Zelda Topic

[Patticus]

They pretty much outright said he was completely gone and that the Master Sword was going to sleep forever at the end of Link to the Past.

 

Clearly the Triforce doesn't know shit.

 

New timeline confirmed?

[Indigo Rush]

So, a Zelda game actually starring Princess Zelda.

 

should probably ditch the dress, that'd be a pain to go adventuring in

 

 

I think it would be a fantastic idea to work from. It would be a great change of pace to switch roles for the Zelda series. Many other people would agree, but how would one go about doing it? How on earth can we make that work?

 

First, there must be some grounding as to why the Hero of Time isn’t around. I’m thinking that in terms of story placement, this supposed Princess Zelda game should take place between Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker, where the hero from Ocarina of Time never appeared. Canonically, the story goes that the people tried to rise against a revived Ganondorf and failed, leaving them to instead call out to the goddesses to rescue them from his reign, thus leading to the flooding of Hyrule and sealing of Ganondorf and his minions deep beneath the newly created Great Sea.

 

Here’s where we could add some detail and maybe change a couple of things. The Great Flood, Link’s absence and the final role of the goddesses are absolutely vital, so these elements should play a part. However, there isn’t any reason to assume that there isn’t room for an epic quest during this time period. Someone needs to awaken the goddesses, someone needs to gather the civilians to take them to higher ground, and someone needs to put Ganondorf at bay.

 

Enter: Princess Zelda. This could be the same Zelda as OoT, but for the sake of preventing possible plotholes, let’s say that this is a new incarnation of Zelda, a few generations down the line, but not so far ahead that the citizens of Hyrule forget the green hero who saved them from Ganon last time.

 

Synopsis: The King of Hyrule raises an army and leads the battlefield against the risen Ganondorf. He fails and is killed in battle, leaving a young Princess Zelda without a father. She narrowly escapes with the help of Impa (a callback to Ocarina of Time) and is taught the ways of the Sheikah, as well as picking up some sweet swordplay techniques. Much like the Zelda before her, she can now use powerful magic to transform into Sheik. Finally, she is somehow called into awakening the goddesses by collecting some sacred objects (Nintendo could come up with literally anything to collect at this point) and placing them in their designated location. Add to that, Zelda needs to get her hands on the Triforce of Wisdom to reach her fullest potential to stand up against Ganon. So it’s up to Zelda to play the role of Link in saving Hyrule. The game could predictably end with a clash between Zelda and Ganon, and once Ganon is down, using the Triforce of Wisdom and whatever relics she collected to call the goddesses for help in sealing Ganon away for a time.

 

Gameplay would be pretty standard Zelda fare: some basic swordplay action, puzzles and lengthy dungeons as well as the gradual addition of new weapons to her arsenal, such as bows and arrows, bombs, a hookshot, and whatever new items they can come up with. There should also be a heavier emphasis on magic, as this is something that she is known for. Using magic to power up her sword and other weapons, as well as change the flow of dungeons and battle could make for some interesting gameplay mechanics. On top of that, being able to change into Shiek could have some cool ideas, such as being better at stealth, close range combat, using unique weapons and maybe some parkour, but not being able to use her sword and certain weapons or use as many magic abilities. Kind of like how Link turned into a wolf in Twilight Princess, only with a little more depth.

 

I dunno, I’m just spitballin’ here, guys. I think a Zelda game (starring Zelda) could be really awesome. 

Edited June 19, 2013 by Indigo Rush

[Diogenes]

Not really a fan of making it the lead-up to the flood. That's kind of a pyrrhic victory, a downer ending for a series that's usually about courage and hope triumphing over evil.

[Indigo Rush]

Not really a fan of making it the lead-up to the flood. That's kind of a pyrrhic victory, a downer ending for a series that's usually about courage and hope triumphing over evil.

 

While true, wouldn't it be great if this was that one Zelda game that took all the risks and broke the status quo in more than one way? Not just having a strong female protagonist for the first time, but having the game end bittersweet as well. It isn't a total victory, but it isn't a total failure, either. I'm sure you could find some way to make it happier than it sounds, I guess... but why not take the risk? 

 

Throw in the fact that there's absolutely no reason that Zelda should be unable to talk, you've then broken at least three traditions in the Zelda series. That doesn't have to be a bad thing.

[Patticus]

If the goddesses are being called back, I'm assuming that this story tells of the final end of this particular timeline, right? In which case, I think that it would be fantastic if Ganondorf is straight up killed maybe halfway into the game, maybe during an epic duel, maybe he's just found dead, maybe his body is hurled into Hyrule Castle... but the evil guiding his armies remains, festers and grows stronger, until it is revealed that the demon lord Demise has at long last returned, thanks to Ganondorf's great sacrifice.

 

Edit: Oh wait, flood precursor story, nevermind.

[Indigo Rush]

Edit: Oh wait, flood precursor story, nevermind.

 

Was literally just about to correct you! 

 

But I like your idea as well. There certainly isn't a more correct way in timeline placement, but I think the precursor story could work because we know for sure that Link never shows up.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Indigo Rush

[Patticus]

Why not make Link the great Prince of the forest people, who rides to the King of Hyrule's aid in his time of need, and ends up dying on the field of battle? Fuck it, make him and Ganondorf fight to the death, surrounded by the chaos of a great battle on the field in front of Hyrule Castle; both great figures end up killing each other (no ambiguity), which causes a great darkening of the world as I guess Ganondorf had planned on dying all along and had made the field of battle his sacrificial altar, nothing much happened then other than flocks of birds flying away and whatnot. Things get quiet, then all shit breaks loose some time later, then the new old foe is revealed and only Zelda can stop him. She must restore her line's divinity.

 

Such a game/story would not only shake up the series's status quo, it'd mark the ending of a whole timeline, and could act as a reset button with a 'new' timeline beginning some time later. There's also the potential for some ouroboros-style the end is the beginning shit, which wouldn't surprise me at all.

[Indigo Rush]

Why not make Link the great Prince of the forest people, who rides to the King of Hyrule's aid in his time of need, and ends up dying on the field of battle? Fuck it, make him and Ganondorf fight to the death, surrounded by the chaos of a great battle on the field in front of Hyrule Castle; both great figures end up killing each other (no ambiguity), which causes a great darkening of the world as I guess Ganondorf had planned on dying all along and had made the field of battle his sacrificial altar, nothing much happened then other than flocks of birds flying away and whatnot. Things get quiet, then all shit breaks loose some time later, then the new old foe is revealed and only Zelda can stop him. She must restore her line's divinity.

 

If it's not the pre-flood story, then I am absolutely behind this idea. 

 

Y'know, it'd be interesting if they added a game to that "Fallen Hero" timeline. A (Princess) Zelda game could be one way to do it.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Indigo Rush

[Patticus]

My idea is not the pre-flood story at all, and it could really flesh out that fallen hero timeline, which seems to be the emptiest of the three as far as game quantities goes (It's just MM and TP, right? Is that the right one?).

[Wraith]

My idea is not the pre-flood story at all, and it could really flesh out that fallen hero timeline, which seems to be the emptiest of the three as far as game quantities goes (It's just MM and TP, right? Is that the right one?).

No. The "Fallen Hero" line consists of the classic Zelda trilogy, a Link to the Past, and the Oracle games.

[Diogenes]

While true, wouldn't it be great if this was that one Zelda game that took all the risks and broke the status quo in more than one way? Not just having a strong female protagonist for the first time, but having the game end bittersweet as well. It isn't a total victory, but it isn't a total failure, either. I'm sure you could find some way to make it happier than it sounds, I guess... but why not take the risk? 

 

Throw in the fact that there's absolutely no reason that Zelda should be unable to talk, you've then broken at least three traditions in the Zelda series. That doesn't have to be a bad thing.

Well, breaking tradition just for the sake of it isn't always a good thing. I don't think it'd be very satisfying to travel all over Hyrule, meeting people and fighting off monsters, just to be responsible for destroying it all in the end.

[Patticus]

No. The "Fallen Hero" line consists of the classic Zelda trilogy, a Link to the Past, and the Oracle games.

 

Nevermind then... the Vanished Hero timeline then. That one needs some filling out. Put my story there.

[Wraith]

Nevermind then... the Vanished Hero timeline then. That one needs some filling out. Put my story there.

 

Isn't Ganondorf pretty much beyond dead in that one though?

[Patticus]

Isn't Ganondorf pretty much beyond dead in that one though?

 

He was almost resurrected in Twilight Princess. He can be resurrected again later on. Just say that a cabal of sorcerers and necromancers got lucky and managed to revive him using a series of ancient tablet inscriptions they hunted down. They can then become some of Zelda's boss fights.

[Indigo Rush]

Nevermind then... the Vanished Hero timeline then. That one needs some filling out. Put my story there.

That's the child Link timeline you're thinking of, where he returned and warned Zelda in advance about Ganondorf's intentions. The Vanished Hero timeline is the pre-flood one I was suggesting, where Zelda sent Link back in time and Ganon resurfaced.

 

 

Well, breaking tradition just for the sake of it isn't always a good thing. I don't think it'd be very satisfying to travel all over Hyrule, meeting people and fighting off monsters, just to be responsible for destroying it all in the end.

Doesn't mean it wouldn't work, though. Really, a flooded Hyrule is much better than what Ganon would have done to it. The argument that it isn't as happy as an unflooded Hyrule isn't really that strong aside from wanting to stick to the status quo. Didn't Wind Waker end with the castle, as well as the King, being flooded away for good? That's pretty bittersweet.

 

I'm not exactly going to fight to the death over this scenario, but I'm just saying that there is an opportunity to do something different. If a bittersweet ending isn't appropriate here, when will it ever be appropriate? Nintendo isn't exactly known for changing things up too much nowadays (well, at least with Mario) so why not take a risk here? It's not like it'll be the end of the Zelda series because the ending wasn't super happy. (I know that isn't exactly what you're saying, but I'm not seeing a good enough reason not to have things end on a slightly less triumphant note)

Edited June 19, 2013 by Indigo Rush

[Patticus]

That's the child Link timeline you're thinking of, where he returned and warned Zelda in advance about Ganondorf's intentions. The Vanished Hero timeline is the pre-flood one I was suggesting, where Zelda sent Link back in time and Ganon resurfaced.

 

Yeah, that's the one. I'm not good at remembering which each one is.

[Octarine]

He was almost resurrected in Twilight Princess. He can be resurrected again. Just say that a cabal of sorcerers and necromancers got lucky and managed to revive him using a series of ancient tablet inscriptions they hunted down. They can then become some of Zelda's boss fights.

 

It's easier than that, even. He was reincarnated Link-style and re-powered from scratch in Four Swords Adventures (which takes place after Twilight Princess for whatever reason), so not only is that version of Ganon lying around waiting to be used, but that's pretty definitive evidence that Ganon pretty much can't ever be killed permanently by anything. Call it Demise's curse or whatever.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Octarine

[Indigo Rush]

Yeah, that's the one. I'm not good at remembering which each one is.

Heh, no one would blame you. It's pretty complicated.

[Wraith]

It's easier than that, even. He was reincarnated Link-style and re-powered from scratch in Four Swords Adventures, so not only is that version of Ganon lying around waiting to be used, but that's pretty definitive evidence that Ganon pretty much can't ever be killed permanently by anything. Call it Demise's curse or whatever.

I'd be willing to bet Wind Waker Ganon is pretty damn dead. He DOES have the master sword literally stuck into his head with the ocean on top of him.

 

Then again, we don't know what the future will bring.

[Octarine]

Wind Waker Ganon's kind of a whole 'nother deal. I'd say the power of the Master Sword embedded in his skull (and the secret holy ocean he's stuck under) could work to keep him from being brought back by any means unless the sword's removed, which it won't ever be.

 

...I always liked the thought that Demise's curse wasn't Ganon specifically, but that it sort of took advantage of whatever local evil was available (Ganon, Vaati, Malladus) and beefed it up to try to murder Link and Zelda. Ganon was just the most convenient, and stubborn, option.

[Patticus]

It's easier than that, even. He was reincarnated Link-style and re-powered from scratch in Four Swords Adventures (which takes place after Twilight Princess for whatever reason), so not only is that version of Ganon lying around waiting to be used, but that's pretty definitive evidence that Ganon pretty much can't ever be killed permanently by anything. Call it Demise's curse or whatever.

 

Which would make Link and him fighting to the death in the middle of a gigantic chaotic, bloody, brutal battle even more impactful; this almost ever-present evil force who returns time and time again to haunt the good people of Hyrule is finally, definitively, once-and-for-all eradicated (at the cost of the countless Hylian soldiers' lives, and the life of the great hero prince Link). How it would be communicated that this was his final act, I don't know, I guess the potential to return may always exist, but it'd still be bittersweet to the max... And it'd result in an ancient, much worse evil bursting onto a scene that lacks a traditional green-clad great hero to stop him.

[Diogenes]

Didn't Wind Waker end with the castle, as well as the King, being flooded away for good? That's pretty bittersweet.

Well yes, it is bitter and sweet. Bitter because the long-lost kingdom of Hyrule will truly be destroyed, but also sweet because they sail off in search of a new land. The message is to not be trapped in the ruins of the past, but to move forward towards a brighter future.

That's a hell of a lot more optimistic than a game where you actively seek the destruction of Hyrule because you can't actually win properly.

I'm not exactly going to fight to the death over this scenario, but I'm just saying that there is an opportunity to do something different. If a bittersweet ending isn't appropriate here, when will it ever be appropriate? Nintendo isn't exactly known for changing things up too much nowadays (well, at least with Mario) so why not take a risk here? It's not like it'll be the end of the Zelda series because the ending wasn't super happy.

But, I mean, what do we gain from it, aside from "doing something different".

[Patticus]

Well yes, it is bitter and sweet. Bitter because the long-lost kingdom of Hyrule will truly be destroyed, but also sweet because they sail off in search of a new land. The message is to not be trapped in the ruins of the past, but to move forward towards a brighter future.

That's a hell of a lot more optimistic than a game where you actively seek the destruction of Hyrule because you can't actually win properly.

 

The flooding of Hyrule and the saving of humanity from Ganondorf's armies by being plopped on the newly formed islands is actually eerily reminiscent of the imprisoning of Demise, the perma-clouding of the land and the saving of humanity on islands in the sky in Skyward Sword.

 

It's all just a little bit of history repeating

[Indigo Rush]

Well yes, it is bitter and sweet. Bitter because the long-lost kingdom of Hyrule will truly be destroyed, but also sweet because they sail off in search of a new land. The message is to not be trapped in the ruins of the past, but to move forward towards a brighter future.

That's a hell of a lot more optimistic than a game where you actively seek the destruction of Hyrule because you can't actually win properly.

No one's saying that they have to know that Ganon will rise again. What isn't triumphant about sealing the Great King of Evil away for another 100 or so years and starting fresh? From their perspective, a massive flood would be a necessary evil. There can be just as much sweet in the initial repopulation of the mountaintops of Hyrule as there is in a Hyrulian Manifest Destiny.

 

Besides, of course Ganon is going to show up again. He's a series mainstay. Does that stop the games from feeling pointless?

 

But, I mean, what do we gain from it, aside from "doing something different".

Isn't that one of the main reasons we make sequels to great games? How can we do something new and different? How can we change the status quo a little each time? Why stop at Zelda being the protagonist? It's "doing something different for the sake of doing something different," but that doesn't make it a poor excuse. Perhaps a less triumphant ending could be a good thing.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Indigo Rush

[Octarine]

Whatever the case, I think the game with the bittersweet gods-intervene-by-flooding-everything ending would probably be best left for a second or third outing of Zelda as the protagonist. It might not be wise to have Zelda's first starring role in a game also be the game where everything goes pretty much to shit specifically because Link isn't around.