Who is your least favorite character and why?

[Nepenthe]

1. I'm so very tempted to stop this debate and stab a baby right now because I fucking LOATHE that phrase.

I suggest you seek professional help if a mere phrase incites infanticidal tendencies in you.

2. Your conclusion isn't logical based on the sole fact that the two games where there was a serious battle between them weren't cutscene heavy in the slightest. (This would be CD and Fighters, and then again, it's just Fighters, because CD was a race). Aside from Fighters, Metal Sonic's last confrontations with Sonic were the Rivals games, and those simply didn't show any aftermath. Regardless, the series has set a precedent that Metal Sonic is essentially The Dragon.

My conclusion is actually logical because it naturally carries the burden of assumption. That's because I'm not trying to prove a positive; You are, said positive being, "Metal Sonic poses the second greatest threat to Sonic." We have both agreed that cutscenes are the only admissable element of proof as to what actually takes place in the games. Considering you outright admitted that no battle Sonic has ever had with Metal was ever cutscene-riddled, you've effectively admitted that you have no proof of your argument at all, thus there is no reason for me to blindly believe it. Innocent until proven guilty and all that good stuff. <3

He is THE biggest enemy threat next to Dr. Eggman himself, and this extends to about every character except Silver. In fact, your argument would be completely valid if you were talking about Silver and not Sonic, as Silver is probably the most overpowered hero character in the series. And if he's not #1, he ties with Shadow.

Considering Eggman turned the robot into a loudspeaker, I'm not so sure he is that level of a threat, especially not in comparison to the numerous monsters, one of which actually snacks on dimensions for Pete's sake.

Anywho, quite frankly, if Sonic didn't perceive Metal Sonic as a big, or rather an even bigger threat than Knuckles/Shadow/Silver, he wouldn't have used this expression:

For two games at the very mention of his name. (and Rivals 2 had waaaaaaaaaaay more pics for character expressions too!)

Also for the record, Knuckles, Shadow, and Silver are present in both games, and he approached all three with his normal smiling demeanor, and even seems to jump at the chance of battling Knuckles and Shadow.

TL;DR: When Metal Sonic shows up, shit just got real

Again, in regards to Sonic's expression, you've failed to argue against two of my rebuttals about that--

1) Sonic used the same demeanor for Jet in Riders 1; Despite the fact that Knuckles actually blows Jet off, Sonic immediately reconsiders and states that he has to give it his all if he's to win against him. However, you're not considering this reaction in Sonic as evidence that Jet is also a significant rival too, and that's inconsistent with your thoughts about Metal.

2) A universe's point of view is not required to be in line with the audience's; This is how we can predict outcomes that characters cannot. Thus, even if Sonic himself considers Metal Sonic to be the Freddy Kreugar incarnate, this has no bearing on how the audience can potentially perceive that same opponent.

In fact, this is actually completely irrelevant to my argument which is that we have seen no irrefutable proof that Metal Sonic has physically hurt Sonic in the games. So even if Sonic is scared shitless of Metal-- which I doubt-- the point still remains: If I'm never going to see any evidence that I came out of battle with Metal with a significant loss of strength or health, I'm certainly not going to perceive him as much of a threat as a character that has irrefutably weakened or (nearly) beaten Sonic... like Knuckles... or Shadow... or Silver...

or hell, even Amy! She took a hammer to his head and has invited the hedgehog to run away from her. She's a scary bitch! xP

[Cortez]

Considering Metal Sonic can use ANY of Sonic's abilities perfectly, as well the abilities of any other character he so wishes I'd say he is a pretty huge threat to Sonic. There's even evidence to suggest that Metal's 'super form' (for lack of a better word describing whatever the fuck Metal Overlord was supposed to be) can defeat even Super Sonic considering it took 9 normal form characters and 3 super forms to defeat. Not even Solaris needed that many characters to take it down.

Considering he can also use Chaos Control and Psychokinesis if we're to take Rivals as canon i'd even go so far as to say Metal Sonic is the strongest character in the entire franchise.

(Also oh hey my old as fuck Rivals rips have made an appearance <3)

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

There's even evidence to suggest that Metal's 'super form' (for lack of a better word describing whatever the fuck Metal Overlord was supposed to be) can defeat even Super Sonic considering it took 9 normal form characters and 3 super forms to defeat. Not even Solaris needed that many characters to take it down.

Technically, Solaris needed three purely Superpowered hedgehogs to defeat. Twice. And if I remember, Solaris' attacks can actually do some serious damage to those same hedgehogs to where they lose rings (or I might be going off on the wrong tangent with that). What supports Solaris even more is that he had to be defeated in the separate Past, Present, and Future timelines at the SAME TIME; kill him in one time period, he's still living la vida loca in the other two...which would mean he's completely omnipresent, and I don't even want to get that technically on all that.

Metal Sonic needed 9 character's to weaken and it could be argued whether or not Tails and Knuckles were even Super at the final boss. But he's on a lower level as you only need to best him in the present. Heck it makes even less sense when Shadow could've gone Super along side Sonic and cancel Metal's use of Chaos Control...but eh, that's irrelevant.

I'm not going to deny that Metal can be a serious threat, but I wouldn't give him so much credit to where he could be stronger than a foe like Solaris.

Edited May 27, 2010 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Aquaslash]

I suggest you seek professional help if a mere phrase incites infanticidal tendencies in you.

Already did, didn't change a damn thing. I still hate that shit.

My conclusion is actually logical because it naturally carries the burden of assumption. That's because I'm not trying to prove a positive; You are, said positive being, "Metal Sonic poses the second greatest threat to Sonic." We have both agreed that cutscenes are the only admissable element of proof as to what actually takes place in the games. Considering you outright admitted that no battle Sonic has ever had with Metal was ever cutscene-riddled, you've effectively admitted that you have no proof of your argument at all, thus there is no reason for me to blindly believe it. Innocent until proven guilty and all that good stuff. <3

Nice job not understanding the rest of my post :|

Considering Eggman turned the robot into a loudspeaker, I'm not so sure he is that level of a threat, especially not in comparison to the numerous monsters, one of which actually snacks on dimensions for Pete's sake.

We are disregarding all of the cosmic horrors because they are one time offshoots that often require Sonic and Eggman to team up. In the overall basis that Sonic is the Hero, and Eggman is the ultimate and final enemy, Metal Sonic would generally be the penultimate battle. It is this way for a reason.

Again, in regards to Sonic's expression, you've failed to argue against two of my rebuttals about that--

1) Sonic used the same demeanor for Jet in Riders 1; Despite the fact that Knuckles actually blows Jet off, Sonic immediately reconsiders and states that he has to give it his all if he's to win against him. However, you're not considering this reaction in Sonic as evidence that Jet is also a significant rival too, and that's inconsistent with your thoughts about Metal.

Didn't I already call bullshit on this? If I didn't before, then I'm doing it now. I don't recall a time where Sonic was anywhere near scared shitless at the mention of Jet. Sure, Sonic says he's no lightweight, but that's not the same as the overall "shit just got real" demeanor he takes on when Metal Sonic comes around. In fact, having

Sonic's initial demeanor appears to be one of rage/annoyance, which is about the opposite of how he reacts when Metal Sonic shows up.

2) A universe's point of view is not required to be in line with the audience's; This is how we can predict outcomes that characters cannot. Thus, even if Sonic himself considers Metal Sonic to be the Freddy Kreugar incarnate, this has no bearing on how the audience can potentially perceive that same opponent.

In fact, this is actually completely irrelevant to my argument which is that we have seen no irrefutable proof that Metal Sonic has physically hurt Sonic in the games. So even if Sonic is scared shitless of Metal-- which I doubt-- the point still remains: If I'm never going to see any evidence that I came out of battle with Metal with a significant loss of strength or health, I'm certainly not going to perceive him as much of a threat as a character that has irrefutably weakened or (nearly) beaten Sonic... like Knuckles... or Shadow... or Silver...

It looks like you're arguing two completely different but related points compared to the one I'm arguing (Metal Sonic's overall status in the series as a significant threat) If you're using your personal gameplay skill

as a crutch of a character's merit, not only is that flat out inaccurate, but extremely one sided. Every single Sonic game can be beaten without taking a single hit. I guess that means every single character is a lightweight eh?

or hell, even Amy! She took a hammer to his head and has invited the hedgehog to run away from her. She's a scary bitch! xP

If you honestly believe Amy is more of a threat than Metal Sonic, then I think we can end this right here and now, and just agree to disagree.

(Also oh hey my old as fuck Rivals rips have made an appearance <3)

Wait, YOU'RE S-Blitz?

*head explodes*

Do rivals 2 plz

Edited May 27, 2010 by Aquaslash

[Nepenthe]

Considering Metal Sonic can use ANY of Sonic's abilities perfectly, as well the abilities of any other character he so wishes I'd say he is a pretty huge threat to Sonic. There's even evidence to suggest that Metal's 'super form' (for lack of a better word describing whatever the fuck Metal Overlord was supposed to be) can defeat even Super Sonic considering it took 9 normal form characters and 3 super forms to defeat. Not even Solaris needed that many characters to take it down.

Considering he can also use Chaos Control and Psychokinesis if we're to take Rivals as canon i'd even go so far as to say Metal Sonic is the strongest character in the entire franchise.

I have a habit of considering the battle in Heroes an arbitrary product of its teamwork gimmick whereas other final bosses, even ones that are logically more powerful than, well, everything, like Solaris, got the short end of the stick in the effort department simply because they were in games that were more solo-oriented. (Seriously, why gather all the teams at the same spot if you won't make them do anything?) I certainly think it's a fair assumption that the whole of Heroes' narrative pandered to its gimmick at the expense of common sense. Regardless though, the fact remains that even though Metal Sonic is apparently as powerful as you two say, his biggest victory against any character in his 17 year lifespan was apparently kidnapping Amy. I'm sorry, but it's just very hard for me to be impressed by his record, regardless of what he can potentially do.

Really, all I'm asking from Metal is to just win one fight; Something even Eggman has managed to do. Really, is that too much to ask from "the strongest character in the entire franchise?" =/

Nice job not understanding the rest of my post :|

For what's it worth, telling someone they misunderstood your post is completely useless without explanation. So what did I misunderstand?

We are disregarding all of the cosmic horrors because they are one time offshoots that often require Sonic and Eggman to team up. In the overall basis that Sonic is the Hero, and Eggman is the ultimate and final enemy, Metal Sonic would generally be the penultimate battle. It is this way for a reason.

I don't agree to that term; How does Sonic and Eggman's cooperation against a villain and said villain's status as a one-shot render their power irrelevant? Besides, without inviting all of the one-shot baddies into the discussion for comparative purposes, you would technically have to disregard Metal's form in Heroes too.

Didn't I already call bullshit on this? If I didn't before, then I'm doing it now. I don't recall a time where Sonic was anywhere near scared shitless at the mention of Jet. Sure, Sonic says he's no lightweight, but that's not the same as the overall "shit just got real" demeanor he takes on when Metal Sonic comes around. In fact, having

, Sonic's initial demeanor appears to be one of rage/annoyance, which is about the opposite of how he reacts when Metal Sonic shows up.

Your initial statement said that Sonic took Metal seriously by simply saying that he needed to be keep his guard up. He expresses the same sentiment with Jet. You've now moved the goalpost to Sonic having to be intimidated instead. =/

It looks like you're arguing two completely different but related points compared to the one I'm arguing (Metal Sonic's overall status in the series as a significant threat) If you're using your personal gameplay skill

as a crutch of a character's merit, not only is that flat out inaccurate, but extremely one sided. Every single Sonic game can be beaten without taking a single hit. I guess that means every single character is a lightweight eh?

I've been arguing those points since the beginning; How did your stance then become relevant if it's an entirely different point? If we're going to talk about Metal's in-universe status, we might as well stop now because it's not what I was originally referring to at all. =/

Regardless though, how in the world did you draw from either of those points that I'm using my own gameplay skill as a parameter? That's irrelvant. I've expressed time and time again the evidence on which I base my viewpoints-- Cutscenes. Regardless of how I fight particular battles in the games, the cutscenes will still remain the same. Sonic is on the ground in ShTH after deuling with Shadow and in '06 after dueling with Silver. Knuckles knocks him out of a super state in S3. The only two cutscenes we have indicating a battle between Metal and Sonic are in Heroes, one in which Sonic hasn't even entered battle yet, and the other were Metal is on the ground crying over his defeat while Sonic stands over him perfectly healthy-- Not a sign of fatique or injury on the hedgehog.

This just real seems obvious to me; In actual combat, Sonic has fared far better against Metal than other characters.

If you honestly believe Amy is more of a threat than Metal Sonic, then I think we can end this right here and now, and just agree to disagree.

I was joking, dude.

Edited May 27, 2010 by Nepenthe

[Ebby]

Not trying to make you like Knuckles, but I should point out that Knuckles wasn't always a dumbass. This is a case of the horrible Post-SA2 Effect. As Tails became more useless, Robotnik became more incompetent, and Amy became more of a stalker... Knuckles became more of a retard.

You see, yes, even back then he was gullible, but "gullible" and "stupid" are two different things - Knuckles may be easily tricked (by the same guy no less), but in the old days (especially S3&K) he was still sneaky and clever, and even knew a fair bit about the world and the Chaos Emeralds (and of course the Master Emerald). It's not that he was dumb, he was roughly as smart as Sonic, maybe even moreso - it's just the combination of him distrusting others and living on a lonely floating island that renders him...well, pawn fodder for moustached villains. But make no mistake, he was still far more than your typical "strong dumb dude", just like how Tails was more than your typical "smart weak kid".

Then Heroes came and ruined everything.

Okay that's a good argument. That's very true with all the characters, but even still I dislike Knuckles. It is bad enough that he's gullible, but now he IS this strong dumb dude. And that's who I dislike. Actually, dumb isn't the best word to use, I'd say Knuckles lacks sense these days.

[XavierRussell]

I wouldn't say Knuckles is a "string dumb dude" stereotype at all. He's just simple, and not as swift and precise as Sonic is. I think Sonic X portrayed Knuckles really well, and I wish the games would treat him more like a rival like they used to.

My least favorite character has to be Shadow, because of what we all did to him.

Fans: "man Shadow was awesome! He's not dead I swear! SEGA BRINGHIMBACKLOLZ!"

SEGA: It seems the fans want to see more of that Black hedgehog....I sense potential for $$$!

Sonic team: Yea but...Shadow's death was supposed to be emotional and he was supposed to leave a positive impact on everyone from SA2. Remember Sonic's final sayonara? By getting rid of him we also can stick with the "Theres only one Sonic" theme. To bring him back and have the 2 characters interact would be silly

SEGA: Start production on StH right away!

Sonic team: D:

Fans before release: Yay! Shadow--->What?? a gun??---->What is this shit??

Fans after release: Man Shadows such a stupid character with his forced badassery and teen angst...

Me: ....*sigh*...

Reviving Shadow was a very bad move. Theres no reason SONIC couldn't have gone on Shadow's adventure in StH, fought Black Doom and learned more about the fallen Shadow the hedgehog. Without the guns of course.

Edited May 27, 2010 by XavierRussell

[Phos]

I thought I made this post already, but it looks like I didn't: In Sonic 06's multiplayer, both Sonic and Shadow were able to escape from Silver's telekenesis.

What are we talking about here? Metal Sonic? That guy was able to destroy spikes. There's a pretty short list of things shown to do that.

And if you Post in white I can't read it on the iPhone skin, and it doesn't exactly stand out on Sonocal either.

Edited May 27, 2010 by Phos

[Unionhack]

I loved Shadow during SA2 and ONLY during SA2. Afterwards, I've had pretty much a burning hatred towards him. They sure try to make him as emo as possible, and it's depressing sometimes that a game series so uplifting should have a character like that. His story and death in SA2 were great; that should have been it, I feel.

[agoodusername]

To count all canon humans besides Eggman playing prominent roles:

1. Gerald/Maria

2. Elise

3..................

And Elise didn't help Sonic at all really, HE helped HER.

Blame the game, not the characters.

Extremely late comment, but you forgot the G.U.N commander.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Fans before release: Yay! Shadow--->What?? a gun??---->What is this shit??

Fans after release: Man Shadows such a stupid character with his forced badassery and teen angst...

Me: ....*sigh*...

Reviving Shadow was a very bad move.

That wasn't because of them reviving Shadow. It was because they were desperate to attract the more hardcore crowd who played more edgier games like Halo and GTA and used Shadow as a means to accomplish that.

It's not like that would've been the only way to to bring back Shadow, and they could've taken a different path in reviving him that avoided the problems they created back then.

Theres no reason SONIC couldn't have gone on Shadow's adventure in StH, fought Black Doom and learned more about the fallen Shadow the hedgehog. Without the guns of course.

When you say it like that it really doesn't make a slight difference who went on Shadow's adveture, Shadow included. Except who better to learn more about Shadow than Shadow himself?

Extremely late comment, but you forgot the G.U.N commander.

Prof. Pickle anyone?

Edited July 14, 2010 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[SpeedsTurbo]

ok to settle this whole metal sonic argument. yes there is no cutscene for sonic and metal which i agree determines the fight and all sonic did was race him but if u put metal sonic in a modern day game ( not counting heroes ) he would be able to match sonic's speed and probably surpass his strenghth. metal could catch sonic off guard when he doesnt have all the emeralds. im pretty sure metal would win. u could also watch the movie and see metal and sonic's fight. that lasted for a while and wht really killed metal was the lava he burned in. yes sonic did weaken him but he never officialy killed him. it just happend to take place in a element that sonic used to his advantage.

[MizukiMoon]

My least favourite character used to be Shadow, god I used to hate this guy more than anything! But admittedly, it was because I felt he was taking Sonic's place, and Sonic meant a lot to me back then. Nowadays, I couldn't really care less who's more popular *isn't as big of a Sonic fan as she used to be* and it seems Sonic's by far gotten his popularity back, I don't see nearly as many Shadow fanboys/girls as I used to, so now I guess my least favourite character's changed...

Now it's Amy. I hate this girl, so much! The Amy from Sonic Adventure 2 onwards, that is. I must say, I adore old school Amy, she's awesome, I'm a real big fan of her, and the way she's portrayed in Sonic Adventure was great as well, because she wasn't the obsessive fangirl she is now.

Modern Amy? She's got to be the worst character I've ever come across, she's just so damn annoying >.< Her fangirlyness, the way she's selfishly always all over Sonic when you can tell full well he finds it uncomfortable (IMO), her voice annoys the hell outta me, heck, she even looks ugly! I basically just can't stand her.

[CreamyBagel]

Cosmo really irked me in Sonic X. I think it was her dub voice which grated on my ears and she was really dull. All she seemed to do was cry and cause bother until the second to last episode where she actually did something useful. Who knew a plant could be so annoying?

I'd also have to say Storm because he was big and dumb. I can't think of him doing anything important excpet for lurking behind Jet and Wave and acting like a stereotypical tough guy.

[Pikachu in a Sombrero]

Vector. He's so unneccessary. Why him instead of Mighty, I don't understand.

Espio, Charmy, and Big the Cat are all kinda cool in their own way, but Vector's just a bumbling waste of space.

[Nepenthe]

Whilst I'm not a Vector "fan" per se, nor a Chaotix "fan" in general, Vector works in his current role because he actually has deduction skills and enough of an imposing figure and idea of responsibility to keep the team together. He works in his current place, and it's not a place I can see the more simple-minded, nomadic, and pacifistic Mighty working in.

But all of this is besides the point. How is any member in the Chaotix, both past and present and sans Knuckles, more necessary than the other? The series was doing fine for the five or six years those guys were gone.

[Silver*]

I'm going to say Blaze. I don't dislike her because she's popular, I dislike her attitude. She's got this "I have no flaws and I'm cool because I'm angry all the time" attitude and it gets annoying. I understand having a rough past but don't take it out on everyone else.... that... was annoying.

And she has no flaws from what I've seen.... which makes me to believe that she's a Mary-Sue. She's everything most girls WANT to be: independent (I can understand), pretty and powerful. On top of all of this: she's a Knux ripoff. Do we really need two guardians? And Blaze being a guardian gives her a pass to act like Knux himself. Most of all: she's a typical, rebellious teenager.... a pattern that's getting old.

If she was independent and tough with originality and had flaws and fears... then I'd respect her more. I respect Shadow more and I have my issues with him.

However, the three characters I dislike more than Blaze are the Babylon Rouges. Do we really need them? To me; they are just 3 more moody teenagers added to the cast. Enough stereotypical teens already.

[Cortez]

And she has no flaws from what I've seen....

No boobs.

[Mollfie]

I love and hate Amy. I think she's very cute to look at, and at time I really love her character. But other times she's annoys the hell out of me! Her attitude can be very grating, and so can her voice acting sometimes >.>;

I just want her to mature a tiny tiny bit and stop being a wailing fangirl. No wonder Sonic doesn't want to go out with her T__T lol

[Pikachu in a Sombrero]

Actually, scratch that. Marine is my least favorite character.

Out of everyone, SHE is the most unnecessary. They could have used Cream for the role, they could have brought in any of their unused female characters from the series, they could have just simply made it a game revolving around only Sonic, Tails, and Blaze.

But no. They make yet ANOTHER new character and she's not even that likable. She only plays a fair role in the beginning of the game and then once Blaze shows up, she's basically in the background for the rest of the game yelling out to say, "Hey guys! I'm still in this game!"

[Sapphire]

Alrighty. Characters I seriously hate:

-Marine. Rush Adventure could have been a great game without her. And she's annoying.

-Elise. Need I say why?

-Silver. Actually, he could be a good character if he wasn't so... bleh. Give him a reason to be in games besides "Saving the goddamn future" and I think I would be OK with the guy.

-Jet. I just see him as a really annoying Sonic with green feathers. The other Babylons are cool, though.

-Cream. She hasn't really shown up much lately, but she never really did much anyway.

-Chris, if he even counts. He is THE ONE that I would vote off the island first.

Characters that seriously need a makeover (Or, characters that I couldn't just say "Get rid of them", but have some flaws that need buffed out.):

-Shadow. He was really cool in SA2, but he would have been that much cooler if he just stayed dead.

-Rouge. Same with Shadow, was great in SA2, and heck, even Heroes. But she just kinda takes up space now.

-Knuckles. He seems like he doesn't do much lately, and if he's in a game, he just tags along with Sonic. No more Master Emerald duties, it seems. Poor Knuckles.

[Evile Cruelty]

Chris Thorndyke.

If he doesn't count, then I would have to say Princess Elise.

It's... just... wrong! Especially in this cutscene.

Edited August 10, 2010 by Evile Cruelty

[Nerfuffle]

^Interspecies romance on a Windows ’98 desktop. You know you love it!

Yay! Rage time!

Elise is an example of bad presentation at it’s finest. Though honestly not the first animated woman to have the hots for an animal, she is just a rushed, badly written, unlikeable character, (suicide is not cool kids, especially when you have an entire KINGDOM depending on you.) It baffles me as to what extent these professional game designers could mess this one up. You have the princess of the city of Venice, one of the richest culture hot spots in the world, and a member of the rainbow colored Sonic universe to boot and the best they could come up with was a red mop with a sack for a dress.

And let’s face it, it take two to tango.

My top pick goes to Sonic himself in some of the games in the past decade; A happy go lucky psa character, nothing like the blue dude we fell in love with. This guy creeps me out, I don’t even know entirely why. In fact, whenever I play Sonic Rush I’m always tempted to play as Blaze so I can avoid hearing his hauntingly dull, predictable chatter. Like screams of repressed agony seeping out from the shriveled up remains of his former rodent self; unconvincing, soulless.

I don’t love to hate him, I don’t hate to love him, I just don’t care what happens to him. ccccrrrraaaaawwwwwlllllllliiiiiinnngggg iiiiiinnnnnn my sskkkkeeeeeeeiiiiiiiinnn

Edited August 10, 2010 by Vantoggle

[CreamyBagel]

I can see where you're coming from. I wish Sonic would go back to being his cocky self like he used to. Taunting Eggman before a battle and getting cheesed off when he can't do something, instead he's some kind of saint who is always cheerful and nice and rarely gets angry unless it's time for a final battle.

[Aquaslash]

No boobs.

I was gonna say that ;_;

Also, I totally agree with the posts about Sonic. At least the comics hold true to his wisearse persona.

Edited August 10, 2010 by Aquaslash