Are you happy with Seaside Hill Zone?

[i don't like pie]

It feels weird not caring enough to get in a heated debate that goes the same way every time.

you should do it more often

[Chooch]

Uh.. Ocean Palace would have been my second ideal choice for a Sonic Heroes stage in Sonic Generations. Quite simply because it was one of very few stages in that game that were enjoyable to me. I can't stand Sonic Heroes, so if I have to be reminded of my experience playing it, I'd prefer one of the better stages.

The Seaside Hill in this game is more or less a combination of Seaside Hill and Ocean Palace and with that, I have no real problems with its inclusion. Really, it shouldn't even be called Seaside Hill looking at the screenshots.

Would I have liked to see Hang Castle / Mystic Mansion? Of course I would. Those were the best stages in the whole game to me. Would I have cared to see anything else? I'll be frank. Hell to the no.

Edited August 10, 2011 by Chooch

[Spooky Mulder]

Second, both sides are ignoring another key aspect of the debate: How one feels about the actual levels themselves. All of the Sky Sanctuary trolling that went on during the initial leaks was partly because Sky Sanctuary is many people's favorite level and they wanted to see it expanded on and remade in HD regardless of the tropes it filled. Well, I didn't want to see Sky Sanctuary. I wanted Hydrocity. That's my favorite level, and I'm disappointed not to see it given some due justice, but the moment I say that I'm told to clam up because "Sega couldn't please everybody" and "it's not about what I want" despite the fact that those some people were in many ways directly catered to by the decisions made.

This, really. SEGA couldn't please everyone completely with this game. Personally, I love SeasideHill/OceanPalace because Sonic Heroes was the first Sonic game I saved up for and bought myself and SSH was the first zone I played. People who have less of an attachment to Heroes may have prefered them to fill a trope with Heroes. The same way, I hate Crisis City, but I understand that for some people that's the greatest stage in the game.

This whole thing is so subjective and I think it's important for everyone to respect that while we may personally hate a certain stage, there's a group of fans who love it.

[Balding Spider]

"twenty years of fighting over nothing"

Hah! Well played good sir!

[Dark Qiviut]

This whole thing is so subjective and I think it's important for everyone to respect that while we may personally hate a certain stage, there's a group of fans who love it.

Absolutely. Some won't like them. Some will. But they can't take every stinkin' zone and put it into a disk. Given Sega's small gross revenue, it's very impractical. They must incorporate pieces of Sonic's history in other ways, such as level design, graphics, bosses, power-ups, and the like. Listen to the Classic remix of City Escape, and you'll hear Endless Mine from S3&K's two-player system in it. Despite Heroes's lukewarm history, levels like Seaside Hill/Ocean Palace are quite popular graphically and were extensively advertised. That warm, comforting environment helped sucker people into trying it out, and that's partially why it's selected as Heroes's representing stage.

While there isn't as much variety when putting the levels in broad categories, once you dissect them and analyze them piece by piece, then they're pretty diverse. Plus, we die-hards here aren't the only people targeted for Generations albeit being referenced extensively by the community managers. The people who don't follow the series as much as we do and those who aren't into Sonic are also in the developers' heads. We need them, the casual audience, to help expand this already great and passionate brand, and levels like Seaside Hill work because they're comforting, warm, and attractive. Altogether, I'm happy Seaside Hill is there, as well as the supposed level choices throughout.

Edited August 10, 2011 by Dark Qiviut

[Diogenes]

But they can't take every stinkin' zone and put it into a disk.

[Pawn]

Seaside Hill is an odd one. Green Hill and Chemical Plant were obvious choices, while the others all have major story links and succeed in representing the tone of their respective games. Rooftop Run was central to Unleashed, considering Spagonia was the main hub world and is also where Tails, Amy and Pickle stayed (until they moved to Shamar). Speed Highway is the closest to a representation of Station Square, where the climactic battle with Perfect Chaos takes place. Crisis City, City Escape, Planet Wisp, Sky Sanctuary... They're all epic in terms of narrative and as such makes them incredibly memorable to people. I wanted Ice Cap but I see that SS is the perfect choice to represent the floating Angel Island, the Echidna race and the story as the Death Egg is launched.

But I digress. The point is that Seaside Hill doesn't fit into this nice little rationalisation of the level list's lack of varied tropes. Egg Fleet or Final Fortress would have been great choices; not simply due to their place in the narrative (what there is of one), but they would add more variation. Although I'm not a big fan of Heroes, Hang Castle was my favourite level in it at the time of my first playthrough. However I don't find it as memorable as Seaside Hill/Ocean Palace. Maybe that's something to do with the Sega Allstars Racing game. Maybe that's why they chose it, because it's fresh in people's minds? But why no Casino Park/BINGO Highway then? Or perhaps they chose it because it best represents Heroes' overall design philosophy: going back to Sonic's roots.

Despite all this, I'll be fine with it as long as they emphasise the temple and ocean areas of the stage. The way the racing game's track led you underwater was great. I could see it being a full on water-based level.

Edited August 10, 2011 by Lungo

[Octarine]

Meh.

Seaside Hill probably wouldn't have even been my fifth choice for a level from Heroes, but I have a hard time being particularly offended by it. Its themes are redundant with Green Hill and Sky Sanctuary, but it's still a pretty-looking level with plenty of interesting new gameplay possibilities courtesy of Generations' inclusion of underwater areas. There's a lot of room for homages to other levels there, too, from Aquatic Ruin and Labyrinth (obviously) to Carnival Night or even Casino Street (depending on how the cannons work, if Classic Sonic gets them). There's even a sort of poetry to the idea of starting out the "modern" era of Sonic with a level inspired by Green Hill... maybe?

I can't say that I wouldn't have been happier to get Mystic Mansion, Casino Park or Egg Fleet, but over time I've really mellowed to the idea of seeing Seaside Hill again. It's Rooftop Run that really raises my hackles, since there are twice as many cities as there are checkered hills or ruins (and I love ruins) and it really doesn't have much that the others don't in terms of aesthetics or gameplay. It was a good level in Unleashed, absolutely, but it's really not necessary here.

[Pawn]

Meh.

Seaside Hill probably wouldn't have even been my fifth choice for a level from Heroes, but I have a hard time being particularly offended by it. Its themes are redundant with Green Hill and Sky Sanctuary, but it's still a pretty-looking level with plenty of interesting new gameplay possibilities courtesy of Generations' inclusion of underwater areas. There's a lot of room for homages to other levels there, too, from Aquatic Ruin and Labyrinth (obviously) to Carnival Night or even Casino Street (depending on how the cannons work, if Classic Sonic gets them). There's even a sort of poetry to the idea of starting out the "modern" era of Sonic with a level inspired by Green Hill... maybe?

Edited August 10, 2011 by Lungo

[Kuzu]

Actually it's the end of the Dreamcast era in this game. Crisis City starts off the modern era, which is going to be interesting considering the atmosphere of the rest of the era is pretty relaxed (despite Planet Wisp's gradual mechanisation).

[theadvisor1234]

I'm a bit peeved, unless Sonic Team can manage to make it original enough. Still, it really seems uncreative of them.

[Blue Blood]

Heroes wasn't on the Dreamcast though?

[Soniman]

Id rather see Hang Castle or Egg Fleet since those stages are actually UNIQUE and not tropes common to the series

[Kuzu]

It's a bit of a grey area, but I think Heroes is being included as part of the DC era. I'm not sure though if this is just all marketing talk and if the different eras will even be mentioned in game.

You could say that anything post-2004 counts as modern considering its 3 years after the Dreamcast died.

[Pawn]

It's a bit of a grey area, but I think Heroes is being included as part of the DC era. I'm not sure though if this is just all marketing talk and if the different eras will even be mentioned in game.

It was also a part of the same generation of consoles. I think the eras will be separated in some fashion, due to the fact that they each have their own rival and boss and that there has been some information about the eras in the demo files... Hmm, they're referred to as 'Areas' 1, 2 and 3 in the cutscene list:

You could say that anything post-2004 counts as modern considering its 3 years after the Dreamcast died.

It is odd, yeah. If I was going to separate the 3D games into eras I would personally consider the Modern era to have started with Unleashed. Sonic Team have gone with 16-bit, 128-bit and current-gen eras.

Edited August 10, 2011 by Lungo

[Blue Blood]

You could say that anything post-2004 counts as modern considering its 3 years after the Dreamcast died.

And Sonic Heroes is 2003.

It was also a part of the same generation of consoles. I think the eras will be separated in some fashion, due to the fact that they each have their own rival and boss and that there has been some information about the eras in the demo files... Hmm, they're referred to as 'Areas' 1, 2 and 3 in the cutscene list:

Oh yeah, good point. Forgot about that. Heroes is definitely lumped into that collection then.

[EXshad]

I gotta say something on the matter again, even though I promised I wouldn't: Seaside Hill is not a bad zone at all. In fact, it's one of my favorite opening stages in Sonic game history, next to Emerald Hill and Emerald Coast. And it also serves as a solid representation of Sonic Hereos. The problem I have with it is not its appearance in the game, but the fact that it's appearing guarantees that the numerous other levels in Sonic Hereos that were vastly more original, aren't based on Green Hill AND weren't already remade in HD (since Seaside Hill was in the 360/PS3 version of SASASR) won't be in the game.

Now, I know what SEGA was going for when choosing this level: they wanted the Dreamcast era to have a lush, nature-based level to contrast with the more industrial zones, to give it balance. But if that's the case, take a look at this stage:

Lost Jungle/Frog Forest would have been a great choice; it's lush, deep in the jungle, has massive vegetation to set it apart, and come on: imagine stuff like the frog rain growing massive vegetation... IN HD. Pretty epic, right?

Now, for the list as a whole, I really see why they chose each stage (as I stated here: ), and overall, I love the other stages on the list! Green Hill and Chemical Plant were obvious choices, given the iconic value they had to the franchise. Sky Sanctuary is a massive, ruins based stage in the sky with vertical progression as apposed to simply running left or right, it's one of the most unique levels in Sonic's entire history, and accurately represents Sonic 3's central environment: the floating Angel Island.

Speed Highway is a night-based, neon-lit, HIGHWAY based level, rather than a city level (until "At Dawn", anyway), and with that in mind, I think it's a solid choice; I've always wanted to see Sonic go through a big, neon-lit, futuristic type highway in HD, so we might finally be seeing that; all they have to do is downplay the city element and focus on the highway aspect and it could be great. City Escape.. well, come on, if they chose something else to represent Sonic Adventure 2, I'd be a bit concerned; it's iconic as hell, and it's a great, straight-up city stage.

Crisis City, on the other hand, is a great contrast to City Escape, because it's the same type of city, but in ruins and on fire, and with that in mind they could do a lot of interesting things with it in terms of the game's story. I think it's an excellent choice, as it's a very unique level, fusing the lava-based level elements with a city environment. It also really brings out the tone and feel of Sonic 2006, and also could possibly give Iblis an appearance in the game as the tornado that characterizes a good portion of the level. Plus, they'd need a fire level to give the fire shield some time in the limelight

Rooftop Run is another city stage (I suppose), but it's unlike any other city in the franchise's history, and has some elements of a ruins-based level as well. Plus, as I reasoned before, it had the largest town stage in Unleashed, with a lot of iconic spots, such as Big Ben and the Professor's lab. It also accurately represents Unleashed, given how the whole theme of the game was traveling to unique parts of the world, and the contrast between Rooftop Run and City Escape really shows that rather well. It also doesn't have cars, billboards, bright lights.. it's a totally different type of level.

Seaside Hill just fails to bring anything unique to the table like the other stages do, AND we've already seen it remade in HD. The whole point of this game, according to Iizuka, is to take classic, iconic stages from Sonic's history and give them brand new life in HD. Seaside Hill is simply Sonic Heroes' version of Green Hill-styled opening stage, and the fact that we're seeing that instead of Casino Park, or Frog Forest, or Hang Castle just kinda makes me sad.

Now, do I think the list is ruined because of that? God no, I think it's an excellent list, given the games they opted to pull levels from, I just think Sonic Heroes got the shaft in terms of representation. I ain't gonna BAW about it much more, but since there's a whole topic dedicated to it, I might as well bring it up. It's a water level? Chemical Plant's already doing that, and apparently the water sections play a huge roll in it. It's a ruins level? So is Sky Sanctuary. It's got lush greenery and palmtrees? So does Green Hill, the stage that inspired it.

I guess that's why I'm not a big fan of Seaside Hill's inclusion in the game, that's all.

Edited August 10, 2011 by EXshad

[Neon]

I can't really add anything else. EXshad says it all. Putting in Seaside Hill, over any other stage in Heroes was a missed opportunity at more variation. We've got Green Hill. We didn't need another one.

Edited August 10, 2011 by Neon

[KHCast]

I gotta say something on the matter again, even though I promised I wouldn't: Seaside Hill is not a bad zone at all. In fact, it's one of my favorite opening stages in Sonic game history, next to Emerald Hill and Emerald Coast. And it also serves as a solid representation of Sonic Hereos. The problem I have with it is not its appearance in the game, but the fact that it's appearing guarantees that the numerous other levels in Sonic Hereos that were vastly more original, aren't based on Green Hill AND weren't already remade in HD (since Seaside Hill was in the 360/PS3 version of SASASR) won't be in the game. Now, I know what SEGA was going for when choosing this level: they wanted the Dreamcast era to have a lush, nature-based level to contrast with the more industrial zones, to give it balance. But if that's the case, take a look at this stage:

Lost Jungle/Frog Forest would have been a great choice; it's lush, deep in the jungle, has massive vegetation to set it apart, and come on: imagine stuff like the frog rain growing massive vegetation... IN HD. Pretty epic, right? Now, for the list as a whole, I really see why they chose each stage (as I stated here: ), and overall, I love the other stages on the list! Green Hill and Chemical Plant were obvious choices, given the iconic value they had to the franchise. Sky Sanctuary is a massive, ruins based stage in the sky with vertical progression as apposed to simply running left or right, it's one of the most unique levels in Sonic's entire history, and accurately represents Sonic 3's central environment: the floating Angel Island. Speed Highway is a night-based, neon-lit, HIGHWAY based level, rather than a city level (until "At Dawn", anyway), and with that in mind, I think it's a solid choice; I've always wanted to see Sonic go through a big, neon-lit, futuristic type highway in HD, so we might finally be seeing that; all they have to do is downplay the city element and focus on the highway aspect and it could be great. City Escape.. well, come on, if they chose something else to represent Sonic Adventure 2, I'd be a bit concerned; it's iconic as hell, and it's a great, straight-up city stage. Crisis City, on the other hand, is a great contrast to City Escape, because it's the same type of city, but in ruins and on fire, and with that in mind they could do a lot of interesting things with it in terms of the game's story. I think it's an excellent choice, as it's a very unique level, fusing the lava-based level elements with a city environment. It also really brings out the tone and feel of Sonic 2006, and also could possibly give Iblis an appearance in the game as the tornado that characterizes a good portion of the level. Plus, they'd need a fire level to give the fire shield some time in the limelight Rooftop Run is another city stage (I suppose), but it's unlike any other city in the franchise's history, and has some elements of a ruins-based level as well. Plus, as I reasoned before, it had the largest town stage in Unleashed, with a lot of iconic spots, such as Big Ben and the Professor's lab. It also accurately represents Unleashed, given how the whole theme of the game was traveling to unique parts of the world, and the contrast between Rooftop Run and City Escape really shows that rather well. It also doesn't have cars, billboards, bright lights.. it's a totally different type of level. Seaside Hill just fails to bring anything unique to the table like the other stages do, AND we've already seen it remade in HD. The whole point of this game, according to Iizuka, is to take classic, iconic stages from Sonic's history and give them brand new life in HD. Seaside Hill is simply Sonic Heroes' version of Green Hill-styled opening stage, and the fact that we're seeing that instead of Casino Park, or Frog Forest, or Hang Castle just kinda makes me sad. Now, do I think the list is ruined because of that? God no, I think it's an excellent list, given the games they opted to pull levels from, I just think Sonic Heroes got the shaft in terms of representation. I ain't gonna BAW about it much more, but since there's a whole topic dedicated to it, I might as well bring it up. It's a water level? Chemical Plant's already doing that, and apparently the water sections play a huge roll in it. It's a ruins level? So is Sky Sanctuary. It's got lush greenery and palmtrees? So does Green Hill, the stage that inspired it. I guess that's why I'm not a big fan of Seaside Hill's inclusion in the game, that's all.

Edited August 10, 2011 by Hedgehogs Boost

[Strickerx5]

Though I am a bit disappointed at the choice to bring in seaside hill I can't really say I was all that surprised. I mean the first level I think of when heroes comes to mind is seaside hill. Sega, obviously in the same frame of mind, must of thought that seaside hill would of been the best way to represent the game itself as it has in the past (looks at mario and sonic at the winter olympics). I personally would of loved to see egg fleet in the level list but I still think that seaside hill has enough content to bring something different in terms of gameplay to the table and not just be a ghz look alike.

[YoshiUnity]

Giving my two cents in this, I was a bit bothered with the troupe's being similar more than anything at first. Seaside Hill kind of added fuel to that fire, but now, I can't say that the selections brother me anymore. Must have been a first impression or something, because I can't really see how that matters. (Unless they were flat-out cookie cutter of each other, or if they function exactly the same depending on whatever troupes they share.) They will all feel different in some sort of way, and I'm sure Sonic Team will add a few bits an pieces to help them differ a bit more.

As for Seaside Hill in general. Meh. I don't love/hate it, but I'll take it. Honestly, I was more bothered by Chemical Plant Zone making the cut. It's not like I think that it doesn't deserve a spot, I just don't give two shits about the original level. (And yes, it is scorching here in hell thank you very much. You're welcome and visit anytime. ...Also, I wanted Oil Ocean Zone as the Sonic 2 rep, but I can deal with that...) Even with that opinion, I'm loving the updates for that level. Which is why I'm playing the waiting game until the rest are revealed, including Seaside Hill.

True, its basically a Green Hill Zone level, but it's not like it's an carbon copy. And with it being a Sonic Heroes rep, some things are bound to change what with moveset and game mechanics. For all I know, they could have added something like an underwater section, more interactivity with the ruins or something new that I can't think of. This doesn't really sound that farfetched since there are a couple of starter levels in Sonic Generations, so I do expect them to add more and change a few things to add challenge. And with this game being about Modern Sonic and Classic Sonic, something COMPLETELY new and different will be there for at least one of them.

As I stated, I'm not bothered by how similar the troupes are. I just want the level redesigns to be memorable and to feel like a different experience each time. Rooftop Run, Crisis City, City Escape or Speed Highway may have all been cities, but along with the usual Sonic bells and whistles, but that's all they had in common. They are still different levels from different Sonic games, and are enjoyed by people. If Sonic Team updates them correctly, I don't see how it can be any less worthy of an 20th anniversary title.

Edited August 11, 2011 by Sherlock YoshiUnity

[DaN]

I have to say I'm very excited to see seaside hill. But only if they put a lot of water and beach sections, as well as the iconic white/red architeture.

[Xenos]

Honestly I lurve Seaside Hill, but it was a crappy stage choice when we've already seen it in HD, and the fact that Heroes as many other, more rewarding stages. It IS easy to see why people are unhappy about it's decision, it's a Green Hill 2.0, but I'm sure in light of that, Sonic Team will make it feel so different and fresh, we probably won't see it for it's glaring similarities.

[XavierRussell]

While something better could've been pulled from Heroes, I'm still plenty excited for what they can do with that stage.

[Your Vest Friend]

I'm okay with it. Even though I'd have been happy with any Heroes stage, Seaside Hill was bound to be the one chosen due to how much SEGA see it as an iconic stage (See: Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games, Sonic and SEGA All Stars Racing).

Besides, it gives me an excuse to lobby for a Giant Enemy Hermit Crab.