The biggest problem with Sonic games

[Diogenes]

= Well yeah, Spring Yard Zone is where Dr Eggman has taken over with his robots. I fail too see what is positive about this.

= Hydrocity is taken over by Eggman

Every stage has been "taken over by Eggman". Spring Yard is not Eggman's property or doing any more than GHZ is.

= Tails is an animal and is different to humans.

You're not looking at the games honestly, you've already made your conclusion and are warping the facts to fit it. You've dedicated yourself to the "animals good, humans bad" interpretation, and from there you conclude that Tails is exempt because he's an animal and animals are, by definition, good.

Eggman represents a message about humans. That's blindingly obvious.

Yes, the message is that we need to be careful about our actions, not that we are purely destructive.

The reason the Good Future is industrialised is because nature is adapting to something that has already happened in the present.

It's a goddamn time travel story, you erase Eggman's influence in the distant past. In the good futures, what Eggman did never happened.

Except it's true and virtually all professional critics agree.

Unless your opinion is somehow superior.

Appeal to authority. Prove this shit yourself or stop wasting my time. Edited October 28, 2012 by hella jeff

[BarleyFields]

It's a goddamn time travel story, you erase Eggman's influence in the distant past. In the good futures, what Eggman did never happened.

You only change the robots and Metal Sonic. You don't change Eggman's industry work.

[Celestia]

= Tails is an animal and is different to humans. He has a plane but it's small scale and isn't directly threatening the environment and, again, he isn't human.

So animals can use technology but humans can't? That's what I'm getting from what you're saying, at least.

Oh, and while Spring Yard could possibly have been built by Eggman, Hydrocity and it's technology (as well as signs of technology on the entire island, other than badniks) was likely around long before he was there.

[Kuzu]

I don't think you actually understand what you are saying

Let me break it down for you:

The point of Sonic CD's Good Futures is that the human interventionism has been removed so nature can take over the industry with no consequences.

You just said, if Humans don't get involved, nature is able to spread.

The Good Future is only possible because Sonic, moving with the wisdom of nature, topples the humans.

Then you say that Sonic(who you said represents Nature), is able to topple the humans(Who you said led to the bad future)

So......yeah, what is it about that you didn't understand?

[Jin.]

Instead of constantly saying "You don't understand what you're saying", "Unless your opinion is somehow superior" or "you clearly don't understand what's going on", come up with something valid to say. Seriously, you expect people to discuss, yet you blow them off everytime they say something against your opinion.

Edited October 28, 2012 by Jin Hakumen Kisaragi

[Balding Spider]

Eggman represents a message about humans. That's blindingly obvious.

So it's Eggman now eh?

Eggman is a genius greedy selfish manchild that had dreams of world domination because he has the resources and brains to do so. There is no message of humanity and greed, stop watching old Sonmaniac videos already.

[hangarninetysix]

Except it's true and virtually all professional critics agree.

Unless your opinion is somehow superior.

http://www.gameranki...og-2/index.html

http://www.gameranki...og-3/index.html

You were saying?

Edited October 28, 2012 by hangarninetysix

[BarleyFields]

Let me break it down for you:

You just said, if Humans don't get involved, nature is able to spread.

Then you say that Sonic(who you said represents Nature), is able to topple the humans(Who you said led to the bad future)

So......yeah, what is it about that you didn't understand?

I thnk you are beyond hope if you can't even grasp this small point.

Let's just end this mini conversation!

[Diogenes]

You only change the robots and Metal Sonic. You don't change Eggman's industry work.

Now you're muddling your own message. Human influence is purely destructive, but only when it's robots and not when it's buildings, because nature loves buildings, apparently, and will use them to create a utopia.

[BarleyFields]

http://www.gameranki...og-2/index.html

http://www.gameranki...og-3/index.html

You were saying?

This is for the Genesis games at the time of their release. The reviews are outdated.

Look at contemporary reviews.

Now you're muddling your own message. Human influence is purely destructive, but only when it's robots and not when it's buildings, because nature loves buildings, apparently, and will use them to create a utopia.

No. Nature adapts around the humans because it has to not because it wants to. It's not a bad thing that it has to adapt it just does.

[...]

This is for the Genesis games at the time of their release. The reviews are outdated.

Look at contemporary reviews.

No. Nature adapts around the humans because it has to not because it wants to. It's not a bad thing that it has to adapt it just does.

>the genesis games still get critical acclaim to this day

Edited October 28, 2012 by Rayman

[Kuzu]

I thnk you are beyond hope if you can't even grasp this small point.

I think your point is pretty weak if you're not even going to bother arguing it.

[BarleyFields]

>the genesis games still get critical acclaim to this day

Of course they do. Sonic 2 simply fares better.

[Jack / Joker]

How did this go from criticism to flat-out fanon?

[BarleyFields]

How did this go from criticism to flat-out fanon?

Because people do not understand simple concepts and need it spelt out across multiple pages.

[JezMM]

Remember when you first joined BarleyFields and we warned you about how your opinions seemed to match those of idiotic reviewers who only consider the surface of Sonic games and don't really understand what the Sonic series is about at its depth?

You're doing it again.

Edited October 28, 2012 by JezMM

[batson]

I just want to point out that if your going to argue that the classic Sonic games cant have a simple "technology vs nature" theme due to the sheer fact that even the good guys make use of technology and that they use it for good, then this means that practically no piece of popular fiction have a "technology vs nature"-theme.

SatAM for instance also showed the good guys making good use of technology. And yet i often see the very same people who claim that the classic Sonic games had some sort of more complex message often accuse SatAM of promoting a simple "nature is good and technology is bad" message. But like i said, if we should really consider that any piece of fiction that ever shows any technology being used for good as being "more complex than that" then hey, i guess SatAM is as morally complex and intelligent as the classic Sonic games supposedly are. And so is Captain Planet for that matter.

In case you cant tell, the point im trying to make is that the "if we ever see technology being used for good in the series/show/game/whatever then it cant have a "technology is bad"-message" is really, really silly.

The fact is this; the classic Sonic games (just like SatAM and just like Captain Planet) were most likely intended to have this very simple message; what humanity with the aid of technology is doing to nature is BAD. That's it. There was likely never intended to be any complexity or shades of gray on the issue, regardless of what us fans can claim should "logically" have been the message considering the varied use of technology that we see in games.

Edited October 28, 2012 by batson

[Jin.]

Because people do not understand simple concepts and need it spelt out across multiple pages.

...He means you.

[batson]

Sorry, made this post by mistake. Move along now.

Edited October 28, 2012 by batson

[BarleyFields]

Remember when you first joined BarleyFields and we warned you about how your opinions seemed to match those of idiotic reviewers who only consider the surface of Sonic games and don't really understand what the Sonic series is about at its depth?

You're doing it again.

'Idiotic reviewers'. You mean the people who game companies consider during production?

Hmm...

[Jack / Joker]

Because people do not understand simple concepts and need it spelt out across multiple pages.

Your concepts. Not SEGA's. People don't understand your strange view of the series because we all usually agree on, you know, actual facts.

Edited October 28, 2012 by -The Joker-

[BarleyFields]

I'm going to end the thread here because it seems everyone on here doesn't understand what I'm saying. I will make a much easier to understand thread next time.

Thanks everyone for trying.

Permission to Lock Thread.

THREAD ENDED

[Badnik Mechanic]

You don't have to agree with it. I don't. But it was obviously the message of the games.

You don't have to agree with me. But it would have been nice to get a reply based on something I actually said...

Oh and... there were humans other than Eggman in Sonic 1. Unless of course Eggman is the only person who lives in that city in the Spring Yard Zone.

[Jin.]

I'm going to end the thread here because it seems everyone on here doesn't understand what I'm saying. I will make a much easier to understand thread next time.

Thanks everyone for trying.

Permission to Lock Thread.

THREAD ENDED

Lmao, this is rich.

If you're planning to discuss something, try actually "discussing" it.

[Rusty Spy]

Well yeah, Spring Yard Zone is where Dr Eggman has taken over with his robots. I fail too see what is positive about this.

Then why does it look perfectly fine? Why are there trees and mountains in the background? Why do you unlock the same capsule that releases all the animals that live in that area? Why is this area (and just now remembering Starlight Zone) both completely peaceful areas that show no harmful or hazardous effects on the enviorment compared to Scrap Brain? Eggman's supposed to be evil right? So why are these places relatively harmless in comparison?

Tails is an animal and is different to humans. He has a plane but it's small scale and isn't directly threatening the environment and, again, he isn't human.

That's bullshit. For one, remember that the Tornado was originally SONIC'S plane. And in other claims you suggest that animals wouldn't use technology in any form (you claiming that the technology in the Good Futures is just a consequence of humans that the animals have to deal with).

Hydrocity is taken over by Eggman and Sky Sanctuary is way up in the sky. It's mysterious and doesn't affect any of the nature around it.

That's completely false. Hydrocity shows many signs of ancient civilization (and this) which resided on the island, similar to those seen in Hidden Palace, ANOTHER artificial structure created by non-humans. And your excuse for Sky Sanctuary is just grasping at straws. Technology is technology, doesn't matter who made it, it's what you do with it.

No. Nature adapts around the humans because it has to not because it wants to. It's not a bad thing that it has to adapt it just does.

And whats stopping them from demolishing these structures?

I'm going to end the thread here because it seems everyone on here doesn't understand what I'm saying. I will make a much easier to understand thread next time.

Thanks everyone for trying.

Permission to Lock Thread.

THREAD ENDED

All this screams to me is "LALALA I'M NOT LISTENING LALALALALALA"

You can't just bring up these statements and not expect people to argue them. If you want people to accept your ideas you have to support them, not just throw it in our faces and call us blind if we don't instantly accept them with no solid evidence backing them up.

Edited October 28, 2012 by Rusty Spy