General Nintendo sales/business discussion topic (previously: The Wii U Thread)

[MegasonicZX]

Ghost Trick and Ace Attorney. 

Ahhhh, now I see, yeah I never played those two so I didn't know. I think the microtransaction thing could work well though so long as you can just buy the whole game from the start, it could be useful for those who would probably buy a game digitally but not really like it much so they don't have to have bought the whole thing and if they do like it, they can pay the full price reduced by however many of the other parts of it they bought.

[Sami]

It tends to depend on what sort of game you're thinking to apply to this procedure.

 

Duh. And it works perfectly fine for platformers. What's your point here?

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Duh. And it works perfectly fine for platformers. What's your point here?

Platformers tend to be games best not having their pace and fundamentals potentially broken by pay-to-proceed transactions.

[Willsy]

Ha right! What state is Capcom currently in? Seriously, leave micro-transactions out of my platformers.

Sonic Jump says hi. Or should I say, "high".......k I'll Stahp.

[Junko]

Duh. And it works perfectly fine for platformers. What's your point here?

What platformers have attempted this though? AA is a visual novel, and Ghost Trick appears to be similar.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Sonic Jump says hi. Or should I say, "high".......k I'll Stahp.

Errr. Sonic Jump is more of an arcade game than a straight up legit platformer. Not to mention it doesn't really have the story integration or premise presence that more traditional platformers have with them.

[Sami]

What platformers have attempted this though? AA is a visual novel, and Ghost Trick appears to be similar.

 

 

Platformers tend to be games best not having their pace and fundamentals potentially broken by pay-to-proceed transactions.

 

Tons of platformers have their flow broken by arbitrary collectibles anyway. Mario 64, and Sonic Unleashed/Generations for instance. I don't see why adding in a "pay to proceed" window on top of that is bad design when the flow has already been broken regardless and you're not actually paying more than you would buying it at retail. Paying a fee literally takes less than a minute.

[VO.SUPER]

Ghost Trick and Ace Attorney. 

 

Those are chapters with self contained stories in them. A platformer world is not designed like that. It's a natural progression of an adventure as a whole with a big end goal in sight in finishing the game.

 

 

Tons of platformers have their flow broken by arbitrary collectibles anyway. Mario 64, and Sonic Unleashed/Generations for instance. I don't see why adding in a "pay to proceed" window on top of that is bad design when the flow has already been broken regardless and you're not actually paying more than you would buying it at retail. Paying a fee literally takes less than a minute.

 

Because those collectables are still part of a bigger picture. They are designed as a part of a whole adventure, and are not meant to be satisfying conclusions to their own right. 

 

Say if you go to Bob-Omb Battlefield and you have to buy the next mission after the first star, that's no conclusion. That's withholding content.

[Sami]

Those are chapters with self contained stories in them. A platformer world is not designed like that. It's a natural progression of an adventure as a whole with a big end goal in sight in finishing the game.

 

 

How is this any different?

[Junko]

Tons of platformers have their flow broken by arbitrary collectibles anyway. Mario 64, and Sonic Unleashed/Generations for instance. I don't see why adding in a "pay to proceed" window on top of that is bad design when the flow has already been broken regardless and you're not actually paying more than you would buying it at retail. Paying a fee literally takes less than a minute.

Arbitrary collectibles, such as..?

[VO.SUPER]

 

How is this any different?

 

It's all part of the bigger adventure. The bosses and stages all naturally progress in a way that feels organic and fluid. It's not an independent adventure that is radically different from the next with incredibly surprising twists. To have to pay for what would be something so similar is just taking a hostage.

[Sami]

Arbitrary collectibles, such as..?

 

"Collect x Stars to proceed"

"Collect x Sun Medals to proceed"

"Beat x Side Missions to proceed"

 

Just looking at the fundamental design of these games, I can't see how a pay barrier would be detrimental to the "flow". There are tons of places in these games that encourage (or force) you to stop before continuing on.

 

 

It's all part of the bigger adventure. The bosses and stages all naturally progress in a way that feels organic and fluid. It's not an independent adventure that is radically different from the next with incredibly surprising twists. To have to pay for what would be something so similar is just taking a hostage.

 

... What? The way you guys are talking about it makes it seem like this is a Naughty-Dog esque game with no load times and constant forward motion suddenly being paused to demand a fee. These games already, by design, have points in which they stop the player from continuing forward, even if it's something as simple a warp pipe to the next world. How is a one minute pause to pay a fee at the warp pipe detrimental to the game's design when the game is segregated into chunks regardless?

[Junko]

"Collect x Stars to proceed"

"Collect x Sun Medals to proceed"

"Beat x Side Missions to proceed"

 

Just looking at the fundamental design of these games, I can't see how a pay barrier would be detrimental to the "flow". There are tons of places in these games that encourage (or force) you to stop before continuing on.

But all of those (aside from Gens) come easily through natural progression of the game. Hitting a pay barrier, IMO, does hurt the flow, I often use the statement "One more level/world" which I can do freely, not with a pay barrier I can't.

[Candescence]

Actually, I'm gonna have to side with Discord on this one, because that same logic also applies to Ghost Trick, as it's one big interconnected adventure, and it works fine. I don't see it not working for platformers - just split the game into reasonable portions, let the player pay as they want or pay for the whole lot up-front, and have the first world/level be free. That's pretty much how Ghost Trick did it.

[azoo]

The way you're able to actually put down "experiencing an adventure and unlocking secrets" on the same level as a game breaking both the fourth wall and the suspension of disbelief by telling you to buy the next part of the game..

 

 

And yes, even whenever you're not buying the whole game is it dumb. Because not buying a whole game is a dumb investment.

 

Microtransactions in most games are just bad ideas in general. They're not even good in the games they're currently in! You should really get everything that's supposed to come with a game as a whole purchase instead of buying in pieces. Seriously, why is that even a thought? For business effeciency? I get Nintendo needing to up their game, but this is not how.

 

Seriously, what makes you think this is even partially a good idea besides being a decent business practice? If we look so far into what works from a business perspective that it altogether removes the goodwill and soul of the game, what's the point?

 

That is unless you build a whole game around it to where it doesn't interfere with what you expect. Making a platformer though? lol.

[Sami]

But all of those (aside from Gens) come easily through natural progression of the game. Hitting a pay barrier, IMO, does hurt the flow, I often use the statement "One more level/world" which I can do freely, not with a pay barrier I can't.

 

Yeah you can? Clearly, since you're buying these games already, you have no issue paying $40 up front. Why would an added option of "pay as you go" make this any different?

The way you're able to actually put down "experiencing an adventure and unlocking secrets" on the same level as a game breaking both the fourth wall and the suspension of disbelief by telling you to buy the next part of the game..

 

 

And yes, even whenever you're not buying the whole game is it dumb. Because not buying a whole game is a dumb investment.

 

Microtransactions in most games are just bad ideas in general. They're not even good in the games they're currently in! You should really get everything that's supposed to come with a game as a whole purchase instead of buying in pieces. Seriously, why is that even a thought? For business effeciency? I get Nintendo needing to up their game, but this is not how.

 

Seriously, what makes you think this is even partially a good idea besides being a decent business practice? If we look so far into what works from a business perspective that it altogether removes the goodwill and soul of the game, what's the point?

 

I don't see how platformers are this holy grail of smooth progression and immersion. I play Sonic Generations, and I get stopped dead in my tracks and told to go get some keys before continuing. If this is a game I have downloaded for free, I don't see how a "pay $5 to continue" menu is detrimental to the game's flow and design when this stop-gap has already been implemented through other means.

 

I played Ace Attorney, Ghost Trick, and Theatrhythm with this kind of format. It works just fine, and in some cases (like the aforementioned Theatrhythm) is preferable.

[PSI Wind]

If I could pay my way through Mario 3D World's Green Star Collecting and Stamp Collecting to unlock Champion's Road quicker, then where's the feel of satisfactory in getting that difficult Green Star? Or finding that hidden stamp? Microtransactions leave you feel empty when you use it to get past something that you should do with your own skill. I shouldn't have to pay for extra balloons in Donkey Kong Country with real money, I should be able to either learn the level or grind on Banana Coins.

I'll just let Jerma do the talking for me on things like in-game transactions:

[azoo]

Yeah you can? Clearly, since you're buying these games already, you have no issue paying $40 up front. Why would an added option of "pay as you go" make this any different?

 

I don't see how platformers are this holy grail of smooth progression and immersion. I play Sonic Generations, and I get stopped dead in my tracks and told to go get some keys before continuing. If this is a game I have downloaded for free, I don't see how a "pay $5 to continue" menu is detrimental to the game's flow and design when this stop-gap has already been implemented through other means.

 

If you can't see the difference there then I worry for you.

 

One method has the alternative where you must play the game more to continue. The other has where you waste you or someone else's hard earned cash to progress.

 

How is it crazy to find that totally unreasonable?!

[Junko]

Yeah you can? Clearly, since you're buying these games already, you have no issue paying $40 up front. Why would an added option of "pay as you go" make this any different?

It halts naturality in a sense that I can't just blaze through levels. I have to stop and consider purchasing the ability to blaze through the next; it's just stilted.

 

If I could pay my way through Mario 3D World's Green Star Collecting and Stamp Collecting to unlock Champion's Road quicker, then where's the feel of satisfactory in getting that difficult Green Star? Or finding that hidden stamp? Microtransactions leave you feel empty when you use it to get past something that you should do with your own skill. I shouldn't have to pay for extra balloons in Donkey Kong Country with real money, I should be able to either learn the level or grind on Banana Coins.

And this.

[Dejimon11]

What major company has benefitted using mucrotransactions?

[VO.SUPER]

Yeah you can? Clearly, since you're buying these games already, you have no issue paying $40 up front. Why would an added option of "pay as you go" make this any different?

Because it's an incomplete sham that does not provide you with the same experience as having the whole would. In Phoenix wright, you can be satisfied with one episode because you got a unique scenario that provides you a story that can't be found in the other chapters.

Having a Mario world be sealed off until you pay is pointless because you will want more, the game is designed in such a way that not getting to that final boss and ending is unsatisfying. Sure, for us hardcores it's a simple task of just buy the whole package, but for the casual consumer who doesn't want to pay for more but is left unsatisfied with the fact the rest of the game is being held back will feel conned and that damages Mario's reputation.

[Sami]

If I could pay my way through Mario 3D World's Green Star Collecting and Stamp Collecting to unlock Champion's Road quicker, then where's the feel of satisfactory in getting that difficult Green Star? Or finding that hidden stamp? Microtransactions leave you feel empty when you use it to get past something that you should do with your own skill. I shouldn't have to pay for extra balloons in Donkey Kong Country with real money, I should be able to either learn the level or grind on Banana Coins.

 

That's not what I said. I'm talking about charging a certain amount of money (that adds up to the price of a full retail game) for each world. This works for Mario because it is already separated in this manner.

 

And besides that, even what you mentioned isn't a bad thing to have if it's just an option. I could use the very same argument for the super-guide. If you're not interested, don't use it. I wouldn't.

 

If you can't see the difference there then I worry for you.

 

One method has the alternative where you must play the game more to continue. The other has where you waste you or someone else's hard earned cash to progress.

 

How is it crazy to find that totally unreasonable?!

 

One method has me pay $40 at the store to play the game. The other has me download it for free and pay in chunks.

 

I don't need your worry, and I don't see how this is at all unreasonable.

[Indigo Rush]

Discoid also wants Nintendo to go to mobile phones.

Think about this as you're debating the topic. His mindset is completely different.

[MegasonicZX]

I can see your point but the difference here is that your playing the game to progress in the scenario's that you bring up to progress, thats not really stopping in progress. The way how your wording it is that you would pay to essentially skip on gameplay while paying to skip to the next part.

[Junko]

What major company has benefitted using mucrotransactions?

Not many, if any. Only one that comes to mind is EA.