Sonic 4 interview in latest Nintendo Power

[Tornado]

Nah, you seem pretty set in your ways that Sonic 2 has (in your esteemed opinion) awful level design. What good would a discussion do?

Allow others to form opinions about whether or not it is a good thing? If I hit some kind of nerve with my post I apologize, but I also don't particularly care to censor myself just because what I'm saying may be unpopular. Sonic 2 had the cheapest, most unfair and poorly balanced level design of the classics. I've discussed my hope that the level design would not be like Sonic 2; including multiple times in the huge, now-locked Project Needlemouse thread. And displaying my displeasure that Sonic 2 style level design is confirmed seemed like a natural enough reaction. So what is your beef?

You asked for fruit to be thrown, not for a discussion.

Seemed like a pretty obvious joke to me.

Edited March 10, 2010 by Tornado

[Detective Shadzter]

As long as it stays with Eggman as the main villain throughout all the episodes it'll be awesome, no monster-of-the-week please. Giant-deadly-Eggman-robot-of-doom-of-the-week though? Hell YES!

Exactly, I don't understand why Eggman has been demoted for so many years. There is no point in keeping him around as a character if he's not going to get to play the role he was given at the beginning. I was soooooo happy in Sonic Advance 1 and 2 to see him back as the main enemy with his challenging final boss creations. I don't know how you guys feel on this but in my oppinion monsters just don't fit right in Sonic games, robots/machines all the way

[Eternlo]

I like both monsters and machines, but a robot as the final boss is always better.

The only things that dont fit in a sonic game are... Realistic Humans, like Sonic 06, they looked so ugly, i had nightmares for a week after seeing them.

[Rusty Spy]

Allow others to form opinions about whether or not it is a good thing? If I hit some kind of nerve with my post I apologize, but I also don't particularly care to censor myself just because what I'm saying may be unpopular. Sonic 2 had the cheapest, most unfair and poorly balanced level design of the classics. I've discussed my hope that the level design would not be like Sonic 2; including multiple times in the huge, now-locked Project Needlemouse thread. And displaying my displeasure that Sonic 2 style level design is confirmed seemed like a natural enough reaction. So what is your beef?

I wouldn't worry too much about the level design. It's not like they're going to copy-pasta pieces of levels from S2. I mean, other than Sonic 1 and CD, the level design of 2 and 3 isn't all to different, and I'm certain the level design of 4 will have it's own vibe too.

[SykoTech]

XBOX Mag says there are no cutscenes. Does this mean we won't even get the likes of the cutscenes seen in Sonic 3? Because I thought those were brilliant... finding out how Sonic got from zone to zone is something I've missed in all the Advance games...

So yeah, I'm hoping there will but cutscenes, but small ones. The classic fans spreading around their hate for every little miniscule cutscene must have completely forgotten about S3&K's existence.

Well, this episode is suppose to end on a cliff hanger if one gets all the Chaos Emeralds. So there's got to be some kind of cutscene present. It would really be awesome if they had transitions between levels and in levels though.

[Aquaslash]

I too support Eggman as the final threat.

The monsters are ok in moderation. I'd like to see Eggman retain control of one for once.

[Barry the Nomad]

Picked up the Nintendo Power issue despite already seeing the scans. I had to have a physical copy to look at whenever I wanted

I think I may just buy every magazine I see with Sonic 4 on the cover.

[Eternlo]

I wonder if they'll give us another video soon?

[Dreadknux]

I'll admit, I'm a bit uneasy about the Sonic 2 level design part. Don't get me wrong, it's a good game. But I felt that some parts were quite 'meh'. I like Sonic 1's designs a little bit more, and S3&K level design is infinitely superior. If Mad Gear Zone ends up being as annoying as Metropolis Zone is, I'll be unpleased. And seeing as how Shellcracker is back...ugh.

Bear in mind that inspired by Sonic 2 != carbon copy of Sonic 2 style levels, despite what Iizuka said. Remember, in that same interview Iizuka said he was directly inspired by Sonic 2 when creating stages for Sonic 3 & Knuckles - a game that a lot of people here reckon has the best 2D stage design.

My reaction to the magazine? It says more about our fanbase than Sega 'justifying themselves'.

I think if these past few weeks have taught us anything, it's that we should not take PR quotes etc on face value, and if we are to provide comment or speculation on what was said, use the imagination and think outside of the box. People moaned about the boss being a 'rehash' because they didn't think outside of the box. Now look, those same people are praising the fact that it's different - something that should have probably been obvious the second SEGA said it wasn't a "remake" (back when the thing was called Project Needlemouse). People moaned about the level design, and the homing attack, and the badniks because they didn't think outside of the box. Now, it seems like they have also been proven wrong on that front.

Of course, the only way to know for sure is to play the game, but I hope everyone here has learnt from this escapade to exercise a little more humility and level-headedness, and less of the pubescent "OMG RAEG" snap-reactions that I would sooner expect on lameFAQs or dare I say it, the official Sega forums (shudder). It's childish and embarrassing. I'm proud that our forums have a pretty cool-headed community for the most part, but sometimes a few of you can get a little out there. Let's bring it back to chill level now, shall we?

Game's sounding better by the minute, personally. The HA twist is a welcome one, if they're going to go ahead with including it, and if it's true that Sega's making it optional then there's really nothing else to talk about. Everyone's happy. I expected the boss to have those different attributes, it was only a matter of time before a publication was actually allowed to mention it (and that's the worst thing about leaks; because did Endri showcase that particular part of the boss? I'm sure it would have generated less hate if he did - thank you, classic fanboy ulterior motive! ). And Sonic 2 = win - as I said before, being inspired by Sonic 2 will hopefully lead to great things in level design rather than a carbon copy.

And for the love of God, I know people prefer Classic Sonic design - I do too, and I've got nothing against people who say they'd prefer to see classic in Sonic 4 instead of modern - but I hope we can evolve as a species and learn to accept that the way Sonic looks is really not all that important to the potential excellence/crappiness of this game. Especially when, going at top speed, he looks almost the bloody same!

[Phos]

I think if these past few weeks have taught us anything, it's that we should not take PR quotes etc on face value, and if we are to provide comment or speculation on what was said, use the imagination and think outside of the box. People moaned about the boss being a 'rehash' because they didn't think outside of the box. Now look, those same people are praising the fact that it's different - something that should have probably been obvious the second SEGA said it wasn't a "remake" (back when the thing was called Project Needlemouse). People moaned about the level design, and the homing attack, and the badniks because they didn't think outside of the box. Now, it seems like they have also been proven wrong on that front.

:|

The homing attack is being used in the exact way its naysayers predicted it would be used. They're using those non collidable springs and those convex rounded embankments seen in almost every Sonic game I don't like. It also appears to have a lot of the same enemy placement shenanigans I've come to expect from Dimps. And last but not least, it's being directed by Takashi Iizuka. To be honest, the others are like a drop in the pan compared to that last one, making it not a question of "Will it be good or not" but rather a question off "How bad will it be?".

[The-Master-Board]

Eh, That interview didn't really sway me in the slightest. I have no doubt this game will be better than most of the Sonic dribble that's been pumped out recently (SatBK, Sonic Unleashed etc.) but I doubt this will deserve the title of Sonic4.

It baffles me why they thought the homing attack was necessary, it is the most redundant thing I could possibly think of in a 2D game. Sadly it seems badniks (especially bubbles from those screenshots) will be delegated to nothing more than glorified stepping stones, and the boring mashing of a button will be all the skill that's needed to pass a level. That's not mentioning bosses who will be anything but a challenge if the homing attack has anything to do with it.

If the homing attack makes it in and the super peel out move doesn't that's a terrible design choice.

Dash panels look like they're back yay. Though I suppose I shouldn't comment prematurely to knowing any better, I am skeptical that there will be any level specific gimmicks though.

That first screenshot looks to me like Sonic has a shield too, and it looks to be the modern green one rather than the blue - never liked the green one.

Also more than likely based on Sonic2? Hmm Sonic 2 was good, but I think this should really be taking pages from Sonic3 and Knuckles; the levels were bigger, more diverse, and well designed. Sonic2 was fun but it can't compare to the coolness and diversity of the zones from S3&K.

Only 4 zones to this? That annoys me. I am going to go to all the trouble of getting stupid console internet set up to download this and its gonna be over in probably less time than it'll take me to download it!? No thanks. Wake me up when this has come out as a full game on a PROPER physical disc. If they are going to tease as much as they have been doing then this better be damn well worth it. Four zones of only slightly altered asthetics/badniks/bosses with non-classic Sonic isn't going to cut it - unless Super Sonic in game turns out to be more than a rumor.

Talking about that, I find Iizuka's comment a real cop-out. As you may know, all Sonic character designs changed in 1998, so since then all new titles have those new designs. Bull-fucking-shit! You also changed the surreal fantasy-like colourful designs of the levels and changed the basic storylines to over-the-top drama-fests that all involve Eggman be usurped by some large asinine monster - that doesn't mean you're going to continue those follies. You are going back to the classics Iizuka, afterall this is Sonic4 (Or so you are claiming) you don't try to emulate the classics by making the levels realistic, adding a stupid dramatic plot, subverting Eggman and throwing a new character in - No, you keep the levels whimsical and classic, the plot simplistic, and have Eggman FINALLY the main threat again ~ so likewise you have classic Sonic rather than the modern design.

If this were a new game I'd be all for Sonic's modern design, but this is Sonic4 - at least acknowledge that alot of the fans you're supposedly meant to be appealing to would prefer the option to choose a classic model, the way he casually brushes off the idea as if the asker of the question is stupid is annoying.

I am getting less and less excited for this as time goes on, hopefully my low hopes will equal great happiness if this game pleasantly surprizes me.

[Dreadknux]

The homing attack is being used in the exact way its naysayers predicted it would be used.

Naysayers predicted 'spam A button'. Even if that is the case, you don't know it, and I don't know it, so you have no grounds to assume as such. Signs are pointing to the contrary, however.

They're using those non collidable springs and those convex rounded embankments seen in almost every Sonic game I don't like.

Fair enough.

It also appears to have a lot of the same enemy placement shenanigans I've come to expect from Dimps.

I've personally never found Dimps' enemy placement to be a problem (barring Advance 2) but okay.

And last but not least, it's being directed by Takashi Iizuka. To be honest, the others are like a drop in the pan compared to that last one, making it not a question of "Will it be good or not" but rather a question off "How bad will it be?".

See, I understand that this guy has burned us a million times in the past already, but this auto-assuming business is the kind of over-emotional reaction I'm talking about. How about we actually see some concrete evidence that this will suck before railing on the guy further? How about exercising a bit of laid-back maturity around here?

There's not really anything here that you can say makes it not worth your interest, besides the whole "OMG GREEN EYES" nonsense. You can not hold out hope, sure. But outright calling the game 'teh suck' because this guy's on board is a little bit pathetic.

[Phos]

Naysayers predicted 'spam A button'. Even if that is the case, you don't know it, and I don't know it, so you have no grounds to assume as such. Signs are pointing to the contrary, however.

I was actually refferimg to the "cross the gap on the chain or enemies" thing, actually, though we haven't seen anything to suggest that the HA can't be used for instant speed.

See, I understand that this guy has burned us a million times in the past already, but this auto-assuming business is the kind of over-emotional reaction I'm talking about. How about we actually see some concrete evidence that this will suck before railing on the guy further? How about exercising a bit of laid-back maturity around here?

I learned a lot about how Iizuka thinks from closely following JoD's development. He has strange priorities and can't seem to tell the difference between a good idea or a bad idea.

[Carbo]

I was actually refferimg to the "cross the gap on the chain or enemies" thing, actually, though we haven't seen anything to suggest that the HA can't be used for instant speed.

You DO know that can imply bottomless pits as much as it can imply alternate path by using another technique, right?

[SykoTech]

Bear in mind that inspired by Sonic 2 != carbon copy of Sonic 2 style levels, despite what Iizuka said. Remember, in that same interview Iizuka said he was directly inspired by Sonic 2 when creating stages for Sonic 3 & Knuckles - a game that a lot of people here reckon has the best 2D stage design.

That's true. And it's not like I'm frightened by his statement or am thinking this is going to be a rehash anyway. Let's just say that I would have been a bit more comfortable if Sonic 3 & Knuckles was the primary game being looked back on when making Sonic 4. Still, I'll be reserving judgement until I get a longer look. Besides, I thought the level design from the leaked footage looked good. That's more important than a PR statement.

[Tornado]

Bear in mind that inspired by Sonic 2 != carbon copy of Sonic 2 style levels, despite what Iizuka said.

"Inspired by Sonic 2" seems like its enough to me to cause worry, particularly when the game itself is being created by the same developer that took Sonic 2's exact problems and turned them up to 11 for three games straight.

Edited March 11, 2010 by Tornado

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Eh, That interview didn't really sway me in the slightest. I have no doubt this game will be better than most of the Sonic dribble that's been pumped out recently (SatBK, Sonic Unleashed etc.) but I doubt this will deserve the title of Sonic4.

It may not feel like a Sonic 4, but titles really don't mean anything on quality. Sonic 06 was a more jacked up version of Sonic Adventure 1, so the game might as well be Sonic Adventure 3 (or 4, or 5, however you want to go about it)

It baffles me why they thought the homing attack was necessary, it is the most redundant thing I could possibly think of in a 2D game.

To add to the gameplay like they just said in the magazine? There's still the matter of how it'll be in action so it's really anyone's guess as to whether it'll be a good addition, but you're really just jumping to conclusions or not thinking outside the box as Dread said if you couldn't catch why they added it.

The never said it was necessary, but they wanted to add to the experience in the game. That's what making a sequel is about, right? But based on what was mentioned, signs are pointing to it being a good addition than a detrimental one. Of course, we haven't exactly had that experience yet.

Sadly it seems badniks (especially bubbles from those screenshots) will be delegated to nothing more than glorified stepping stones, and the boring mashing of a button will be all the skill that's needed to pass a level.

And how is that worse than having most of them just wander around a small potion of the stage ignoring you for the most part like a lot of them did in the past?

While some badniks tried to shoot at you with projectiles or tried to tail you if you were within sight, a good majority of them back were only threatening if you touched them. Other than that, they wouldn't even bother with you at all.

So if there's anything more to use the badniks for, why not as stepping stones? Most of them never required any skill of any sort to beat before (Unidus was just a cheap pain in the ass, as were the badniks in Metropolis), so how is actually using them for something more than just racking up points a bad thing?

That's not mentioning bosses who will be anything but a challenge if the homing attack has anything to do with it.

The very first boss will start spining the wrecking ball in a 360 degree motion right after the third hit. That would make using the homing attack more challenging if timed wrongly. So the bosses will still likely be a challenge as far as the information we have goes.

If the homing attack makes it in and the super peel out move doesn't that's a terrible design choice.

How so? I see it the other way.

The Super peel out move was used for just speed, while being practically defenseless if an enemy does happen to get into your way. The only reason I think the peel out was made in the first place was so it could better utilize Sonic CD's mechanic of traveling to the past/present/future time periods of the game when you increased your speed. Aside from that, it's not exactly a useful move to use at all when the Spindash already has the same function with added defense in case an enemy might be in front of you from off screen, which probably answers why they've never used it since then for Sonic's gameplay.

The homing attack can serve Sonic in a similar way it would when Sonic had the fire shield in Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Sonic had the most limited exploration in the game even with the shields, so the HA can allow Sonic more vertical exploration in the similar sense as Tails' flight and Knuckles' climbing abilities.

That first screenshot looks to me like Sonic has a shield too, and it looks to be the modern green one rather than the blue - never liked the green one.

Because it was green, or what? They served the same function, how is it a problem with it being a different color?

Talking about that, I find Iizuka's comment a real cop-out. As you may know, all Sonic character designs changed in 1998, so since then all new titles have those new designs. Bull-fucking-shit! You also changed the surreal fantasy-like colourful designs of the levels and changed the basic storylines to over-the-top drama-fests that all involve Eggman be usurped by some large asinine monster - that doesn't mean you're going to continue those follies. You are going back to the classics Iizuka, afterall this is Sonic4 (Or so you are claiming) you don't try to emulate the classics by making the levels realistic, adding a stupid dramatic plot, subverting Eggman and throwing a new character in - No, you keep the levels whimsical and classic, the plot simplistic, and have Eggman FINALLY the main threat again ~ so likewise you have classic Sonic rather than the modern design.

All this just because he didn't use classic Sonic? Someones blowing it a bit out of proption here over green eyes and a streamlined body.

If this were a new game I'd be all for Sonic's modern design, but this is Sonic4 - at least acknowledge that alot of the fans you're supposedly meant to be appealing to would prefer the option to choose a classic model, the way he casually brushes off the idea as if the asker of the question is stupid is annoying.

Sonic 4 IS a new game, by which it therefore suits the reason why it is using the Modern Design rather than the Classic design based off of what you said. Iizuka said it himself that this is a new game, and it should've been obvious from the very moment the game was called Project Needlemouse that this would be a new game. Either way, Classic, Modern, or whatever, it's just silly to be this fussy over it. I expected Classic Sonic as much as anyone else did, and I was surprised at the modern one being used, but seriously, all this complaining over the model? If the game ends up playing in the same fashion as the Classics only with added mechanics to better add to the experience, why should it matter?

And furthermore, how can you tell how he just brushes off the idea like the asker is stupid? The person asked the question and he gave the answer. He could've been respectful about for all we know. That just sounds like complaining just to complain in order to make fire by twisting his tone to give you a reason to fuss.

Edited March 12, 2010 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[choir123_6]

I have this like amazing brand new information for you haters

REGARDLESS OF IF YOU DUB IT THE OFFICIAL SONIC 4 OR NOT, SEGA HAS ALLOWED THIS TO BE SONIC 4! SO SHUT YOUR PIE HOLES, GET OVER IT! I'D LOVE TO SEE YOU GUYS MAKE A PERFECT SONIC 4 THAT APPEALS TO EVERYONE

*mumbles* >>

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I have this like amazing brand new information for you haters

REGARDLESS OF IF YOU DUB IT THE OFFICIAL SONIC 4 OR NOT, SEGA HAS ALLOWED THIS TO BE SONIC 4! SO SHUT YOUR PIE HOLES, GET OVER IT! I'D LOVE TO SEE YOU GUYS MAKE A PERFECT SONIC 4 THAT APPEALS TO EVERYONE

*mumbles* >>

A little whiny in itself, don'cha think? I can understand where you're coming from, but that looks like you're blowing it out of proportion yourself here.

[Gamerguy21]

If people are smart they would do what I'm going to do. When the trial is available for Sonic 4, download it. If you like it, then buy it. If you don't like it, than don't.

That's what I wish everyone would do instead of "lol guize, let's boycott it before giving it a chance and buy sonic 1 instead!!111!1!!".

[Aquaslash]

Sonic 06 was a new game. What happened there?

Hell, Sonic Heroes was a new game, what's up with Rouge's outfit, and Metal Sonic in general?

You know, what, I'm gonna go there. BOTH SONIC RIDERS GAMES were new, what the heck happened there?

Lame copout is lame.

EDIT: Let me go even further! Metal Sonic and Super Sonic today don't look a blasted thing like they did in 1998! What happened to your oh so "permanent designs" Iizuka?!

EDIT: WAIT A MINUTE, LET ME GET SCREENSHOTS!

This is TOTALLY what Super Sonic looks like today! Right guys?!

Edited March 12, 2010 by Aquaslash

[Nepenthe]

Oh please. You're ignoring the fact that the old design was subjected to different art styles as well as well context of Iizuka's statement. He's not equating different renderings or artistry with completely different iterations of the character. He's making only two distinctions-- Green eyes and black eyes. Green eyes represents the new Sonic games made since 1998. This is a new Sonic game made after 1998. Therefore, they're going to use green eyes. This isn't a "copout." It's simple logic.

And I wonder, what exactly would you consider satisfactory reasoning for the decision, or is there simply no excuse for this "travesty?"

[Aquaslash]

Oh please. You're ignoring the fact that the old design was subjected to different art styles as well as well context of Iizuka's statement. He's not equating different renderings or artistry with completely different iterations of the character. He's making only two distinctions-- Green eyes and black eyes. Green eyes represents the new Sonic games made since 1998. This is a new Sonic game made after 1998. Therefore, they're going to use green eyes. This isn't a "copout." It's simple logic.

And I wonder, what exactly would you consider satisfactory reasoning for the decision, or is there simply no excuse for this "travesty?"

No, the case of the looks in 06 and Riders is pretty damn blatant. The difference in art styles in the classics didn't compare to those changes. Or do I need to pull out Eggman pictures?

Also, a less BS excuse would involve not alienating the kiddies (though one only needs to pull out the boxes of the collections and it falls flat on it's face)

Lastly, I really don't care about the designs to much. The modern one is pretty slick, but I HAD to call out the obvious PR bull crap.

EDIT: OH and if we're gonna harp on a change as small as eye color to back up our claims, I'm gonna have to stay harping on the changes to Super Sonic's quills, especially in the span of three games. (OH, and Rouge's clothes too, which like to change in almost every game she's in)

Edited March 12, 2010 by Aquaslash

[Gamerguy21]

Also, a less BS excuse would involve not alienating the kiddies (though one only needs to pull out the boxes of the collections and it falls flat on it's face)

...What's your point? The only collection game that had classic Sonic on the cover was SUGC (which didn't even have Sonic on the cover in the UK verison).

[Diogenes]

Every iteration of Sonic from SA onward is identifiable as being based on the modern design. None of them can be mistaken as an example of the classic design (as the nerdrage over Sonic's design clearly proves), and none are distinct enough to justify making a third category (not any more than Spinball's sprites deserve to be recognized as a separate design).

Iizuka wasn't talking about specific instances of each group, but of the two groups themselves. He didn't pick Unleashed Sonic over S3&K Sonic, he picked modern over classic, and for a perfectly understandable reason: it's 2010, not 1991, and they're going to stick with the same core design they've used in everything since '98 rather than regressing to the earlier design.

This isn't PR bullshit. Stop being a spaz.