Sonic Frontiers - Review Roundup.

[light-gaia]

7 minutes ago, Jake_LeOFFICIAL said:

Arlo literally said he enjoyed Sonic Frontiers what the fuck are you talking about

I probably mistook the name of the YouTuber I was actually referring to, but anyway...

[Shaddy Zaphod]

40 minutes ago, light-gaia said:

That's why it's called opinion. I can have an opinion that a game deserve more, or deserve less. What's the problem with that? You are basically doing the same thing here when you say Sonic Boom deserved more than 2006. But, for some reason, you think I'm not allowed to do the same.

You're not treating it like an opinion. You're literally using this as an example of why it's wrong for me to call a comparison of 06 and RoL fallacious.

40 minutes ago, light-gaia said:

By people who agree with me that their arguments aren't good.

So...an echo chamber, then.

40 minutes ago, light-gaia said:

Dude, reviews are not a sacred word, they are subject to other people's judgement the same way the game is.

Cool, never said this, I don't even think the digital trends review is good, please respond to what I'm saying instead of what's most convenient.

40 minutes ago, light-gaia said:

If criticizing a review is rude, then criticizing a game would be rude, too. And that doesn't make any sense. Saying a review is bad it's not personal, the same way saying a game is bad is not personal. Simple as that.

And yet, when I criticize your take on the review...

40 minutes ago, light-gaia said:

Because you are not only disagreeing with me, you are also saying I can't have this opinion

No I'm not.

40 minutes ago, light-gaia said:

and that my opinion is "rude".

This still is not "forcing you to think like me", that's just you getting upset that I said a thing you didn't like. What am I supposed to do, pretend you're treating the discussion with nuance when you aren't?

40 minutes ago, light-gaia said:

I said it's illegitimate because I think the review is poorly written and have incoherent arguments. The rest is speculation of yours.

You very specifically framed them as being unfair, not simply of poor workmanship. For example, you presented criticizing the game's graphics as an innate fallacy, and said it was "absurd" to claim the game didn't look good. But unless you're citing specific talk about graphical fidelity (which you aren't, even if you think you are), that's not an invalid criticism at all. People have been complaining about this game's visuals since it was first revealed, and while I think it looks alright, it's not like I wouldn't prefer a more colorful and stylistic world. Let's be honest: if the review was this badly-constructed but gave the game a 100, would you discount it the same for skewing the metascore in the other direction? You can say "yes", but I'm not going to believe you.

40 minutes ago, light-gaia said:

Or should I say straw man fallacy?

No, because that's not what a straw man is.

40 minutes ago, light-gaia said:

And my comment wasn't directed towards anyone. I was just sharing my perspective in a thread that the main objective is to discuss Sonic Frontiers' reviews. Saying I was trying to provoke other users in some way is totally weird because most people in this thread agreed that Digital Trends' review is bad.

Wow. Good thing I didn't say that, then.

40 minutes ago, light-gaia said:

I brought the example that they said Frontiers has awful graphics. And that was one of the reasons why they gave the game a score that low. It's objectively not true because graphics is a technical and objective topic. They didn't say they don't like Frontiers' art style or presentation, which would be subjective, they said the graphics are awful. The fact that the review doesn't know that graphics is not subjective and there is a difference between art style, presentation and graphics (from a technical standpoint), is one of the indicatives of how bad their review is.

It's hilarious that you say this immediately after accusing me of making a strawman argument. You can actually very clearly see that they're complaining about the visual style and presentation when they talk about the "realism" in the environments as compared to the "stylistic" art of other Sonic games. If this whole thing is founded on you acting like people don't use "graphics" as a synonym for "visuals" all the damn time, then that's just unbelievably dishonest.

40 minutes ago, light-gaia said:

Other thing is when they say the game shouldn't have a story. They didn't say they think the story has flaws, they criticize the mere existence of the story. That doesn't make any sense. Specially when, again, that was one of the reasons they lowered the score. The cutscenes are not mandatory to watch, if you don't care about the story, you can just skip all of them and focus on the gameplay. Therefore, this argument is also incoherent.

The cyberspace levels aren't mandatory to play. Does that mean they can't be criticized, even for being in the game at all?

And before you try to draw a distinction between the story and the gameplay contents, ask yourself who gets to decide which of those is more important to the reviewer.

Also, none of these are what "incoherent" means. Just because a take is wrong to you doesn't mean it makes zero sense.

40 minutes ago, light-gaia said:

I didn't answer that before because you said you aren't interested in this discussion, and I was responding your speculative and straw man fallacy arguments about me.

Yet more slander. Obviously if I keep telling you to elaborate, I want you to elaborate, dude.

40 minutes ago, light-gaia said:

Well, first of all, I wasn't referring to all reviews, I was referring to just a few that are poorly written. The biggest example is Digital Trends'. That are negative reviews Frontiers got that I don't think are poorly written. For example, Arlo made a negative review about Frontiers and I don't think his review is poor, even if I don't agree with some of his points. You are apparently thinking I'm defending ALL reviews that are not favorable to Frontiers should be removed, and that's not the case at all.

Well obviously not all of them; just all the ones you subjectively feel like should. And that's the problem. That's the thing I'm taking issue with. You're saying that there's some threshold where a critique doesn't get to be valid, but your only criteria in this (which, even if you claim you aren't, is something you clearly see as worth putting out there) seems to be whether it feels right to you.

40 minutes ago, light-gaia said:

Second, it's totally possible that some overly-positive reviews about Frontiers' is as incoherent, poorly written and hyperbolic as Digital Trends', but in the opposite direction. I haven't read all 50+ reviews to say for sure. If someone thinks a positive review is flawed and is inaccurate, I don't have any problem with the person having this opinion.

But are you going to belittle and possibly straight-up lie about them, too? Remember, consistency is key. After all you've said, I just can't fathom a world where a shallow and uncritical review praising the game wouldn't go over well with you.

 

3 minutes ago, light-gaia said:

Again, it's a matter of perspective. If you think my perspective is flawed. Keep thinking it, that doesn't change what I think.

Now, can we please move on?

 

Why do you keep running with this narrative that I'm trying to change your mind here? If you're allowed to claim that your poor critique of a review is meant for nobody and should be allowed to quietly fade into the void where nobody cares about it, can't my sexy and awesome criticism of your posts exist in the same idiom? If you're not trying to convince anyone of anything, why even respond? Why can't you move on?

[Cayenne]

Destructoid's Review: https://www.destructoid.com/reviews/review-sonic-frontiers/ - 7 (Good)

Quote

Solid and definitely have an audience. There could be some hard-to-ignore faults, but the experience is fun.

 

[Sega DogTagz]

I legit felt like docking the game a few points after the BS they pulled in the finishing minigame

 

Spoiler

Not being able to dredge up Froggy for big points it a monster missed opportunity. As is the giant chomper from Gens. I know they have the asset for it on hand!

 

[DaBigJ]

The Jimquisition review is out, and man it's harsh

https://www.thejimquisition.com/post/sonic-frontiers-a-load-of-blue-balls-review

But I'm SURE people will be respectful online while talking about this review.....

........right?

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/review/sonic-frontiers/

VGC gave their review of the game. Overall, a positive one:

• Quote

   

  • Exploring its open worlds is a treat
  • A healthy selection of linear stages to play through too
  • A solid 20-hour adventure with a surprisingly engaging plot
  • Visually gorgeous at times on current-gen, and the soundtrack is superb

   

   

Were their main points of praise in summary.

The summary of their issues with the game were stated as such:

Quote

Camera and controls still occasionally play up, though they've been tightened up a lot

 

Overall score: 4 out of 5 stars.

[KHCast]

7 hours ago, Jake_LeOFFICIAL said:

The Jimquisition review is out, and man it's harsh

https://www.thejimquisition.com/post/sonic-frontiers-a-load-of-blue-balls-review

But I'm SURE people will be respectful online while talking about this review.....

........right?

I’m looking on Twitter and at the QT’s…and yeah this is shaping up to make stephs botw review reception look like a tea party oh god.

 

I can see why Steph feels the way they do and even can agree with a lot of what they’re saying, but even if I may not go as far to call this a 1/10, my heart goes out to their mentions over the next few days 

[Sonicka]

7 hours ago, Jake_LeOFFICIAL said:

The Jimquisition review is out, and man it's harsh

https://www.thejimquisition.com/post/sonic-frontiers-a-load-of-blue-balls-review

But I'm SURE people will be respectful online while talking about this review.....

........right?

Full disclosure; I love JSS's content... but it's pretty clear that they did not enjoy playing this game.

Their opinions are fair enough and a couple of the criticisms made I think are valid, but the angry rant towards the end went quite a bit off point which I think just overran into the melodramatic 1.5/10 score. There are some (legitimately) very bad Sonic games out there, but I'd strongly argue that this is is simply not one of them (or near those black sheep favourites that are Boom and '06).

Anyway, although I personally disagree with them, I can fathom a decent guess at what the next Jimquistion is going to be about if the fanbase aren't respectful. 

[ZinogreVolt]

8 hours ago, Jake_LeOFFICIAL said:

The Jimquisition review is out, and man it's harsh

https://www.thejimquisition.com/post/sonic-frontiers-a-load-of-blue-balls-review

But I'm SURE people will be respectful online while talking about this review.....

........right?

What a perfect consolidation of everything wrong with numerical scores for games. Good lord.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

6 minutes ago, ZinogreVolt said:

What a perfect consolidation of everything wrong with numerical scores for games. Good lord.

Yeah, honestly, ever since their disastrous review of Colors, I just know to steer clear of Steph on most of everything these days, yeesh.

[KHCast]

12 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

Yeah, honestly, ever since their disastrous review of Colors, I just know to steer clear of Steph on most of everything these days, yeesh.

Most of their content is fine tbh, the only real “controversies” that don’t come from Gamer TM bros being mad about shit like abuse being talked about or marginalized people talking about their experiences come from their review scores, which is probably the most tame thing for people to get upset at them over nowadays lol. I personally wouldn’t use a review to avoid them, but that’s just me

 

I do think they went a bit extreme on the review granted so can see why some are very vocal on their disagreement 

[ZinogreVolt]

Just now, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

Yeah, honestly, ever since their disastrous review of Colors, I just know to steer clear of Steph on most of everything these days, yeesh.

I heavily dislike their style of game discussion, even well outside of Sonic's scope. I don't want to call them insincere outright, since that's just not fair. But they have an overt reliance on hyperbole and making cynical, meanspirited jabs at the game developers (calling Sonic Team 'lazy hack fucks' verbatim, are you kidding me?) that turns their reviews into white noise and calls into question whether they were engaging with products in good faith or not. It doesn't happen all the time, but it happens just enough for me to say without question that their takes aren't something I'm going to take seriously.

[KHCast]

8 minutes ago, ZinogreVolt said:

calling Sonic Team 'lazy hack fucks' verbatim, are you kidding me?

They didn’t do that, that is misinformation being spread, they made a comparison to lazy steam green light devs, saying that they felt very similarly playing frontiers as they did when they played games from those “developers”

 

It helps that steph is a advocate of better employee working conditions and has actively made it a thing in the past to discourage things like calling devs at these studios “lazy”

[ZinogreVolt]

Just now, KHCast said:

They didn’t do that, that is misinformation being spread, they made a comparison to lazy steam green light devs, saying that they felt very similarly playing frontiers as they did when they played games from those “developers”

It helps that steph is a advocate of better employee working conditions and has actively made it a thing in the past to discourage things like calling devs at these studios “laz

Ah, disregard that part then

[Soniman]

Just saw this review but tbh I’m not really surprised the person who gave BOTW a 7 and Colors a 4 hates this games so abjectly, they have a extremely low tolerance for BS in games to begin with. Though even then a 1/10 is pretty ridiculous 

[KHCast]

Regardless how people feel over Stephs review, maybe some of the more passionate fans shouldn’t be using this as a excuse to hurl transphobia, and go posting salt about the review on tweets of theirs that have nothing to do with said review (no joke, I saw people posting salty replies about the review on tweets steph was making regarding actual transphobia and discrimination going on in the country they’re in) Like, Jesus, the frontiers discourse sometimes gets exhausting online 

[Rabbitearsblog]

13 hours ago, Jake_LeOFFICIAL said:

But I'm SURE people will be respectful online while talking about this review.....

........right?

Yeah....about that...

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Welp. Figured it was going to get to the point of people accusing positive reviews of being paid off.

[PickleBrows]

I'm really curious about the 'global playtest' thing. Are they actually intending to release future QOL fixes/changes to the game or does he just mean they're collecting feedback to help shape the next game?

If they have dlc plans, some minor updates alongside to help try and improve things like pop-in would be nice.

[juiceDpunk983]

Makes you wonder if Sega is here on this site lurking and seeing all our opinions on the game.

Hi Sonic Team

All jokes aside, I love this game and they have a foundation that I'd like to see them keep for future games. Loving the combat, expand on it by giving us more moves in future games. Give us Shadow as I think combat fits the character. Open Zone is nice, just keep improving on it, there are times where I'm locked in 2D but don't want to be in that section. Cyberspace feels weird, don't know how to explain it, except the physics feel off but that only applies in cyberspace. Love the characters interactions, especially Knuckles with Sonic, them scenes are pure gold. Super Sonic is the best part of the game, FACE YOUR FEAR! The tone is good and fits the series. I get chronicles vibes with the combat, always wanted more combat in sonic thanks to that game and Heroes, I like the combat direction with the open zone.

Yeah I don't write reviews but hopefully you get the gist. All in all, you did good sonic team. With this foundation, you are truly undefeatable.

PS Give us a Super Hard Mode pls, I like difficult battles, staying low level throughout the game is a blast. Oh and perhaps a new game plus or something for the people that have Max Level Sonic.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

1 hour ago, PickleBrows said:

I'm really curious about the 'global playtest' thing. Are they actually intending to release future QOL fixes/changes to the game or does he just mean they're collecting feedback to help shape the next game?

If they have dlc plans, some minor updates alongside to help try and improve things like pop-in would be nice.

Probably the latter, but I’d hope the former. Even if there was options to unlock stuff like uncapped momentum and the like in the options and to further tailor Sonic’s playstyle to how you want it. 

It really shouldn’t be such a big deal though. Global playtest might be too strong a word, but any developer worth their salt is obviously gonna be hearing for feedback on their newest project, and try to use that to inform what they should do with a new game, and people taking that as “IM PAYING FOR A DEMO????” is pretty silly. Given that they have said over and over that they wanted Frontiers to be their springboard for future games, it makes sense they wanna get a grasp on what can be improved for a future outing, barring the polish and the like.

The question here is if Sonic Team will take the right criticism from this. Take a balanced approach and not throw out the good Frontiers has in a attempt to completely scorch earth it again for the umpteenth time and send us back to Square 1. Hopefully, the positive attention, numerous reviews citing it as a excellent starting point for the future, and the seemingly good sales based off Steam means that Sonic Team will listen and recognise the buzz surrounding the game, especially compared to past outings like Forces, and realise “alright, there’s something special here”. 

What I hope is this makes SEGA start to expand Sonic Team a bit, they’ve got a new logo and seemingly are now pushing themselves in a new direction, but the team is still pretty small for such a big scale game, and probably could be attributed to some of the lack of polish on Frontiers. Having a bigger team for a sequel could help a lot.

[shdowhunt60]

2 hours ago, PickleBrows said:

I'm really curious about the 'global playtest' thing. Are they actually intending to release future QOL fixes/changes to the game or does he just mean they're collecting feedback to help shape the next game?

If they have dlc plans, some minor updates alongside to help try and improve things like pop-in would be nice.

I'm kinda convinced that the pop-in some sort of deep-seated engine that's not going to be fixed until the next game... If Sonic Team has the means of fixing it to by then.

Stuff like the cyberspace physics though, that's already something being fixed by mods and I can easily see Sonic Team pushing out an update for something like that.

I think my concern is that Sonic Team's post-launch support of just about every Sonic game is... Poor to non-existent. 

[Starnik]

2 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Probably the latter, but I’d hope the former. Even if there was options to unlock stuff like uncapped momentum and the like in the options and to further tailor Sonic’s playstyle to how you want it. 

It really shouldn’t be such a big deal though. Global playtest might be too strong a word, but any developer worth their salt is obviously gonna be hearing for feedback on their newest project, and try to use that to inform what they should do with a new game, and people taking that as “IM PAYING FOR A DEMO????” is pretty silly. Given that they have said over and over that they wanted Frontiers to be their springboard for future games, it makes sense they wanna get a grasp on what can be improved for a future outing, barring the polish and the like.

The question here is if Sonic Team will take the right criticism from this. Take a balanced approach and not throw out the good Frontiers has in a attempt to completely scorch earth it again for the umpteenth time and send us back to Square 1. Hopefully, the positive attention, numerous reviews citing it as a excellent starting point for the future, and the seemingly good sales based off Steam means that Sonic Team will listen and recognise the buzz surrounding the game, especially compared to past outings like Forces, and realise “alright, there’s something special here”. 

What I hope is this makes SEGA start to expand Sonic Team a bit, they’ve got a new logo and seemingly are now pushing themselves in a new direction, but the team is still pretty small for such a big scale game, and probably could be attributed to some of the lack of polish on Frontiers. Having a bigger team for a sequel could help a lot.

Sonic Team have already confirmed Frontiers would be the direction for Sonic. Not to mention the game got great reviews. I have no doubt we will see more of this type of gameplay. 

[UberHoax]

The reviews for Sonic Frontiers in Steam are now overwhelmingly positive!

Take that, Days Gone and Horizon Zero Down! 

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1237320/Sonic_Frontiers/

 

[Detective Kaito]

This and the metacritic user score for Frontiers remind me of how the Sonic movies were extremely overrated by the audience, while somehow the critics are rating Sonic fairly for the most part.