Pokémon Scarlet & Violet - PLEASE TAG SPOILERS/LEAKS

[Sonicka]

Wow, that was ultimately a fat lot of nothing right there then. XD

22 minutes to get to actual game information, a fake out for what appeared at first to be new Legends entry... to ultimately reveal it was the DLC pass (but keeping in the past/future themes for both parts). Even then, it didn't really show of much of anything except concept artwork and cinematics for how we wish the game visually held up. I guess the game showed off new screenshots of the new school outfits...  but the general consensus as I understood it was we wanted to get clothing customisation to get RID of the school outfits. Amazing read of the room from GF there. 

Genuinely though, I'm mostly surprised that they littered the presenter segments with lots of bait and no payoff (at least for now) - such as mentioning today was when Pokemon Red and Green launched in Japan (but no mention of any Pokemon games coming to NSO which was the minimal expectation) or a robotic moving Detective Pikachu looking plush next to the Pokemon CEO (but nothing in the way of an update about DP2) Super weird.

I also find it quite disingenuous of TPC to allow pre-orders to open today for the DLC pass. I'll get this eventually, but they can't in good faith expect players to pre-order this today when there was ZERO gameplay or new map areas shown off, especially with the state that Scar/Vio released. 

That being said, I'm sure pre-orders will go through the roof anyway. 

[Blue Blood]

3 minutes ago, Sonicka said:

but they can't in good faith expect players to pre-order 

There's no "good faith" in The Pokémon Company. 

[Sonicka]

I didn't expect them to mention the patchwork in the video... but that's supposed to be out like, today or tomorrow right? 

[DarkRula]

I'm sure they'll get around to announcing the patch has been delayed soon enough.

Overall, little to be excited about. Felt like I was sat in a cinema waiting for the pre-roll adverts to finish to then find the main showing had been cancelled. That's not to say there wasn't anything good announced during the Presents. I'll likely love that Netflix series, and even with the little we've seen of it, the Scarlet-Violet DLC seems like it will provide a good bit of story. But there's no escaping the fact these Presents have become so... corporate. There was nothing fun about it at all.

[Salamander]

The announcement of the Scarlet/Violet DLC had me honestly confused.  They played the trailer with no context, and the first part was so Legendsy that I legitimately didn't understand what they were actually announcing.  Even afterwards - sure, cool pictures, but what do you actually do?  The lack of footage probably has to do with the fact that Part 1 is so far off - Fall 2023.  By contrast, Part 1 of the SwSh expansion came out in summer.  I wouldn't be surprised if Part 2 slipped to next year.  Edit: The website is starting to update with information from the Presents, and that does give some indication of what you actually do.

It's also quite weird that they teased Walking Wake, Iron Leaves, and Terapagos in the Scarlet/Violet Book, but the actual Pokemon look completely different.

19 minutes ago, Sonicka said:

I didn't expect them to mention the patchwork in the video... but that's supposed to be out like, today or tomorrow right? 

"Late February", I think.  Cutting it fine!

[DarkRula]

Yup, Isle of Armor was the 17th June. The first part of Hidden Treasure being in the fall puts it at around a September-October release. Then with part two of it coming winter this year, means it can only release in December unless it gets a delay. This giant gap for the first part of it feels weird. It feels like something big should be coming in the summer, but something big would have made sense to be featured in the presentation that plenty of people would have their eyes on.

These past two generations have been weird...

[Salamander]

I assume that the comparative delay to SV DLC Part 1 has to do with GameFreak's by now very obvious content production problems; the programmers who would be working on the DLC are instead working on fixing the main game.  But this is just the guess of a not particularly tech-savvy outsider.

Still a weird release schedule, though.  We also have to bear in mind that the SwSh DLC was announced over a month earlier than this, and I think they still managed to show some actual footage...  In fact, look back at the SwSH Expansion Pass announcement trailer - sure, it's mostly concept art, but there's a lot of it.  By contrast, the SV DLC trailer is mostly live-action dramatisation and does a pretty poor job of communicating what it's actually going to be about.

Overall the Presents felt like it existed to announce the DLC, and then they padded it out with anything else they could think of.

 

[DaBigJ]

2 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

There's no "good faith" in The Pokémon Company. 

At this point I'm shocked there's even "faith" to begin with seeing as how obvious the corner cutting has been in games lately 

[Sonicka]

Well, 1.2 just dropped. And whatever bugs they fixed or squashed from the patch notes are apparently true.

Performance and quality however remains largely unaltered. Don't get me wrong, I really like this game and I really want to be able to say it feels smoother when running around... but then I run into screen tears, map elements in the distance that continue to flicker in and out of existence briefly, walls and geometry still melt and warp like butter when you move too close, and at one point the game froze for about two seconds after I jumped into the air. 

That was all within a 10 minute runaround - so potentially this might now be worse.

It’s difficult to tell with performance as usually my brain filters out the janky weirdness because usually I'm having fun exploring - but after today's presents video and the patch dropping, I was specifically looking out for improvements, and I spotted the same amount of enhancements as the name of the DLC. (the joke is 'Zero' by the way). 

Speaking of which, there is a fairly big advertisement banner on the corner menu to easily migrate players to the eshop to purchase the DLC now, not entirely sure how I feel about that. And despite my championing of DLC over a "third" version, a trend which Sw/Sh kicked off - I had really hoped they'd change the purchasing option so that the DLC encompasses both games than having to buy these seperately based on what version you own. I'm not surprised they haven't changed this method, just filled with the usual sense of disappointment that it's designed this way.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Sonicka
grammar / added context

[Sonictrainer]

Alright, although the Presents and interesting trailer doesn't tell us everything about the Expansion Pass DLC, the main site now gives us more to understand.

New Trailers (English)

Quote

Meet the newly discovered Paradox Pokémon Walking Wake and Iron Leaves!

Both will be appearing in a Tera Raid Battle event from Monday, February 27th to Sunday, March 12th.

Start your adventure in Paldea today! 

 

Quote

The Hidden Treasure of Area Zero for Pokémon Scarlet or Pokémon Violet is coming! You’ll be able to adventure for even longer and delve even deeper into the world of Pokémon Scarlet or Pokémon Violet with this paid additional content. 

The Hidden Treasure of Area Zero includes a New Uniform Set, made up of new apparel items that you can use at once in your Pokémon Scarlet or Pokémon Violet game, and two DLC expansions. These are Part 1: The Teal Mask and Part 2: The Indigo Disk. While this tale is split into two parts, they link together to tell a connected story.

 

Version Exclusive Event Paradox Pokémon: Waking Wake & Iron Leaves (Event Ends March 12th)

Walking Wake

Spoiler

• Walking Wake
• Category: Paradox Pokémon
• Type: Water/Dragon
• Height: 11'6"
• Weight: 617.3 lbs.
• Ability: Protosynthesis
• Ancient Version of Suicune

Quote

Does It Have Some Relation to a Sketch in the Scarlet Book?

Walking Wake resembles a sketch made by a member of the Area Zero Expedition in the Scarlet Book. It bears a uniquely shaped set of horns on its forehead. It also supports its weight with just its hind legs and walks bipedally.

Other Notes about Walking Wake

• Walking Wake has a Water type special signature move called "Hydro Steam". Unlike other current Water Type moves its gets a buff during strong sunlight instead of getting weakened by it while also getting another boost thanks to the Photosynthesis Ability. Hopefully Volcanion will get this move in the future.

 

Iron Leaves

Spoiler

• Iron Leaves
• Category: Paradox Pokémon
• Type: Grass/Psychic
• Height: 4'11"
• Weight: 275.6 lbs.
• Ability: Quark Drive
• Future Version of Virizion

Quote

Does It Have Some Relation to a Sketch in the Violet Book?

Iron Leaves resembles a sketch made by a member of the Area Zero Expedition in the Violet Book. It has a smooth, glossy body that has a metallic texture, and apparently the glowing parts on its forehead and neck sometimes transform to look like longswords.

Other Notes about Iron Leaves:

• Iron Leaves has a Psychic type physical move called "Psyblade". Whenever Electric Terrain is activated, Psyblade gets a boost. It will also get another boost thanks to Iron Leaves' Quark Drive Ability.

 

Other Information Regarding this Tera Raid Event:

• Walking Wake will have Water as its Tera Type and Iron Leaves will have Psychic as its Tera Type in this event. This is your chance to challenge mysterious Pokémon you couldn’t meet before!
• Event Period: Monday, February 27, 2023, at 7:00 a.m. to Sunday, March 12, 2023, at 4:59 p.m. PST
• Only one Walking Wake and one Iron Leaves can be caught per save file from this event.
  After catching Walking Wake or Iron Leaves, you will still be able to participate in the Tera Raid Battle event during the event period to get other rewards.
• Walking Wake and Iron Leaves will appear again in future events.
• You can battle version-exclusive Pokémon by using the internet or local connectivity to join another Trainer’s Tera Raid Battle.
• A paid Nintendo Switch Online membership (sold separately) is required to participate in Tera Raid Battles with other Trainers online.
• To encounter Pokémon featured in Tera Raid Battle events, you need to have downloaded the latest software update and Poké Portal News. You do not need a paid Nintendo Switch Online membership to receive the latest Poké Portal News.
• Poké Portal News will automatically download if your Nintendo Switch system is connected to the internet. You can also download the latest Poké Portal news by selecting Poké Portal from the X menu, then Mystery Gift, then Check Poké Portal News.

New Pokémon Trio in "The Teal Mask":  Okidogi, Munkidori, & Fezandipiti

Okidogi

Spoiler

• Okidogi
• Category: ??? Pokémon
• Type: ???
• Height: ???
• Weight: ??? lbs.
• Ability: ???

Munkidori

Spoiler

• Munkidori
• Category: ??? Pokémon
• Type: ???
• Height: ???
• Weight: ??? lbs.
• Ability: ???

Fezandipiti

Spoiler

• Fezandipiti
• Category: ??? Pokémon
• Type: ???
• Height: ???
• Weight: ??? lbs.
• Ability: ???

 

Quote

In Part 1: The Teal Mask, three Pokémon named Okidogi, Munkidori, and Fezandipiti appear. They are beloved by the people of the village as heroes that protected the land of Kitakami in the past, and stone statues were made in their likeness to express the people’s gratitude toward these three Pokémon.

DLC Mascot Pokémon: Ogerpon & Terapagos

Ogerpon

Spoiler

• Ogerpon
• Category: ??? Pokémon
• Type: ???
• Height: ???
• Weight: ??? lbs.
• Ability: ???

Quote

In Part 1: The Teal Mask, you will encounter Ogerpon, which dons a fearsome mask.

 

Terapagos

Spoiler

• Terapagos
• Category: ??? Pokémon
• Type: ???
• Height: ???
• Weight: ??? lbs.
• Ability: ???

Quote

In Part 2: The Indigo Disk, Terapagos will appear, resplendent in its glittering aura.

Other Notes about Terapagos:

• There's a damaged page that talks about Terapagos in the Scarlet & Violet Books respectively.

New Human Characters Introduced in the DLC: Carmine & Kieran

Quote

As your adventures unfold, you will meet a variety of characters. Let’s meet Kieran and Carmine, a brother and sister who appear in both Part 1: The Teal Mask and Part 2: The Indigo Disk. These two call Kitakami home, and they attend Blueberry Academy as students.

Carmine

Spoiler

Quote

Carmine, the elder sister of the pair, is strong-willed and can be a little selfish, but she always looks out for her little brother—even if she isn’t the best at showing it. Word is that she can be chilly toward people from other regions.

Kieran

Spoiler

Quote

Carmine's little brother, Kieran, has a quiet, gentle nature, and he often hides behind his big sister. It seems he’s curious about you, though, when you arrive from the Paldea region.

 

New DLC Location: Kitakami

Spoiler

Quote

In Part 1: The Teal Mask, you will be chosen as one of the students to take part in a school trip that is held each year in collaboration with another school. It will take you to the land of Kitakami. A great mountain towers over the land of Kitakami, and the people live at its base. It is a place of tranquil natural expanses, featuring rice paddies and apple orchards—a new and different experience compared to the Paldea region.

Your trip seems to coincide with a festival regularly held in the village in Kitakami during this season, so the village is bustling with various street vendors and stalls. You’ll meet new friends and Pokémon as you unravel the mysteries behind the folktales that have been passed down in this land.

In Part 1: The Teal Mask, you’ll put on a traditional jinbei outfit and take part in the festival that’s held annually in the village.

New DLC Location: Blueberry Academy

Spoiler

Quote

In Part 2: The Indigo Disk, you will travel to your academy’s sister school, the Blueberry Academy, as an exchange student. Unlike your academy, with its long and storied history, Blueberry Academy is a school that was established in recent years, and its curriculum puts a particular emphasis on Pokémon battling. Most surprising of all is the fact that most of the school’s building is located under the ocean.

You will take part in classes, interact with the local students, and experience school life in this unusual academy.

 

 

[Salamander]

Once the website actually updated and actually delivered some concrete information as to what the expansion pass comprises, I am now more interested, since it's plainly an extension of the main-game storyline and a two-part storyline in itself.  (No mention whatsoever of Arven, Penny, and Nemona, though, so brace yourselves for the possibility of them not joining you on your field trip / exchange program.)  There are still a couple of big questions, though:

• How can the storyline be about Area Zero when it doesn't even take place in Paldea?
• What is the geography of these new areas going to be like?  Because they're bringing back a couple of hundred old Pokemon but for Part 1 we've only been told about the village and Part 2 is an isolated building in the middle of the ocean.

[Sonicka]

The descriptions on the website certainly help as a seller - especially if these link into a larger story. I think a lot of information was simply lost in the presentation or just not articulated very well in the short space of time because of fast thrown together PNG images.

I mean, I suppose there will be more elaboration on how these areas connect to Area Zero nearer the time, or rather an exposition dump near the end of the combined storyline at least. As DLC 1 is theme'd on the past and the DLC 2 is looking future orientated (thank goodness those outfits look nicer) - it wouldn't surprise me if some sort of time travel element was involved given the base games ending - just not to the extent I had initially hoped.

Looking from the outset, I think Kitikami sounds like the most interesting of the DLC's - if only for explorative purposes, I don't expect the area to be large, but it would be cool if there was some link/portal into the past so that you could explore the region twice over to uncover these mysteries. 

Blueberry academy I'm less enthused about as this seems like it's just Pokemon Stadium: Future or a battle tower sort of scenario. What does sound interesting is this being located mostly underwater - will the academy have open-dome wild location elements? Can we go diving? Etc...?. I also wonder if Blueberry Academy wasn't just established in recent years but is literally from the Future. Unlikely, but I'm trying to find as many tenuous links as possible. 

[Salamander]

I've been thinking about the plot and game flow of Teal Mask.  It's based on the story of Momotaro, right?  Momotaro meets a dog, a monkey, and a pheasant as he travels to defeat the oni.  I'm thinking that Kitakami will be an open map with Okidogi, Munkidori, and Fezandipiti scattered around it, and you'll have to capture them in an order of your choice before you can go up the mountain and challenge Ogerpon.  Perhaps the Teal Mask, which appears to have Tera-like crystals embedded in it, is a Kitakami relic brought over from Paldea long ago, and the storyline kicks off with Ogerpon stealing it.

I've no idea how Blueberry Academy is going to have an explorative element given that it's in the middle of and indeed under the sea - perhaps it's built upon a submerged area with properties similar to Area Zero, and connects to a cave network on the sea floor? - but both the live-action trailer and the key art show you facing off against four elaborately-designed characters, so I'm guessing they'll be your classic powerful student council.  Maybe the academy will also have facilities similar to a Battle Frontier, given that it's supposed to place considerable emphasis on battling?

[Blue Blood]

Of all the new character designs shown off, the only one that I don't hate is Walking Wake. Pokémon's art style has just drifted so far from what I personally find appealing. Everything is so flat and toony. The new legendary trio look like the bad guys from a small children's cartoon, and the humans continue to look utterly bizarre. It's just the direction in which the art style has been trending starting with Gen 5. Gens 7 and 8 already rubbed me the wrong way a lot of the time, and Gen 9 is even worse. 

Nothing about the DLC has grabbed my interest, so I'll likely pass on it like I did with the SwSh DLC. At this stage, main series Pokémon just isn't for me any more. I don't like the set up of the games, the stories, the gameplay, the Pokémon or the characters. The Mystery Dungeon remake a couple of years ago was alright, and Legends Arceus was an unexpected treat. Give me more of those. Legends Arceus in particular just felt so right. It was still Pokémon, but it was fresh and just the slight bit more "grown up". I'm not sure how to explain it. It certainly wasn't mature and was 100% kid friendly, but it didn't feel like I was being talked down to in any way whilst I played it. The whole set up of the school in SV, as well as the way that SM and SwSh premises basically amounted to "guided tours with friends" bored me. The premise of the series has transitioned in a way that I struggle to engage with it anymore. XY and BW fell into the same trappings too, although they're saved by much better gameplay.  

So yeah, I think I'm just going to get off the Pokémon train for now. I'll hop back on if there's something that interests me. And if that doesn't happen again, well, I guess I've had a pretty good ride for over 20 years. I started with the anime and TCG when I was 7, and got my first game, Crystal, when I was 8. Bought it and a GBC on a holiday to Florida with my own money that I'd saved up for for a long, long time. Nothing's going to stop me from enjoying the older games. 

For anyone interested, the entire list of returning Pokémon has been datamined in the exact same way as for SwSh a few years ago:

Spoiler

Pastbin list:

Spoiler

 

1. Bulbasaur
2. Ivysaur
3. Venusaur
4. Charmander
5. Charmeleon
6. Charizard
7. Squirtle
8. Wartortle
9. Blastoise
10. Ekans
11. Arbok
12. Sandshrew
13. Sandslash
14. Clefairy
15. Clefable
16. Vulpix
17. Ninetales
18. Oddish
19. Gloom
20. Vileplume
21. Poliwag
22. Poliwhirl
23. Poliwrath
24. Bellsprout
25. Weepinbell
26. Victreebel
27. Tentacool
28. Tentacruel
29. Geodude
30. Graveler
31. Golem
32. Doduo
33. Dodrio
34. Seel
35. Dewgong
36. Exeggcute
37. Exeggutor
38. Hitmonlee
39. Hitmonchan
40. Koffing
41. Weezing
42. Rhyhorn
43. Rhydon
44. Horsea
45. Seadra
46. Electabuzz
47. Magmar
48. Lapras
49. Porygon
50. Snorlax
51. Chikorita
52. Bayleef
53. Meganium
54. Cyndaquil
55. Quilava
56. Typhlosion
57. Totodile
58. Croconaw
59. Feraligatr
60. Sentret
61. Furret
62. Hoothoot
63. Noctowl
64. Spinarak
65. Ariados
66. Chinchou
67. Lanturn
68. Cleffa
69. Bellossom
70. Politoed
71. Aipom
72. Yanma
73. Wooper
74. Quagsire
75. Gligar
76. Snubbull
77. Granbull
78. Slugma
79. Magcargo
80. Swinub
81. Piloswine
82. Skarmory
83. Kingdra
84. Porygon2
85. Smeargle
86. Tyrogue
87. Hitmontop
88. Elekid
89. Magby
90. Treecko
91. Grovyle
92. Sceptile
93. Torchic
94. Combusken
95. Blaziken
96. Mudkip
97. Marshtomp
98. Swampert
99. Poochyena
100. Mightyena
101. Lotad
102. Lombre
103. Ludicolo
104. Seedot
105. Nuzleaf
106. Shiftry
107. Nosepass
108. Plusle
109. Minun
110. Volbeat
111. Illumise
112. Trapinch
113. Vibrava
114. Flygon
115. Corphish
116. Crawdaunt
117. Feebas
118. Milotic
119. Duskull
120. Dusclops
121. Chimecho
122. Beldum
123. Metang
124. Metagross
125. Turtwig
126. Grotle
127. Torterra
128. Chimchar
129. Monferno
130. Infernape
131. Piplup
132. Prinplup
133. Empoleon
134. Cranidos
135. Rampardos
136. Shieldon
137. Bastiodon
138. Ambipom
139. Chingling
140. Munchlax
141. Rhyperior
142. Electivire
143. Magmortar
144. Yanmega
145. Gliscor
146. Mamoswine
147. Porygon-Z
148. Probopass
149. Dusknoir
150. Blitzle
151. Zebstrika
152. Drilbur
153. Excadrill
154. Timburr
155. Gurdurr
156. Conkeldurr
157. Sewaddle
158. Swadloon
159. Leavanny
160. Cottonee
161. Whimsicott
162. Scraggy
163. Scrafty
164. Minccino
165. Cinccino
166. Solosis
167. Duosion
168. Reuniclus
169. Ducklett
170. Swanna
171. Joltik
172. Galvantula
173. Litwick
174. Lampent
175. Chandelure
176. Mienfoo
177. Mienshao
178. Golett
179. Golurk
180. Vullaby
181. Mandibuzz
182. Espurr
183. Meowstic
184. Inkay
185. Malamar
186. Phantump
187. Trevenant
188. Rowlet
189. Dartrix
190. Decidueye
191. Litten
192. Torracat
193. Incineroar
194. Popplio
195. Brionne
196. Primarina
197. Pikipek
198. Trumbeak
199. Toucannon
200. Grubbin
201. Charjabug
202. Vikavolt
203. Cutiefly
204. Ribombee
205. Dewpider
206. Araquanid
207. Comfey
208. Minior
209. Jangmo-o
210. Hakamo-o
211. Kommo-o
212. Cramorant
213. Milcery
214. Alcremie
215. Morpeko
216. Duraludon
217. Wyrdeer
218. Kleavor
219. Ursaluna
220. Basculegion
221. Sneasler
222. Overqwil
223. Enamorus

 

 

[Salamander]

I see where you're coming from, even if I didn't play Legends myself.  Since Sun/Moon then the gym challenge element of the games has been structured as a kind of ritual or rite of passage, and somehow the fact that it's explicitly a kind of test of independence or growing up actually makes it feel like you have less independence than the early games, where you just ventured out alone of more or less your own accord.  It's curious how this can be the case regardless of how linear or open the game structure is (never was Pokemon more of a guided tour than Sun/Moon).

I've found the friends tolerable to enjoyable in general, but as they've grown more prominent then they can feel like a safety net.  I think that the series has been trying to bring forward and make more overt some of the themes and structures which were always there... but they weren't necessarily what people actually enjoyed.  Even when the 2D games were at their most linear, I think there could be a stronger sense of independence and discovery.

I think the simplest way of putting it is that, at least since Sun/Moon, it feels like the game world exists for you.  Whereas in the earlier games, the world existed for itself and you had to find your own place in it.

[Blue Blood]

Yes, I think you really hit the nail on the head with this in particular:

Quote

I think that the series has been trying to bring forward and make more overt some of the themes and structures which were always there... but they weren't necessarily what people actually enjoyed.

The themes of childhood friendship and loving your Pokémon were always present, but they weren't at the forefront like they are now. The first couple of generations didn't actually have friends at all. It was just you, with the professor back in his lab and some douche rival showing up every now and then. Even then I hated it when the gym leaders and evil teams remarked on your strength and love, because it didn't actually reflect the experience I was having. Characters like N and Lillie have stories that, for me at least, miss the point of Pokémon by a country mile. I've no connection to any of the three stories that happen across Paldea or the annoying friends in XY. 

I just want to adventure in Pokémon. 

[Kuzu]

There was a video I watched that kind of touched upon this. Its more that ideas that were merely subtext and left to the imagination before, are now just text and explicitly spelt out for the player.

Pokemon games were so vague before that you could just make up your own adventures in your head and nothing in the games contradicted that at all. Now the games have explicit themes and character personalities that may not mesh with your own ideas that you had before. Its a form of cognitive dissonance essentially.

That being said, the older games weren't like that intentionally but due to limitations of the game systems back then. Once Game Freak had the ability to do so, they started implementing ideas that they probably always wanted to do, but didn't have the technology to do so.

But oops, their ideas don't actually coincide with the ideas that the rest of the fanbase had.

[Salamander]

I find myself increasingly playing indie and retro games these days, because it turns out that what I liked were the limitations.

[Kuzu]

I'm not gonna act like an old man as I do appreciate some modern ideas that have been implemented, but I have a bit more of a preference for older stuff.

 

Or maybe I just gaslit myself into thinking older design is better, I dunno.

[Sonicka]

I’ve probably said this before, but personally, I think the only reason I tend to be a bit more lenient of recent Pokemon games is simply because I fell off the bandwagon towards the end of Gen 3’s adventure.

Jumping back in during Sword/Shield reinvigorated my interest as I didn’t have the fatigue that plagues a lot of community members or the years of changes that were made (for better or worse). Even though the Sw/Sh base game wasn’t particularly brilliant and was incredibly hand holdy, the 2 DLC waves which came after made the game feel a lot more “complete”.

That’s probably why I hold Sc/Vi to high praise (despite its very large technical issues) - because this does feel like I’m exploring and having my own adventures in the world of Pokémon at my own leisure, and this is how the older titles used to make me feel despite their semi linearity. Gen 9’s open approach with linear sensibilities is the game I always wanted them to make when I was a kid during the N64 / GCN era - and technically, they haven’t not achieved that…  

That all being said, after going back to retry the older titles / remakes that I had missed - it was ironically the Gen 3 remake of OR/AS that really dazzled me. This is a game filled with so much quality (and worthwhile extra content and improvements) and bizarrely is now my favourite entry they’ve put together. 

[Salamander]

Gen III's a funny old gen.  I actually quite disliked the overall vibe - I didn't like the graphical style, tropical aesthetics don't do much for me, I didn't care for many of the Pokemon designs either and being honest it really does have too much water - but on a micro level RSE do have a lot of individual elements I appreciate.  I think the general reception of ORAS very probably influenced the direction of future remakes, because people were broadly impressed by the new elements but didn't care for the way it couldn't always preserve the features of the originals.  It couldn't balance the two as successfully as HGSS did - probably because of GameFreak's obvious content production difficulties with the jump to 3D...

Roll on a console generation, and Sinnoh arguably gets two remakes - one an extremely literal one, and one which is a completely new game.  That, I think, was a testing of the waters.  They both sold very well, but while Legends: Arceus was received with rapturous acclaim, BDSP wasn't something anyone really wanted and I believe its sales have actually since been overtaken by Let's Go.  So what I suspect we may get in future when it comes time for a Gen V remake is something more like Legends - a revisit to Unova that's essentially a completely original game - and they may not bother with a more literal remake, Gen V posing obvious challenges in that regard anyway because of the sequels.

Honestly, once it hit the DS era then the games were essentially modern in all but graphics.  They're better off porting the originals at this point rather than doing weird halfway-house literal remakes, whether that port is via NSO or through distinct collections - it's worth remembering that, while the Virtual Console was apparently not a great profit-spinner in general, Pokemon Crystal was the top-seller on 3DS pretty much every single week for years and years and so that at least probably made meaningful money.  Even if we do get a literal remake of Gen V, then for Gen VI onwards the jump to 3D means that they'll probably just upscale the original graphics and call them HD remasters.

[Sonicka]

3 hours ago, Salamander said:

Gen III's a funny old gen.  I actually quite disliked the overall vibe - I didn't like the graphical style, tropical aesthetics don't do much for me, I didn't care for many of the Pokemon designs either and being honest it really does have too much water - but on a micro level RSE do have a lot of individual elements I appreciate.  I think the general reception of ORAS very probably influenced the direction of future remakes, because people were broadly impressed by the new elements but didn't care for the way it couldn't always preserve the features of the originals.  It couldn't balance the two as successfully as HGSS did - probably because of GameFreak's obvious content production difficulties with the jump to 3D...

I think this in part is why I fell off from Pokemon during the original release of Gen III... but it's also very odd that I ended up loving the remake - a nostalgia factor heavily played into my new appreciation for AS/OR as well (which is additionally weird considering how bored I got towards the end of the original game...) but hey, the mind & soul changes over time I guess).

I've admittedly not played enough of HG/SS enough to comment but I don't doubt this balances the new/old much better on DS - but Gen II is universally praised enough anyway so it's tough to go wrong with this one.
 

3 hours ago, Salamander said:

Roll on a console generation, and Sinnoh arguably gets two remakes - one an extremely literal one, and one which is a completely new game.  That, I think, was a testing of the waters.  They both sold very well, but while Legends: Arceus was received with rapturous acclaim, BDSP wasn't something anyone really wanted and I believe its sales have actually since been overtaken by Let's Go. 

The Duel Sinnoh releases is an interesting one - as remake to show what came before, and then a new take on what took place in the past. As ambivalent as I am towards Legends: Arceus - I enjoyed the experience much more than BD/SP and in some ways it's unfortunate that the remakes were outsourced to a company that translated these titles too literally. The QOL updates and feel of FR/LG, HG/SS, OR/AS and even Gen 1's Let's Go takes were infinitely more engaging to me.

Let's Go in particular was changed a lot because of it's design for a specific demographic. I was lucky enough to be able to engage in this one with my kid, but there was enough of the original's essence in there which made playing the remake enjoyable, and there is still a level of quality and soul to the product that felt very lacking in the remakes/ports of BD/SP.    

 

3 hours ago, Salamander said:

So what I suspect we may get in future when it comes time for a Gen V remake is something more like Legends - a revisit to Unova that's essentially a completely original game - and they may not bother with a more literal remake, Gen V posing obvious challenges in that regard anyway because of the sequels.

Honestly, once it hit the DS era then the games were essentially modern in all but graphics.  They're better off porting the originals at this point rather than doing weird halfway-house literal remakes, whether that port is via NSO or through distinct collections - it's worth remembering that, while the Virtual Console was apparently not a great profit-spinner in general, Pokemon Crystal was the top-seller on 3DS pretty much every single week for years and years and so that at least probably made meaningful money.  Even if we do get a literal remake of Gen V, then for Gen VI onwards the jump to 3D means that they'll probably just upscale the original graphics and call them HD remasters.

Might be the best way forward. It's difficult to say what I want from remakes now - my usual expectation is they take the present generation release as a baseline and update the original to fit this ideology. This is why BD/SP felt like such a knee-jerk backwards step - I went in expecting the game to (visually at least) match-up to Sw/Sh with some other QOL improvements thrown in, and we ended up with something that was at worst soulless and at best just acceptable. 

Perhaps new "Legends" inspired takes / upscaled HD remasters are the way forward with remakes then as you say? With Gen V being the last to utilise that quasi 3D/pixelated look, I think that an approach similar to Octopath Traveller would (IMO) be a much more fitting style than what IICA last attempted. 

Regardless of all that - I still maintain that Gamefreak bring all their teams resources into crafting one title at a time moving forwards. Quality control is a massive issue with their recent releases on a technological scale. They have always had these limits mind you (each generation never feels quite like it matches the console it should be on for example - save for Gen V and Gen VII) but they've always stopped short at these limits rather than breach their capabilities because the soul of what makes Pokemon enticing usually supersedes these parameters.

So whilst I will always appreciate the efforts put in from the devs, I imagine TPC's schedules for Legends and Sc/Vi compromised the teams vision, because they were clearly pushed beyond their workforce capabilities and just weren't given enough time to ensure the games were ready to ship. 

[ZinogreVolt]

I like Pokemon more when it leans into the idea of going on a personal safari and seeing the world. Gens I and II in particular excelled at this because you see the world for what it is and are never told how to feel about this or that. There may have been stories like Silver's arc and Giovanni's disbandment of Team Rocket, but those were never the focal point of the adventure. Gen III also did this well despite the more grandiose plot, since the dialogue and writing is much more impersonal (good) and grounded. Compare Gen III's writing to ORAS and you'll see marked differences in how the player character is treated by others, and in turn how other characters act. Archie in particular is a vastly different character from his ORAS counterpart, going from someone who was generally soft spoken and surprisingly eloquent despite his rogue-ish appearance to someone who is much more cartoony and pirate-like. I hate it when characters are made with the mentality of the latter, because they walk way over the line of being grounded and being cartoonish. Pokemon used to be very good at walking that thin line, but not so anymore, if you ask me.

I particularly hate the story of Gen VII because the game constantly stops to tell me how I should feel about something in the most patronizing way possible. I wouldn't hate it if the story I was witnessing was good... but, it's not. Lillie eats up an absolutely inordinate amount of screentime for how basic and abrupt her development ultimately comes across as. No one else really gets much to work with despite how much of their dialogue you're forced to sit through. Gen IX by comparison is pretty wishy-washy and less grounded than I'd like, but I wouldn't say I dislike any of the subplots besides Penny's, mostly because I just don't like Penny. They're all held back by being rushed as hell and not being given the production values that you'd presume those stories would demand, but that's housekeeping more than anything major to be said about how they're written. I think if they're gonna go with a plot that's consistently escalating in scope and character conflict, they should be like Legends and just lead in with that.

 

[Sonictrainer]

Apparently, there's a new bug in SV that can corrupt people's Save Files.

There seems to be a small number of reports but no one knows what's causing it.

Looks like I'll be taking a break from the games until the issue is solved.

[Salamander]

For further information, I recommend reading this post from Serebii Joe over on ResetEra:

Quote

For what it's worth

1. This is rare. Like VERY rare
2. We have had reports of it happening without connecting to GO
3. We have had reports of it happening without buying the DLC

Saying don't connect GO or don't buy DLC means nothing. Most reports have actually been without doing either

Have been investigating thoroughly and passed to TPCi as soon as I got wind of it so that they were aware. I think we have an idea what has happened but it's complex. It's such a random mishmash of possibilities that basically cause the save to not be detected as a SV save even though it's an SV save.

The major takeaway here is that this should be reversible and it probably won't happen to you anyway - but if you're worried, no harm in holding off on the game for a while; unless you're a participant in the regular Tera Raids then there shouldn't be anything you'll miss until the DLC Part 1 releases in the autumn.

Definitely not a good look for a game that is already notorious for its technical failings, of course.