Sonic Unleashed and the Modern Formula

[HUNTER297]

And I will just ask question:

Explain how you can add playables in current formula?

Its nearly impossible. Adventure gameplay allowed this and now I just dont know what to say. Note I like Unleashed formula but level design in Unleashed was too linear. The only stage we saw that involved almost zero boosting was City Escape.

I want just brand new formula.

[Sparky]

And I will just ask question:

Explain how you can add playables in current formula?

Its nearly impossible. Adventure gameplay allowed this and now I just dont know what to say. Note I like Unleashed formula but level design in Unleashed was too linear. The only stage we saw that involved almost zero boosting was City Escape.

I want just brand new formula.

Um... the Boost can be replaced with a Signature move for each character... Stomp can be replaced with a similar move for each character. Slide can be kept the same i guess.

[Blue Blood]

Um... the Boost can be replaced with a Signature move for each character... Stomp can be replaced with a similar move for each character. Slide can be kept the same i guess.

Thing is, the boost is key to the style of the game and level design. You can't just replace it something else and call it a day.

[Marcello]

I don't really think other characters would work that well in the Unleashed style. It's main thing is speed and going forward. You'd have to change a lot to make Tails or Knuckles work right.

[Sparky]

Thing is, the boost is key to the style of the game and level design. You can't just replace it something else and call it a day.

Other characters signature moves can work Similar to the boost.

The Unleashed style is based Off Sonic. Maybe Other characters can have completely different Gameplay styles based off them.

SEGA Wanted to Unleash Sonic's true speed. I read that on the SEGA Blogs.

[Kuzu]

God I wake up and this is still going on.

Bloody hell. You don't half make it difficult for people to want to debate. I was already driven out of this topic because you were being so aggressive, and although I totally agree it's annoying to be told to watch a video, you just don't want to explain yourself when you know the other person is going to dismiss every point. Nobody wants to debate when the response is a glorified "no but you're wrong". How many times have you listened to an opposing view in this thread and taken their interpretation on board?

I've listened to every point responded to this this thread and listen to everyone else's side of the argument, and I respectively disagreed on each point and gave reasons on why I felt differently on the subject, the only reason I got so aggressive is because if I don't, no one is going to listen. I didn't say anything nasty, I didn't curse him out, but if he makes a claim he should be ready to back it up, otherwise he shouldn't have posted it in the first place.

The Unleashed style was great when we first saw it. It was different, exciting and genuinely much more fun (and solid) than anything since SA2. Like I've said before, I still enjoy it. But without practically changing the entire formula, Generations and future games will play far too similarly. What use is the boost if the levels aren't constructed out of straight-ways, and instead have more 3D platforming? It becomes nothing but a useless special effect that won't benefit the player. Stages like Speed Highway pt1, Green Forest and Pyramid Cave all have creative, fun and very fast speed segments with 3D movement and no boost. And then, what use are tighter controls if the stages are still built like they are in Unleashed-esque games? You wouldn't actually get a chance to feel the improved control. The controls in Generations may well be tightened up a bit (haven't played it, so can't provide my opinion on this'n) but there's almost nowhere where you can see this. Green Hill is entirely straight-ways, City Escape has that one small park area, and Chemical Plant is straight-ways again.

Well mate, the entire level can't consist of platforming, because like I said, its not a Sonic game anymore, its a glorified Mario one, I'll keep on saying this too. City Escape has the park area, i addition to the 2D platforming segment, both of those areas are examples of the better control over Sonic in Generations. And Sa1, and SA2 play similarly too, and I see no one complaining about those games.

The Unleashed style to me comes down to an absolute focus on speed in 3D. In 2D, it's rather simple and uninteresting platforming. These are ever-present in Unleashed, Colours and Generations, and collectively it's what I want them to change. I'll admit that the 2D/3D switching isn't necessarily detrimental and doesn't have to be abolished like I said. However, the way it's currently used is doing no favours. It shouldn't be used as a way separating speed and platforming, but instead be used as a way of doing things that aren't possible in 2D. Likewise, the shallow 3D gameplay either works like an on-rails game (chase segments, quick step areas, grind rails) or it's not making use of the benefits of 3D.

OK, so obviously that's something that needs to be improved, not completely thrown away.

.I expected there to be trolls on here, but you're worse than what I expected. The only ones that have such an urge to battle off someone else's opinion, are the ones with low self-esteem. I suggest you look up the word "opinion" and move on.

Funny thing about opinions, other people have them too, and they may or may not conflict with yours.

[Blue Blood]

Well mate, the entire level can't consist of platforming, because like I said, its not a Sonic game anymore, its a glorified Mario one, I'll keep on saying this too. City Escape has the park area, in addition to the 2D platforming segment, both of those areas are examples of the better control over Sonic in Generations. And Sa1, and SA2 play similarly too, and I see no one complaining about those games.

SA1, SA2, '06 and all the classics are so clearly Sonic games without being anything like Mario. They're rich in creative level design and platforming, with speed and platforming all taking place at once. Like I said before, platforming extends beyond just jumping to include how you have to traverse the environment. Unleashed and Generations have you take to the stages by doing nothing but running. Everything about the games from moveset to level design to control is about moving fast and never slowing down. That is until you come to a 2D section which then plays like a glorified Mario game.

[Lightspines]

Funny thing about opinions, other people have them too, and they may or may not conflict with yours.

You're the only one that wants them to conflict. Just move on.

[HUNTER297]

Other characters signature moves can work Similar to the boost.

The Unleashed style is based Off Sonic. Maybe Other characters can have completely different Gameplay styles based off them.

SEGA Wanted to Unleash Sonic's true speed. I read that on the SEGA Blogs.

We dont want chars. To be reskins and thats the point. I would love if we could implement both Unleashed gameplay for Sonic and Adventure-like gameplay for other chars. But majority would probably disagree

[Kuzu]

SA1, SA2, '06 and all the classics are so clearly Sonic games without being anything like Mario. They're rich in creative level design and platforming, with speed and platforming all taking place at once.

And even they have their moments of automation and chase sequences, just like Unleashed has. Now while I will concede that Unleashed's level design sucked hard, I'm not going to say the same for Generations at all, because aside from Green Hill Zone, and probably only a portion of Chemical Plant, and some of the other zones we've seen, there are barely any boost hallways at all, City Escape has one sequence of constant running and that's at the truck sequence, and if you put up with it in Sa2, then why is it such a problem here?

Like I said before, platforming extends beyond just jumping to include how you have to traverse the environment. Unleashed and Generations have you take to the stages by doing nothing but running. Everything about the games from moveset to level design to control is about moving fast and never slowing down. That is until you come to a 2D section which then plays like a glorified Mario game.

Dude, you're talking as if every single level in Generations is nothing but a straight line, seriously I know it doesn't impress you at all, but saying there's nothing but running and 2D platforming is so wrong.

We dont want chars. To be reskins and thats the point. I would love if we could implement both Unleashed gameplay for Sonic and Adventure-like gameplay for other chars. But majority would probably disagree

You do know Unleashed Style is simply level design right? Which can be modified?

You're the only one that wants them to conflict. Just move on.

Because I disagree with them, if I disagree with something I'm going to say something.

[Scar]

SA1, SA2, '06 and all the classics are so clearly Sonic games without being anything like Mario. They're rich in creative level design and platforming, with speed and platforming all taking place at once. Like I said before, platforming extends beyond just jumping to include how you have to traverse the environment. Unleashed and Generations have you take to the stages by doing nothing but running. Everything about the games from moveset to level design to control is about moving fast and never slowing down. That is until you come to a 2D section which then plays like a glorified Mario game.

Sonic games have always been about moving forward, or at least in the direction of the goal-post. That much is clear and irrefutable. The problem with Sonic Unleashed, is not that the moveset is designed to allow you to keep moving forward as best as possible, but because the level design only allowed you to go forward. There was only really one direction you could go, to get to the end of the stage, which obviously was forward. Occasionally the path spilt, but again, it only went forward.

The level design was constantly pushing you forward and allowing little freedom. There was great number of speed-boosters that you could run into, which change the directionof your movement automatically. Granted, of course that sometimes it was needed to shift adequately and smoothly into a 2D perspective. However, there were times where it was completely unecessary. Players are capable of changing direction themselves.

The one thing that I have noticed in Generations, particularly in City Escape, is the fact that the number of speed boosters have been reduced drastically and no longer exist simply to nudge you in the right direction.

Unleashed and Generations have you take to the stages by doing nothing but running.

I apologize if I sound rude, here, but can I ask you to present an example of a Sonic game where you can traverse a landscape without running? Oh yeah, Shadow and 06 had vehicles, but other than that, in ever single Sonic game, running was the premier means of traversing landscapes. Unless of course, you were Knuckles or Tails, in which case you could glide or climb, but then you're not really traversing a landscape, you're traversing the air.

Sonic games have always been about moving forward, or at least in the direction of the goal-post. That much is clear and irrefutable. The problem with Sonic Unleashed, is not that the moveset is designed to allow you to keep moving forward as best as possible, but because the level design only allowed you to go forward. There was only really one direction you could go, to get to the end of the stage, which obviously was forward. Occasionally the path spilt, but again, it only went forward.

The level design was constantly pushing you forward and allowing little freedom. There was great number of speed-boosters that you could run into, which change the directionof your movement automatically. Granted, of course that sometimes it was needed to shift adequately and smoothly into a 2D perspective. However, there were times where it was completely unecessary. Players are capable of changing direction themselves.

The one thing that I have noticed in Generations, particularly in City Escape, is the fact that the number of speed boosters have been reduced drastically and no longer exist simply to nudge you in the right direction.

I apologize if I sound rude, here, but can I ask you to present an example of a Sonic game where you can traverse a landscape without running? Oh yeah, Shadow and 06 had vehicles, but other than that, in ever single Sonic game, running was the premier means of traversing landscapes. Unless of course, you were Knuckles or Tails, in which case you could glide or fly, but then you're not really traversing a landscape, you're traversing the air.

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

I apologize if I sound rude, here, but can I ask you to present an example of a Sonic game where you can traverse a landscape without running? Oh yeah, Shadow and 06 had vehicles, but other than that, in ever single Sonic game, running was the premier means of traversing landscapes. Unless of course, you were Knuckles or Tails, in which case you could glide or climb, but then you're not really traversing a landscape, you're traversing the air.

I think you misunderstood. The poster said "nothing but running," that the need to navigate the level beyond pushing forward and hitting a few buttons in a QTE is hardly there.

[Blue Blood]

I think you misunderstood. The poster said "nothing but running," that the need to navigate the level beyond pushing forward and hitting a few buttons in a QTE is hardly there.

Edited August 30, 2011 by Blue Blood

[Kuzu]

Exactly this. Running is your main form of movement and that shouldn't change. But running shouldn't even be all there is to do.

[Blue Blood]

But running isn't all there is to do, and even when you are running there's still something to do.

[Kuzu]

I'm sorry, but I don't see this. What is there outside of running and (pseudo-)QTEs

[Blue Blood]

Looking for Red Rings, finding new paths, etc.

[Lightspines]

Because I disagree with them, if I disagree with something I'm going to say something.

[Kuzu]

Red rings (and the Sun/Moon Medals) do encourage exploration, while the level design and style do not. New paths rarely extend beyond a well timed jump into a dash hoop or something to the same effect.

[Blue Blood]

And in Sa1, and Sa2 there's barely any Alt. Paths as well, you're mostly going down the same road, and hell they lack the Red Rings to even go back and explore the level.

[Legendary Emerald]

And in Sa1, and Sa2 there's barely any Alt. Paths as well, you're mostly going down the same road, and hell they lack the Red Rings to even go back and explore the level.

[Lightspines]

And in Sa1, and Sa2 there's barely any Alt. Paths as well, you're mostly going down the same road, and hell they lack the Red Rings to even go back and explore the level.

I respect your opinion, that doesn't mean I agree with it, which goes back to my previous post.

[HUNTER297]

If you really did respect my opinion, there wouldn't be any need for you to respond to it in the first place. You don't agree with it? Great, but there's still no reason for you to respond.

[Kuzu]

Red Rings and alternate paths aren't the be all and end all if the level design is still pants. SA1 and SA2 stages are more fun than anything we've had since Unleashed.

But why? aside from more control(Which Sonic does have in Generations), what makes them so much better, the level design while a bit more open, is just as linear.

[Legendary Emerald]

If you really did respect my opinion, there wouldn't be any need for you to respond to it in the first place. You don't agree with it? Great, but there's still no reason for you to respond.