Attitude Adjustment

[azoo]

I understand that simpler stories = simpler characterizations, but it doesn't mean you have to focus on only one part of a character's personality to make it "simpler". "More complex" doesn't equal "more interesting". Why would you make something purposely not as interesting? More interesting stuff = higher immersion with the game = more interest in continuing the game outside of gameplay. If Sega would want their game to be a lasting and enjoyable experience, then why would you dodge doing something like that?

This does branch off to a different topic altogether (pertaining to story), but in turn it does drag characterization in with it.

[Kuzu]

Yeah. I can. Because if you ask me, an admirable company wouldn't ditch the notion of trying to write a decent story with decent characters because of previous setbacks. Sega have upped the gameplay standard for sure, but as far as plots and characters, they have regressed.

Well the media, and most of the fans don't seem to agree with this notion as Colors & Generations did good regardless of how simple it was.

I understand that simpler stories = simpler characterizations, but it doesn't mean you have to focus on only one part of a character's personality to make it "simpler". "More complex" doesn't equal "more interesting". Why would you make something purposely not as interesting? More interesting stuff = higher immersion with the game = more interest in continuing the game outside of gameplay. If Sega would want their game to be a lasting and enjoyable experience, then why would you dodge doing something like that?

Its probably because they want the primary focus to be the gameplay, and have it being the main selling point....kind of like how games were back in the day.

This is basically the article right here:

http://www.nintendow....com/news/24029

“I had the feeling that the franchise had begun to take itself too seriously and the story too profound,” he said. “While I have always seen Sonic as a fun, enjoyable and laid back series. This is why we believe that Sonic Colors is just as good as the classic 2D titles.”

There from the main himself, hell they said in all of the PR's to Generations that he story wasn't going to very much involved.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Shadic Claus

[Vertekins]

Well the media, and most of the fans don't seem to agree with this notion as Colors & Generations did good regardless of how simple it was.

Really? I thought that the overwhelming consensus that whilst the story of Generations was good, it certainly fell FAR short of what it could have accomplished in the form of development and character interactions. The very notion of adhering to simplicity is what held it back because it shot down any chance of complexity in the form of character interactions.

Its probably because they want the primary focus to be the gameplay, and have it being the main selling point....kind of like how games were back in the day.

A selling point to me is a great story with great characterization because believe it or not, I play Sonic games for far more than just gameplay.

[azoo]

Well the media, and most of the fans don't seem to agree with this notion as Colors & Generations did good regardless of how simple it was.

Its probably because they want the primary focus to be the gameplay, and have it being the main selling point....kind of like how games were back in the day.

This is basically the article right here:

http://www.nintendow....com/news/24029

There from the main himself, hell they said in all of the PR's to Generations that he story wasn't going to very much involved.

Which is all related to my complaints that they can't try to have a refined everything instead of acting as if they can only focus on one thing at a time. What's so hard about making a good story, good gameplay, and everything else at the same time? It's not like the same people behind the engine and the visuals and etcetera are the same people as the scriptwriters and storywriters.

Once again, this is related to story, so I'm backing out of the debate. I've said all I can say.

[Soniman]

Wait.....people thought the story of Generations was good?

Edited March 5, 2012 by Groosenator032

[Kuzu]

Really? I thought that the overwhelming consensus that whilst the story of Generations was good, it certainly fell FAR short of what it could have accomplished in the form of development and character interactions. The very notion of adhering to simplicity is what held it back because it shot down any chance of complexity in the form of character interactions.

I'm talking about the general media whom don't seem to care about the latter, and even most fans don't really seem to care. I have yet to see a serious review deriding Colors or Generations for their stories.

A selling point to me is a great story with great characterization because believe it or not, I play Sonic games for far more than just gameplay.

Well....if more people were like you, we might get more of that.....but sadly everyone has their own preferences, and it would appear most people prefer gameplay.

Which is all related to my complaints that they can't try to have a refined everything instead of acting as if they can only focus on one thing at a time. What's so hard about making a good story, good gameplay, and everything else at the same time?

Because its not in demand, there's no sudden outcry for "MOAR STORY".

[Nepenthe]

Appealing to authority isn't a valid excuse for terrible plots under the guise of "we're making light stories like the classics had," especially when that authority is Iizuka, the very same man who is responsible for the very direction he calls "too serious" in the first place, and the same man who is responsible for Sonic 4, one of the least mechanically classic things we've had in awhile.

Neither is appeal to the majority. I have a hard time taking seriously this supposed majority of people who praise vacuous storytelling as inherently better than what we had before because "Sonic is a cartoon and shouldn't be taken seriously" on the basis of the massive cognitive dissonance of that reason alone.

[DC111]

Well the media, and most of the fans don't seem to agree with this notion as Colors & Generations did good regardless of how simple it was.

They did well because of good gameplay, because they're video games. Makes sense, and indeed gameplay should be most important. But I've actually seen more fans saying Generations' story was lacking than saying they liked it.

Its probably because they want the primary focus to be the gameplay, and have it being the main selling point....kind of like how games were back in the day.

Yeah, back in the day. But many video games nowadays are story-driven, and stories are elements of many video games just as much as they're elements of many movies. Besides, the gameplay team and the story team are separate. Focusing on gameplay shouldn't mean the story team can't focus on story. :/

There from the main himself, hell they said in all of the PR's to Generations that he story wasn't going to very much involved.

I remember this from before, and it still makes me a little sad inside. : (

[Kuzu]

Yeah, back in the day. But many video games nowadays are story-driven, and stories are elements of many video games just as much as they're elements of many movies. Besides, the gameplay team and the story team are separate. Focusing on gameplay shouldn't mean the story team can't focus on story. :/

They're probably trying to emulate Mario's success.

[sonfan1984]

Wait.....people thought the story of Generations was good?

[Kuzu]

Appealing to authority isn't a valid excuse for terrible plots under the guise of "we're making light stories like the classics had," especially when that authority is Iizuka, the very same man who is responsible for the very direction he calls "too serious" in the first place, and the same man who is responsible for Sonic 4, one of the least mechanically classic things we've had in awhile.

Neither is appeal to the majority. I have a hard time taking seriously this supposed majority of people who praise vacuous storytelling as inherently better than what we had before because "Sonic is a cartoon and shouldn't be taken seriously" on the basis of the massive cognitive dissonance of that reason alone.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Shadic Claus

[azoo]

Considering how Sonic was made specifically to be a different kind of platformer in comparison to Mario, I can't say I'm too thrilled with the franchise trying to be Mario.

[Kuzu]

Considering how Sonic was made specifically to be a different kind of platformer in comparison to Mario, I can't say I'm too thrilled with the franchise trying to be Mario.

[azoo]

Well yeah they are, but that doesn't mean much.

If Iizuka wanted the franchise to be "more like the classic games" regarding story, then he would've based the current games on an underlying story and mythos like the Japanese instruction manuals. And when the Adventure games came in they expanded the mythos while also implementing better tone and characterization.

So really, it's just excuses for not-very-expansive story and character portrayals. Although once again, we are branching off the topic, so I'll cut it out.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Azukara

[Voyant]

Well hey, we can't put Iizuka at gun point and force him to make better stories can we? Not that I don't agree with you, but I'm not terribly upset about this as other people seem to be; the plots are simpler, does that mean the series can't be good regardless?

Edited March 5, 2012 by Voy-Boy

[Kuzu]

No it can still be good....you can have a short sweet simple plot, but full of emotion and tone. Want a good example?

http://youtu.be/8FpigqfcvlM?t=11m58s

Megaman X had a better plot than Colors and atmosphere without the whole game speaking more than maybe 4 paragraph of words. Sonic colors lacked drive...and Sonic being silly didn't really help much.

Sonic Generations somewhat falls into this too.

Why...because I felt no connection with Sonic at all..he was just...there for me to play...and then put back into my case once its all over.

[sonfan1984]

Besides don't we have the comics if we want more story?

[Voyant]

I don't see how Mega Man X has a better story than Colors, but I'm terribly savvy about it myself, so I can't really argue.

Besides don't we have the comics if we want more story?

Edited March 5, 2012 by Voy-Boy

[Kuzu]

So really, it's just excuses for not-very-expansive story and character portrayals.

[azoo]

Besides don't we have the comics if we want more story?

Edited March 5, 2012 by Azukara

[DC111]

Besides don't we have the comics if we want more story?

Edited March 5, 2012 by DC111

[Kuzu]

Considering they are of a completely different canon, that's a really bad argument.

[DC111]

Does it really matter?

[Vertekins]

Does it really matter?

Edited March 5, 2012 by Verte

[azoo]

I still am not seeing what is so terribly bad or crappy about this. I mean if you're story fanatic then yeah, but my response is: Go read the comics, isn't that what they're there for? To expand on things the games don't really touch?