"Mediocre" Sonic games being de-listed

[Spector]

Segas research teams are shit. What they've done here is obvious, they've done exactly what they always do, instead of actually researching the product they've gone to a statistic site and said "Well according to this data it tells us this...." instead of actually looking at the bigger picture...

...Had their research team actually bothered to do research instead of coming up with the ingenius idea of just googling metacritic, had they bothered to actually research their own product, they might have thought otherwise.

Agreed, I had hope when they said they were postponing the Sonic 4 release because they wanted to please the fans by taking their opinions into account more (Even if it could be a cover up for "we're not ready")

Sega has the authority to take things away that don't make their cut. Putting a game up for sale like some of the lesser Sonic titles only makes Sega keep producing games that people usually don't like to buy, all while distracting from the new forward focus of Sega's new games. If you take those games away from the shelves, it makes them harder to find, and as a result it makes them more expensive and more sought out for. I can definitely see the positives that Sega is going for.

And for all the people who are against something like this, there will always be Ebay and Amazon.

[The Tenth Doctor]

Well from this list its kinda silly to take off Sonic Rivals and Rivals 2. Take them away and the PSP has no Sonic games anymore.....

[Glenn]

I'm sorry, Tornado, but your short, sarcastic replies to my post try to sound far more clever than they actually are.

So?

So my point is that one man's opinion should not outweigh another's. Especially when modern videogame critics form opinions based on imbalanced and misguided experiences, and/or second-hand or third-hand information. I could have used any example to counter the critics: I chose SSMB, but my point still stands that I could scare up thirty people from anywhere, to counter thirty critics. And in the face of the collected critical opinion being used by SEGA as business-strategy-defining fact, I think I could find more, too.

Because someone from the Sonic fanbase is sure to give an opinion that is more accurate and less biased.

Speak for yourself. The very reason that I care about Sonic means that, when a Sonic game is released, I'll be sure to play it to completion before giving my opinion. When I gave a single act of Sonic the Hedgehog 4 - Episode One a blast at Summer of Sonic, I came away with very vague and loose opinions because I'd snatched a very vague snapshot of the game. Unlike a "professional critic", who'd come away from that clock reading 01:35:00 and launch into an "in-depth preview" about the game.

No, but an awful lot of us spend the couple of weeks after reviews hit but before the game ships bitching about how the game we haven't played and they have simply has to be better than they are saying it is. And then, those times when we play the game and find out that it is exactly as bad as they said it was (STH '06, for example), some of us stick our fingers in our ears and sing to ourselves until the detractors go away.

The nature of fandom, you're right, but you're also being unfairly general and presenting fact in a negative light. The fact is, there are several examples of professional reviews from critics where Sonic games have been unfairly attacked. The recent mess over Sonic Adventure DLC on Xbox Live and the PlayStation Network certainly amused me: when one review says that the game switches to 2D gameplay and features a boost, you have to wonder, don't you? Besides, you're talking a lot about pre-release... I'm talking about post-release, and so is SEGA (as we're talking about games that have been out a while). So to address simply the comment you made about post-release attitudes, I hardly think you can call it "stick out fingers in our ears and sing to ourselves until the detractors go away". What about those that, like myself, genuinely like Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) or Sonic Unleashed, eh? Am I being childish and "sticking my fingers in my ears" when I try to constructively show why I like those games? Am I not allowed to like them?

That doesn't particularly make a difference, and it isn't particularly accurate.

I think you're wrong on both counts. Not only does it make a vast difference (as Sonic games have a relative continuity at times, and improvements and changes made by the developers are often based on the reactions of fans, so an in-depth knowledge and following of the Sonic franchise's history is massively helpful when it comes to a fair and objective view of a new game) but it is certainly accurate. Who plays more Sonic videogames than Sonic fans?

Very true. Because all critics have it out for Sonic; and only us Sonic fans, who spend the majority of the time trying to stab each other with knives, truly know what direction the series should go in.

I'd like to categorically deny any accusation of violence towards another Sonic fan. I'd also like to categorically deny saying, at any stage, that the fans should dictate the future of the franchise.

[The Tenth Doctor]

On the topic of Glenn mentioning the Sonic Adventure DLC 2d debacle, remember the Black Knight review? They didn't even finish the game....

[Phos]

The second half of the game is basically the same as the first half, are you expecting their opinion to drastically change from seeing the credits twice?

[Tara]

The nature of fandom, you're right, but you're also being unfairly general and presenting fact in a negative light. The fact is, there are several examples of professional reviews from critics where Sonic games have been unfairly attacked. The recent mess over Sonic Adventure DLC on Xbox Live and the PlayStation Network certainly amused me: when one review says that the game switches to 2D gameplay and features a boost, you have to wonder, don't you? Besides, you're talking a lot about pre-release... I'm talking about post-release, and so is SEGA (as we're talking about games that have been out a while). So to address simply the comment you made about post-release attitudes, I hardly think you can call it "stick out fingers in our ears and sing to ourselves until the detractors go away". What about those that, like myself, genuinely like Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) or Sonic Unleashed, eh? Am I being childish and "sticking my fingers in my ears" when I try to constructively show why I like those games? Am I not allowed to like them?

Although I'm not (at all) a fan of theHalo franchise, I'd also like to point out the negative backlash from mainstream critics giving a positive review to ODST (or whatever it's called), when it is clearly not even a full, complete game, and that's just the jest of it. From what I've heard--and again, this is all word of the mouth, so I may be wrong and if I am, big deal--there have even been reports of critics fired for giving it a bad review. (Which, to be perfectly fair, is an understandable marketing strategy when Halo is one of your biggest sponsors, but that's another story) - So in a nutshell, what I'm saying is that mainstream critics are paid for their opinion and their opinion is shaped by money, and the critics who review Sonic games are of no exception.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Akito

[Tornado]

I'm going to put this up in big words now, so people don't miss it when I explain it later in my post:

They aren't doing this because of Metacritic scores.

Look at the list Gnasher posted.

Sonic the Hedgehog 2006

Sonic Unleashed

Sonic and the Black Knight

Sonic Classic Collection DS

Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood

Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games

Sonic and the Secret Rings

Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity

Sonic Rivals

Sonic Rivals 2

Edited October 9, 2010 by Tornado

[Vulpine]

I know that not everyone has to like Sonic games, but they shouldn't be so negative about it, either.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Vulpine

[Yong]

remember the Black Knight review? They didn't even finish the game....

Yeah, the first half of the game totally sucks. But if you can go through 2-5 hours of pure crap, the second half totally saves the game. SO much better than a game that's good from beginning to end. *sarcasm*

[Solid SOAP]

Good, the less shitty games out on the market the better. I actually really liked Unleashed, but Colors and Sonic 4 are looking better than just about anything that came out before it, so more games like that will make me a happy fan.

[SHAX Hedgefox]

Yeah, the first half of the game totally sucks. But if you can go through 2-5 hours of pure crap, the second half totally saves the game. SO much better than a game that's good from beginning to end. *sarcasm*

[Glenn]

And your attempts to debunk them are based on unfounded hyperbole smacked with desperation (And no, I'm not being serious.).

You see, when I'm trying to be a caustic asshole, you will know it. Until then, don't attempt to make these types of things personal.

[-Mark-]

Just seen that list, and what? They're pulling Winter Olympics and Classic Collection?

That's just odd. Not only are both games less than a year old (with Classic Collection actually being this year), but both are still selling really well.

I think this is more SEGA's way of trying to force their new games on people so they can see how good they are. If they pull all these games from shelves, then if people want a Sonic game, they'll have to opt for something new.

[Marcello]

Another thing that is weird are the Rivals games. SEGA just rereleased them in the Essentials series a few months ago.

[DistantJ]

Erm... Where has this list come from? Why is everybody assuming Unleashed is going? The news reports just say they're going to be pulling some mediocre ones off the shelf... That doesn't necessarily mean Unleashed, and after a certain number of years, a lot of ill-received games are pulled anyway.

[-Mark-]

Actually, wasn't Sonic 06 pulled within a year of release? Yeah, okay, you could still download it, but even that's been removed, now.

That's a point. Does that mean a lot of these games are actually going to become really rare eventually, now?

[Gamerguy21]

That list that everyone keeps referring to is noting but pure speculation from the NeoGAF thread. Some guy just basically went on Metacritic and listed all Sonic games with a score below 75. There is no confirmation so far about what games are actually getting removed and what aren't.

Actually, wasn't Sonic 06 pulled within a year of release?

Edited October 9, 2010 by gamerguy21

[Tornado]

I'm 85% sure you can still find STH '06 new at some Wal-Marts.

I've nothing really to add to this discussion but:

...I bloody well hate PR, too.

[Tara]

Actually, wasn't Sonic 06 pulled within a year of release? Yeah, okay, you could still download it, but even that's been removed, now.

[-Mark-]

Hmm, odd. Maybe those are unsold copies (I imagine there'd be a lot floating around)?

Well, that or I'm wrong. I just do seem to remember a bit of a fuss being made in 2007 when it was apparently announced that 06 was being discontinued, is all.

[Glenn]

Well, that or I'm wrong. I just do seem to remember a bit of a fuss being made in 2007 when it was apparently announced that 06 was being discontinued, is all.

[HunterTSF]

It has come to my attention that the Xbox 360 version of Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode I has now reached "Average" status on Metacritic.

Ohohoho! This presents quite the conundrum. It's not like it's going to be taken down or anything, but it's certainly hilariously ironic that they've removed all of the "mediocre" Sonic games that they believed to hurt the brand's image, banking on Sonic 4 to greatly improve it... only to have that game be labelled as mediocrity as well. Bah, oh well - at least Colors looks awesome.

Edited October 15, 2010 by HunterTSF

[SHAX Hedgefox]

It has come to my attention that the Xbox 360 version of Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode I has now reached "Average" status on Metacritic.

Ohohoho! This presents quite the conundrum. It's not like it's going to be taken down or anything, but it's certainly hilariously ironic that they've removed all of the "mediocre" Sonic games that they believed to hurt the brand's image, banking on Sonic 4 to greatly improve it... only to have that game be labelled as mediocrity as well. Bah, oh well - at least Colors looks awesome.

[Tara]

It must have been updated recently, because from the looks of the site now, it's doing very good. Well, a lot better than the previous titles anyway.

I've not played Sonic 4 yet, but from the looks of it, most of the negative reviews stem mostly from a "It's not perfect, therefore it sucks" sort of mindset.

[Tornado]

I've not played Sonic 4 yet, but from the looks of it, most of the negative reviews stem mostly from a "It's not perfect, therefore it sucks" sort of mindset.

Example?