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Sonic 2 Movie Spoiler Thread (Mostly Untagged Spoilers)


The Deleter

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Easter egg I enjoyed, not a Sonic one though. When Sonic is alone in the house he yells "the wooooooorrrsssst." This is a catch phrase of Ben Schwartz in the show Parks and Recreation.

 

I love the show (and love/hate Jean Ralphio, as you're meant to) and love that they squeezed it in.

Also Eggman says he will show Knuckles the way. I guess he knew da wae.

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1 hour ago, MGA_Gamer said:

So apparently I've heard people say Tails got side-lined in this film. Approximately how much screen time does he get in this film?

He wasn’t in the movie as much as I would have liked (which I expected, gotta make room for Knuckles somehow) but he didn’t get completely pushed to the side. If I had to guess, I’d say his screen time is probably around 45 minutes.

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36 minutes ago, Piko said:

He wasn’t in the movie as much as I would have liked (which I expected, gotta make room for Knuckles somehow) but he didn’t get completely pushed to the side. If I had to guess, I’d say his screen time is probably around 45 minutes.

That’s less than half the movie! No wonder he wasn’t In the trailers much!

just please tell me that he gets to do some cool stuff and that there are some hartwarming moments between him and sonic.

also apparently he gets knocked out at some point. How long is he knocked out for? 

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1 hour ago, The Tenth Doctor said:

Easter egg I enjoyed, not a Sonic one though. When Sonic is alone in the house he yells "the wooooooorrrsssst." This is a catch phrase of Ben Schwartz in the show Parks and Recreation.

Huge smile on my face when he said that. I turned to my other half and was about to comment on it then realised she wouldn't get the reference haha

@MGA_GamerTails is in the movie plenty. At no point did I think "where's Tails?". He's knocked out for around 20 - 25 minutes of screen time but only for the back end of the snow scene and the wedding scene. They have their brotherly bond.

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Went again today, as my six year old twin boys wanted to see it badly. I must admit I warmed up to it more the second time. Still think Shadow was likely brought forward due to blah blah blah popularity. Perhaps I'm just a bit gutted I won't see a Metal Sonic deisgned in the movie style, it would have been interesting to see. Then again if Eggman won't be in follow-ups due to Jim retiring, and we wouldn't see scenes of Eggman with his "son" then perhaps it's for the best. Some female representation via Amy would have been a better option too.

What my kids showed me was pretty much what I assumed already. They were bored stiff and started playing up a little when the overly long scenes with just the live action actors came up in various bits of the movie, as did other kids from what I could see/hear, especially the whole wedding rescue scene. Yes it's not just a kids movie, but let's be real just like the franchise it should be aimed at them more than the adults in the room.

When your losing the attention of your main audience members then perhaps that scene should have been reworked,

Spoiler

perhaps have Tails be part of the rescue, the military didn't know about him and couldn't see him under the snow. He comes to for the rescue attempt with Maddie and her sister helping due to his injuries or something.

Plus it would have given Tails some much needed extra screen time.

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21 minutes ago, Stasis said:

Huge smile on my face when he said that. I turned to my other half and was about to comment on it then realised she wouldn't get the reference haha

@MGA_GamerTails is in the movie plenty. At no point did I think "where's Tails?". He's knocked out for around 20 - 25 minutes of screen time but only for the back end of the snow scene and the wedding scene. They have their brotherly bond.

20-25 minutes is still nearly a quarter of the movie! How long is that wedding scene (20 minutes from what I heard!) 

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4 minutes ago, Tenko said:

What my kids showed me was pretty much what I assumed already. They were bored stiff and started playing up a little when the overly long scenes with just the live action actors came up in various bits of the movie, as did other kids from what I could see/hear, especially the whole wedding rescue scene. Yes it's not just a kids movie, but let's be real just like the franchise it should be aimed at them more than the adults in the room.

When your losing the attention of your main audience members then perhaps that scene should have been reworked.

The first ten minutes of the scene I was paying attention then thought to myself that it's going on far too long and wasn't even that funny. 

@MGA_Gamer Wedding scene felt like 30. This movie just needed Tom and not the others.

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Given how these films have given significant buffs to Sonic, Knuckles, and even Eggman in the superpower department, I am very eager to see how they buff up Shadow!

Edit: Ayo, how tf do we do spoiler tags these days? I swear they changed things up, cuz it keeps screwing up with me.

Edit2: eh, fuck it.

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Although I still need to collect my thoughts on this movie - it’s easily a strong 9/10 from me - and even if the human aspects went on for a little too long at times, the comedy was golden and hit more than it missed. Sometimes it’s just so bad it’s good. 

I will say though, that the gaming/TV/comic references were constant (sometimes very deep) - I was almost fangirling and squealing in my seat every few minutes which was a delight (not to my friends). 

And the tease for Shadow in Sonic 3 - that was the icing on the cake. It makes sense to jump to this next IMO - we don’t know how long this success will last, so get in with a shadow / SA2 type of adaptation whilst you still can.

I very much doubt Jim’s alleged “semi-retiring” will see him opt out of Sonic 3 though, not especially when he’s clearly having so much fun with the Eggman character, he was nuts in this, perfectly so - and let’s not forget that potentially it will give him a lot more room on the acting floor for background introspection on Robotnik in the threequal - there’s a lot of personal character moments to mine due to his story and connection with Shadow. He won’t be out of the movie, I’m confident of that. 

Something that I did enjoy was The trinity build up between Sonic / Tails / Knuckles -  they got real rappor at the end and it felt very earned. 

@MGA_Gamer I think the thing to remember is the movie isn’t called “Sonic and Tails”.

He certainly wasn’t robbed of anything because the movie isn’t solely focused on him meeting Sonic, it’s not a buddy movie like how Sonic / Tom was dealt with in the prequel. Sonic’s journey and bond with Tails is just one part of this film.

If anything the plot focuses just as much on their brotherly connecting as anything else in this movie. There is just a lot going on as it’s packed out. 

I also think If the first film was about loneliness and Sonic wanting to forge human relationships, then The sequel has Sonic use what he’s learnt to embrace others like him and forge real friendships and connections.

I mean, I was real real happy with the baseball throwback scene at the end for example - seeing how far he’s come is hella satisfying to watch. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Son-icka said:

@MGA_Gamer I think the thing to remember is the movie isn’t called “Sonic and Tails”.

He certainly wasn’t robbed of anything because the movie isn’t solely focused on him meeting Sonic, it’s not a buddy movie like how Sonic / Tom was dealt with in the prequel. Sonic’s journey and bond with Tails is just one part of this film.

If anything the plot focuses just as much on their brotherly connecting as anything else in this movie. There is just a lot going on as it’s packed out. 

 

 

Thanks for putting it into perspective for me. I’m a HUGE tails fan and I probably set myself some unrealistic expectations over how big a roll tails has in this film. The fact that I have autism does not help. 

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17 minutes ago, Son-icka said:

I very much doubt Jim’s alleged “semi-retiring” will see him opt out of Sonic 3 though, not especially when he’s clearly having so much fun with the Eggman character, he was nuts in this, perfectly so - and let’s not forget that potentially it will give him a lot more room on the acting floor for background introspection on Robotnik in the threequal - there’s a lot of personal character moments to mine due to his story and connection with Shadow. He won’t be out of the movie, I’m confident of that. 

 

In a recent interview he stated how Robotnik should sound like a synthesizer once he had ascended which they used. In the same interview he wants a fat suit. Give him that to work with and he will be golden. 

Skipping ahead to SA2 gives us Shadow but also gives us the Eclipse Cannon/Ark. It eliminates the Death Egg but also provides an alternative that is a  huge threat to the planet for the story. 

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6 minutes ago, MGA_Gamer said:

Thanks for putting it into perspective for me. I’m a HUGE tails fan and I probably set myself some unrealistic expectations over how big a roll tails has in this film. The fact that I have autism does not help. 

I think perhaps as well that they tagged on Tails at the end of the first film (and the logo this film with the 2 having the Two tails) can easily give off a false impression. 

But that’s not to say he isn’t in this loads, but it’s shared equally in parts with others (like knuckles for example). Sonic grows and makes quite a few new friends in this film. 

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8 hours ago, JezMM said:

Was wondering this too.  Actually I've got a few other bits that were a little unclear:

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Longclaw entrusting the fate of the master emerald to this kid she adopted because he's just a nice lil' guy feels like a bit of a reach.  Perhaps some more backstory to be revealed later here though, I mean I feel like we still don't exactly know how he got into her care.

Why the Master Emerald crumbles, and how Knuckles is able to reform it... and what exactly the chaos emeralds are if they weren't the source of it's power?  This kinda stuff can be patched over with game lore - we know game emeralds can be drained and that game Knuckles has particular authority and power (or at least know-how) over the Master Emerald, but this is not clarified within in the movie.

I think they're supposed to be members of the Owl Tribe, but possibly less scrupulous members of them - the pre-quill comic has them capturing Knuckles to throw into Casino Night Zone to fight a giant monster, with Knuckles only gaining their help by paying them the winnings after he beats the giant monster. It seems they're more mercenaries than anything. 

Anyways, I got to see the movie tonight and I have to say - as someone tempering their expectations, even with being surprised by the first one, I actually genuinely really liked this one. That said, I found that I have completely been out of tune with reviews. I've heard a lot of talk that the film sort of loses itself once Tom and co are out of the picture, but I found those to be the most agonisingly slow portions of the movie, while enjoying more or less everything with Sonic, Tails and Knuckles.

In general, I wasn't really digging Tom's role at all here. I really enjoyed the plot of Sonic sort of learning how to become more independent and trying to support Tails, living up to this role model role, and such, but it felt hampered with the entire plot with Tom being "hes a kid and tom's actually a surrogate dad"

Not only does that feel really out of tune with what they were going with in the first movie with the two, but I just couldn't really get into it. To me, it just feels really weird how they had this arc about Sonic being a kid, and needing to accept Tom as a dad, because...it was just really poorly handled with only two scenes that even remotely tie into it. It's frustrating to have this arc of Sonic accepting responsibility and learning to grow a bit, only to suddenly end up to have the whole surrogate dad thing overtake it instead.

But otherwise, I really enjoyed everything with the trio. This was imo - the perfect kind of balance I want for Knuckles. Showcasing him as a legitimate powerhouse and absolute threat you should not take lightly, but still giving him that air of naivety from being isolated for so long. I really liked moments like him figuring out baseball, to calling the truck a 'victory chariot, and crushing it down a bit', to the running gag with the handshakes, and such, I found him really fun. I'm very happy with the arc they gave him and how they handled that balance. 

The character dynamics was just so good to see as well. Sonic & Tails was a given, but it was really nice to get this new dynamic. We don't often get this relationship where Sonic & Tails are just meeting each other and have to build their friendship from scratch. Seeing it slowly develop as Sonic grew to care more about him was great, and you can tell the points where Sonic started taking a big brother-like role for him. Sonic forgiving Knuckles and helping him to accept a new family was also great too. I really liked Sonic and Knuckles saving each other in the underground temple.

Another thing I like is some actual Tails and Knuckles interaction. I honestly can't remember the last time we saw them have some actual one on one interactions, but it was neat as hell here. Especially the Death Egg team-up, and the part at the end where they're accusing each other of cheating, and Knuckles lifting him up to take him for ice cream.

I'd say the entire third act, from the (honestly - following the pretty abysmal wedding portion) temple segment, right up to the Super Sonic showdown, it was non-stop fun. I loved seeing Team Sonic working together to take Eggman on and get the emerald out of him, and Super Sonic's design was plain awesome, I thought they translated it perfectly.

Finally - Shadow. I'm cautiously optimistic about him. I will admit, I was actually hoping for Chaos to appear - especially because this film in particular was so focused on the Echidna tribes, and the power of the emeralds, and such - it seemed to really be leaning in that direction of the echidnas tampering with powers that they just do not understand.

But with how this film ended, I 100% understand why they chose Shadow - a key component of this movie was Sonic, Tails and Knuckles forming a friend unit, and working to become a team, meaning we've officially got Team Sonic formed. I can easily see Eggman (if he survived) deciding that he needs a team of his own - and via his research on Gerald, opts in on Shadow to do so, with Rouge likely coming now that G.U.N is involved. All of the puzzle pieces are there for a SA2 adaption, so I understand why. My only wish is I'd like them to stick to the general idea of SA2 that Eggman wasn't really the main villain, and Shadow was stringing him along. We had Knuckles redeem himself here, so I think having Shadow be a villain for most of it up til his sacrifice would work best.

Anyways, as I said, I'd say the worst scene was probably just the 10 minutes dedicated to the wedding. They had a very funny set-up with the entire thing being a set up - especially when even the priest revealed he was a undercover agent - it was a perfect surreal piece of humour, and then they had to ruin it by dedicated a whole scene to this Bridezilla shtick, and going off that actually - Randall actually did love Rachel. It was funny at first with the reveal, but making it a serious plot beat that just invades the movie for 10 minutes when Tails is critically injured, and Knuckles/Eggman are on their way to the emerald not only made it feel like blatant filler, but slammed the joke into the ground, and drew the movie to a halt imo.

Still, it was good. Very good even, I'd give it a solid 7 or 8 out of 10 honestly. I really hope Sonic 3 continues to improve it, and not drop the ball. Also, Shadow's design looks absolutely awesome, and I loved how they recreated his awakening scene from SA2.

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Tbh, the wedding stuff did make me laugh a few times. I think everyone (who tolerated all the human stuff in the movie anyway) wanted to see Rachel ham it up again and I also enjoyed that Maddie got to do something in this movie - hell it felt like she did more than Tom at times, always seeming to lead their interactions with Sonic whenever they were both present in a scene.  But even I was like "when are we gonna see the cartoon guys again?", who knows what the kids in the audience were feeling.  Could have benefitted from a quick little scene showing what was happening with Sonic/Tails/Tom just to break up this extended sequence of human-only antics.

The bit with Rachel and Randall reconciling needed to be about a minute shorter (and that's being kind to it) and just... not played so straight?  Like, it's very clear to see that Randall did actually care for her in the end from the start of the entire sequence, they could've trimmed it down and cut away sooner, as in like, directly interrupt this side scene, playing it for humour that this big romantic moment is happening but there are way, way more pressing matters at hand for Sonic and Tails.

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Seems the wedding scene was a bit of a drag for most people. The only other weak points for me personally were the slow start, and that weird scene in the hut on the mountain. The kids in the theater (mine included) loved the dance-off and many were laughing and dancing in their seats, so perhaps its just cause I'm older I was taken out of the movie by how out of place it was.

Also while I don't like the whole human aspect in the movies, the one out of all the human characters I wanted to see more antics from was the one that wasn't used much, Agent Stone. It was to make way for Knuckles obviously, and I would rather have that for sure, but a larger sub-plot with Stone would have been far more welcome than all the wedding stuff. Here's hoping Shadow doesn't end up lessening his role again in the third. He's far more interesting and fun than Tom and Maddie combined.

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2 hours ago, JezMM said:

Tbh, the wedding stuff did make me laugh a few times. I think everyone (who tolerated all the human stuff in the movie anyway) wanted to see Rachel ham it up again and I also enjoyed that Maddie got to do something in this movie - hell it felt like she did more than Tom at times, always seeming to lead their interactions with Sonic whenever they were both present in a scene.  But even I was like "when are we gonna see the cartoon guys again?", who knows what the kids in the audience were feeling.  Could have benefitted from a quick little scene showing what was happening with Sonic/Tails/Tom just to break up this extended sequence of human-only antics.

The bit with Rachel and Randall reconciling needed to be about a minute shorter (and that's being kind to it) and just... not played so straight?  Like, it's very clear to see that Randall did actually care for her in the end from the start of the entire sequence, they could've trimmed it down and cut away sooner, as in like, directly interrupt this side scene, playing it for humour that this big romantic moment is happening but there are way, way more pressing matters at hand for Sonic and Tails.

That's honestly my problem. I think the set-up to the scene is actually really funny. That literally every single aspect was set-up, up to and including the priest. I literally cracked up when that book swung open with the taser planted inside. Like, that's on tier with the G.U.N that literally has a giant truck with sawblades in terms of over the top, ridiculous preparedness. 

But then it just kept going on and on and on. And as you say, the Bridezilla scene is played way too straight. If it was at least shortened down and played much more in the absurdist humour, and making it look like everyone was nuts here, it'd work a lot more, but instead they legitimately just played the whole "they really love each other" thing completely straight as an arrow, which sucked basically all of the humour out at that point. Frankly, if a scene feels like it could be completely disconnected from Sonic the Hedgehog, it's probably a really bad sign.

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Now that I've seen the movie, one thing I can say is that I still strongly stand by is that Sonic's movie characterisation is weird. He becomes really attached to Longclaw, after the first movie forgets about her completely. He learns to become independent as a character arc, only to turn around to invite Tails and Knuckles into the Wachoski family, and called Tom his DAD. His DAD.

But the movie was fun. Sure, has it's problems, but it's a fun adventure nonetheless.

One issue that I had was that there's a plot point set up about Tails' insecurity of being called a "freak" for his two tails, a solid character arc that stays true to Tails' original backstory, and then his insecurity is just resolved no sooner than it starts. And it's never brought up again. A missed opportunity, honestly, because Sonic building an emotional rapport with him to resolve the insecurity would also build into Sonic's developing maturity.

Tails also keeps a gun in his backpack. An extremely lethal energy gun. Jesus, kid. Rachel was out to kill someone with it, too.

Knuckles is great! Bound by honour, hopelessly naive, and a force to be reckoned with. The scene where he reads Sonic and Tom's text messages so seriously, narrating the typing notification ("Dot dot dot. Dot dot dot."), made me giggle a little too hard. It made sense how Knuckles was tricked by Eggman, he genuinely didn't know better, and was really hurt when Eggman spelled it out for him. He's really fun to follow, and you can't help but feel bad for him.

The animated scene showing the backstory behind the Master Emerald was really cool, someone had a lot of fun with that one. And it made things a lot easier to follow rather than worrying about 7 emeralds.

Robotnik was really fun. REALLY fun. By the end of the movie, you could be convinced he was Eggman, a lot of his dialog inside the robot felt like something Eggman would say in the games. Him playing with his voice like a synthesiser under the power of the Master Emerald was fun too, Jim Carrey is enjoying himself as Eggman.

Wedding scene, meh. The whole thing with Rachel, goes on for too long.

Also, speaking of that scene, characters are just teleporting everywhere, there's no flow. Sonic, Tails and Tom are here now, then they're over there.

And if the whole wedding was a setup, why is the biplane still flying after the bust?
"Mission complete, sir. I'm going to ride a victory lap, over."
It's never explained how Tails happens to get it, either. He just... has it now.

Super Sonic is cool, all no-nonsense action here. It's cute how they basically fit both an Unleashed AND 06 reference into the sequence. Eggman realises he's bested by Super Sonic and tries to beg for forgiveness, only to make a backhanded attack (which Super Sonic no-sells this time). Super Sonic also finishes his assault on the Eggman robot with a light tap of his foot, that Eggman humorously takes GREAT offence to. I've also said for a long time how the lore of Sonic implies that the Chaos Emeralds grant wishes into reality, and the movie actually takes advantage of this; both Eggman and Sonic create things with the Chaos Emeralds.

Now for little things, it's cute that the Master Emerald was in the Labyrinth Zone, complete with a backdrop straight out of the Sonic 1 beta with the caverns.
One of the GUN helicopters being Sigma-Alpha-2 was a neat touch.
Seeing Knuckles as a kid in the Echidna Clan was cute, I've always wondered about that part of Knuckles.
Agent Stone has a schematic for Eggman's original Mega Drive outfit. Screw you, Stone, I like that outfit better than your gaudy choice.
The Mega Drive manual for the Eggman robot was cute too. Of course Robotnik set aside the time to create a MANUAL for his machine.

It's a fun movie, with it's problems, but what can ya do.

 

...Sonic called Tom his DAD, folks.

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8 minutes ago, Polkadi~☆ said:

Super Sonic is cool, all no-nonsense action here. It's cute how they basically fit both an Unleashed AND 06 reference into the sequence. Eggman realises he's bested by Super Sonic and tries to beg for forgiveness, only to make a backhanded attack (which Super Sonic no-sells this time). Super Sonic also finishes his assault on the Eggman robot with a light tap of his foot, that Eggman humorously takes GREAT offence to. I've also said for a long time how the lore of Sonic implies that the Chaos Emeralds grant wishes into reality, and the movie actually takes advantage of this; both Eggman and Sonic create things with the Chaos Emeralds.

The one thing that really shocked me here was the freaking Sonic the Comic reference. I was expecting maybe a reference to Archie, but Sonic the freaking Comic? There is absolutely no way you can't tell me that Knuckles' warning, and Sonic's initial fake out lightning storm wasn't supposed to be a reference to Super Sonic being a lunatic in that series.

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1 minute ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

The one thing that really shocked me here was the freaking Sonic the Comic reference. I was expecting maybe a reference to Archie, but Sonic the freaking Comic? There is absolutely no way you can't tell me that Knuckles' warning, and Sonic's initial fake out lightning storm wasn't supposed to be a reference to Super Sonic being a lunatic in that series.

Aw, I wanted to mention that. Yeah, the Chaos Emeralds make Sonic go nuts in Sonic the Comic, and the movie was aaalmost touching that.

It's a really deep cut, can't say I expected it.

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Just thinking... Penders is gonna go crazy that you see Knuckles Dad isn't he?

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10 hours ago, MGA_Gamer said:

So apparently I've heard people say Tails got side-lined in this film. Approximately how much screen time does he get in this film?

Sidelined? Not at all. He is in it a bucket load. 

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21 minutes ago, The Tenth Doctor said:

Just thinking... Penders is gonna go crazy that you see Knuckles Dad isn't he?

I did think similar, but due to him being from the assumed Pachacamac tribe or the movies version anyway that shouldn't be an issue, but I did think with his ego he may go on about that one echidna warrior who wielded the Master Emerald and became godlike. "Well I first created a similar idea with Enerjak".

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10 hours ago, MGA_Gamer said:

So apparently I've heard people say Tails got side-lined in this film. Approximately how much screen time does he get in this film?

He's important throughout the first act, and then gets literally taken out, and returns in time for the third act.

We get a fair amount of Tails, but I kinda wish we got more.

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While I really enjoyed this interpretation of Knuckles, my only gripe is how much they overplayed his dumbness, especially in the climax when he was no longer talking about stuff relevant to his experience and was taking in earth culture.  Like, he's never heard of baseball. They tell him what baseball is.  They call it "baseball".  He calls it "base of ball".  Like, because he's from a tribal culture he has to talk like an idiot as if they aren't all speaking the same language to one another?  Just felt a bit unnecessary. Maybe even a teensy bit offensive in a stereotypey way, but definitely unnecessary.  His sturdy-as-a-rock talking style that makes him sound confident when talking about stuff that's in his wheelhouse but spacey when talking about unfamiliar concepts worked fine as is, they didn't need to throw broken english in.

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Went to a midday screening yesterday. Same general feelings as many other people; had a pretty great time with it and there's a LOT in here for Sonic fans to enjoy, even to the point of potentially smoothing over some cracks in pacing and structure.

The wedding scene deffo needed a trim down or rework. It starts to feel like it came from a completely different movie by the time the film is ready to move on. The dance-off in the cabin likewise felt like padding and a retreat of the bar scene from the first film. The scene does at least set up Tails' hologram device that gets used in the final fight, and they get a few free fanboy points for the Sonic Adventure pose.

A rewatch will probably clear this up but I'm confused about how the Chaos Emeralds work here.

First of all it was so cool to discover that they ARE a thing and haven't just been replaced by the lone Master Emerald. I was sure they were gonna do this to simplify the macguffin hunt for the sake of a 2 hour film. 

When they're introduced it feels like the 7 Chaos Emeralds literally merge to become the Master Emerald, which is different from the games but I thought it was a cool idea. We see the Master Emerald shatter in the final fight and the Chaos Emeralds spill out of it which seems to comfirm this logic. After the fight the Chaos Emeralds appear to disperse which would therefore mean no more Master Emerald, but then Knuckles repairs the shards and they have it with them when the movie ends.

So I guess the Master Emerald IS its own entity like in the games?

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