General Fighting Game Discussion Thread.

[Patch Black]

Stick here <3 So happy with the tournament edition~ I might have to change the artwork on it one day.. make it Sonic themed <3

Playing with a stick is hard if you're transitioning from a pad. I mean, the buttons are spread farther apart and you use most of your fingers now! New people, don't be discouraged thinking you have to use a stick to play well. It's really just a preference. I only play stick because that's what I'm used to.

Who else holds their stick like a fine glass of wine? I know you're out there! People who play in Japanese style cabinets will understand! The best part is that you don't get to see your opponent seething in anger when you win. *Snickers*

[Chooch]

Fighting games aren't too complicated. Especially nowadays. Too many people just come in with shitty, defeatist attitudes and aren't willing to take the time to learn them. It's just laziness. How much does a developer have to do in order for people to bother trying to learn these games for more than a few minutes? Can you really say that it's entirely their fault?

You've got shit like Tutorial / Lesson mode for learning the basic game mechanics, Challenge / Trial mode for learning combos, Training mode for practicing the combos you learned in Challenge / Trial mode (as well as various other things) and shit like Marvel 3's Simple Mode, BlazBlue's "Stylish" Mode (Yes that's what it's called) and Persona 4: Arena's auto-combos to make things easier and more accessible.

Some people can grasp things quicker than others. Yeah sure, that is true. But that applies to everything. Not just fighting games, not just video games. Everything. You just have to keep at it.

Fighting games don't need to be simplified. They've already been simplified plenty over the past few years. You just gotta put in the time. It's only a waste if you make it a waste. If you keep at it, it does pay off. I can tell you from personal experience.

P.S. I still think I'm ass at fighting games. Some of you here may think I'm amazing but I still see plenty of room for improvement. I learn more, get better and make progress slowly but surely every day I play them.

Pad warriors = master race

Edited August 20, 2012 by Chooch

[killemoff]

I love fighting games. And i'm personally just a mediocre level player. I stayed up all night watching this years EVO finals, and last years, and also 2010. Just to stress how much i love them.

But anyway, fighting games at a basic level, are regularly pretty easy to learn. You learn to move, jump and press ye ol' punch\kick of your choosing. No form of rocket science by any means. Then come special attacks, things like the QCF, (which i will forever call the "Hadoken motion") DP motions and whatnot, you start spamming these new moves out, learn their strenghts and flaws.

Eventually, you choose a character of your liking, and memorize a couple of his special moves and and your favorite attack buttons (i know i was always HP\HK guy for way too many years ). These are all things you do naturally, or at least i did.

Now, the genre of fighting games is tradicionally 1v1, although there are exceptions, which means you'll be fighting a CPU, or preferably, a human opponent. Now this is where it can make or break the deal for you. How much do you enjoy the competition? How well do you deal with frustating situations. If you love the competition, and have the will to surpass the challenges that lay before you, then you've taken the first step towards evolving as a FG player.

After this point, it's to you on where you want to go.

I recomend reading this:

http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/controlling-space.1816/

A guide written by Seth Killian, previously Community Manager at Capcom, now working with Sony Santa Monica on several titles, one of them the upcoming Sony All Stars fighting game. Basically, it describes the most important part of pretty much any fighting game, not just Capcom ones, which is controlling space. Anyone from pro players to pot monsters will tell you this is mandatory reading.

Link was taken from here, plenty of good stuff for the people interested.

http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?forums/domination-101.98/

Hope this helps anyone.

[LunarEdge]

I personally feel Fighting Games ARE NOT complicated at all, for any level player, be it a new player or a veteran to fighting games in general. Anyone can pick up a fighting game, mash buttons and still have fun with it if you ask me, and to an extent, having fun is all that really matters.

NOW~... depending how "deep" you want to dive into any fighter determines the complexity of that particular game/genre of game. Games like UMvC3 are much easier to link/chain combos and play in general, BUT if you want to participate in a more competitive scene, then you better sit down, learn the tech, the terms, the ups and downs of practically every character, match-ups, frame data and much more. Even games like BB and P4A aren't as strict with timing to chain combos together and whatnot but other factors such as stun recovery, not being able to block certain attacks in air w/o a barrier block and etc. make the game a bit more complicated compared to titles such as Street Fighter.

Also, for the argument of "there's too many moves and at times they are hard to remember," when it comes to 2D fighters... I find that to be BS. Commands for most characters in most 2D fighters are easy to figure out since most of them have been copy>paste from series to series, from generation to generation, give or take a few selective titles. QCF, QCB, HCF, HCB, 360's, DP's.... mash any of these combinations out for any character in almost any 2D fighter and I bet something in the "special attack," category will come out, it's just a matter of when, not really if. To an extent, the same even goes for 3D fighters.

Also.. can we please stop comparing Smash to fighters. One is more of a party game if anything, than a fighter. To each their own, but still. Fighting games are fighting games, Smash is Smash... is that a bad thing? Not at all.

Also, as mentioned before... games nowadays usually add enough to teach any newcomer how to play AKA hold your hand. Tutorials, character specific challenges, training mode, easy-mode, simplified combos (mashing A in P4A), and much more. Learning how to be mediocre at best at these games isn't hard and doesn't take much of your time and frankly... I'm tired of people who are complaining that fighters are too complicated. Why do I feel this way? Because due to such complaints and refusal to actually learn the game, I feel developers are trying to hard to hold their hand and the games are becoming to simple. Something like preset combos in SFxT and A combos in P4A are mechanics that are NOT needed

Edited August 22, 2012 by LunarEdge

[LunarEdge]

Also, any of you guys/gals consider yourselves 09ers?

[Chooch]

If such a thing exists then I'd be an '08er. Soulcalibur IV was probably the first game I got seriously competitive in to the point where I wanted to compete at (and got to) tournament level.

That isn't to say I haven't striven to play fighting games well before that tho'. I like to be really skilled at any game I put my time into. Especially if it has competitive multiplayer. This goes for racing games as well.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Chooch

[LunarEdge]

If such a thing exists then I'd be an '08er. Soulcalibur IV was probably the first game I got seriously competitive in to the point where I wanted to compete at (and got to) tournament level.

That isn't to say I haven't striven to play fighting games well before that tho'. I like to be really skilled at any game I put my time into. Especially if it has competitive multiplayer. This goes for racing games as well.

Even though I've been playing fighters all my life, I would say I started taking them a bit more serious with this newer generation of consoles. Went to a few tournaments here and there, even went to the Break Weekly to just get wreckeed XD. I find myself wanting to get better at fighting games and that's it really it. Any other genre of games I tend to just...play for the fun of it XD.

I was always into fighters as mentioned before, but I feel that SSFIV and the Online edition of MvC2 got me back into fighters and had me take them more seriously, due to being able to compete with people online and not just being restricted to friends who come over or your brother XD

More recently however... I find myself loving Arc Systems fighters. Blazeblue and P4A are soooooooo good.

Edited August 22, 2012 by LunarEdge

[buba]

Well, you guys are probably gonna hate me for this but I only got competitive in Street Fighter x Tekken... Oh, also Skullgirls.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Tmsp

[Kuzu]

I didn't really become a fan until it became apparent my friends were playing them like that, before that the only person I played against was my brother in Street Fighter II on the SNES and in MvC2 on the Playstation. I heard about Guilty Gear, but I had no to play, so I forgot about it, and I didn't discover Blazblue until 2009, but I didn't have an HD console so I was shit out of luck. It wasn't until last year that I really got into fighters.

[LunarEdge]

Well you guys are probably gonna hate me for this but I only got competitive in Street Fighter x Tekken... Oh, also Skullgirls.

HOW DARE YOU!!! Lol, jk jk. To each their own. I personally have a blast with SFxT when playing a 4 player tag match with 3 other friends or even randoms online. It opens up a whole new world of possibilities and stragety when cooperating with a friend in a fighter.

Even doing the team battles in BBCS:E is fun and different to an extent. If anything, more fighters need to be 2p vs 2p. At one time I was even hoping UMvC3 would introduce a 2p vs 2p or even a 3p vs 3p mode XD

[Kuzu]

I don't hate SFxT, but it's not really something I can take seriously as a fighter.

[buba]

I don't hate SFxT, but it's not really something I can take seriously as a fighter.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Tmsp

[LunarEdge]

Is it the gems business? I never used one, to tell the true I don't really understand them.

Maybe that is why I lose soo much...

[buba]

unless you splurged on the DLC gems for extended Pandora time.

Edited August 22, 2012 by Tmsp

[Phos]

jab jab jab jab jab jab.

That's a pressure string in SF X Tekken.

And the first fighting game I really tried to learn would be Virtua Fighter 5, but it was some time after its release. I also had some fun beating Japanese people when Virtual On came out on XBLA.

[Chooch]

I know SFxT hate is old but this shit is still funny to me.

[Silencer226]

I didn't really become a fan until it became apparent my friends were playing them like that, before that the only person I played against was my brother in Street Fighter II on the SNES and in MvC2 on the Playstation. I heard about Guilty Gear, but I had no to play, so I forgot about it, and I didn't discover Blazblue until 2009, but I didn't have an HD console so I was shit out of luck. It wasn't until last year that I really got into fighters.

I have played fighters casually, but it wasn't until I picked up BlazBlue that I started to really get into the genre, and that was on the PS Vita (it had a purpose back then ). Now I have a stick and have pretty much been playing training, challenges, tutorials, and having Ragsy kick my ass around a bit.

Edited August 23, 2012 by Noel Vermillion

[Kuzu]

I have played fighters casually, but it wasn't until I picked up BlazBlue that I started to really get into the genre, and that was on the PS Vita (it had a purpose back then ). Now I have a stick and have pretty much been playing training, challenges, tutorials, and having Ragsy kick my ass around a bit.

Hey that's how I learned, got my ass kicked on a regular basis.

[Silencer226]

How long did it take you to get to where you're at now Ragna. I'm trying new characters and I cannot keep a combo going past 5 hits...

[Kuzu]

How long did it take you to get to where you're at now Ragna. I'm trying new characters and I cannot keep a combo going past 5 hits...

Well I started with Hakumen, then I moved on to Rags. So I say maybe a month or two.

[LunarEdge]

Took me quite a while to get decent with Makoto and I still got whooped by my friends Tager and another friend's Ragna. When CS2 came out and made Platinum available I jumped on her and I never regreted it. My friends get salty and try to justify their lost because Platinum has "gimmicks" XD. That's what BB pretty much is... everyone has one. The same friends said I should get on Teddy in P4A since he reminds them of Platinum but I refuse because Teddy isn't a cute little non-loli XD

BB had to be one of the hardest games for me to learn, but once you get it down it's cake.

Edited August 23, 2012 by LunarEdge

[Kuzu]

You should see the bullshit my friends pull with Tager: "Gadget Finger, Sledge, Gadget Finger" God, I'm glad how to kick Tager's ass with Ragna.

[Silencer226]

*Sigh* Mu-12 is hard as fuck for me to learn to use properly, I got beaten by someone simply grabbing me repeatedly... I'm going into challenge mode again and doing the same challenge over repeatedly until it becomes second nature.

Also my fightstick layout was retarded..

AB

DC

Now it's

ABC

D

...Maybe that will help some, I dunno, I'm feeling discouraged.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Noel Vermillion

[Phos]

For what it's worth the arcade layout is

ABC

D

If I recall correctly.

If you ask me Blazblue's throw and throw escape system needs to be completely redone. If you aren't used to doing the input on reaction a lot of people won't have any response to throw combos. If you aren't used to throw escaping a Jin player can use it for an easy infinite.

From my limited experience playing it I think Guilty Gear is still a much better game, although I wouldn't be surprised if that down to it reminding me of an older era of anime before it became the thing it is today.

[Carbo]

The competitive scene regards Guilty Gear in a lot more favorite light most of the time, the reason for that being that BlazBlue is slower but also a lot more scripted in it's combos. There isn't much leeway to be had in it's dial-a-combo setup that's been simplified for an entry level. BlazBlue doesn't really have much of an oki metagame to speak of either, although I figure most of the people complaining about that would be Tekken players.

The throw system is hit and miss for me. For the most of the part they're way too overpowered for way too many combos but at the same time they're fairly easy to break out of assuming you have a proper reaction time. It's basically punishing you badly if you screw up something that you get good at with experience and I'm not sure if I feel it's the most optimal solution.