Zelda Topic

[Sami]

Skyward Swords' shortcomings are explained pretty much perfectly in this video - 

 

 

I like the rest of his Zelda videos too.

[Kuzu]

Ugh, 50 minutes, that's even more than Ego tearing into it.

 

 

So I never finished Skyward Sword, so can someone just kindly give me a small succinct on why is it so damn divisive before I watch this video.

[Conando]

It changed everything, no really, it changed everything. Sure it's still a 3D Zelda game, but everything from combat to progression was completely different from previous games in the series. It would be more apt to compare Skyward Sword to a Metroid game rather than a Zelda one due to the differences.

[Diogenes]

Are the differences between Zelda and Metroid all that big to begin with?

[Conando]

In terms of how you actually got from A to B? Yes. Skyward Sword was an attempt to turn the field into an obstacle course of its own, rather than just a relatively straight shot from point A to point B. Basically the whole thing was one big super dungeon.

[Kuzu]

Well I don't really think change is that bad, but I'm assuming there were some questionable design choices.

[Conando]

That was really it. In an attempt to do away with the busy work of traveling across Hyrule Field, they made the overworld into a super dungeon. What that did was just create a different kind of busy work depending on who you ask.

[Gabz Girl]

Meh, I don't care at all about Egoraptor's views in that video and I'm sticking to my opinion that OoT is still a good game to this day despite it being slightly dated (can't comment on ALTTP since I never played it). His arguments against knock back damage and waiting for a door to open are especially ridiculous and I don't know whether he's joking or being serious in that matter. I mean come on, is that really that bad? Not to mention you don't always go flying back when you're hit and those pauses when you hit a switch is to let you know what the switch or whatever just did! It's been like that in every 3D Zelda game since. As for the treasure chest thing...seriously?

[Sami]

I actually kind of agree with the treasure chest thing. I didn't have a problem with it in Ocarina of Time, but I do think it's unnecessary. Skyward Sword, if I remember correctly, had a room with like five chests in it though. Jesus that was tedious.

[Conando]

I should add that it's not like LttP doesn't have goofy animations that take control out of your hands, like going down stairs and entering certain rooms causes the game to pause.

[Candescence]

Skyward Sword had its issues, but its motion controls and combat weren't among them. The former was near-flawless, and while the latter did rely a good deal on striking in a certain direction to bypass an enemy's defense, but there were also quite a few amazing fights in that game, too. His hate-boner for SS was extremely cringeworthy, because it really was a great game.

 

I'm somewhat mixed on this episode, he has some good points, but there are others that seem either exaggerated or could be countered with examples from LttP. It's certainly not as good as his earlier episodes.

[lounge]

A lot of what egoraptor said I don't agree with. LttP just frustrates me with its combat. Links has a small range of motion and distance when swinging his sword. This always annoyed me especially with a room full of enemies coming at me. That and attacking enemies just didn't feel satisfying. I also didn't like the overworld design.

Also sad to see Skyward Sword hate. I had a superb experience with that game, but obviously he likes sandbox style. But I didn't even find it linear. Personally I like a sense of direction in where I'm going, but that's just preference.

[Kuzu]

It feels classic Sonic games vs. Modern Sonic games lol.

[VO.SUPER]

Remember him? 

 

His fight was the best in Skyward Sword, and I wish more of the boss battles were like that in that game. His fight takes advantage of spacing and was controlled a lot by you and how well you could outsmart him. Instead, most of the other boss fights relied too much on, "use dungeon item > hit with sword a few times" I mean, the first boss wasn't that bad, but Captain Scervo was one of the best examples of Skyward Sword's combat.

[Conando]

Scervo was so great that they had to give him an encore in the dungeon where you got the Triforce. Ghirahim was pretty much in the same class as him. I believe Tentalus (or whatever its name was) was the biggest offender with the old timey use the dungeon item to open the weak spot type of thing.

[Diogenes]

Honestly I didn't think robopirate was all that good. I had more fun fighting Darknuts in Wind Waker...

[VO.SUPER]

Scervo was so great that they had to give him an encore in the dungeon where you got the Triforce. Ghirahim was pretty much in the same class as him. I believe Tentalus (or whatever its name was) was the biggest offender with the old timey use the dungeon item to open the weak spot type of thing.

 

I was honestly hoping to have an encore swordfight for the final battle on the sandship with a storm going on, ala Pirates of the Carribean 3. You know, it was a very missed opportunity that Skyward Sword didn't have a fight like that.

[Marcello]

Skyward Sword had its issues, but its motion controls and combat weren't among them. The former was near-flawless, and while the latter did rely a good deal on striking in a certain direction to bypass an enemy's defense, but there were also quite a few amazing fights in that game, too.

I don't agree.

 

On the motion controls: Besides the sword and shield ( Which I also had some problems with), pretty much all of the motion stuff was tacked on and not very fun. I don't think they made flying and swimming use motion controls, because they thought it was an improvement over analogue. Putting the boss key in the door was also simply an annoyance. For aiming you'd often have to recalibrate the Wii Remote, which wasn't a huge deal, though. I'll say flapping your Skyloft's wings with the Wii Remote felt intuitive.

 

Combat: There were some pretty fun fights, but for the most it was just looking at where the opening was and striking there, which wasn't really fun. I prefer the simpler combat from previous 3D games.

 

Remember him? 

 

His fight was the best in Skyward Sword, and I wish more of the boss battles were like that in that game. His fight takes advantage of spacing and was controlled a lot by you and how well you could outsmart him. Instead, most of the other boss fights relied too much on, "use dungeon item > hit with sword a few times" I mean, the first boss wasn't that bad, but Captain Scervo was one of the best examples of Skyward Sword's combat.

 

He was OK. In the end all you had to do was stab and shield bash.

 

 

Scervo was so great that they had to give him an encore in the dungeon where you got the Triforce. Ghirahim was pretty much in the same class as him. I believe Tentalus (or whatever its name was) was the biggest offender with the old timey use the dungeon item to open the weak spot type of thing.

 

Oh, I don't know. A lot of the Tentalus fight used the Skyward Strike to chop away her tentacles. You only had to use the bow to knock her down, so you could attack her with your sword. There were bosses that focused more on the dungeon item like Koloktos. Not that it bothers me. I like that pattern.

[JezMM]

Skyward Swords' shortcomings are explained pretty much perfectly in this video - 

 

 

I like the rest of his Zelda videos too.

 

Just wanted to say this was a genuinely good watch and highlights everything I disliked about Skyward Sword PERFECTLY.  This was 45 minutes very well spent, I might watch some more.

 

God bless you Irishmen and your soothing voices.

[VO.SUPER]

Honestly, I think part of the reasons the motion control could be wonky was because of the Wii's own limitations as a system. Honestly, if the combat was done on the Wii U, the combat fluidity would have been the best. Nintendoland honestly had a better 1:1 combat in the Zelda minigame if you ask me and I would've liked for that 1:1 sword combat to be more like that. 

[Sami]

Honestly, I think part of the reasons the motion control could be wonky was because of the Wii's own limitations as a system. Honestly, if the combat was done on the Wii U, the combat fluidity would have been the best. Nintendoland honestly had a better 1:1 combat in the Zelda minigame if you ask me and I would've liked for that 1:1 sword combat to be more like that. 

 

The Wii had similar 1:1 combat in Wii Sports Resort already - it's not a hardware thing. I'd imagine having completely 1:1 motion controls as the primary method of attack would have been harder to program or something, which is why we've never actually seen it done outside of minigames.

[VO.SUPER]

The Wii had similar 1:1 combat in Wii Sports Resort already - it's not a hardware thing. I'd imagine having completely 1:1 motion controls as the primary method of attack would have been harder to program or something, which is why we've never actually seen it done outside of minigames.

 

Nevertheless, we've had an example of some of the best swordplay that can be done on the system, which I honestly hope would be improved upon in the future. Just because of a few issues in one game doesn't mean I don't see merit in improving the idea when it has been done to nigh perfection.

 

(Best we not argue further, I know your stance and it'd be pointless back and forth.)

 

Edit: I just saw the video, and I really do agree with the man on many points. The thing that really differentiates me and him, is that those issues weren't as big to me as they were him. The Zelda series changes in a multitude of ways, and I could respect Skyward Sword's direction at many points, and the fact I could have fun with what it gave me proves it's worth. I appreciated the ideas it was trying to bring to the table and all those failings he listed, never stood out to me as that offensive that they could ruin my experience. I may not want another game like Skyward Sword, but I appreciate the elements it brings to the Zelda table that could be refined upon in the future.

[Gabz Girl]

I don't know why most people had problems with the controls? o_o I had no trouble whatsoever, in fact I thought they worked quite well and it was fun fighting enemies by being more tactical instead of the usual slashing and hitting stuff. It was different...I liked it...

 

I actually remember when someone on Youtube made a video in response to that horrible Gamespot review, showing that the controls worked just fine even though Tom McShit (sorry) moaned about how unresponsive it was and his motion sensor bar wasn't working. PPPPFFFF.

 

[JezMM]

Yeah, one of the big points that 45 minute video Discoid posted that I just praised is about the motion controls.  Watch 2:42 -> 5:56.

 

Though the too long; didn't watch version of it is that he says the controls work 95% of the time... which is completely unacceptable for something you use all the way through the game.

[VO.SUPER]

Yeah, one of the big points that 45 minute video Discoid posted that I just praised is about the motion controls.  Watch 2:42 -> 5:56.

 

Though the too long; didn't watch version of it is that he says the controls work 95% of the time... which is completely unacceptable for something you use all the way through the game.

 

Unacceptable when using a well used control scheme, but Aonuma had been making Skyward Sword for five years, that's starting from the beginning of the Wii's life cycle when the technology was especially faulty. This was in tandem with Spirit Tracks and Phantom Hourglass so you can see this game must have been evolving with the technology at the time while struggling with other projects being done. 

But I see your point on why you don't like motion controls. However, I don't see your point on why they shouldn't come back. When the D-pad was a new thing and games back then had their own clumsiness, designers still made good games out of it and continued to improve. Even the guy in the video admitted that Skyward Sword wasn't a bad game, and even if he says he doesn't want 1:1 controls because he had a less than perfect performance than most people had, it doesn't change the fact that people saw potential and liked it too. If there is a large liking for a concept, then continuing it isn't an invalid decision.