Attitude Adjustment

[Kuzu]

It's a professional team. They can hire the people who have resources, time, and creative freedom.

Sure, it would require working the story production team side-by-side with the game developers, but considering it's a professional production, this shouldn't be too big a stretch of the imagination to pull off, right?

But even then, Sega would have to let them do their thing instead of restricting them so much, and they would have to have the money to even hire such a team, I'm pretty sure the madworld writers are the best they could have done.

Personally, he felt most "himself" in Sonic Adventure, although there was bad writing involved.

Of course, when I say that he felt "himself", I mean that he was a generally chill dude that was mildly friendly but could be rather the impatient hot-head. He also ran around and did cool things while adventuring, occasionally letting out a corny line. And even then, his corny lines were much snappier than most of them are nowadays.

In other words, SA1 kind of set the standard for how I see Sonic's personality; and every game since then hasn't really been the same. For as "bland" as everyone says he was, I think Unleashed Sonic was the closest we've had to that personality in ages; because although he wasn't really as irritable, he was a mixture of adventurous and being very laid back. Plus, he had some lively cartooniness in his expressions that I really enjoyed, and they also integrated into his personality.

And although it wasn't anything too special on its own, his morals and principles shown in the Storybook games, when applied to his personality in SA1 & Unleashed, make an incredibly interesting character.

My problem with Sonic being laid back is that sometimes he's too laid back, as in nothing really excites him or causes him to react to anything or than "Ok, let's do it" I mean that is boring no matter how you slice it, I mean yeah Colors may have taken it a bit too far, but he's a lot more lively and reactive in there compared to almost every other game in the series. If there's a hybrid of Generations/Black Knight later down the road, I'd be satisfied with that.

I'm personally really annoyed that Knuckles was given the "hot-headed" trait over the past couple of years. Wasn't that Sonic's thing, while Knuckles was usually more calm-like (although stern and demanding)? Sonic was generally laid back and easy-going but had a bad case of impatience and a pushy temper. That helped make an interesting dynamic between the two from earlier in the series, but now because they switched traits, their interactions seem much more.. bland.

Knuckles was always the hot head, this goes as far back as his debut so its really nothing new, if anything Sonic's "hot headness" is an informed attribute that's never really come up before., I do agree its something that I'd like to see emphasized about Sonic more his impatience and general disdain for anything slow, always wanting to move and smack talk his opponents.

[azoo]

My problem with Sonic being laid back is that sometimes he's too laid back, as in nothing really excites him or causes him to react to anything or than "Ok, let's do it" I mean that is boring no matter how you slice it, I mean yeah Colors may have taken it a bit too far, but he's a lot more lively and reactive in there compared to almost every other game in the series. If there's a hybrid of Generations/Black Knight later down the road, I'd be satisfied with that.

[Kuzu]

I don't imagine Sonic would have no gusto if he was laid back; it'd be more like he gets irritated but obligated to do it if it was something not that big of a deal, but then he has lots of determination and confidence if much is at stake.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Shadic Claus

[Chaos Warp]

I think it makes sense to have Knuckles as the hothead honestly. Sonic gets irritated by various things like slowness, but I would not go so far to call him a hothead. But I could say that about Knuckles though.......

[Kuzu]

I think it makes sense to have Knuckles as the hothead honestly. Sonic gets irritated by various things like slowness, but I would not go so far to call him a hothead. But I could say that about Knuckles though.......

[azoo]

But that still doesn't change the fact that nothing gets to him, I mean how is Sonic supposed to be a character if nothing really excites him or anything? Even most the most laid back people have somethings that get them riled up, Sonic has none of that from what I've seen before really. I mean take Sonic X, Sonic didn't do shit but sit on a roof top and sleep the day away that's sounds pretty boring to watch if you ask me.

Who said nothing ever excites him?

Sonic just does things upon his own will, and thus would go out and do whatever with his normal life. Eat, mingle some, chill, travel nomadically, the like. What if Sonic is actually bothered for a change that some shenanigans happens with his friends, some random baddies show up, or Eggman is up to no good again? He may play the hero, but he has his own life going for him and tends to live off his own whim.

But that doesn't mean he wouldn't be motivated to drop what he's doing if he knows it brings the whole world in danger, because he cares about the world's freedom and well-being as much as his own; thus is why he fights Eggman time and time again. He'd be confident, snappy and badass; running, spinning and acrobatically flinging himself through danger to save his friends and the world from utter destruction.

He wouldn't be a boring character, he'd actually be pretty layered.

I never said that, just that he needs to be more excitable, not so mellow to the point of being bland, especially for a speedster.

I think it'd be a funny and unique twist for a speedster character to actually not be so (constantly) hyperactive. Kind of makes Sonic the standout amongst them.

You mean like how Shadow is now? Its kind of redundant to have two characters with the same personality. And that really doesn't go with the whole "chuckles" thing he had going on in S3&K, I'm not saying Knuckles shouldn't be serious but an aspect about him that separates him from the rest of the cast is basically his anger and lack of social skills.

I never said I liked how Shadow is portrayed nowadays, either. I feel like most, if not all, of the characters have changed from what they initially felt like, and I'm not fond of it.

I'm almost in the mood to do a write-up on all the characters and their portrayals, and how I would reboot them.. but I can't be arsed at the moment. =p

Edited March 6, 2012 by Azukara

[Kuzu]

Who said nothing ever excites him?

Sonic just does things upon his own will, and thus would go out and do whatever with his normal life. Eat, mingle some, chill, travel nomadically, the like. What if Sonic is actually bothered for a change that some shenanigans happens with his friends, some random baddies show up, or Eggman is up to no good again? He may play the hero, but he has his own life going for him and tends to live off his own whim.

But that doesn't mean he wouldn't be motivated to drop what he's doing if he knows it brings the whole world in danger, because he cares about the world's freedom and well-being as much as his own; thus is why he fights Eggman time and time again. He'd be confident, snappy and badass; running, spinning and acrobatically flinging himself through danger to save his friends and the world from utter destruction.

He wouldn't be a boring character, he'd actually be pretty layered.

All you did was just describe the most general and broad traits of a hero, which are pretty much a given for sonic and tell me nothing his personality. He does things his own way, likes to eat, mingle, and run but that tells me nothing about Sonic other than what he likes to do, I think a question you need to ask yourself is what Sonic the Character is like, instead of Sonic the Hero, believe it or not, they're two completely different things.

I think it'd be a funny and unique twist for a speedster character to actually not be so (constantly) hyperactive. Kind of makes Sonic the standout amongst them.

Not if he really doesn't have a personality to show off it doesn't.

I never said I liked how Shadow is portrayed nowadays, either. I feel like most, if not all, of the characters have changed from what they initially felt like, and I'm not fond of it.

You regret that they actually developed personality traits beyond the most generic ones?

I'm almost in the mood to do a write-up on all the characters and their portrayals, and how I would reboot them.. but I can't be arsed at the moment. =p

Why do I get the feeling you make them as one note as possible?

[azoo]

All you did was just describe the most general and broad traits of a hero, which are pretty much a given for sonic and tell me nothing his personality. He does things his own way, likes to eat, mingle, and run but that tells me nothing about Sonic other than what he likes to do, I think a question you need to ask yourself is what Sonic the Character is like, instead of Sonic the Hero, believe it or not, they're two completely different things.

Not if he really doesn't have a personality to show off it doesn't.

Okay.. I'm sorry... but what the funk are you going on about??

Where exactly did I miss referring to his personality? I thought whatever description I gave for it just before would be applicable to anything I mentioned in those two paragraphs. Yes, I focused on how he works as a hero, because you wanted to know how that works as his personality.

Do I have to write walls of incredibly descript paragraphs to explain every little aspect of how he acts just for you to listen to what I wrote? At this moment I have much more important things to do than that, but I don't see how I haven't made a good bit of his personality already clear to you.

And as for Shadow..

You regret that they actually developed personality traits beyond the most generic ones?

Are you trying to say that going back to a personality similar to SA2's Shadow is much worse than being some generic angsty anti-hero like he was for the longest time? I mean, granted, you can't even tell what Shadow is now because he doesn't have enough personality in recent games for you to even know what he's doing there.

Why do I get the feeling you make them as one note as possible?

.....

And this is where I just decide that if I continue discussion in here, it'll be after I get better responses than this. I really have no idea where you're coming from, man. I'm just completely lost on it.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Azukara

[Kuzu]

Where exactly did I miss referring to his personality? I thought whatever description I gave for it just before would be applicable to anything I mentioned in those two paragraphs. Yes, I focused on how he works as a hero, because you wanted to know how that works as his personality.

And that's BORING, I'm sorry but if that's all that constitutes to a personality for Sonic, then I'm better off trying to relate to other heroes because Like I said they're completely broad and generic, I mean honestly heroes who are determined in the face of danger is hardly anything new or interesting because we expect all heroes to be like that, hence why they're heroes and Sonic being so mellow to the point where nothing stands out about him isn't interesting either.

Are you trying to say that going back to a personality similar to SA2's Shadow is much worse than being some generic angsty anti-hero like he was for the longest time? I mean, granted, you can't even tell what Shadow is now because he doesn't have enough personality in recent games for you to even know what he's doing there.

Maybe because Shadow wasn't exactly thought out to be apart of the series after his debut? And even so that statement was referring to almost everyone else rather than just Shadow alone.

And this is where I just decide that if I continue discussion in here, it'll be after I get better responses than this. I really have no idea where you're coming from, man. I'm just completely lost on it.

I want Sonic to have a personality, and when I say personality, I mean actual quirks that make up his character instead of the most broad and generic ones, otherwise what really does separate Sonic from every other platforming protagonist out there?

[azoo]

Okay. You gave responses I could respond to. Not amazing ones, but it'll do.

And that's BORING, I'm sorry but if that's all that constitutes to a personality for Sonic, then I'm better off trying to relate to other heroes because Like I said they're completely broad and generic, I mean honestly heroes who are determined in the face of danger is hardly anything new or interesting because we expect all heroes to be like that, hence why they're heroes and Sonic being so mellow to the point where nothing stands out about him isn't interesting either.

Reread this:

Do I have to write walls of incredibly descript paragraphs to explain every little aspect of how he acts just for you to listen to what I wrote? At this moment I have much more important things to do than that, but I don't see how I haven't made a good bit of his personality already clear to you.

Maybe because Shadow wasn't exactly thought out to be apart of the series after his debut?

Then you think up something much better than what they did with him Heroes-onward. There's no more of a logical answer than that one.

And when was "amnesia" an excuse for completely retooling the exact way he acts?

And even so that statement was referring to almost everyone else rather than just Shadow alone.

Riiiiight, because you're missing a lot what I am saying. Are you also implying that everyone in SA1/2 had incredibly bland personalities?

I want Sonic to have a personality, and when I say personality, I mean actual quirks that make up his character instead of the most broad and generic ones, otherwise what really does separate Sonic from every other platforming protagonist out there?

Who said he doesn't have quirks? I mean, really. Maybe I was giving a very general outlook on the character, rather than all super-descript like I said I don't have time to do right now. You're not trying to read and comprehend what I'm saying, at this point.

Also, here's one quirk: he's laid back and lives off his own will, so in turn he's kind of snappy and such, so he's not exactly your average super active and goody-two-shoes platformer hero.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Azukara

[Kuzu]

Reread this:

I did say it was boring and generic right? And you can't sum up Sonic's character with a simple paragraph?

Then you think up something much better than what they did with him Heroes-onward. There's no more of a logical answer than that one.

They did, its called 06. For everything that was wrong with game, Shadow was honestly the only decent thing about it.

Riiiiight, because you're missing a lot what I am saying. Are you also implying that everyone in SA1/2 had incredibly bland personalities?

Compared to now, yes. Especially since everyone in that game I could honestly check off the average Shonen series.

Who said he doesn't have quirks? I mean, really. Maybe I was giving a very general outlook on the character, rather than all super-descript like I said I don't have time to do right now. You're not trying to read and comprehend what I'm saying, at this point.

Also, here's one quirk: he's laid back and lives off his own will, so in turn he's kind of snappy and such, so he's not exactly your average super active and goody-two-shoes platformer hero.

Reread this:

My problem with Sonic being laid back is that sometimes he's too laid back, as in nothing really excites him or causes him to react to anything or than "Ok, let's do it" I mean that is boring no matter how you slice it, I mean yeah Colors may have taken it a bit too far, but he's a lot more lively and reactive in there compared to almost every other game in the series. If there's a hybrid of Generations/Black Knight later down the road, I'd be satisfied with that.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Shadic Claus

[Marcello]

They did, its called 06. For everything that was wrong with game, Shadow was honestly the only decent thing about it.

Shadow was horrible in 06.

[Kuzu]

Shadow was horrible in 06.

I don't really care what you think him in there, I thought it was interesting so I'm using that as my example.

[Diogenes]

But I thought you didn't like boring and generic.

[Indigo Rush]

They did, its called 06. For everything that was wrong with game, Shadow was honestly the only decent thing about it.

Pretty much this. Sonic 2006 nullifies borderline any arguments that uses it as an example.

[Kuzu]

But I thought you didn't like boring and generic.

Ok let me be more clear: I liked the direction they were going with Shadow in 06 in how he treats being a Gun Agent, and dealing with the fact that the world is going to betray him one day.

Shadow himself was mostly downbeat and bland, happy?

[azoo]

Ok let me be more clear: I liked the direction they were going with Shadow in 06 in how he treats being a Gun Agent, and dealing with the fact that the world is going to betray him one day.

Yeah, and I liked the direction of every character from Sonic Adventure, and Shadow and Rouge in SA2. The game(s) featured some bad writing as well as some bland moments, but they had tons of potential to expand from.

I am disappointed that they chunked all that out the window come Heroes, and haven't tried bringing anyone's personalities back to how they were, minus some few games (like Unleashed, for Sonic). Am I more clear now?

[Diogenes]

I wanted to write up a thing on how I think Sonic should be.

But I realized that in spite of following the series for almost the whole of its 20 years, I don't have a clue who this guy actually is.

...

[azoo]

I wanted to write up a thing on how I think Sonic should be.

But I realized that in spite of following the series for almost the whole of its 20 years, I don't have a clue who this guy actually is.

...

If it's because of how inconsistent they've been with it, I'd understand quite clearly. =p

Still, I'd like to see your interpretation of the hedgehog, if you could even feel up to doing it. Unless you were just deciding to be cynical about it, then I'll bugger off.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Azukara

[Kuzu]

Yeah, and I liked the direction of every character from Sonic Adventure, and Shadow and Rouge in SA2. The game(s) featured some bad writing as well as some bland moments, but they had tons of potential to expand from.

I am disappointed that they chunked all that out the window come Heroes, and haven't tried bringing anyone's personalities back to how they were, minus some few games (like Unleashed, for Sonic). Am I more clear now?

Except like you said, most of them were bland and had bad writing, and potential means absolutely nothing if nothing is done with it. Ya know what let's face it, I doubt even Sega themselves know who Sonic is at this point, so I don't see how we can argue who he is. Edited March 6, 2012 by Shadic Claus

[Match]

Sonic has never had a consistent personality. The game manuals just say, "he likes chilidogs, runs fast, loves adventures, hates evil."

Soooooo it's open to interpretation.

[azoo]

Except like you said, most of them were bland and had bad writing, and potential means absolutely nothing if nothing is done with it. Ya know what let's face it, I doubt even Sega themselves know who Sonic is at this point, so I don't see how we can argue who he is.

Heh heh, right back atcha. And I mean that for 06 Shadow and Colors/Gens Sonic.

And if we can't argue who he is, then why do we have this topic? And why are you in here, then? Not trying to come off as anything, just genuinely curious.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Azukara

[Rusty Spy]

And if we can't argue who he is, then why do we have this topic? And why are you in here, then? Not trying to come off as anything, just genuinely curious.

The reason for this topic was to bring attention to Sonic's character's lukewarm reception outside the fanbase. Nobody really appreciates or even LIKES Sonic as a character. The OP was my guess as to why. The topic in general was what everyone else thought about the lack of popularity in Sonic's character and ways it could be improved (not changed; key word) but done better, conveying his personality in an appealing way.

[azoo]

The reason for this topic was to bring attention to Sonic's character's lukewarm reception outside the fanbase. Nobody really appreciates or even LIKES Sonic as a character. The OP was my guess as to why. The topic in general was what everyone else thought about the lack of popularity in Sonic's character and ways it could be improved (not changed; key word) but done better, conveying his personality in an appealing way.

Yeah. And all I did was pull in some ideas for the topic, which the arguments made become radical concepts, mixed with me doing some baitfeeding for constant back-and-forth arguing. Uncalled for on my end.

Eh, I'll leave out the front. I kind of helped drag this out too much.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Azukara

[MegaMan_EXE]

It doesn't bother me too much. I just want some characters like Tails and Knuckles to kick ass again like the Classic Era.