Sonic Generations : General Hacking Thread

[Raging Raven]

Indeed. They have to fix that..

There is really no point to do it like that but just annoy us.

[EXshad]

GUYS GUYS OMG RELAX! I'M AT MY HOUSE IN MY ROOM PLA *ceases from random obscure joke nobody will get*

Ok so I found a way to unlock the Ps3 demo again and made another video showing more stuff like glitches, Classic in Modern, Rank animations, the works. Does that count as relevant to this topic name?

Edited July 31, 2011 by EXshad

[KrazyBean]

OR you could just finish the level without having done a perfect run. Not to mention there's a "play again" option after beating a level and using that doesn't penalize you of your S-Rank. So in a way, if your aiming for a tough S-Rank, they're forcing you to finish the level even if you screw up and therefore you actually get more practice with the stage in.

[Sami]

Not getting an S rank is extremely stupid. Like, even more stupid than losing a life every time you restart.

[Ultra Gizmo 64]

Makes sense to me.

[SegaTidbits]

I'm just laughing at the people saying "DERP, WHY CAN'T WE RHESTART TO GET AN S RANK? OMG SEGA FIX NOW!!!" Wow... I see this as a MAJOR improvement. You don't know the COUNTLESS number of times that I've pressed that restart button just for an S rank, Y'see, in my opinion, S ranks are there for replay ability and having that that option just makes it WAY to easy to get an S rank on the first time.

I bet this reply is going to get LOADS of negative votes by those very same people that are complaining...

[Ultra Gizmo 64]

Lol your getting + rep.

[Voyant]

I'm just laughing at the people saying "DERP, WHY CAN'T WE RHESTART TO GET AN S RANK? OMG SEGA FIX NOW!!!" Wow... I see this as a MAJOR improvement. You don't know the COUNTLESS number of times that I've pressed that restart button just for an S rank, Y'see, in my opinion, S ranks are there for replay ability and having that that option just makes it WAY to easy to get an S rank on the first time.

I bet this reply is going to get LOADS of negative votes by those very same people that are complaining...

I actually agree with this...like a lot.

What made the old games have such great replay value is that you couldn't just select a level and master it. You had to start the game over and try again from the beginning if you mess up. You were either forced to just go through the level with said mistake while you reminded yourself never to make that mistake again your next play through.

S ranks should be earned with complete utter mastery of a level, restarting is just a quick shortcut and requires you to have much less focus. Getting S ranks like this will make you REALLY feel like you deserved those Ss baby. When you get S ranks people will know your a badass. Generations is reminding me more and more of Sonic 2 as I hear how its structured.

I remembered when I did my first perfect run of Sonic 2 with no deaths or hits...I felt like I was king of the world at the time.

Edited July 31, 2011 by Voyant

[Sami]

I'm just laughing at the people saying "DERP, WHY CAN'T WE RHESTART TO GET AN S RANK? OMG SEGA FIX NOW!!!" Wow... I see this as a MAJOR improvement. You don't know the COUNTLESS number of times that I've pressed that restart button just for an S rank, Y'see, in my opinion, S ranks are there for replay ability and having that that option just makes it WAY to easy to get an S rank on the first time.

I bet this reply is going to get LOADS of negative votes by those very same people that are complaining...

Hey asshole, it isn't necessary to make everyone who disagrees with you seem like a total idiot. Especially when your own sentence structure is so shitty I can barely understand what you're trying to say.

S Ranking is difficult. That's why actually getting an S rank is a ton of fun. I've spent hours on end memorizing every level in Unleashed so I could get through them without ever getting hit or stopping to achieve the perfect rank. If I make one tiny mistake, even at the very end of the level, I restart and go back to the beginning. It's fun because it's quick and easy. Make a mistake, push a button, try again. Rinse and repeat until perfection is achieved.

This, on the other hand, forces me to go back to the menu every single time I make a mistake, waiting for at least two loading screens before getting to play the level again. It's annoying. And before anyone says "Well you should restart over and over until you can beat it perfectly, then play it again for the S Rank", I need to point out that perfecting a level is difficult, and the chances of a perfect run aren't very high. The chances are even lower when you have to do it twice in a row. This bullshit just makes it needlessly annoying.

Edit:

What's with people acting like this makes it more like the classics? All it does is make you have to go through some menus before restarting. :/

Edited July 31, 2011 by Dissident

[ChikaBoing]

Actually doesn't it make more tedious? Instead of "Restart" you hit "Quit" and go through the Level Select Screen again.

[SegaTidbits]

I actually agree with this...like a lot.

What made the old games have such great replay value is that you couldn't just select a level and master it. You had to start the game over and try again from the beginning if you mess up. You were either forced to just go through the level with said mistake while you reminded yourself never to make that mistake again your next play through.

S ranks should be earned with complete utter mastery of a level, restarting is just a quick shortcut and requires you to have much less focus. Getting S ranks like this will make you REALLY feel like you deserved those Ss baby. When you get S ranks people will know your a badass. Generations is reminding me more and more of Sonic 2 as I hear how its structured.

I remembered when I did my first perfect run of Sonic 2 with no deaths or hits...I felt like I was king of the world at the time.

That's exactly my point!

[EXshad]

Actually doesn't it make more tedious? Instead of "Restart" you hit "Quit" and go through the Level Select Screen again.

Not necessarily, if you wanna go to the start of the level instead of a checkpoint in case you missed an item, or something. I personally like it, given how reliant I've personally gotten on the life system, and based on how this ranking system works. It ups the challenge factor a bit.

[Tatsumaki]

That idea is GENIUS, if you ask me.

I got Unleashed two days ago, if I'm not mistaken, and I started to do my run in Holaska.

I did... SO, many restarts. I could barely enjoy the level in its entirety. But now, by penalizing people by making them not get an S rank by restarting, it's obviously going to be harder to S Rank. Meaning, we'll all try to do our hardest to make a perfect run, of which we'll probably need to replay dozens of times so we can learn the level's layout. It's fantastic level and Rank System design. I love it.

After all, Replayability is what matters, right?

Edited July 31, 2011 by Tatsumaki

[Voyant]

What's with people acting like this makes it more like the classics? All it does is make you have to go through some menus before restarting. :/

I understand the other side of the argument, but without sounding rude like the other guy, I agree with what he trying to say. Plus you can just replay the stage once you finish it.

It might seem like a design flaw, but I don't think it is. You can still practice over and over again and get an A rank, but true perfection is awarded with an S rank when you take no shortcuts. I like that.

"Get it right the first time or bust." It will allow the player to be a lot more focused on his speeds runs and will ultimately increase replay value buy a big sum. If you mess up replay the stage till you reached perfection, get to the end of the level,"Try Again", execute perfection...and bam S rank.

***

The reason why people compare to the classics is because if you messed up at Hill Top Zone and you ran out of lives you had to start ALL the way from the start. There was no rankings in the past just scoring though...the fact that you cann still hit replay is enough of a shortcut for practice. Imagine if Generations was set up like Sonic 2/Sonic 3&K....as a fellow perfectionist like yourself THAT would be pretty annoying, but it would still be a really true challenge of our skills as Sonic Speed Runners.

Edited July 31, 2011 by Voyant

[Boo.]

Hey asshole, it isn't necessary to make everyone who disagrees with you seem like a total idiot. Especially when your own sentence structure is so shitty I can barely understand what you're trying to say.

S Ranking is difficult. That's why actually getting an S rank is a ton of fun. I've spent hours on end memorizing every level in Unleashed so I could get through them without ever getting hit or stopping to achieve the perfect rank. If I make one tiny mistake, even at the very end of the level, I restart and go back to the beginning. It's fun because it's quick and easy. Make a mistake, push a button, try again. Rinse and repeat until perfection is achieved.

This, on the other hand, forces me to go back to the menu every single time I make a mistake, waiting for at least two loading screens before getting to play the level again. It's annoying. And before anyone says "Well you should restart over and over until you can beat it perfectly, then play it again for the S Rank", I need to point out that perfecting a level is difficult, and the chances of a perfect run aren't very high. The chances are even lower when you have to do it twice in a row. This bullshit just makes it needlessly annoying.

Edit:

What's with people acting like this makes it more like the classics? All it does is make you have to go through some menus before restarting. :/

Man... there's no need for name calling dude! Also the whole point of this is to not restart PERIOD! Not just go through some menus to restart! Any way there's that play again button at the end of the level for you to get an S rank! What's all this bitching about?! o_0

[Sami]

Man... there's no need for name calling dude! Also the whole point of this is to not restart PERIOD! Not just go through some menus to restart! Any way there's that play again button at the end of the level for you to get an S rank! What's all this bitching about?! o_0

Because if I make a mistake at the beginning of the level, I shouldn't be forced to choose between playing until the end before trying again or going through a menu for no reason.

[Ultra Gizmo 64]

There is no need to argue about this is there?

Edited July 31, 2011 by Ultra Gizmo 64

[SegaTidbits]

Man... there's no need for name calling dude! Also the whole point of this is to not restart PERIOD! Not just go through some menus to restart! Any way there's that play again button at the end of the level for you to get an S rank! What's all this bitching about?! o_0

Wow... I think you just proved those people wrong...

Anyway this is to Dissident, I'm kinda sorry about what I said earlier, I was kind of a douchebag, I guess?? I mean, I guess it's alright to have an opinion...

Let's just stop this feuding now, okay? It's just a game about blue anthropomorphic hedgehog any way.

Edited July 31, 2011 by SegaTidbits

[Voyant]

Man you must suck at the games then.

There is no need to call names.

What your're arguing about is stupid.

1. While I disagree with Diss, I can understand where he is coming from. Learn some humility.

2. Diss doesn't deserve such blatant rude as fuck comments...keep this shit up and we are going to have a problem.

Just sayin'

Although Diss you could be a tad less aggressive about it. (unless its truly a defining factor in enjoying the game for you)

Edited July 31, 2011 by Voyant

[Sami]

1. While I disagree with Diss, I can understand where he is coming from. Learn some humility.

2. Diss doesn't deserve such blatant rude as fuck comments...keep this shit up and we are going to have a problem.

Just sayin'

Thank you very, very much for this.

Although Diss you could be a tad less aggressive about it. (unless its truly a defining factor in enjoying the game for you)

It is. I wouldn't have put nearly as many hours as I did into Unleashed if I didn't spend so long perfecting the levels.

[Voyant]

It is. I wouldn't have put nearly as many hours as I did into Unleashed if I didn't spend so long perfecting the levels.

True true, but its not like you CAN'T restart the levels and practice over and over again. Personally I don't think a practice session deserves an S Rank. An S rank should be deserved when you do it the first time...with no deaths/restarts.

Also this isn't really directly hurting speed runs. There are plenty of Unleashed Speed runs with incredible times that sill get A ranks.

Edited July 31, 2011 by Voyant

[Jacktheinfinite101]

Wow. Gone for a few hours and a flame war starts. Tsk Tsk

Ok here's what I'm gonna say. There have been times were I just pop in a Sonic game to have fun in the first level, but when I make a single, mistake, I get the urge to hit the restart, then I make another mistake and restart, another mistake and restart, another mistake and restart. When I finally beat the level, I realize that I wasted 10 minutes playing a 2 minute level and because I restarted so much, I didn't even have as much fun as I wanted to.

When I play Sonic Adventure, if I screw up, I usually hit the restart button and then remember that restarting just takes me to the previous checkpoint, so I stop restarting and have much more fun.

When I play the classics, if I screw up, I just have to deal with it. The only times I've restarted were on versions that had save states and I only used them for the special stages. Other than that, if I messed up or missed a shortcut, I just kept going and, well I had A LOT of fun with the classics.

Then only a while ago I realized, I was enjoying things less because of the restart option, my desire to get a perfect score was ruining my fun. It's a lot like people who play online multiplayer games and get so obsessed with ranking up, they forget that the point of the game is just to have fun. I see out perfectionist desires as a prison that keeps us from completely enjoying our experiences. SEGA has tried to help us avoid that imprisonment by taking away lives when we restart, but that can only help so. In most Sonic games, I have 99 lives so it doesn't work on me. That's where the S-Rank revocation comes in.

When I play Generations, if I screw up, I do one of two things. I either quit out the level and go through the long loading screen or I do what I did in the classics, suck it up and finish the level anyway. Often I am surprised to see that I got an S-Rank anyway when I do the latter and I got it with more enjoyment than if I had restarted 1000 times.

Restarting does have it's purposes, such as when were trying to perfect a level, but the S-Rank revocation doesn't hinder that purpose. You can still master the level through restarting, then do a master run from scratch earning an S-Rank. What this new feature does do is it breaks our addiction to S-Ranks. Whenever I play a level even if I S-Ranked it already, I feel the need to always S-Rank it every time after that. This new change is designed to break that addiction. Now when I play a Generations level I can say to myself "Eh, who cares it's just a rank." When you think about it, they're like grades, they don't really reflect your intelligence, just like ranks don't really reflect your skill.

So anyway that was my take on Ranks and restarting.

[Sami]

There have been times were I just pop in a Sonic game to have fun in the first level, but when I make a single, mistake, I get the urge to hit the restart, then I make another mistake and restart, another mistake and restart, another mistake and restart. When I finally beat the level, I realize that I wasted 10 minutes playing a 2 minute level and because I restarted so much, I didn't even have as much fun as I wanted to.

It's the opposite for me. When I look at the clock and realize I've been playing for much longer than I thought, I think to myself "Holy shit this game is addicting" and move on the the next level.

This is of course after the huge rush of satisfaction and happiness I get from finishing the level that makes it all worth it.

[Jacktheinfinite101]

It's the opposite for me. When I look at the clock and realize I've been playing for much longer than I thought, I think to myself "Holy shit this game is addicting" and move on the the next level.

This is of course after the huge rush of satisfaction and happiness I get from finishing the level that makes it all worth it.

I get that feeling too, but not when I've been spending all that time playing the exact same level. That "Holy Shit this game is addicting" feeling comes when I've been progressing through the game and it has only felt like and hour and five hours have passed, not when I'm on a level compulsively restarting because I can't live with myself unless I do it perfectly.

Honestly, I only get that huge rush of satisfaction for beating a level, if the level was really challenging. Eggmanland for instance, I was on top of the world when I beat that level, same when I finally S-Ranked it, but see you can't get that exact same satisfaction more than once. I mean, I might be satisfied when I beat Eggmanland again but it's like "Oh I've already done that before." Sort of like when someone tries to surprise you with the same birthday gift they gave you last year.

In most Sonic levels, the satisfaction comes not from finishing the level, but the actual experience of going through it, that type of satisfaction my not be as potent as the "I finally beat it" satisfaction, but it can be experienced over and over again. If I went to Spagonia, I would still enjoy playing the level. If I beat the whole Sonic Unleashed again, it wouldn't really do much for me because I already beat it.

[Legendary Emerald]

ALRIGHT, HERE'S THE DEAL ABOUT THE S-RANKING!

There is no reason there should be ANY arguing about this matter! I'm going to explain this nice and slow for you all, by showing both side's views.

People who want to be able to restart and get S rank: "It makes it very fast to start over, so that we can try again really fast. This is fun and addictive for us, and helps us to perfect our game. Taking away our ability to restart and get the highest score makes us jump through unnecessary hurdles (such as completing the entire level or going through multiple menu screens) before we can give it another shot.

People who don't want to be able to restart and get S rank: "Not being able to restart and get S rank makes it more like the classic games, which didn't have the some conveniences we have today. If you could restart and get S rank, we might not be able to withhold our overwhelming urge to play the game we spent 60 dollars on until we master it."

Do you see? Do you see how messed up the second group of people are? They don't HAVE to use the restart function if they don't want to, low self-control aside. Only one group can be harmed here, and that is group 1. If anyone from group 2 is adamant about having the no restart feature in, they are saying that they care nothing about the gaming experience of others, even when the feature in question will not effect them if they don't use it.

Truthfully, I'm not someone who restarts levels to get higher scores. But I sympathize with the people who might get royally fucked over by this game mechanic. Meanwhile, the people asking for a more "classic" experience have nothing to lose but their own selfish, egotistic desire to think their S rank is somehow better than someone else's just because they can spend the time to play an entire level over and over again from beginning to end and get S ranks without restarting.

Seriously, this argument is DONE as far as I'm concerned. Sorry if I've offended anyone with my strong language.

Edited July 31, 2011 by Legendary Emerald