Sonic Unleashed and the Modern Formula

[Lightspines]

Why not? If I have a problem with something I'm just supposed to go about my business and ignore it? This is a forum dude, we talk, debate, argue that;s the entire point of a forum to begin with, no one else is complaining about me responding to them, so why are you getting so bent out of shape? If you didn't want to argue then you should've never posted here. Its as simple as that, don't post anything and think no one is going to say something about it, then get upset when someone does.

Actually, there a few others that are. You get overly aggressive and respond in a troll-like manner.

[Blue Blood]

But why? aside from more control(Which Sonic does have in Generations), what makes them so much better, the level design while a bit more open, is just as linear.

I've explained this a number of times. You're expected to more than just run forwards and use QTEs.

[HUNTER297]

But why? aside from more control(Which Sonic does have in Generations), what makes them so much better, the level design while a bit more open, is just as linear.

But what is there to explore? Exploration should be around if there's a specific goal to be explored right? If there's nothing there then its just wasted space.

No, but aside from a few tweaks in level design, and movesets, I'm not seeing too big of a difference between the two.

Why not? If I have a problem with something I'm just supposed to go about my business and ignore it? This is a forum dude, we talk, debate, argue that;s the entire point of a forum to begin with, no one else is complaining about me responding to them, so why are you getting so bent out of shape? If you didn't want to argue then you should've never posted here. Its as simple as that, don't post anything and think no one is going to say something about it, then get upset when someone does.

IT would turn into the Sega Forums basically.

Well I liked exploring classic games levels without a reason just to see if there is an item box somewhere.

I think Sonic formula should stay the same but with more exploration while other chars. Should have a certain gameplay type speciality. Examples:

Shadow and Silver-No 2D sections but have some slower 3D sections involving enemy fighting using their abilities. Gameplay relays on 3D platforming and enemy fighting (some speed sections too)

Tails and Knux: 65% 2D and rest 3D. Gameplay that focus on slow exploration (we can qdd Rouge here too)

Sonic, Amy(she can have some unique picohammer using abilities) and Blaze (maybe Espio too?): 50% 2D and 50% 3D using their abilities to get trough stages. Gameplay relays on speedy platforming (mainly) and speed sections.

Just a bunch of ideas.

And yeah we dont want to turn SSMB into SEGA forums.

[Kuzu]

Actually, there a few others that are. You get overly aggressive and respond in a troll-like manner.

How am I supposed to respond when I'm asking to present your evidence, and you're not doing so? If you don't have any evidence to support your argument, then just say so and I'll leave it alone.

I've explained this a number of times. You're expected to more than just run forwards and use QTEs.

Like? I've played both adventure games and the most you do in the Sonic/Shadow levels are: Homing attack, Light Dash, Somersault, bounce attack, and grinding, 4 out of five of those are also in Generations in addition to all of the moves it gives you as well. Edited August 30, 2011 by Shadic93

[Blue Blood]

Like? I've played both adventure games and the most you do in the Sonic/Shadow levels are: Homing attack, Light Dash, Somersault, bounce attack, and grinding, 4 out of five of those are also in Generations in addition to all of the moves it gives you as well.

Are you seriously telling me that, boost aside, you can't see a difference in the way you play SA1, SA2 and Unleashed/Generations?

[Kuzu]

Well I liked exploring classic games levels without a reason just to see if there is an item box somewhere.

I think Sonic formula should stay the same but with more exploration while other chars. Should have a certain gameplay type speciality. Examples:.

Edited August 30, 2011 by Shadic93

[Scar]

I've explained this a number of times. You're expected to more than just run forwards and use QTEs.

I can sort of see your point when it comes to SA1 and Lost World. You have to run, jump, activate switches, and line up mirrors to light your path.

The same is not true of SA1. Most of those levels require you to just run forward and jump on platforms. Except the last two stages, Final Rush and Final Chase, each with their own gimmick.

But anyway, I think that the boost doesn't need to go. Just change the level design and its usage will automatically change. The only reason you can boost near-constantly in Unleashed, is because the level design is straight forward and encourages you to go fast, that and there are rings everywhere. It is possible to obtain well over 1000 rings in a single stage. The rings power the boost and the boost attracts rings. Its self-sustaining and allows you to blitz through everything.

However, if you change the level design so that you have to do a little more platforming and work a few more level-specific gimmicks and more importantly, drastically reduce the number if speed boosters and rings in the stage, the usage of the boost will be reduced. It would no longer be possible to boost all the time.

The problem with Unleashed is the level design, not the mechanics.

[Dark Qiviut]

If you really did respect my opinion, there wouldn't be any need for you to respond to it in the first place. You don't agree with it? Great, but there's still no reason for you to respond.

Edited August 30, 2011 by Dark Qiviut

[Lightspines]

How am I supposed to respond when I'm asking to present your evidence, and you're not doing so? If you don't have any evidence to support your argument, then just say so and I'll leave it alone.

[HUNTER297]

Yes, but some characters are better suited for exploration like Tails or Knuckles, whereas Sonic's abilities are very clearly used for getting to the end as fast as possible, and maybe taking a different route to get there to two.

Edited August 30, 2011 by HUNTER297

[Nepenthe]

One thing about this format is that it's designed for very fast characters like Sonic and Shadow. There are many characters with vast ranges of speed caps, advantages, and weaknesses. Sonic, Shadow, and Metal Sonic are by far the fastest characters in the Sonic universe. No one else comes close. The Unleashed formula is almost completely exclusive. You can add a maneuver or two to the other characters, but how else are you going to have their gameplay associate closely with Sonic's and Shadow's while simultaneously make them different from one another? Having characters like Tails and Knuckles use the boost makes no sense because they don't have that ability to go up to Mach 1. The game developers will have to think about other ways to have the Unleashed formula associate with the slower characters, and it's much more difficult right now because that formula is not built for them.

[Kuzu]

I think he meant that we can make OTHER chars. Faster but using their abilities. Example: Silver can Rival Sonic and Shadow speed but only when he fly. So make him hover above ground at high speed or make Tails do the same with his tails.

But that wont change the fact that present formula is very closed and adding something will be either pointless or will make gameplay completly different.

So other chars. Would be basically reskins. I mean we should give them slower formula with either more exploration or more fighting. And those formulas should use their abilities like Shadow Chaos powers and Silver psychokinesis for fighting and Tails and Knux abililities for Exploration.

We just need to avoid alternate gameplay.

[HUNTER297]

By focusing on fighting or exploration you're already changing the style. the main point of the series is getting Point A to Point B, how you do so is what matters, for Sonic its speeding through in the coolest and most pleasing way possible, for Tails its flying and taking the high road as opposed to Sonic's speed, for Knuckles is finding new paths using your gliding, and digging skills, for Silver it can focus on different ways of using his psychokinesis.

[Kuzu]

The hardest guy here is Shadow. While Knux and Tails are obvious and Silver can use his psychokinesis to for example dynamicaly change enviroment and levitate, Shadow's abilities (aside from speed) are focusing on fighting.

I mean that he and Silver should have a bit more enemies to defeat than Sonic on their way. I am not saying that their formula should focus on it. Its still will be get from A to B as fast as you can.

Pretty much, Shadow isn't really that hard because unlike the others, he's the closest to Sonic in terms of abilities so that's not hard.

[Nepenthe]

Its not so much that the boost is bad for everyone else, but its more or less Sonic's thing, just like how he had the mach speed zones in 06 and Shadow had his vehicles and Chaos Powers both work without interfering with the other, and Shadow still has all the basics of Sonic's abilities(Homing Attack, sliding, etc.)

Well, we're looking at the maneuver's status from different angles. I see it as core to Unleashed style as, say, the rolling mechanic for classic games, a basic part of the overall repertoire. And of course it's Sonic's thing- Sonic's been the only character playable in these three games thus far, much to my chagrin. We don't really know how other characters are to be treated within it.

[HUNTER297]

Pretty much, Shadow isn't really that hard because unlike the others, he's the closest to Sonic in terms of abilities so that's not hard.

Sorry got my sentence wrong. I mean its hard to make his gameplay different from Sonic without involving fighting.

[Kuzu]

Well, we're looking at the maneuver's status from different angles. I see it as core to Unleashed style as, say, the rolling mechanic for classic games, a basic part of the overall repertoire. And of course it's Sonic's thing- Sonic's been the only character playable in these three games thus far, much to my chagrin. We don't really know how other characters are to be treated within it.

No but the boost is mainly used for going fast, while that is the main point of the series that I've been defending. Ya see Sonic's main thing is going fast, but the other characters have other abilities in addition to going fast that Sonic lacks, such as Tails` Flight, or Knuckles` Gliding/Climbing. Like I told Hunter, the main point is getting from A to B as fast as possible but how its done is what matters, for Sonic's levels should emphasize his Speed, Tails` levels should emphasize his flight, and Knuckles` levels should emphasize his Gliding & Climbing that's how it was done in S3&K, and that's how it should be in the future.

Sorry got my sentence wrong. I mean its hard to make his gameplay different from Sonic without involving fighting.

Add more stuff to blow up like you said then, but still keep the point a to point b formula the same.

[HUNTER297]

No but the boost is mainly used for going fast, while that is the main point of the series that I've been defending. Ya see Sonic's main thing is going fast, but the other characters have other abilities in addition to going fast that Sonic lacks, such as Tails` Flight, or Knuckles` Gliding/Climbing. Like I told Hunter, the main point is getting from A to B as fast as possible but how its done is what matters, for Sonic's levels should emphasize his Speed, Tails` levels should emphasize his flight, and Knuckles` levels should emphasize his Gliding & Climbing that's how it was done in S3&K, and that's how it should be in the future.

Add more stuff to blow up like you said then, but still keep the point a to point b formula the same.

Thats what I mean. Design levels in way for each char. To use his/her unique abilities. Adding more stuff to blow up in Shadow/Silver levels should do. But like you said keep it A to B formula just with more fighting for those 2 and more Platforming (speedy) for Tails and Knux.

[Nepenthe]

No but the boost is mainly used for going fast, while that is the main point of the series that I've been defending. Ya see Sonic's main thing is going fast, but the other characters have other abilities in addition to going fast that Sonic lacks, such as Tails` Flight, or Knuckles` Gliding/Climbing. Like I told Hunter, the main point is getting from A to B as fast as possible but how its done is what matters, for Sonic's levels should emphasize his Speed, Tails` levels should emphasize his flight, and Knuckles` levels should emphasize his Gliding & Climbing that's how it was done in S3&K, and that's how it should be in the future.

Add more stuff to blow up like you said then, but still keep the point a to point b formula the same.

Indeed- Characters have different abilities in addition to going fast, meaning they should still be able to go fast, meaning there is nothing inherently wrong with a boost or boost-like mechanic for them in addition to other abilities, just as there was nothing wrong with giving everyone the Spin Dash despite it ultimately being "Sonic's thing." Besides, there's always been a clear disconnect between going fast and traditional platforming, and it's in the latter that different abilities ultimately shine in the first place, not the steep inclines of the classics or the long roads of 3D games in general where the boost is most effective.

Though, the strong emphasis on other abilities in the classics is arguable considering not only that you can complete the campaign in roughly the same way Sonic does, but that flying and gliding allows you to bypass a lot of level design in the first place. This is once again why I advocate completely different levels for the characters altogether instead of just sticking them in Sonic's levels, doubly so now considering their relatively horizontal nature.

[Kuzu]

Indeed- Characters have different abilities in addition to going fast, meaning they should still be able to go fast, meaning there is nothing inherently wrong with a boost or boost-like mechanic for them in addition to other abilities, just as there was nothing wrong with giving everyone the Spin Dash despite it ultimately being "Sonic's thing." Besides, there's always been a clear disconnect between going fast and traditional platforming, and it's in the latter that different abilities ultimately shine in the first place, not the steep inclines of the classics or the long roads of 3D games in general where the boost is most effective.

Though, the strong emphasis on other abilities in the classics is arguable considering not only that you can complete the campaign in roughly the same way Sonic does, but that flying and gliding allows you to bypass a lot of level design in the first place. This is once again why I advocate completely different levels for the characters altogether instead of just sticking them in Sonic's levels, doubly so now considering their relatively horizontal nature.

Yes, but also remember that Tails & Knuckles have lost the Spin Dash ever since going into 3D, moreso in Sa1 than anything else, but yeah like you said there;s nothing inherently bad about it because like you said their abilities mostly shine in non speedy areas, but I always felt everyone should have levels where there abilities are best emphasized.

[E-25]

Yes, but also remember that Tails & Knuckles have lost the Spin Dash ever since going into 3D, moreso in Sa1 than anything else, but yeah like you said there;s nothing inherently bad about it because like you said their abilities mostly shine in non speedy areas, but I always felt everyone should have levels where there abilities are best emphasized.

You mean like how their abilities were mainly focused on in the Adventure titles? We know how well that worked out compared to having core levels that allowed everyone's abilities to shine and if you didn't want to could still take Sonic's route most of the time.

[Nepenthe]

Sonic eventually lost the Spin Dash too though while the others were being shoehorned into gameplay that didn't require any sort of rolling function anyway.

And once again, I agree that characters should get unique levels, but having a boost doesn't undermine that. At the least, it can merely be a means to an end ala Colors.

[ChikaBoing]

I think they could make the scale of complex Level Designs bigger to suit the fast Unleashed Sonic. Like take Lost World, but make Lost World plattforms, hallways and everything 5 times the size.

Edited August 30, 2011 by ChikaBoing

[Nepenthe]

That's probably what they're doing in Generations, at least somewhat.

[Kuzu]

You mean like how their abilities were mainly focused on in the Adventure titles? We know how well that worked out compared to having core levels that allowed everyone's abilities to shine and if you didn't want to could still take Sonic's route most of the time.

Apparently you didn't hear when I said agreed with the spindash not being bad.