Are you happy with Seaside Hill Zone?

[Ivo the Egghog]

Casino Park/Bingo Highway would of been a much better choice. Seeing the illuminated, neon casino seemingly floating above the brightly lit city below in the starry sky.

I'm just going to leave this here.

I came here to defend Seaside Hill, but... that looks so good! I would MUCH rather see Casino Park/Bingo Highway in Generations over SSH now. AND I kinda want to go buy Sonic and Sega All-Stars Racing.. it looks pretty good! But, there's not really much we can do at this point, the list is final.

Honestly though, I'm still fine with SSH. I like the music and the aesthetics, and I've got faith in this new and improved Sonic Team to give it that "Wow" factor that they seem to be including in the Generations levels. I don't really mind what the troupe is or if it's Green Hill 2.0 as long as it's fun to play.

[Old dead account]

Maybe I'd have liked to see Casino Park instead, oh well. No amount of whining can fix that now. I just hope they give it more of a Water Ruins feel than a X Hill Zone feel, and judging from the screenshots of it it looks like they will. Would also be a perfect opportunity to add a beach section there to satisfy the trope at least a little bit.

[Dark Qiviut]

Post.

Despite me being a defender, I do agree here. One thing about Seaside Hill/Ocean Palace is that it took many elements of Green Hill Zone and reimagined it with the trees, dirt, grass, and rock. At the same time, though, Sonic Team wanted to play with the environment by making the first half a beach and part two ruins from an ancient civilization, confirmed by the screenshots from the demo leak thread some time ago.

Now, despite my critiques of dissidents' (not the user, BTW ) critiques of the level, it makes sense somewhat with Seaside Hill. It's true. Seaside Hill/Ocean Palace, Act 1, is a bit plain, a Green Hill 2.0. No arguments here. I fully understand that. Of them all, SSH/OP behaves a lot like a weak link because Act 1's layout is very simple atmospherically.

Now, let me use your post to turn it to my favor, beginning with here.

I gotta say something on the matter again, even though I promised I wouldn't: Seaside Hill is not a bad zone at all. In fact, it's one of my favorite opening stages in Sonic game history, next to Emerald Hill and Emerald Coast. And it also serves as a solid representation of Sonic Hereos.

Now, despite your critique that I didn't quote here, your reasons here are exactly what Sonic Team is looking for and partially why Generations represents SH as this level. Like Green Hill, it's a great method to open up the game. But it's your last sentence here that will strike the developer's hearts. "And it also serves as a solid representation of Sonic Hereos." This is where ST HD pursued while developing Generations. "Solid representation." ST HD pursued to take the level that most fans like with each game in each era and recreate it in High-Definition. They could take any one of them and recreate them, but they were looking for the one that symbolizes Heroes in this case. Seaside Hill/Ocean Palace is the obvious choice, because that one is the most talked about and most idolized. Colorful graphics, soothing tone, the metaphoric breeze zooming past Sonic and his friends as they ran through the beach and Marble Garden-like ruins. These luscious zones are connected wholeheartedly to Sonic despite Frog Forest/Lost Jungle and Casino Park/Bingo Highway fitting in nicely, too.

As for Seaside Hill's recreation in Sonic and Sega's All-Star Racing, good point, and I understand your sentiments completely. However, I don't know about you, but my region had zero advertising of that game, and that's bad. All-Star Racing wasn't given the opportunity of attracting most because Sega didn't promote it. That meant people aren't going to know that not only Seaside Hill was recreated, but not know that ASR existed altogether, either, until they either go to the store or listen through word-of-mouth promotion. Generations has a bigger budget, and chances are it'll be advertised in some way, maybe on Price Is Right (Free Riders and M&SatO[W]G), WWE television (Unleashed), or commercials on channels like ESPN (Colors). Many of those who see it and get suckered into buying it will likely view SSH's/OP's HD recreation for the very first time.

Seaside Hill thus far is very equivalent to John Cena. The die-hards from the Internet Wrestling Community outright HATE Cena's character because they view it as repetitive; samey; and boring, while the casuals and newcomers love him and consider him a role model. John Cena helps kids, is dedicated IRL, has a lot of charisma on the microphone through his speeches and workload (despite its repetition), and helps make a lot of money for the WWE, something it needs to help retain its empire. He will never win the millions from Rock or Hogan fans, and he knows that. But he retains his routine because he knows someone out there looks up to him, and he communicates well to the casual community. Seaside Hill/Ocean Palace sticks out because of all the nominations for Generations as the Heroes representation, this one is the simplest of them all and resembles Green Hill in so many ways. Therefore, there's a love-it/hate-it/"it's-okay-but-I-would've-loved-others-better" relationship between it and some fans right now because there are many other good choices for it along with this pair. For example, Egg Fleet/Final Fortress can work beautifully in HD and possibly connect with Sky Sanctuary and its ruins in the sky, but that's another thread. Or even Casino Park/Bingo Highway to add in that casino trope that's been absent in main games for some time, excluding Episode 1. But SSH/OP works as a choice best because it's one of the most iconic in Heroes, the most talked about of all the Heroes zones prior to Generations's announcement, and casuals (a HUGE audience for this game) and fans who loved SSH/OP and yet to see it recreated in HD will see it and love it the second they come across it in its HD glory.

Of all the representations, the one for Heroes is by far the toughest for Sonic Team because they all are solid concepts that are remembered well and are liked a lot. (The only possible exception is Rail Canyon, and I love that one the most.) Suffice it to say, given the screenshots, the audience it represents, and its reception prior to SG's development, they definitely did the right thing.

Edited August 11, 2011 by Dark Qiviut

[EXshad]

Looking back, I think they could have taken a different approach to the level selection in this game: rather than just take what they considered the most iconic levels from each game, Sonic Team should have examined the predominant level tropes from the franchise and chosen iconic levels (one from each game) based on certain tropes. This way, levels would have not only represented certain games from the franchise, but also would have represented key level tropes.

They wouldn't have had to change much for this to happen. This would have been an ideal list:

-Green Hill (opening stage/lush, coast-style stage)

-Chemical Plant (industrialized factory/underwater level)

-Sky Sanctuary (sky-themed stages/ruins-based)

-Speed Highway (highway-themed level/bright, neon-lights)

-City Escape (city-themed stage)

-Mystic Mansion (haunted-themed/gravity switching based level)

-Crisis City (fire and volcanic-based level, with city elements)

-Savannah Citadel (desert/jungle oasis themed level)

-Planet Wisp (lush, green plant life/Eggman base hybrid)

Only 2 levels are changed, but I think if they went with a list that focused on balancing levels to best represent both the games they're from and famous level themes within the series, people wouldn't be complaining so much.

Edited August 11, 2011 by EXshad

[Diogenes]

Ditch Speed Highway for Twinkle Park and you've got a list that even I can't get angry about.

[EXshad]

Well, I HAD to keep the first 5 levels because those are the ones that won the popular vote in the polls. However, to my knowledge, Sonic Team was free to choose the next 4 levels, because the games they're being pulled from were absent from the polls. That's where I think Sonic Team should have been able to take some liberties and inject a bit more life in the list.

It's a shame we couldn't get something like this because, again, I just swapped out 2 measly levels and already the list looks a lot more diverse.

[Blue Blood]

Well, I HAD to keep the first 5 levels because those are the ones that won the popular vote in the polls. However, to my knowledge, Sonic Team was free to choose the next 4 levels, because the games they're being pulled from were absent from the polls. That's where I think Sonic Team should have been able to take some liberties and inject a bit more life in the list.

It's a shame we couldn't get something like this because, again, I just swapped out 2 measly levels and already the list looks a lot more diverse.

Apparently the poll went right up to '06, but I don't recall that and neither does anyone else seemingly.

[KHCast]

Looking back, I think they could have taken a different approach to the level selection in this game: rather than just take what they considered the most iconic levels from each game, Sonic Team should have examined the predominant level tropes from the franchise and chosen iconic levels (one from each game) based on certain tropes. This way, levels would have not only represented certain games from the franchise, but also would have represented key level tropes.

They wouldn't have had to change much for this to happen. This would have been an ideal list:

-Green Hill (opening stage/lush, coast-style stage)

-Chemical Plant (industrialized factory/underwater level)

-Sky Sanctuary (sky-themed stages/ruins-based)

-Speed Highway (highway-themed level/bright, neon-lights)

-City Escape (city-themed stage)

-Frog Forest (Jungle themed level)

-Kingdom valley (Castle/Ruins level, with water elements)

-Savannah Citadel (desert/jungle oasis themed level)

-Planet Wisp (lush, green plant life/Eggman base hybrid)

Only 2 levels are changed, but I think if they went with a list that focused on balancing levels to best represent both the games they're from and famous level themes within the series, people wouldn't be complaining so much.

I would have preferred those stages due to my experience with those and it like you said would have made it way more diverse. But hopefully the rumored Secret rings stage and the level dlc will make it more diverse.

[Match]

They wouldn't have had to change much for this to happen. This would have been an ideal list:

-Green Hill (opening stage/lush, coast-style stage)

-Chemical Plant (industrialized factory/underwater level)

-Sky Sanctuary (sky-themed stages/ruins-based)

-Windy Valley (Sky-based level, memorable environments)

-City Escape (city-themed stage)

-Grand Metropolis (Futuristic/ Factory-ish level)

-Kingdom Valley (Unique trope, castles, mountains)

-Rooftop Run (Italian city, fun aqueducts)

-Planet Wisp (lush, green plant life/Eggman base hybrid)

Only 2 levels are changed, but I think if they went with a list that focused on balancing levels to best represent both the games they're from and famous level themes within the series, people wouldn't be complaining so much.

Just my opinions. I love the level list, but I would find this one PERFECT.

Edited August 12, 2011 by Skips

[KHCast]

Just my opinions. I love the level list, but I would find this one PERFECT.

But we already have windy valley in M&S... although it could be nice. also I didn't know windy valley was a highway with neon lights or that RR was a dessert. You always learn something new...

Edited August 12, 2011 by Hedgehogs Boost

[Spooky Mulder]

I think the level list would benefit from just being rearranged a bit. I don't like the way we've got this block in the middle of the game where it's like CITY CITY (Green) CITY CITY. I know it would mean abandoning the whole "Classic/Dreamcast/Modern Era" thing, but things would feel more balanced as a whole. Ex:

Green Hill

City Escape

Planet Wisp

Speed Highway

Chemical Plant

Seaside Hill

Rooftop Run

Sky Sanctuary

Crisis City

[Diogenes]

Well, I HAD to keep the first 5 levels because those are the ones that won the popular vote in the polls.

[KHCast]

No you didn't. Neither you nor Sonic Team is bound by the results of that poll. The poll was research, not a binding contract.

Edited August 12, 2011 by Hedgehogs Boost

[Diogenes]

So They shouldn't have used some fan favorites?I mean that was smart in some ways.

[Spooky Mulder]

So They shouldn't have used some fan favorites?

[KHCast]

It's not like each game only has one popular stage. Just because one stage is slightly more popular than another, doesn't mean they only could use the most popular one. Speed Highway received the most votes, but they could have used the second most popular stage from Sonic Adventure in favor of diversity.

[Neon]

I think the level list would benefit from just being rearranged a bit. I don't like the way we've got this block in the middle of the game where it's like CITY CITY (Green) CITY CITY. I know it would mean abandoning the whole "Classic/Dreamcast/Modern Era" thing, but things would feel more balanced as a whole. Ex:

Green Hill

City Escape

Planet Wisp

Speed Highway

Chemical Plant

Seaside Hill

Rooftop Run

Sky Sanctuary

Crisis City

[Spooky Mulder]

While i understand what you're saying, i think that might be a bad idea. The point of the game is to go through Sonic's biggest adventures and history in the main games, chronologically. Sending him randomly into different parts of the timeline might ruin the plot's flow. It's better to go through the games chronologically to avoid unneeded confusion and bad flow. I'd say it's a lot easier for newcomers to get a better grasp of the universe.

[Vasco]

I think they went out of their way to choose the worst possible zone of the game. Shame because as a game, Heroes had so much potential. I'd have picked Bingo Highway.

[Sami]

After playing through all of Team Sonic's "story" in Heroes yesterday, I have to say it's a huge shame Mystic Mansion didn't get the pick. It was a cool looking level with some interesting ideas, and was completely filled with atmosphere. The problem? It was in a really shitty game, and the trope was only ever explored again in another really shitty game.

[HUNTER297]

The list was my dream list and I dont have any problems with it. And whe we began to care about Variety I mean Unleashed had only Cities (excluding EGGMANLAND).

For me list is varied and thanks to Seaside Hill we have 2 water levels not 1. Without it people will bitch that there is only one water level (Chemical Plant)

[Neon]

While i'm still very dissapointed with Seaside Hill's inclusion, Sonic Team can redeem themselves a bit, too, if we get Ocean Palace's music over Seaside Hill's. Ocean Palace had one of the best tracks in Heroes. Seaside Hill's music was pretty meh.

[frokenok3]

I really am very pleased with the inclusion of SSH/OC

When i first heard that ST is re-imagining old zones and i was trying to figure out what stages i'd like to see from SH my favorite is SSH/OC and Rail Canyon.

For me Green Hill and SSHill is 2 different stages with what i saw from the images.

[Spooky Mulder]

While i'm still very dissapointed with Seaside Hill's inclusion, Sonic Team can redeem themselves a bit, too, if we get Ocean Palace's music over Seaside Hill's. Ocean Palace had one of the best tracks in Heroes. Seaside Hill's music was pretty meh.

I actually prefer Seaside Hill's music. Ocean Palace is good too though.

But as far as music goes, I think it would be awesome if they remixed in Aquatic Ruin for C.Sonic the way Endless Mine got mixed into City Escape.

Edited August 12, 2011 by SpookyMulder

[EXshad]

After playing through all of Team Sonic's "story" in Heroes yesterday, I have to say it's a huge shame Mystic Mansion didn't get the pick. It was a cool looking level with some interesting ideas, and was completely filled with atmosphere. The problem? It was in a really shitty game, and the trope was only ever explored again in another really shitty game.

Not necessarily, haunted-themed levels go as far back as Sonic 2, with Mystic Cave, then in Sonic 3 with Sandopolis Act 2. Red Mountain also had some halloween-themed elements in Act 2, and Sonic Adventure 2 was needless filled with ghost elements. I could see it work as a pretty major trope in the franchise Especially if they brought back the ghosts from Sonic 3/Adventure 2.