Official Sonic 2006 topic

[Semi-colon e]

I meant that there were a hundreds of thousands of people who used to buy Sonic from SA to 2006 (and to Black Knight). They couldn't die or suddenly fall in love with Unleashed when it came out. There must be hundreds or at least tens of thousands of former Adventure fans. And where are they?

 

Potentially in the silent majority who don't really care as much as you do? Or that they've decided they don't like those games as much as they used to? Or maybe they decided they weren't into Sonic anymore period? Or the opposite where they're not just Adventure fans but like most of the games anyway? There's too many variables here. People's tastes change over time whether they change to an opinion where they agree or disagree with you, it's not static.

 

Or people's tastes can change, I suppose. Not definitely will.

Edited January 31, 2013 by Semi-colon e

[ArtFenix]

I said I wouldn't post in this damned topic but let's make an exception.

There must be hundreds or at least tens of thousands of former Adventure fans. And where are they?

You're looking at one).

Potentially in the silent majority who don't really care as much as you do?

I guess that's the case with me though I sure can't say I don't care about bringing back the adventure style or the possible announcement of Sonic adventure 3 (or whatever that game might be named) one day. I just understood that shouting about it when most of the board members are agains your opinion is at the very least useless.

P.S. Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Colors, Sonic Generations and both Sonic 4 pieces were definitely targeted at Classic fans hence the prevalence of 2D, Solo-Sonica crap and shallow stories.

Edited January 31, 2013 by ArtFenix

[Tornado]

These conversations is like a game translated by pirates, where you can't see a connection between question and an answer... It's also weird you're explaining my point to me.

If you are going to go so far as to claim people are saying things that no one said, at least allow me the courtesy of explaining what the arguments you are making ultimately mean.

 

 

I meant that there were a hundreds of thousands of people who used to buy Sonic from SA to Black Knight. They couldn't die or suddenly begin hating SA era when Unleashed came out. There must be hundreds or at least tens of thousands of former Adventure fans. And where are they?

Where are they? Well, without further evidence, I would have to assume that many of them are still buying Sonic games. You've given no reason to explain that part either. Why are you even assuming that everyone who played Sonic titles in the first half of the last decade just packed up and left afterwards? Why are you assuming that, even if they didn't come back, that it was because they didn't like the Modern games rather than some other reason (such as them simply getting older and leaving the series for that reason, or hating the really bad games so much that they gave up)?

 

 

P.S. Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Colors, Sonic Generations and both Sonic 4 pieces were definitely targeted at Classic fans hence the prevalence of 2D, Solo-Sonica crap and shallow stories.

Sonic Generations? Absolutely. Sonic 4... maybe. They cared too little to say it was targeted so much as a cash in. Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Colors? You couldn't be more wrong, and your reasoning is superficial at best (since they all are more easily explained by the fact that they don't have to take as many risks doing them). Two completely different people from Sega said that Colors was targeted towards people who liked Unleashed, and Sonic 4 was targeted towards older players from the series' heyday (albeit they both said it in a profoundly stupid way).

Edited January 31, 2013 by Tornado

[Diogenes]

P.S. Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Colors, Sonic Generations and both Sonic 4 pieces were definitely targeted at Classic fans hence the prevalence of 2D, Solo-Sonica crap and shallow stories.

Huh, that's funny, I thought Sonics 2 and 3&K had multiple playable characters.

[Scar]

P.S. Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Colors, Sonic Generations and both Sonic 4 pieces were definitely targeted at Classic fans hence the prevalence of 2D, Solo-Sonica crap and shallow stories.

Yes, just as Shadow and 06 were targeted at 13 year olds who have little to no understanding of maturity or depth. Beyond that, I don't recall any Sonic Story every having that much depth in it. There was more to the stories, but that doesn't necessarily make them any deeper. Most of the time depth was an illusion created by speculation and reading into things that Sonic Team themselves likely weren't aware of, or even cared about.

[smogfog]

Why are you even assuming that everyone who played Sonic titles in the first half of the last decade just packed up and left afterwards?

It's not me. Looks like it's Sega who thinks that way. Or give me other reason why in Unleashed they suddenly switched overall style so much?

 

You're looking at one).

 

Ты не заметил мой ник?

 

Yes, just as Shadow and 06 were targeted at 13 year olds who have little to no understanding of maturity or depth.

I seriously doubt that. How could they figure out that Mephiles implies Mephiistopheles?

Edited January 31, 2013 by crystallize

[Pawn]

They were definitely deeper than what we have now, speculation or not. That doesn't take a lot of trying, though.

 

I seriously doubt that. How could they figure out that Mephiles implies Mephiistopheles?

 

Google search?

Edited January 31, 2013 by Pawn

[Diogenes]

I seriously doubt that. How could they figure out that Mephiles implies Mephiistopheles?

Why would they need to? Mephy's entire character is "I'm evil! look at how evil I am!"

[Emmett L. Brown]

Why would they need to? Mephy's entire character is "I'm evil! look at how evil I am!"

Mephiles the Dark.

 

I can't be the only one who burst out laughing when he introduced himself as such.

[Shrek]

I don't think Sega does that on purpose and I think The best option is to make a good story, something like SA2.

Did you forget how Sonic Adventure 2's story was rather shallow and full of plotholes? Because something tells me trying to replicate that isn't a great idea. I'll give it credit since the characterization was very good and easily the highlight of the game, though I'm sure that's not what you were referring to.

I will refer to the era conflict. Of course I was talking about the SA/SA2 years since Sega started to really care about the tone, the artistic direction and the story...

Are you implying that Sega didn't care for the art direction and story in the past? The original games are some of the most creative and intricately designed in the series, and Sonic 3's plot is still considered one of the best in the series despite the fact that there isn't even any dialogue to convey it.

3- Sonic X is bad

errr no it's not. actually it was a really amusing show but a fanboy's brain cannot conceive such a thing since it's not Sonic 2 so it's automatically bad.

 That's completely subjective, both Sonic fans and Anime fans consider it to be awful. It has horrible animation, abysmal voice acting, and a laughable plot with elements blatantly stolen from several other shows, and this doesn't just happen in the 4Kids version mind you. And I find it pretty interesting how you are using the "Fanboy" strawman argument when it seems to me you're a pretty hardcore fan of everything in the series made prior to 2005.

4- Sonic was too dark blablabla

err, when? SA2 is what you consider dark? You are a pretty much sensitive fellow in my opinion. When I think about dark I think about Spawn or Diablo. It's not because it's not baby-friendly that it's dark.

 SA2 wasn't a dark game, but it IS a dark Sonic game. The plot doesn't feel like it belongs in a Sonic game, and SA2 is really to blame for the horrid plots in future games like Shadow and 06.

2 fandoms, 2 visions. there's no way to get along, then Sega must follow some kind of cycle that periodically pleases Fandom A and Fandom B. As a proud member of Fandom B I think it's our turn to be pleased since it's been like 6 years that Fandom A is happy, that'd just be fair.

Yes, I'm sure Sega is ready to shell out the cash to cater to a miniscule coalition of people that only liked the Sonic Adventure games and don't care for anything made before them or after them. Edited January 31, 2013 by Shrek

[Pawn]

SA2 wasn't a dark game, but it IS a dark Sonic game. The plot doesn't feel like it belongs in a Sonic game, and SA2 is really to blame for the horrid plots in future games like Shadow and 06.

 

I really don't see how SA2 can be responsible for the aforementioned shitfests. For a start, games don't make games, people do. Shadow wasn't exactly a logical step on from SA2 either; the latter hardly paving the way for guns, alien invasion, a gritty world or a constantly serious atmosphere. As for '06, it takes its inspiration more from Adventure and Shadow than anything else, but the fact that it botches any previously used ideas is its own failure, not theirs.

Edited January 31, 2013 by Pawn

[Shrek]

I really don't see how SA2 can be responsible for the aforementioned shitfests. For a start, games don't make games, people do. Shadow wasn't exactly a logical step on from SA2 either; the latter hardly paving the way for guns, alien invasion, a gritty world or a constantly serious atmosphere. Meanwhile '06 takes its inspiration more from Adventure and Shadow than anything else.

Games certainly don't make games, but they can influence them. After the positive reception of SA2's darker story, I'm sure Sega took that into account when designing games like Shadow. Not in a positive way mind you, but I'm sure after Heroes got mixed reception they decided to revert back to a darker tone.

[Nicknine]

What are people even arguing about now? Someone's posted Johnny review, someone's said how bad Sonic '06 is (again?), someone's tried to defend it and now the discussion has gone into something almost unrelated to Sonic '06.

Johnny's review was really good, BTW. Very detailed and argumented, I expected a lot of groundless hate and rage, which are typical to any Sonic 2006 review.

Edited January 31, 2013 by Nik1895

[Pawn]

Games certainly don't make games, but they can influence them. After the positive reception of SA2's darker story, I'm sure Sega took that into account when designing games like Shadow. Not in a positive way mind you, but I'm sure after Heroes got mixed reception they decided to revert back to a darker tone.

 

Even if it did influence them, it's not its fault that they handled everything so badly. It would be like me saying that Unleashed is to blame for the over-abundance of 2D sections in later games. As for going for a darker tone, Shadow's game must have been the cards while Heroes was being made, as it helped set the game up. As far as I can see, Heroes and Shadow were more about making money by capitalising on nostalgia and the popularity of gritty games, rather than efforts to establish a new tone for the series.

 

Anyway yeah, this isn't about '06 anymore so I'll leave it at that.

[T-Min]

It's not me. Looks like it's Sega who thinks that way. Or give me other reason why in Unleashed they suddenly switched overall style so much?

Maybe because they wanted to reinvent the franchise to capture the quickly waning interest of the gaming populace?

 

I mean, come on now. Since 2008, we've had a steady stream of main series games that are on at least some level genuinely good and people are still wary of buying Sonic games. The damage Sonic 06 did is nearly irreparable - reinventing the gameplay formula was the least they could have done. If not for Unleashed, the oft-used phrase "Sonic is dead" might actually have had some truth to it.

 

They didn't make Unleashed to pander to new fans. They made it to bring old ones back.

Edited January 31, 2013 by Eh I'll Go With T-Man

[Chaos Smith]

Anyone else miss the enemy design from this game? Don't get me wrong I love my classic Badniks, but the more realistic robots were pretty sweet in my opinion.

[Diogenes]

No, they're all terrible.

[Chaos Smith]

No, they're all terrible.

Fair enough. What didn't you like about them?

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Fair enough. What didn't you like about them?

General consensus says that the mechs look REALLY generic side by side with the more stylized and relatively unique badniks. They look more like something GUN would use.

[Burnt Ash]

Considering the overall style Sonic 06 was going for, I'd say the mechs were at least consistent, but regardless, they're not particularly interesting, which I guess can also speak for the style 06 went for as well. Granted, I do agree with some points that I think CSS has made before regarding the looks of the robots though.

[Diogenes]

They're boring. What even is there? Vaguely Humanoid Thing, Different Colored Vaguely Humanoid Thing, The Thing From Robocop Plus Lasers, Vaguely Crablike Thing...? They're soulless, bland, generic. Pretty much anything else, be they classic badniks, Egg Pawns, or Unleashed's robots, has tons more character and personality.

[Komodin]

Anyone else miss the enemy design from this game? Don't get me wrong I love my classic Badniks, but the more realistic robots were pretty sweet in my opinion.

 

Personally, I don't. Compared to the enemy designs before and afterwards, they were rather unforgettable; heck, the only ones that I remember are the Egg Gunners and the expies of the Rhinotanks, Buzzbombers & GUN Hawks.

[Chaos Smith]

You all raise good points. I loved the Brotobugs though.

 

Edited February 6, 2013 by Chaos Smith

[Semi-colon e]

http://info.sonicretro.org/Egg_Cannon

 

I kind of liked these guys and their ilk for their shape, but the rest of them are just "whatever".

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Anyone else miss the enemy design from this game? Don't get me wrong I love my classic Badniks, but the more realistic robots were pretty sweet in my opinion.

Some yes, I particularly love the Egg Gunner models and the Egg Cerberus boss (the fight tho was just terrible).

 

Although Eggman really had no business with the ones that looked like GUN Hawks. Aside from that, I don't really care that much for the others.