Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[StaticMania]

34 minutes ago, Tarnish said:

I'll always find flying, gliding and wall climbing more interesting than whatever moves Blaze had...which I don't even remember, cuz that game was just so 'meh' for me. 

She could glide.

And had higher trick jumps than Sonic.

[Splash the Otter]

I think Sonic's speed should be depicted more as agility than as running fast.

[StaticMania]

2 minutes ago, Splash the Otter said:

I think Sonic's speed should be depicted more as agility than as running fast.

It is...
That's true for literally every speedster character to ever exist.

[Splash the Otter]

6 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

It is...

Boost gameplay begs to differ.

[StaticMania]

2 minutes ago, Splash the Otter said:

Boost gameplay begs to differ.

Not really.

But I assume you're referring to game-play...abilities.

[Splash the Otter]

2 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Not really.

But I assume you're referring to game-play...abilities.

I'm referring to the gameplay style as a whole. It depicts Sonic's speed as running fast more than anything else. The central mechanic is literally a "run fast" button.

[Muscles Maximum]

I think sonic having a human girlfriend in theory is not an awful idea. I see a lot of people hating on the Madonna idea of pre sonic 1 but I really don’t think it’s a big deal. 

Elise didn’t work because of how seriously 06 took itself and the nasty and soulless character models with terrible animation and expressions. 

But that classic rubber hose sonic with an equally cartoony human girlfriend look totally fine together. Not saying I want him to have a human girlfriend, just that I don’t think it’s inherently a sin like most people make it out to be. 

 

[Ivo-goji]

None of them are actually human but Lah, Shahra, and Merlina all had great chemistry with Sonic despite the species barrier.

[StaticMania]

5 minutes ago, Ivo-goji said:

...but Lah...had great chemistry with Sonic despite the species barrier.

No she didn't, she didn't even interact with him until the end.

And it's too short to be anything other than just a cute gag.

[Ivo-goji]

23 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

And it's too short to be anything other than just a cute gag.

If it succeeded in being cute I'd call that good chemistry.

[StaticMania]

1 minute ago, Ivo-goji said:

If it succeeded in being cute I'd call that good chemistry.

The only way it wouldn't be seen as cute is if she was annoying, but it'd be pretty hard to screw that up even if.

[Dr. Mechano]

4 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

The only way it wouldn't be seen as cute is if she was annoying, but it'd be pretty hard to screw that up even if.

Well, annoying or bland, and the latter was Elise's problem I'd say.

If Elise had the same overall role in the story, but was a more cartoony human with a more expressive personality and humorous quirks, I don't think she or her relationship with Sonic would've gone over nearly so poorly.

I think that's what Strong Guy and Ivo-goji were getting at. Lah is humanoid, at least, but she feels a lot more "right" alongside the Sonic animals than the super-realistic Elise did.

[StaticMania]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

If Elise had the same overall role in the story, but was a more cartoony human with a more expressive personality and humorous quirks, I don't think she or her relationship with Sonic would've gone over nearly so poorly.

Probably not, but I personally would prefer the writing improvement over the visual for Elise.

While the realism doesn't help, it's her lack of initiative and overall development that people really don't like.

And people probably wouldn't care regardless, if we're being totally honest here.

[Dr. Mechano]

3 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Probably not, but I personally would prefer the writing improvement over the visual for Elise.

While the realism doesn't help, it's her lack of initiative and overall development that people really don't like.

And people probably wouldn't care regardless, if we're being totally honest here.

Right, which is why I also mentioned a more expressive personality to go along with the design. She'd definitely need to be written differently to be likable. Sorry if that wasn't clear!

[MainJP]

21 hours ago, Dr. Mechano said:

Well, annoying or bland, and the latter was Elise's problem I'd say.

If Elise had the same overall role in the story, but was a more cartoony human with a more expressive personality and humorous quirks, I don't think she or her relationship with Sonic would've gone over nearly so poorly.

I think that's what Strong Guy and Ivo-goji were getting at. Lah is humanoid, at least, but she feels a lot more "right" alongside the Sonic animals than the super-realistic Elise did.

You know what? Elise looks less like a human and more like E.T.'s cousin. I'm not kidding, she's fucking hideous.

This right here:

Quote

but was a more cartoony human

This would help tremendously.  More specifically, it would be a lot better if Elise and the other humans were drawn like...Eggman, i.e. they should use the same design properties as Sonic and the gang. 

Like my example from the other day, Ohshima-san designed Eggman (and the scrapped girlfriend Madonna) with the proportions and design elements that are in line with 1930s rubber hose cartoons which matches Sonic and the gang. He even draws the humans from NiGHTS the same way:

And the way the humans look there matches Sonic and NiGHTS.

This carried over to Uekawa's art style who also draws all the characters with the same design philosophy. Rubber hose limbs, large hands and feet, brow ridge reminiscent of Sonic and Knuckles' etc.

Amazingly, this design style extends to Billy Hatcher; a game he also designed characters for.

They look like the anthro Sonic characters....but human. Y'know...kiiinda like Eggman?

Here's what I mean:

Round head. Rubber hose limbs. Large cartoony hands and feet. Stylized eyes with anime inspired irises.

Rolly Roll looks so much like a human version of Cream it's not even funny; the proportions are EXTREMELY similar.

Bantam resembles large characters like Big or Storm with his broader arms, short legs and beady eyes:

And of course there's Uekawa-san's human Sonic design which, again, is designed with the same style:

Drawloverlala actually designed an Uekawa styled Elise a while back and oh boy is it a massive improvement...

She looks like she...BELONGS in the series rather than something like Final Fantasy.

She matches the others EXTREMELY well.

If the human designs were more in-line with how Sonic is drawn I wouldn’t care about a potential relationship. That and they're both sentient people, so with better characterization and designs it really wouldn't matter.

[Dr. Mechano]

After over a decade since the Sonic X comics ended, the El Gran Gordo arc (#26-27, #31-32) is still my all-time favorite story in the entire Sonic franchise.

This four-part epic graces us with some of the best character development Dr. Eggman's ever had. It explores the duality between his villainous thirst for power and his desire to be a beloved hero to the masses. Eggman grows attached to his heroic alter-ego, and comes this close to reforming outright. It just goes to show what an awesome hero he could truly be if he ever did decide to use his brains and brawn for good instead of his own selfish goals.

We also get to see Eggman beat up a wrestler roughly twice his size (and that's saying something) with his bare hands, and then kick down his own fortress's laser turrets and body slam his own robots after a sugar-rushing Bokkun takes over his base. Without any mechs or weapons, Eggman still hits the reader with a veritable smorgasbord of raw manly power in this action-packed thrill ride.

Some Eggman fans don't care for this story, saying that it humanizes Eggman too much. That it makes him too likable, too sympathetic, or not evil/intimidating enough. That's fair, honestly. If you prefer your Robotniks rotten to the core, you won't find much to like about his short-lived heel-face turn. And I can respect that this story is contentious among the fanbase for that reason; It definitely takes Eggman out of his usual element.

I'm not here to dismiss the detractors. I understand where they're coming from. Eggman is, after all, the main villain of the Sonic series. Making him too human, as it were, risks undermining his effectiveness as an antagonist for some fans. If you soften his edges too much, some argue, he loses part of what makes him him. I understand that, and I think it's a valid reason to not really care for this arc.

But I love this story. To me, it's peak Eggman; a story that epitomizes everything I love about this character. It's Eggman at his absolute best, both in and out of universe, as it puts Eggman on the precipice of redemption, and shows off his brilliance and strength in delightfully funny and creative ways. After over ten years of other comics, cartoons, and games (many of which I've liked quite a bit), nothing else even comes close. El Gran Gordo is the still the reigning champ of Sonic storytelling.

[Celestia]

On 9/25/2019 at 9:36 AM, E-122-Psi said:

His decision to just start from scratch with new characters rather than bring her and the other Freedom Fighters into the IDW comics sounded pretty pragmatic instead of begrudged and heartbreaking decision.

It wasn't his decision, though I could have seen him deciding to hold off on introducing them at first. He's been pretty open about how he can't use the DiC characters, and last I heard he's still trying.

But yeah I agree she didn't really come across as a creator's pet in the comics generally, and I also agree Ian didn't seem to know what to do with her (though imo the reboot fixed that). But he seemed to like her just fine! There was even an infamous deleted Archie blog post where he went on about how great she is, which people used as evidence that he was biased in her favour...yeah, he really can't win either way.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

9 hours ago, Dr. Mechano said:

After over a decade since the Sonic X comics ended, the El Gran Gordo arc (#26-27, #31-32) is still my all-time favorite story in the entire Sonic franchise.

This four-part epic graces us with some of the best character development Dr. Eggman's ever had. It explores the duality between his villainous thirst for power and his desire to be a beloved hero to the masses. Eggman grows attached to his heroic alter-ego, and comes this close to reforming outright. It just goes to show what an awesome hero he could truly be if he ever did decide to use his brains and brawn for good instead of his own selfish goals.

We also get to see Eggman beat up a wrestler roughly twice his size (and that's saying something) with his bare hands, and then kick down his own fortress's laser turrets and body slam his own robots after a sugar-rushing Bokkun takes over his base. Without any mechs or weapons, Eggman still hits the reader with a veritable smorgasbord of raw manly power in this action-packed thrill ride.

Some Eggman fans don't care for this story, saying that it humanizes Eggman too much. That it makes him too likable, too sympathetic, or not evil/intimidating enough. That's fair, honestly. If you prefer your Robotniks rotten to the core, you won't find much to like about his short-lived heel-face turn. And I can respect that this story is contentious among the fanbase for that reason; It definitely takes Eggman out of his usual element.

I'm not here to dismiss the detractors. I understand where they're coming from. Eggman is, after all, the main villain of the Sonic series. Making him too human, as it were, risks undermining his effectiveness as an antagonist for some fans. If you soften his edges too much, some argue, he loses part of what makes him him. I understand that, and I think it's a valid reason to not really care for this arc.

But I love this story. To me, it's peak Eggman; a story that epitomizes everything I love about this character. It's Eggman at his absolute best, both in and out of universe, as it puts Eggman on the precipice of redemption, and shows off his brilliance and strength in delightfully funny and creative ways. After over ten years of other comics, cartoons, and games (many of which I've liked quite a bit), nothing else even comes close. El Gran Gordo is the still the reigning champ of Sonic storytelling.

If I may add my 2 cents to the “humanizing” factor.

I doubt humanizing, making him too likable, or sympathetic is a problem—Thanos went from overpowered God of doom in the comics to  just that in the MCU, and now he’s a massive icon as a result. He’s someone who, while in the wrong, has humanizing qualities that make him likable and sympathetic.

Hell, this is even done to the Joker in the well known Killing Joke story. And he’s downright rotten to the core.

But I think the key factor is that as sympathetic and humanized these characters can be, or hell as silly as they can be, they’re still dangerous people to be around. You can sympathize with a villain while understanding they need to be stopped in what they’re doing—tho the worst ones (morally speaking) actually subvert this and rather than them needing to be stopped, you wind up agreeing and maybe even siding with them.

Honestly, I like my villains above all to be threatening—whether you side with or against them, that’s the factor that seals them as villains. Without it...how effective are they really as an opposing force.

Not to say that there’s a problem with villains going out shopping or in this sense dressing up to fight in a wrestling match (I should also add that I’ve not read the issue, and as the Sonic X comic isn’t my cup of tea, might not do so anytime soon). We’ve seen the Joker do sillier, honestly.

But that threat factor is the main deal—it’s the main complaint people had for how Eggman was characterized with every Monster of the Week before they turned around and had him plan ahead and even conquer said monsters when we got sick of him being upstaged.

[Dr. Mechano]

A Sonic opinion I'm not sure whether I agree with or not: Does Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine count as a true "Robotnik game?" It's something I've always been conflicted about.

The case for:

• Robotnik gets top billing. His name's on the game, and his mustached mug adorns the title screen.
• He's the most prominent character in the game, by virtue of there being no named player character.

The case against:

• Robotnik isn't actually playable (outside of, arguably, a glitch that makes him "semi-playable" where you can prevent the CPU opponent from dropping beans by holding left or right on the second controller.)

So it's not quite the same caliber of character-centric spinoffs that Tails, Knuckles, and Shadow have received; all of which have featured them as the sole (or at least main) playable character in their solo outings.

As an Eggman fan, I'd like to consider MBM (both the 16 and 8 bit versions) to be starring roles for Robotnik; A sort of trophy for the Eggman fandom that we can hold aloft and say, "Look here! Our favorite character got his own game!" But at the same time, I'm not sure if it really counts? That's not a mark against it; I love the game (and the extended Puyo Puyo series in general) either way, but whether or not it counts as "starring Robotnik" has always kinda nagged at me.

Oh well, there is still Sonic Panel Puzzle, a game where Eggman is the sole playable character, which by every definition makes it a true unambiguous "Eggman game." ...buuut it was released for old Japanese mobile phones as part of the Sonic Cafe service, so I pretty much have no way of ever playing that one. Drat.

[Mountaindewandsprite]

I feel that Shadow's power should just be chaos manipulation. Having him be as fast as Sonic and strong as Knuckles makes him (look) OP. Also, Knuckles should just have his strength.

[DabigRG]

43 minutes ago, Mountaindewandsprite said:

I feel that Shadow's power should just be chaos manipulation. Having him be as fast as Sonic and strong as Knuckles makes him (look) OP. Also, Knuckles should just have his strength.

Most of Knuckles abilities span from his spurs, with gliding being a transition to climbing walls in addition to transversing Angel Island.

 

[MainJP]

14 hours ago, Mountaindewandsprite said:

I feel that Shadow's power should just be chaos manipulation. Having him be as fast as Sonic and strong as Knuckles makes him (look) OP. Also, Knuckles should just have his strength.

Shadow isn't as strong as knuckles, though. Throwing a bus does not make him as strong as a guy who induces volcanic eruptions just by striking the ground hard enough.

13 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Most of Knuckles abilities span from his spurs, with gliding being a transition to climbing walls in addition to transversing Angel Island.

 

They're probably talking about Knuckles' geokinesis. Thunder Arrow, Meteor Crush, those moves.

[Kuzu]

13 hours ago, Mountaindewandsprite said:

I feel that Shadow's power should just be chaos manipulation. Having him be as fast as Sonic and strong as Knuckles makes him (look) OP. Also, Knuckles should just have his strength.

The entire point of the character is to be "Dark Sonic", which kind of necessitates he be as fast as him. He's not as strong as Knuckles tho. Yes, he did stupid shit in his game, but his game was stupid and he's had no comparable feats since.

 

 

A Shadow related unpopular opinion; I've realized recently that looking back, Shadow's personality was actually very undefined, in the sense that outside of his big backstory, you never really get a sense of who he is without it. 

He's an extremely context-sensitive character, hence he tends to feel out of place when he's not in some big epic story related to his backstory. 

So I can kind of understand why they started exaggerating some of his personality traits so that he can be defined by an innate personality quirk and not some big backstory. 

 

Same deal with Knuckles too actually 

[thumbs13]

14 hours ago, Mountaindewandsprite said:

 Also, Knuckles should just have his strength.

If you take gliding and climbing away from Knuckles, isn't he just Storm?

[E-122-Psi]

3 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

The entire point of the character is to be "Dark Sonic", which kind of necessitates he be as fast as him. He's not as strong as Knuckles tho. Yes, he did stupid shit in his game, but his game was stupid and he's had no comparable feats since.

 

 

A Shadow related unpopular opinion; I've realized recently that looking back, Shadow's personality was actually very undefined, in the sense that outside of his big backstory, you never really get a sense of who he is without it. 

He's an extremely context-sensitive character, hence he tends to feel out of place when he's not in some big epic story related to his backstory. 

So I can kind of understand why they started exaggerating some of his personality traits so that he can be defined by an innate personality quirk and not some big backstory. 

 

Same deal with Knuckles too actually 

I think it adds to that earlier theory someone added onto my previous one, that Shadow is a character the writers actually aren't very invested in, but feel they NEED to keep him as main tier character. Likely same for Knuckles really. You think about it, their agency is often some of the poorest in later games, Knuckles is just a sidekick most of the time now, and Shadow usually just gets orders from GUN. They keep their base characteristics but they don't tend to play a lot into what goes on.

It actually sounds like this was EXACTLY the issue for Shadow in Sonic Boom. They even bemoaned that they had problems working him around the comedy. But Shadow is popular.

Being defined by character quirks isn't a bad thing if they are fleshed out enough (Mania shown comedic Knuckles can work just fine) but the writers have to care about giving it all an agency and depth. You can often tell which characters a writer doesn't really have a passion for positive or negative, because they don't 'get in the way' through any character driven plot. If they don't have a choice in the matter however, it can get rather awkward.