Nintendo 3DS

[Velotix von Skruviktorrius]

Well not that many people are aware of it, but the DS already uses two CPUs to work its magic, generally having each one dedicated to a particular screen with the more powerful chip of the two given all the 3D gruntwork. A more modern portable dual-core chip setup is completely plausible now that they've started pumping out budget dual-core chips. Laptop battery life is a lot better nowadays than people in this thread seem to believe if my own laptop is any indication. I'd expect a small handheld to stick with mono-core chipsets though as long as it can get away with it due to the reduced cooling requirements for the simpler hardware. There was also talk of Nintendo licensing the Tegra GPU chip from nVidia a while back and whilst I'll need to look into it more myself to confirm, as I understand it that chip is a monster for any handheld device. Looking at the specs even the ancient versions of the chip can happily chuck out resolutions that would have been considered high-end on a PC monitor five years ago, shortly before they all switched to widescreen format and the world rejoiced - and those max resolutions are much better than an SDTV. Consider that even now the DS is only using a resolution of approximately 340x240 and still struggling with that and you should start to see where this is headed, and that's even before you look at the newest ones that are dual-core and support full 1080p... on a handheld. ;D (See Edit 1.)

In practice though it won't appear to match the 360 whether it could on paper or not simply because there's no reason for a handheld to do HD graphics yet and the specialised hardware necessary for quality 3D graphics have intimidating cooling requirements. It's as much about what the hardware is actually being used to do as it is about what the hardware is theoretically capable of at peak performance. In fact no processor has been used to its maximum potential for gaming since the humble old Game Boy Color, although the DS is old enough and GPU-free enough that I suspect people will start hitting the limits of the DS' performance as well soon. (That's probably what prompted Nintendo to release new hardware in the first place.)

EDIT 1: Oh wait, nevermind. Discuss, etc.

EDIT 2: (La la la, trimming out the bullshit, hm hm hm...)

Edited June 7, 2010 by Velotix Lexovetikan

[Tornado]

laptop battery life is a lot better nowadays than people in this thread seem to believe if my own laptop is any indication.

Laptop batteries also can, and for performance laptops usually do, weigh well over a pound. Handheld game systems typically max out at half a pound.

Everything in the 360's hardware only has one core anyway given that it's using 2005 components so any dual-core or higher chip that hasn't been gimped utterly rapes the 360 in maximum potential processing performance,

That's... misleading. First of all, the 360 is not single core. It is in fact a triple core CPU built off of a somewhat similar base to that of the CELL. Second of all, it is a PowerPC architecture, which makes directly comparing it to the x86 CPUs (like those seen in PCs), ARM CPUs (like in the GBA, DS and the Tegra) or MIPS CPUs (like in the PSP, PSX and PS2) nearly impossible from a numbers standpoint.

There was also talk of Nintendo licensing the Tegra GPU chip from nVidia a while back and whilst I'll need to look into it more myself to confirm, as I understand it that chip is a monster for any handheld device. Looking at the specs even the ancient versions of the chip can happily chuck out resolutions that would have been considered high-end on a PC monitor five years ago, shortly before they all switched to widescreen format and the world rejoiced - and those max resolutions are much better than an SDTV. Consider that even now the DS is only using a resolution of approximately 340x240 and still struggling with that and you should start to see where this is headed, and that's even before you look at the newest ones that are dual-core and support full 1080p... on a handheld. ;D

The Tegra is powerful. The Tegra, even in Tegra 250 form, isn't anywhere near as powerful as the 360. It can support full 1080p for video playback, which is altogether a completely different ballgame than rendering things in 1080p, which is what the PS360 can do in talented hands. Even shitbox $300 desktops with onboard video are capable of 1080p movie playback. This is important to note, because the Wii is more limited by its max resolution resolution than its rendering capability.

Edited June 7, 2010 by Tornado

[Velotix von Skruviktorrius]

Hm. The articles I read gave me the impression that the 360 was running off a single-core x86 - clearly they were full of shit. Good to know. This is apparently the actual primary CPU for the 360, and it's a pretty sweet chip that's difficult to top in a handheld.

I'll remove the erroneous material now.

(This is also why I didn't really bother with studying hardware design in any computer field - it's too difficult to get concise system specs on hardware that tell you what you need/want to know.)

Laptop batteries also can, and for performance laptops usually do, weigh well over a pound. Handheld game systems typically max out at half a pound.

In this industry precedent rarely mandates aspects of the design of future products. Also of note is the fact that the DSi XL apparently weighs 314g, which is significantly more than half a pound, though admittedly not a full pound either. Nevertheless it is an example of a recent hardware design that already bucks the trend. The point being, though, that hardware with very solid performance can be operated at far lower voltages and require less battery grunt than they used to even a few years ago.

[Tornado]

In this industry precedent rarely mandates aspects of the design of future products. Also of note is the fact that the DSi XL apparently weighs 314g, which is significantly more than half a pound, though admittedly not a full pound either. Nevertheless it is an example of a recent hardware design that already bucks the trend.

The DSi XL bucks the trend because its entire raison d'être is bucking the size trend simply for the sake of doing so. The system already stretches the definition of "handheld" about as far as it will go, and all it is is a niche product designed the extract just a few more dollars from people with money to throw away. It really has no influence on the 3DS other than how much Nintendo thinks they will get away with charging for it.

There is also one thing you should note: it isn't precedent that mandates a rough approximation of handheld size and weight. It is practical concerns that mandate them. Why bother buying a handheld system if you can't actually carry it around with you easily? For example, note how, even though 17" laptops are far lighter and power efficient than they could dream of being 5 years ago, they are still niche products compared to 15.4" models because 15.4" laptops are more practical for most people.

The point being, though, that hardware with very solid performance can be operated at far lower voltages and require less battery grunt than they used to even a few years ago.

I don't doubt that Nintendo could make some super handheld with the processing power similar to the 360. My only question is, why would they? It wouldn't be anywhere near affordable (realistically, even a handheld with the power of a Wii would cost a couple hundred dollars, without any of the 3D, dual screens, or touch screen stuff), and it wouldn't get the battery life that people have come to expect from Nintendo handhelds (the iPhone 3GS, which is said to be as powerful as a Dreamcast/PS2, typically gets around 4-5 hours of battery life. And that is only a year or so old technology, from a company who makes an even bigger deal out of battery life than Nintendo). Even those recent PSP2 rumours of the system running cutdown CELL processors don't suggest processing power anywhere near that of the PS3, and the only target the PSP2 has to shoot for is the 4-6 hours that the current PSP gets anyway.

Edited June 7, 2010 by Tornado

[Indigo Rush]

Moore's Law would like a word with you all.

[Tornado]

Moore's Law would like a word with you all.

Moore's Law doesn't really apply to this discussion.

[Phos]

It sounds to me that if there is any truth to this "like a 460" rumor, it's probably more a case of that the system has similar capabilities within it's applications. if it's using a 480p display, it would need about 1/5 the pixels per second in order to achieve similar results. This lower resolution display would also not require textures to be as high resolution as they are on the 360. I believe that's what they mean, assuming it's true.

[BakingBluePotatoe]

how is it thatnobody is talking here WHENT THE SYSTEM IS CONFIRMED!?

Source: http://www.serebii.net/index2.shtml

[PSI Wind]

I think we all know what the 3DS is, but two things are still unknown:

Whens it coming out?

And whats the price?

Surfing the internet can answer you one of those: The 3DS will come out sometime before September 20th:

http://www.destructoid.com/e3-10-new-prof-layton-game-dated-for-september-20th-176625.phtml#comment

[Conando]

Wrong. That's the 3rd Layton in the DS collection (4 in total). Nice find otherwise, since I was wondering when the 3rd Layton was coming out in the US.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Hero Of Fate

[speedfreak]

I'm not liking how this thing is looking like port city. I mean an updated OOT is awesome but far too many of the "new" games announced are ports. :/

The next generation of handhelds? More like the last few generations of consoles.

Edited June 15, 2010 by speedfreak

[Ferno]

Link

Size (when closed):

Approximately 5.3 inches wide, 2.9 inches long, 0.8 inches tall.

Weight:

Approximately 8 ounces.

Look:

Final design is TBA.

Top Screen:

3.53-inch widescreen LCD display, enabling 3D view without the need for special glasses; with 800x240 pixel resolution (400 pixels are allocated for each eye to enable 3D viewing).

Touch Screen:

3.02-inch LCD with 320x240 pixel resolution with a touch screen.

Cameras:

One inner camera and two outer cameras with 640x480 (0.3 Mega) pixel resolution.

Pre-Installed Software:

TBA

Nintendo 3DS Game Card:

2 GB Max. at launch.

Wireless Communication:

Can communicate in the 2.4 GHz band. Multiple Nintendo 3DS systems can connect via a local wireless connection to let users communicate or enjoy competitive game play. Systems also can connect to LAN access points to access the Internet and allow people to enjoy games with others. Will support IEEE 802.11 with enhanced security (WPA/WPA2). Nintendo 3DS hardware is designed so that even when not in use, it can automatically exchange data with other Nintendo 3DS systems or receive data via the Internet while in sleep mode.

Game Controls:

Touch screen, embedded microphone, A/B/X/Y face buttons, + Control Pad, L/R buttons, Start and Select buttons, "Slide Pad" that allows 360-degree analog input, one inner camera, two outer cameras, motion sensor and a gyro sensor.

Other Input Controls:

3D Depth Slider to adjust level of 3D effect (can be scaled back or turned off completely depending on the preference of the user), Home button to call system function, Wireless switch to turn off wireless communications (even during game play), Power button. The telescoping stylus is approximately 4 inches when fully extended.

Input/Output:

A port that accepts both Nintendo 3DS game cards and game cards for the Nintendo DS™ family of systems, an SD memory card slot, an AC adapter connector, a charging cradle terminal and a stereo headphone output jack.

Sound:

Stereo speakers positioned to the left and right of the top screen.

Battery:

Lithium ion battery details TBA.

Languages:

TBA

Parental Controls:

Parental controls similar to the Nintendo DSi system will be included.

Example of it's graphical power:

Day one purchase for me. =D

Not to mention all the great games that are coming out for it.

Edited June 16, 2010 by Ferno

[Conando]

Like I said, this isn't even the right game. The one you're looking for is Mask of Miracle. Anyway, I don't see what's wrong with ports considering there's a strong showing of originals too. Paper Mario, new Animal Crossing, Kid Icarus, Nintendogs+cats, Resident Evil Revelations, etc.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Hero Of Fate

[Tornado]

$100 says new Animal Crossing will be Animal Crossing 64 Version 5.

Edited June 15, 2010 by Tornado

[Iceman Etika]

unless there's a diff. 8O

[Phos]

I am rocking the shit out of the hot rod.

[PSI Wind]

^ oh yeah . Please combine maybe.

Edited June 15, 2010 by PSI Wind FTW!

[Conando]

Shit. Do I want the Red one or the blue one? They're both awesome.

[Velotix von Skruviktorrius]

So yeah I may end up buying two they're just that ridiculously awesome.

[Flyboy Fox]

^ oh yeah . Please combine maybe.

Merged, biznitches (;

[Noir]

The blue 3DS is the most beautiful gaming system I have ever seen and oh my god I can NOT WAIT to call it mine.

Oh and that 3D thing is cool too. I guess.

BUT MAN IS THAT PRETTY.

[Candescence]

God DAMN. The 3DS looks amazing, as does the games. I love it.

[Cortez]

I think it's safe to say at this point that te 3DS will have it's own Mii Channel, they appear in both the background of Mario Kart 3DS and Nintendogs + Cats.

Gah, that sucks, I was hoping that Microsoft's Avatars would push Nintendo to give the Miis abit more depth but it seems that isn't going to happen.

[Saint Nathan]

That... is fucking amazing.

Oh gods, do I want blue or red? Neeerrrggghhh the DS is always the same red as my mom's mustang and that's a pretty awesome but that blue one looks like orgasm in a handheld.

Oh, and holy shit the graphical quality looks great. Hopefully they'll look better on the console itself.

and please be at least as slim as the DSi don't make it huge and make seven smaller ones later nintendo.

[Tornado]

Looking at a hi-res pic of it (specifically, this one), I've noticed that the hinge on this appears to be made in a way that won't break if you sneeze on it, so they've already responded to that. They've also moved away from the dumb speaker design that they implemented on the DSi and back to the one on the DS Light.

That being said, the analog stick looks like it is in a weird place (there is a corollary to this. If it works like the one on the NGPC, I won't have a problem with it), the analog stick looks weird in general (see above NGPC comment), and there still isn't a screen brightness control button. The 4x3 touch screen makes me cautious as well.

Also, where is the microphone?

Edited June 16, 2010 by Tornado