Zelda Topic

[Doctor MK]

I swear, I think I'm one of the only people who is really not bothered about a Majora's Mask remake. We've already had two Zelda remakes in the last couple of years alone, and fair enough, I suppose it'd only be fair for them to remake the most hotly requested game in the series, and yes I know it would be outsourced to someone like Grezzo rather than being made by Nintendo themselves, but... I dunno, the idea of it just doesn't grab me as much as it probably should. Don't get me wrong, I'd totally eat up a Majora's Mask 3D, but at the same time I'd be even more excited for something new. We've just had A Link Between Worlds which was masterful and Hyrule Warriors is looking great for a spin-off title too. I'd rather look ahead to the future of the series than dwell too much on past glories.

 

Though having said that, it'll probably be a year or two now until Zelda Wii U, and we have just had ALBW to fill the original title quota... oh, go on then, give us a Majora's Mask 3D and be done with.

 

Or, stick it on Wii U in HD, and all the desperate fans will flock over to that system to play it instead, thus saving Nintendo from financial doom forever. Or something like that

[VO.SUPER]

With the current situation the Wii U's been in, it's a wonder if this will be an HD update, or another 3DS update. OOT 3D was made during a time when the 3DS needed something to grab a lot of attention, they could use an MM HD as a Wii U update.

 

I think this may be the case, considering the time spent waiting for this. The questions of an MM remake began almost immediately after OOT 3D was out, and Aonuma stated he wanted the 3DS to have an original Zelda out before working on something like that. Well, A Link Between Worlds is out, and Zelda U is probably in a more advanced state of development. So I would have to guess that development on this inevitable project started once the biggest challenges of ALBW were ironed out. 

 

Now I'm no developer, but if I had to guess from ALBW's 3 year development time, since development had started in 2011, the biggest gripes were probably finished up just before the Nintendo direct in April 2013, giving Aonuma the time to focus on any Majora's Mask project that may come.

 

So that gives us a rough 9 month period for development on anything of the sort. Now, from what I interpret from the OOT 3D "Iwata Asks": pre-production for that may have began in February 2010 with initial development kits being sent out to Grezzo and their staff¹. The game was released in June, but I assume the final product was finished in April, a whole 2 months before it was released, giving the game 14 months of development. 

 

Since Majora reuses many assets from OOT, it was able to shave OOT's 4 year development to 18 months. I would assume an MM remake, using the assets, and with the experienced development from OOT3D, would be able to shave 3 months of development, bringing down the time of development to 11 months should it be on the 3DS (not acknowledging any added features at the moment, such as a Master Quest). That means, if this title is going to be on the 3DS, we should be hearing something about it within February or March. If not, then I make the broad assumption that the title has been ported over to Wii U development. 

 

Keep in mind, these are just assumptions.

 

1Rumors were flying around that time, about 3DS dev kits being sent to Japanese developers.

[Blue Blood]

In the past few years we've had OoT3D (remake), WWHD (port, barely changed) and ALBW (remix sequel). MMHD/3D now would just be way too much. A sequel or prequel to MM that either takes place in Termina or somehow involves key elements like the Skull Kid and Majora would be amazing, but please no more recycled content for the time being. Save it for a rainy day.

[Sami]

I'm holding off on playing what I'm 99% sure will be my favorite Zelda game ever by an enormous margin because I want the best, most modern experience when I finally get to play it. I'm glad I did with OoT3D.

 

So with that said I'd take it over a new one. I really don't care I just want Majora's Mask in widescreen and without distracting and dated visuals.

[Marcello]

Another MM reference was found in A Link Between Worlds!
 

Okay so...

Get all 100 Maimais and then talk to Ravio. Then go talk to the Mama Maimai. She'll say it's time to go back to "their dimension" when you leave the cave you'll see a big flash from the cave. Reenter and you'll see a baby maimai that was left to become the next mama Maimai. Talk to her and she'll say "I'm the 72nd maimai you found." 72nd. 72 hours remain. NINTENDO!

 

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=98167940&postcount=240

 

I went and checked and here's the dialogue:

 

Mother Maiamai

 

"You came just in time!"

"It's a bit sudden, but we must bid you good-bye. I'm off to a different dimension with my Maiamais!"

"Oh! But Mother Maiamai doesn't even know your name!"

"Ah...Link."

"What a nice name. There's nothing more I could do to make it nicer, oh, good friend of mine."

"My darling tykes owe you their lives. May we see you again, by and by."

Talk again:

"Good-bye! Good-bye! And thank you, Link!"

 
Leave the room and you see an orange flash from the cave. Going back in reveals one last Maiamai.

Maiamai
 

"Hello there, Link!"

"I'm the 72nd Maiamai you saved! Thanks for all your help."

"Mom and the others have gone off. But I-? Well, I stayed behind. Time for  me to be my own Maiamai."

Talk again:

"Hopefully I'll learn to be as good of a mother as my Mother Maiamai. Wish me luck, Link!"

 
 
I didn't see the Ravio dialogue. I just got his typical responses once you have everything.

[Salamander]

I remember seeing that, but only after reading about it on the Internet.  As I recall it, to get the Maimais to leave once you've got all of them, you have to leave after returning the hundredth and then go back in again, even though at that point you think you've completed the sidequest and have nothing more to do there.  That's probably why most people don't see this - you basically have to finish the sidequest and then go back anyway.

[Detective Shadzter]

A supposed leaked screenshot of the new Zelda game on Wii U:

http://www.dashgamer.com/2014/05/legend-of-zelda-wii-u-leaked-screenshot.html#.U3YyX9JdVl8

[Sami]

> dark room

> shitty camera phone

> tilted camera angle

Looks legit

[JaidynReiman]

This looks cool, but I'll reserve judgments until we get official confirmation. This style wouldn't surprise me whatsoever, though.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Dark Zelda Souls 2.

[Solly]

Whoever did this probably just took existing models and put them into Garry's Mod or SFM, or some other program.

[Chili Dawg]

Nintendo games don't get leaked... just doesn't happen., least not screens or videos.

 

So yeah, phony.

[Blitz 'n Burst]

Nintendo games don't get leaked... just doesn't happen., least not screens or videos.

 

So yeah, phony.

Pokémon X and Y say hi

[Chili Dawg]

Pokemans can be weird like that.

 

But generally Nintender's games remain super secret, and if anything does spill out it's at the very last second. 

[Diogenes]

Looks dull. At least it's almost certainly fake.

Whatever the next Zelda ends up being, I hope it doesn't try to look super realistic. I've always preferred the more stylized games.

[Blitz 'n Burst]

Some people are actually believing this? That is literally a cut-out from the Wii U tech demo back at E3 pasted onto a forest with a fuckton of bloom added to cover it up.

[JayRaR]

Whatever the next Zelda ends up being, I hope it doesn't try to look super realistic. I've always preferred the more stylized games.

 

I sort of won't mind if Zelda took the super realistic route, but I really hope the next game won't have visuals like Skyward Sword. If anything, just tone down the brightness and I'll be ok with it I guess.

 

If anything, I want Link to be a child again in the next game. I'm not saying playing an adult is not the way to go but I feel the sense of wonder and naiveté is lost if playing as an adult.

[Tatters]

The lack appearance of the Wii U tablet seems suspicious. I say it's phony plus it looks like someone just took the picture from their own room.

[Wraith]

Zelda can have an element of realism to it, but I think the style should always be something striking and expressive with a decent amount of color. This isn't Shadow of the Colossus or Dark Souls or whatever. This world is a fantasy and it's alive. Make it look like it, y'know? Like...

 

 

 

Like that. 

 

Yeah....yeah.

[Soniman]

Zelda can have an element of realism to it, but I think the style should always be something striking and expressive with a decent amount of color. This isn't Shadow of the Colossus or Dark Souls or whatever. This world is a fantasy and it's alive. Make it look like it, y'know? Like...

 

 

 

Like that. 

 

Yeah....yeah.

 

Pretty much, colorful and bright reaism would be nice, I felt the N64 games struck a good chord with this, not going to drastic in one way or the other. Another game like that would be great.

[azoo]

I want a game that looks just like that. Ocarina of Time 3D got the art style down pat. Just give me that with extremely heavy amounts of detail and 60fps and you got Azoo's attention. 

 

Also I'm gonna be honest, Nintendo: I really don't want a remake of Majora's Mask right now. We've got two remakes / ports and a sequel game already. Just let it go for now, as much as I loved MM.

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

I kinda want a Zelda that makes actual use of the chiaroscuro lighting Majora's art did.

 

 

It very much brings to mind some sort of Grimm fairytale, and it just bleeds intrigue. It's really something I'd love to see in HD, and to me it strikes a nice compromise between realism and style. Plus the style's noir heritage makes Soma tingle like a wee schoolgirl.

[SuperLink]

I'd love a Zelda with the impeccable style of Majora's Mask again someday, but I kinda doubt Nintendo can or will want to pull something like that off right now.

 

Speaking of MM though, I don't think an MM remake would really have a negative effect on anything per se? They'd probably get Grezzo to do it so it wouldn't exactly be a "waste", and more strong 3DS support when Nintendo really need it can't be a bad thing.

[azoo]

It's just that it'd be a lot of Zelda at one time. Within almost a year and a half's worth of time we've had Wind Waker HD, A Link Between Worlds, the announcement of Hyrule Warriors and the upcoming hype for Zelda U. 

 

I just don't want them to wear Zelda out.

[Sami]

I've grown rather tired of the lighthearted, cartoony stuff over the years. I do appreciate and really enjoy Wind Waker for being a lighthearted but mature and focused story, but I don't really have an "itch" for it right now. I want detail and realism, fully utilized to the benefit of a broader cohesive art style. Preferably dark in tone, as that's a preference I have for fantasy.
 
Realism isn't any more generic than outlandish cartoony art - rather, a game that does nothing to utilize its art properly is doomed to be generic. Twilight Princess failed where games like Majora's Mask, Metroid, and Dark Souls succeeded because despite it using a darker, more realistic style... it did nothing with it. We still had bizarre and cartoony NPCs (many of which just looked horrifically ugly imo), the tone of the plot was hardly affected because you never saw any reason to believe this Hyrule suffered any more plight than the others we've seen, and the people you interact with on your journey don't act any differently from the NPCs in a lighthearted game like Wind Waker. In fact, when Ganon traps Hyrule Castle in a giant yellow triangle in Twilight Princess... none of the people in Castle Town seem to care...
 
Ocarina of Time looked realistic and mildly serious because it was telling a serious story, set in a bright fantasy world. The picture Wraith posted above is of significance because it's what the player is trying to protect. It's gorgeous and full of life, and serves as a stark contrast to some of the darker shit you're trying to prevent. Ocarina wasn't all rainbows and sunshine from start to finish, and that's why it works so well. The art is used with purpose:
 
 

 

 
 
Majora's Mask was, as far as I'm aware, much the same. It's a game with much darker subject matter, and as such has a much darker style to reflect this. The game's full of creepy, unsettling imagery because it's meant to make the player uncomfortable, and reflects the suffering of Termina. Again, the art has purpose:
 
 

 

 
 
Switch to a different series entirely - Souls. This franchise is one that's very commonly praised for its art, after all. 
 
 

 
 
The worlds of Souls are effective for, again, the reasons listed above. You're travelling a world that is already long dead, and ravaged by demons. You're fighting not to keep the status quo or prevent any catastrophe, but merely to end the suffering the world was going through. The art is bleak and grim because the game itself is bleak and grim. 
 
The most important thing about the art style isn't the color palette that it uses or the amount of detail in each texture, but rather how effectively it is used to create a fulfilling experience. It's easy to just pick a style and roll with it, but a game that is truly mature in how it presents itself does so with a very powerful and defined purpose. Wind Waker, both N64 Zeldas, Souls, Metroid, ICO, and The Last of Us are all games that, off the top of my head, do this exceptionally well.
 
With that all being said, the real root of the issue with Twilight Princess is the circumstances surrounding its development. It's a game that was made to fulfill fan expectations, and nothing more. Fans wanted something "dark", and that's what they got. They wanted a game like Ocarina of Time, and that's what they got. Twilight Princess has no purpose, and it's a much worse product for it. It's dark for the sake of being dark, realistic for the sake of realism, and so on and so forth. It's too bad, because some of the art really appeals to me. 
 
I'd argue that Skyward Sword also falls victim to this, though to less of an extent. It can be pretty to look at at times, but it's hard to shake the feeling that they simply went for that style because it was a middle ground between the last two games. It's clear they were trying to play up the Imprisoned as this big, evil, scary monster for example, and it kind of fell flat when you noticed you were whacking its Sesame Street toes. It's not quite as fully realized a style as Wind Waker, which used its visuals to symbolize one of the major themes of the plot - a departure from the past and a venture into a bold and bright new world. Hyrule is dead and trapped in time, and as such is masked in a monochrome filter every time you see it. The world above is bright and colorful, because it's full of life and new discoveries. Skyward Sword doesn't really play with any of these ideas, and while it does at least feel more true to itself than Twilight Princess did, I never thought the art was very well utilized. I suppose it's possible I'm just forgetting something about it though.
 
Realism with a muted color palette can be striking in its own way too, and it's a style I'd personally like to see Zelda tackle that again. Just... properly next time.
 

 

 

 
 
I don't want Zelda to go in a direction in which everything is grim and dead like in Souls, but that kind of dark tone could be utilized in other ways, and I think it'd work really well.
 
Anyway, I'm droning on now. The most important part, to me, isn't that the series fits any certain color palette. I just want it to use its style well and with purpose.