important to the island.

[ArtFenix]

Even the Adventure games were - while darker than their predecessors - still pretty colorful and positive, from a big-picture standpoint.

You know, the adventure sub-series gave rise to a hell lot of new Sonic fans, right?

Since when does cartoony = kiddy or less Epic?

Because Sonic Lost World doesn't look epic in the slightest. Look at the screenshots I presented and watch an intro of Unleashed. Tell me that's not epic. SLW only looks childish.

Can we please not resort to insults :/

So ignoring most of my point and spamming me with irrelevant to my question pics in not an insult also?

All those times Eggman had a trick up his sleeve or he had an army or something.

He was building fucking FLEETS of AIRSHIPS and Space Colonies in the time span of a few WEEKS/MONTHS!! How come he couldn't defeat a bunch of freaks?! He captures fucking Super Sonic for God's sake! He predicted his every move but he couldn't make up the way to deal with these bastards? Yeaaaaaaah.

If you READ my post I said I removed all the giveaways (rings/springs/sonic) I'm not an idiot so please don't talk to me as such

 

Something tells me you didn't remove enough givaways. Here, please, use this. I already can't really tell it's from a Sonic game especially after looking at Generations or Colors or Adventures.

 

Edited June 5, 2013 by ArtFenix

[Dr. Mechano]

You know, the adventure sub-series gave rise to a hell lot of new Sonic fans, right?

I'm not sure you understand what I meant...?

 

I was simply saying that the Adventure games - despite being somewhat darker in tone than their predecessors - were still filled with colorful environments and positive, idealistic storytelling themes. Far from putting down the Adventure games, I was praising them while showing how - despite superficial differences from the classic games - they thematically had a lot more in common than people tend to give them credit for.

 

All this, of course, was to tie back in to my primary argument: That the Sonic series is no stranger to bright colors or a positive tone.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Doc Eggman

[Jolt_TH]

You know, the adventure sub-series gave rise to a hell lot of new Sonic fans, right?

Because Sonic Lost World doesn't look epic in the slightest. Look at the screenshots I presented and watch an intro of Unleashed. Tell me that's not epic. SLW only looks childish.

So ignoring most of my point and spamming me with irrelevant to my question pics in not an insult also?

He was building fucking FLEETS of AIRSHIPS and Space Colonies in the time span of a few WEEKS/MONTHS!! How come he couldn't defeat a bunch of freaks?! He captures fucking Super Sonic for God's sake! He predicted his every move but he couldn't make up the way to deal with these bastards? Yeaaaaaaah.

Something tells me you didn't remove enough givaways. Here, please, use this. I already can't really tell it's from a Sonic game especially after looking at Generations or Colors or Adventures.

As did pretty much every sonic game, new fans are added when new people buy the games, people enter the franchise pretty much every game.

Again cartoony =/= childish and not epic, sure the Unleashed into looks epic, it's CGi, Wind Waker is epic in a lot of varying monents, that's cartoony, heck mario galaxy itself (the game you are convinced this is a carbon copy of) is epic and its cartoony.

Yeah he did, but he wasn't expecting anything to come out of them especially after Chaos, he was in a lab with 6 monsters. Also what happened in most of those games you are referencing? Oh yeah the monster grew too powerful and overthrew him.

Yeah, no. The one I used is fine it doesn't show anything that would give it away and gives the whole picture, rather than extremely cropped shots that are designed to make it look like mario. I'm giving people most of the picture I can

[ArtFenix]

extremely cropped shots

...which represent the new style the best without showing the elements that really represent Sonic games.

It's al about the style. My "extremely cropped shots" show what the new style is all about while you try to show people actual screenshots with something trivial removed. Dude, the level structure =/= the art direction and THAT's what I've been talking about all this darn time. Isn't that obvious? Sure, level structure looks like a new style of gameplay for a Sonic game. HOWEVER the art direction doesn't give me that same impression at all.

[Dr. Mechano]

I want to make a quick aside about the term "epic" that keeps popping up in this argument.

 

Do we need everything to be "epic?"

 

Must every Sonic game's stakes be the complete destruction of the universe, culminating in Super Sonic fighting off against the latest demigod of the week? That formula has become... well, formulaic. I daresay, ladies and gentlemen, that when everything is "epic," nothing is.

 

The Deadly Six - as new villains go - seem like a nice departure from the non-personalities we usually get (Chaos, Black Doom, Dark Gaia, I could on...), and I think sometimes, it's better for the story/characters to be charming and endearing rather than "epic."

 

Is there no place for giant god-monsters threatening the destruction of the entire world/universe/tri-state area? I didn't say that; Such villains and such stakes can surely work, but they're only stirring or interesting if they're not the norm. If Sonic's pummeling cosmic destroyers every day, then the impact of such storylines is severely weakened by their ubiquity.

[Candescence]

Doc Eggman pretty much has it right. God forbid that a fundamentally cartoony franchise actually deviates in tone and aesthetic from time to time and actually tries something new and interesting. Not everything needs to be "epic", we have enough of that crap dragging down the industry as it is.

 

As others have repeatedly stated, you can have a colourful, cartoon-like world and still have mature and/or "dark" themes (and mature =/= dark, many "dark" works are as immature as you can get). To say "cartoony  = childish and vapid" is a goddamn fallacy, proven false by countless Japanese animated works, Pixar, and the likes of Friendship Is Magic. It's an aggravating fallacy that has time and time again perpetuated the Animation Age Ghetto, and, pardon my French, is fucking bullshit.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Shirou Emiya