General Fighting Game Discussion Thread.

[Kuzu]

To further prevent the Sonic Discussion from being derailed, we're talking about this here.


Ok, cuz I'm lazy, copy-pasta from Wikipedia
 

Fighting game is a video game genre where the player controls an on-screen character and engages in close combat with an opponent. These characters tend to be of equal power and fight matches consisting of several rounds, which take place in an arena. Players must master techniques such as blocking, counter-attacking, and chaining together sequences of attacks known as "combos". Since the early 1990s, most fighting games allow the player to execute special attacks by performing specific button combinations. The genre is related to but distinct from beat 'em ups, which involve large numbers of antagonists.

The first game to feature fist fighting was Heavyweight Champ in 1976, but it was Karate Champ and The Way of the Exploding Fist which popularized one-on-one martial arts games in 1984 and 1985 respectively. Also in 1985, Yie Ar Kung-Fu featured antagonists with differing fighting styles, while 1987's Street Fighter introduced hidden special attacks. In 1991, Capcom's highly successful Street Fighter II refined and popularized many of the conventions of the genre. The fighting game subsequently became the preeminent genre for competitive video gaming in the early to mid-1990s, especially in arcades. This period spawned numerous popular fighting games in addition to Street Fighter, including the successful and long running franchises Mortal Kombat and later Virtua Fighter and Tekken.
The genre's popularity stagnated as games became more complicated and as arcades began to lose their audience to increasingly powerful home consoles near the end of the 1990s, though new franchises such as Dead or Alive, and the Soul series achieved success. In the new millennium, the genre remains popular but retains a much smaller proportion of enthusiasts than it once did, due to the increasing popularity of other genres and internet multiplayer gaming.

It's no secret that I love fighting games as anyone who recognizes my avatar can attest to, but I feel people give the genre more flack than needed. While I do understand that some fighting games have a steep learning curve, they really aren't all that hard once you get the hang of it, but most people will dismiss it simply because "it's too hard" or "it prevents you from having fun". So what are your opinions on the fighting game genre.

 

[Wraith]

Well, this really depends on the game. Super Smash Bros Brawl is a favorite to so many because the system manages to be deep, yet at the same time simple enough for newbies to pick up.

[MegaMan_EXE]

Well, I'm not that good at fighting games, and practicing on Marvel Vs Capcom 2 is kind of hard. Mainly due to how hard it is to remember moves and get moves to work on a PS3 controller. I'll get good at it someday.

[Solkia]

I will say they aren't for everyone, but assuming you have to memorize every single move on the list is mandatory is dumb.

Though with shit like Street Fighter II,( and maybe the other installments, I don't know), having 6 different standard attacks mapped to 6 different buttons is fucking annoying.

But with something like Soul Calibur, it's much easier to get into because of how simple combos are.

[Remy]

I will say they aren't for everyone, but assuming you have to memorize every single move on the list is mandatory is dumb.

Though with shit like Street Fighter II,( and maybe the other installments, I don't know), having 6 different standard attacks mapped to 6 different buttons is fucking annoying.

Is it? why is it annoying? Would Street Fighter 2 be a better game if it only had two buttons? Are less options in gameplay a good thing? is it a positive to restrict the player?

But with something like Soul Calibur, it's much easier to get into because of how simple combos are.

I would like to point out that Soul Calibur only has two less buttons then Street Fighter, and if we're talking about unnesicarily long move lists/combos, SC has that market cornered. The reason you think it's easy though is probably due to the fact the game has a couple (mostly useless) easy combos thrown in to make new players feel like they're amazing.

[Gregzilla]

I like a flashy 2D fighter every now and then, but I personally think the traditional fighting formula is far too complicated. It requires a ton of memorization to just get good with one character, which is not fun. Plus, they often have huge issues with balancing.

Example: I once saw Marvel Vs. Capcom 3 at a demo kiosk in Best Buy, so I decided to try it out. A little girl who looked about 6 years old came up and joined in Versus mode. I was trying to have a good time trying out various moves with a bunch of characters, but she just kept pressing A as Trish. My ass was kicked. Now, before you say anything, no, I am not good at these games. But if a 6-year-old girl can beat someone who's been playing video games for over a decade, I think something's wrong.

I much prefer games like Super Smash Bros. and Power Stone. They are much simpler, but they still require a lot of skill. The difference is that you don't have to dedicate hours upon hours just learning the basics. I want to wind down and play a video game, not pause every 2 seconds to stare at a combo list.

But if other people like that kinda thing, good for them. I'm not saying it isn't fun, it's just kinda frustrating for me compared to other genres. I do enjoy some Street Fighter or MvC3 every now and then.

Edited August 18, 2012 by Gregzilla

[Remy]

I like a flashy 2D fighter every now and then, but I personally think the traditional fighting formula is far too complicated. It requires a ton of memorization to just get good with one character, which is not fun. Plus, they often have huge issues with balancing.

Example: I once saw Marvel Vs. Capcom 3 at a demo kiosk in Best Buy, so I decided to try it out. A little girl who looked about 6 years old came up and joined in Versus mode. I was trying to have a good time trying out various moves with a bunch of characters, but she just kept pressing A as Trish. My ass was kicked. Now, before you say anything, no, I am not good at these games. But if a 6-year-old girl can beat someone who's been playing video games for over a decade, I think something's wrong.

You're contradicting yourself XP

If the game is insurmountably complicated how did a 6 year old manage to whip ass?

[Nix]

I don't think they're complicated for the most part. The only fighter I've played that I'd say is sort of complicated is MvC3/UMvC3, and that's mostly because the game is a bit too fast paced and chaotic for my tastes. On top of that, you have to manage 3 fighters instead of 1, each having their own assists and shit and I simply can't wrap my mind around it at all. I can however handle slower fighters like Mortal Kombat and Soul Calibur quite well, and I was perfectly able to pump out some ridiculous combos in them after an hour or so of practice. I've spent several hours practicing in MvC3 and finding what works best for me, and I simply cannot figure it out at all.

I like Smash Bros a lot since it's simple and easy to get into, and it's easy to switch between characters since they all share the same button commands for their attacks. Allows me to fool around without making a complete fool of myself, which is good in my book.

Edited August 18, 2012 by Pinkamina

[Blacklightning]

Smash Bros works pretty good for me because the control scheme is completely uniform, and simple things like character weight were more than enough to make characters feel differently if mere differences in moveset weren't enough to. As long as all the inputs are the same it eliminates the need to memorize them for individual characters, which is a pretty pointless hurdle for the genre if you ask me. Even when you do get into this seemingly inevitable question of "well you don't even have to learn the entire moveset" it just begs the question of why the fuck we even have moves that nobody is ever going to use - it just screams of redundancy and poor optimization to me.

Edited August 18, 2012 by The Cheese

[Solkia]

Is it? why is it annoying? Would Street Fighter 2 be a better game if it only had two buttons? Are less options in gameplay a good thing? is it a positive to restrict the player?

I would like to point out that Soul Calibur only has two less buttons then Street Fighter, and if we're talking about unnesicarily long move lists/combos, SC has that market cornered.

Soul Calibur from what I remember has Strong Punch, Weak Punch, Strong Kick, and Weak Kick, I haven't played it in a while.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Street Fighter use Low Kick, Mid Kick, High Kick, Low Punch, Mid Punch, High Punch? Why do those all need to be mapped to separate buttons?

EDIT: How could i forget that Soul Calibur uses weapons jhkshjkl

Edited August 18, 2012 by Solkia-kun

[Wraith]

To me it seems like only a Punch button and a Kick button would me necessary. I don't really know much about Street Fighter though.

[Remy]

Soul Calibur from what I remember has Strong Punch, Weak Punch, Strong Kick, and Weak Kick, I haven't played it in a while.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Street Fighter use Low Kick, Mid Kick, High Kick, Low Punch, Mid Punch, High Punch? Why do those all need to be mapped to separate buttons?

Soul Calibur has Horizontal Slash, Vertical Slash, Kick and Guard.

Street Fighter has light, medium, hard punch and kick, with crouching and jumping variations.

Also, whilst in street fighter pressing a punch or a kick will usually net the same move, doing things like pressing forward in soul calibur net you a completely different move. It's different approaches to roughly the same level of complexity.

To me it seems like only a Punch button and a Kick button would me necessary. I don't really know much about Street Fighter though.

So each character has only one punch and one kick. Doesn't that sound a little boring to you?

Smash Bros works pretty good for me because the control scheme is completely uniform, and simple things like character weight were more than enough to make characters feel differently if mere differences in moveset weren't enough to. As long as all the inputs are the same it eliminates the need to memorize them for individual characters, which is a pretty pointless hurdle for the genre if you ask me. Even when you do get into this seemingly inevitable question of "well you don't even have to learn the entire moveset" it just begs the question of why the fuck we even have moves that nobody is ever going to use - it just screams of redundancy and poor optimization to me.

This would have been a great argument like 5-10 years ago before fighter game devs started trimming the fat and standardising inputs.

Have you played a fighting game lately? It's not like when you pick certain characters your punch buttons change to block or throw buttons or something, the controls are standardised, the only thing that isn't are the characters, for the sake of avoiding mediocrity.

The rendunant move thing is still kind of applicable though, but only to Tekken and Soul Calibur. Not SF, Blazblue, P4:arena, Vf5, etc.

[Gregzilla]

You're contradicting yourself XP

If the game is insurmountably complicated how did a 6 year old manage to whip ass?

Well, here's the thing. In order for me to have FUN in those games, I need to get used to movesets and use a variety of moves. In order to do that, I need to spend a lot of time getting comfortable with each character. I COULD just mash A over and over again, but I don't find that fun.

Basically I have two options: get ass-whooped by people that have been practicing for a ridiculous amount of time, or get ass-whooped by someone who's being cheap and only pressing one button. I haven't run into a whole lot of middle ground.

Like I said, I'm no good at these games, but I prefer games that you can grasp within a few minutes. I'd rather have a deep game with simple controls than a simple concept with extremely complicated controls.

[Kuzu]

To me it seems like only a Punch button and a Kick button would me necessary. I don't really know much about Street Fighter though.

Every character having a simple punch and kick button would be kind of boring and I'd more to be honest.

[Law]

I've been playing fighting games (mostly Street Fighter games) since I was about 8. At first the combinations were a bit confusing to me, but after some practice I could pull off moves quite easily. SSBB is for people who have no experience of playing fighting games.

[Kuzu]

Well, here's the thing. In order for me to have FUN in those games, I need to get used to movesets and use a variety of moves. In order to do that, I need to spend a lot of time getting comfortable with each character. I COULD just mash A over and over again, but I don't find that fun.

Basically I have two options: get ass-whooped by people that have been practicing for a ridiculous amount of time, or get ass-whooped by someone who's being cheap and only pressing one button. I haven't run into a whole lot of middle ground.

Like I said, I'm no good at these games, but I prefer games that you can grasp within a few minutes. I'd rather have a deep game with simple controls than a simple concept with extremely complicated controls.

Ya know this is why these games have a training mode so shit like that won;t happen, and I'm pretty sure those people didn't get good over night, you wanna be good at something practice it, learn it. I mean is dedicated more than five minutes to learn a game really such a bother?

[Solkia]

I don't think that's what he's saying guys. Think Smash Bros, normal and special buttons. what move you use depends on which direction you're holding.

[Remy]

Well, here's the thing. In order for me to have FUN in those games, I need to get used to movesets and use a variety of moves. In order to do that, I need to spend a lot of time getting comfortable with each character. I COULD just mash A over and over again, but I don't find that fun.

Basically I have two options: get ass-whooped by people that have been practicing for a ridiculous amount of time, or get ass-whooped by someone who's being cheap and only pressing one button. I haven't run into a whole lot of middle grou

or option C.) learn how to play the game and not get ass whooped by people that practice as well.

Asking for the game to be "deep" and "simple" is an oxymoron, you can't have both. If the game is deep people that put more effort into practicing are going to be better than you.

I don't think that's what he's saying guys. Think Smash Bros, normal and special buttons. what move you use depends on which direction you're holding.

How is that less complicated than which move you use depending on what button you press, regardless of directional input?

[Solkia]

Ya know this is why these games have a training mode so shit like that won;t happen, and I'm pretty sure those people didn't get good over night, you wanna be good at something practice it, learn it. I mean is dedicated more than five minutes to learn a game really such a bother?

Fighting a computer in training mode and a person who's been at this for a while aren't really the same.

[Remy]

Fighting a computer in training mode and a person who's been at this for a while aren't really the same.

There are two parts to every fighter, mindgames and execution.

Using training mode to make sure you know how to defend or attack in certain situations makes excellent practice for when you have to fight a person later.

[Blacklightning]

So each character has only one punch and one kick. Doesn't that sound a little boring to you?

Every time I see comments like this I can't help but think of games like Cursed Crusade or Dynasty Warriors which advertise things like "300+ moves" only for it to be beat-em-up equivalent of Simon Says in depth. I really wouldn't say it's impossible to make some decent metagame with only two buttons - hell, if anything that would help narrow down the focus of the game and cut down on the unnecessary proverbial fat that few people honestly look to in the first place.

Unless you literally mean one kick move and one punch move as opposed to just a two button fighting game. Which yeah, would be a bit too extreme on that end of the scale.

[Gregzilla]

Smash Bros' gameplay is much easier to grasp. Every character had different moves, weight, and feel, but their controls are all exactly the same. To get good at the game, you need to learn which moves to use and when for each character, just like other fighters, but you don't have to spend as much time learning the basic controls.

[Solkia]

Forget it.

Edited August 19, 2012 by Solkia-kun

[Eternal EX]

I think it depends on the game. Smash bros melee/Brawl are easy to pick up and doesn't require all this crap to memorize. But it does take skill to be damn good at it. Force a noob to go up against LVL 9 Ganondorfs. See if he wins because I guarantee you he wont. But back on topic (not like I really got off topic). Games like Melee/brawl are easier to pick up and enjoy while others like Street fighter, Tekken and BlueBlaz arent. They actually require the players to sit down and learn what the hell they are doing.

[Wraith]

Yeah, I meant that you'd just have two attack buttons instead of 6 fucking buttons. All High and Low attacks would be by holding the D pad in a certain direction. Should streamline things a bit more.

Edited August 18, 2012 by Waterwraith