Sonic-related pet peeves?

[Nepenthe]

if anything in the newer games, is there any reason to tie rings to health anymore? Why not leave them as a currency and/or meter filler, and have a two-bar health system like classic Mario in which filling it is dependent upon hitting an enemy, passing a checkpoint, or finding a health refill item. Two consecutive hits and you die. Seems simple enough.

[Diogenes]

Something I thought might be interesting.  Instead of losing a fixed amount every time you get hit, what if you lost a different amount based on the number of rings you currently have?  That way it retains the challenge without punishing the player for every misstep?  Basically, what if you lose percentages as opposed to specified quantities.

 

That might be too complicated for basic gameplay, though, but I don't think it's without merits that some obstacles allow you to only lose a few rings depending on how hard and severe it is.  Especially in the 3D games.

It doesn't sound bad on paper, but I feel like getting hit is rare enough in most Sonic games that it wouldn't actually make much difference.

And, even with a drop-all ring system, you're probably more likely to die via instant death (pits mostly, and the occasional crushing or drowning) than from damage. Bosses being the exception, since they generally trap you in a limited area and give you only a limited number of rings. In levels, though, since the series puts so much focus on moving, you've most likely run past whatever obstacle has hit you by the time your flicker invincibility has run out, and considering how common rings are, you've probably grabbed a few even if you managed to miss all the ones you dropped. Only losing a limited number of rings is only going to make it less likely for you to be caught off guard with zero.

[jords]

If I was to choose, I would choose drop all rings. I just remember how rings were so important in boss levels. I always take at least a small bit on how many rings I got. I'd probably take 3 if were 10 coins in total, if I was extra careful I'd just take 1. And dropping some rings would give away that feeling were I need to quickly rush to grab another ring before I die. Its torture but it keeps the challenge.

[Tara]

It doesn't sound bad on paper, but I feel like getting hit is rare enough in most Sonic games that it wouldn't actually make much difference.

And, even with a drop-all ring system, you're probably more likely to die via instant death (pits mostly, and the occasional crushing or drowning) than from damage. Bosses being the exception, since they generally trap you in a limited area and give you only a limited number of rings. In levels, though, since the series puts so much focus on moving, you've most likely run past whatever obstacle has hit you by the time your flicker invincibility has run out, and considering how common rings are, you've probably grabbed a few even if you managed to miss all the ones you dropped. Only losing a limited number of rings is only going to make it less likely for you to be caught off guard with zero.

Well, you don't lose rings from just getting hit.  In Sonic 4 Episode II (using this only as a reference since it's the last thing I played), there were also exhaust pipes that you had to avoid getting burnt by.  If those managed to hit you, they would naturally take all your rings.

 

Really, though, I think the lack of threats from enemies and far and in-between obstacles that are actually difficult to avoid is something that the games have been kind of lacking lately, anyway.  That's why I said the game should be built around it, as opposed to using the same mechanics.  As is, rings don't really serve a purpose aside from being easy one-up catalysts as is.

[SlickEvan]

The only reason I'm fine if Boom has a health bar because of it trying to be different and the team behind it, but Sega's Sonic I personally think, should never go to the health bar system because that IS part of Sonic's Sonic-yness. Maybe for werehog or if they go with a fighting game (battle, fighters or any beat em up type thing they wanna do) but for normal, natural, 3D Sonic I think there's no need to take a step back, that's always what made him different and easier per say. But also made it challenging at the same time. Even with a currency system it adds to the challenge, (SA2B and SA1DX example) it tests your skill and isn't as hard as it's claimed to be (for me at least) When it comes to say, Generations it IS harder [to collect DROPPED rings] but that's because his control wasn't as precise and the rings were itty bitty. 

 

It just feels wrong to see Sonic with health-bar (Not Boom... Don't look at me like that... ._. heeey) not saying games can't pull it off [unleashed, Shadow, Sonic Chrono Adventure, Generations] But I feel it's easy enough.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

It annoys me when classic/advance fans tell me and otthers who perfer the new 2D games to those that its because we are spoiled and dont need to use skills. Seriously fuck that, the Rushes/Colors DS/Gens/Sonic 4 you need skills to get through the zones. Examples?

 

(my recorder lag sorry)

 

 

 

yeah spoiled no skill player my ass.

[Kaze no Klonoa]

The Sonic cycle. it's not a hundred percent accurate. 

 

How can I forget this one?

People using Modern Sonic's quote at the end of Generations to snipe at the series.

"Enjoy your future! It's gonna be great!"

No, warping this intrinsically awesome quote to snark at the Sonic series because the later games after the Classic era aren't as critically acclaimed is not witty, clever or sensical and never will be. It just proves that you took the quote out of context or did so in a vain effort to snark at the series. And even if Modern had some kind of weird unexplained awareness of the reception of his games in the real world, it still wouldn't be relevant to the point he's making to Classic; That he's in for some awesome adventures, cool new friends and exciting experiences.

Oh man, I hate this one too. I often see videos showing clips of games from Sonic's worse moments, beginning with "Enjoy your Future! IT's Going to be great!"

[Your Vest Friend]

Dimps' better received games could get really cheap in places. That one wall in Rush where you need to do an upward trick must have been one of the cheapest obstacles I've ever come across, and the same goes for the springboard in Sonic Advance 2 where you need to time a right trick just right or you fall onto a guaranteed death path.

[Kaze no Klonoa]

It annoys me when classic/advance fans tell me and others who perfer the new 2D games to those that its because we are spoiled and dont need to use skills. Seriously fuck that, the Rushes/Colors DS/Gens/Sonic 4 you need skills to get through the zones. Examples?

You mean the 3DS version for Generations? Because lots of people liked Classic Sonic in Generations, well, except those who think the spin dash is too powerful. As for the games mentioned above, they were all developed by Dimps, and while Dimps has made tons of good Sonic games, Dimps seems to like you go fast without gaining speed slowly.

 

The Boost mechanic pretty much makes you go fast with a press of a button. The old games had Sonic gaining momentum, so clearly there is a difference. Oh, and lots of Dash panels. Sonic 4 was totally littered with them. There wasn't a boost button, but Dimps still used it as a way to keep going fast.

 

So sure, these levels may be challenging and require skill, but these games have been attacked by fans because of how easy they are compared to the games they are used too.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

It doesnt mean no skill though. I am kind of a boost purist but I am skill at all games. I just think the boost games and the modern 2Ds are superior to them in every way. Its not spoiled. Its prefrense. Oh and you have momentums in Sonic Rush.

[Kaze no Klonoa]

It doesnt mean no skill though. I am kind of a boost purist but I am skill at all games. I just think the boost games and the modern 2Ds are superior to them in every way. Its not spoiled. Its prefrense. Oh and you have momentums in Sonic Rush.

It's the fact that veteran players think the game is too easy because of the mechanics.

 

And for Rush, I felt less need to use momentum because there really isn't much point for it. Sure, Sonic doesn't go up a loop when not at the speed, but really, the boost can instantly get me over the loop. Even without the Boost, Sonic can pretty much gain speed by pressing R while in the air (Which is a air dash, and pretty much boosts Sonic's speed when he lands)

[StaticMania]

In the Classic games: Whenever there wasn't an obvious speed section in the midst, gaining and keeping up speed takes skill, keeping a consistent amount of speed even when going through "noticeably slower" platforming areas and such...it doesn't take skill to get speed going in the more recent games because they give you the boost mechanics or over powered spin dashes.

 

The focus of the recent games is more on making the player rely on their reaction to get through obstacles while Boosting, not trying to keep a consistent flow through the level...you can't because there's always something that'll force you to slow down not because the player didn't react fast enough or anything but because the game needs you to be slower and not boosting in order to go through the basic platforming sections thrown in the level.

[SlickEvan]

It doesnt mean no skill though. I am kind of a boost purist but I am skill at all games. I just think the boost games and the modern 2Ds are superior to them in every way. Its not spoiled. Its prefrense. Oh and you have momentums in Sonic Rush.

 

Okay please don't say superior. It's not the right choice of word per say. I like SA1/2 A. LOT. And Think they're better than some other 3D outings but won't outright say they are superior. Preference is better. Which you did say, but.. yeah 

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

 

Okay please don't say superior. It's not the right choice of word per say. I like SA1/2 A. LOT. And Think they're better than some other 3D outings but won't outright say they are superior. Preference is better. Which you did say, but.. yeah 

Classic fans say that the classic are supeiror.

[StaticMania]

Classic fans say that the classic are supeiror.

They'd be wrong for saying that too.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

They'd be wrong for saying that too.

Okay. I will reword and say that I am a boost purist and I think the modern and boost games are way better in my opinion.

[SlickEvan]

Pet Peeve: Saying SA2 is horrible and then using the story as the only defense.

 

Yeah it's small and irrational, but it irks me. I understand the radar is less efficient, Mechs don't fly with some, and speed characters stages are a little linear. But if the story is your only defense I question your reasoning. Now if you say 'in your opinion' that'll fly. but don't just say it's horrible and down they story, most of the time, for being dark.

 

The story itself is quite well besides some plot holes which can easily be filled with logical assumptions (I know they're still plot holes :/) But Sonic act's quite like you'd expect and more (IMO) and knows when things get serious.

 

Just bugs me, is all.

[FriendBot]

Yeah to be honest, Sonic Adventure 2 is still a pretty good game still to be honest. I mean the story is pretty well written despite having a few vague plot points but it's still pretty good. It can be a bit dark-toned at times but it doesn't go too overboard, unlike 06 or Shadow, I can still see it fit in the Sonic universe and Sonic is still the positive teenager like we all know but he knows when shit gets real. I liked Sonic/Shadow's stages but there are a few stages that pisses me off to no end. *looks at Final Chase Hard Mode* I mean yeah they're not as open as Sonic's levels in Adventure 1 but I liked the action-based segments like the GUN Truck or the Missile in Metal Harbour. The treasure hunting levels, I enjoy surprisingly. I mean I liked all the levels except Mad Space, for obvious reasons, and it's kind of funny how the Hard Mode versions of the levels are easier than the Normal version. The mech stages, I also like since it's platforming but it emphasize on blowing shit up and it's a really good feeling to see all the destruction you made and getting an Awesome or Perfect combo when you do. The bosses were meh, most Character fights and GUN mech fights, to good; Sonic vs Shadow and Tails vs Eggman final, King Boom Boo, Egg Golem, to pretty damn awesome, Biolizard and FinalHazard. The music may not be as diverse as Adventure 1's but it still pretty damn good still. From Escape from the City to Mr. Unsmiley to A Ghost Pumpkin's Soup, Adventure 2's soundtrack is probably one of my favorite Sonic soundtracks. I especially liked Live and Learn since I can sort of fit the song with life in general since we need to learn from our mistakes to live life. All in all, it might not be the best 3D Sonic game but it's still pretty damn good, to me atleast.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

At least SA2 doesn't need a whole goddamned retcon in order to fix.

[Dizcrybe]

I have plenty of reasons to not like SA2 that aren't story-related at all.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I have plenty of reasons to not like SA2 that aren't story-related at all.

Oh, that's not much of a problem then.

 

If it's game mechanics and the likes, I'm pretty sure that's a lot less debatable. Forcing you to change characters every level, the treasure hunting elements being reduced to one emerald in order instead of any of the three you're closest to, clunky mech shooting stages compared to the more fluid one back in SA1.

 

Speed sections have an improvlement, but there's a lot of other problems in SA2. I like it over SA1, but I'm not going to ignore its flaws.

[SlickEvan]

Yeah it's fine if you have reasons to dislike it. It's just when people use only the story against it. It's definitely reasonable to dislike it, just don't go saying the darker story is what impaired it and not give any other reasons =p

[Delta Starfire]

Factionalism and in-fighting in the fandom. That really pisses me off. You know? The people who've got their version of Sonic and who are so entitled that they think theirs is the only true version and that it should take special precedence over all others.

 

There are many faces of Sonic, and some we like more than others. That's fine. But looking down on someone else because they like a different version better is just asinine. And expecting the entire franchise to bend towards your preferred version is entitlement of the highest (or lowest) degree. 

 

For example, once upon a time I encountered a group of people (three of them, to be precise -- that should be enough for some of you), who were absolutely convinced that the Archie Comics version of Sonic was the only legitimate version. Their reasoning was that the book was an American product and that, despite Sonic's Japanese origins, Sonic was targeted at America; therefore, the only fanbase that mattered was the American fanbase. And an American take on the character (i.e. the comics) was, therefore, the most (if not the only) legitimate interpretation there was. They believed that the games should be based on the comic, not the comic based on the games, or even that either should be its own thing. No, the comic should have absolute precedence and everything else Sonic should take its cues from that. And the flame wars that ensued when they encountered people who disagreed with them were a sight to behold.

 

Another example I recall is that, after re-watching SatAM a few years back, I went looking for a SatAM forum. Big mistake. It was peopled almost entirely by SatAM fanboys and fangirls who absolutely hated any other version of Sonic, especially the games. And they hated fans of the games too, or forums that were dedicated to Sonic in its entirety and not just The One true Version^TM  that they believed in. And, oh yes, they hated SSMB, for having a bias against SatAM and only allowing you to be on this forum if you were only a fan of the games. I know that's never been true, so I'm guessing these were butthurt flame warriors who'd been banned for causing trouble. 

 

I just don't get it. If anything, I think Sonic should be celebrated for its versatility. It can be dark and serious, but it can also be lighthearted and fun -- sometimes at the same time. But people feel this sense of entitlement to have only the version of Sonic they like ever be respected, and I find that really quite sad. On the other hand, I can understand people being concerned that the way they like Sonic is being phased out and will never return, but I think whining about that and hating other people for liking the way Sonic is right now is self-centred and juvenile. To those people, I say grow up and get over it.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Factionalism and in-fighting in the fandom. That really pisses me off. You know?

Right here is where I stopped reading just to give you a like. That pisses me off soo much.

 

What factionalism is to me is basically different parts of the fandom telling each other "Give (only) me what I want or fuck you!" It's basically self-centered jerkasses at their finest.

[Komodin]

Factionalism and in-fighting in the fandom. That really pisses me off. You know? The people who've got their version of Sonic and who are so entitled that they think theirs is the only true version and that it should take special precedence over all others.

 

Yeah, this grinds my gears, too. It's all fan dumb nonsense that only serves to make them look like overly entitled man-children.