Megathread Sonic Frontiers (2022) | MT | General Discussion (DO NOT discuss leaks here please)

[KingMario05]

1 hour ago, MetKey said:

Quote

"Sonic Frontiers looks neat. BUT, the sceneries shown are pretty generic. If you take out Sonic, the environments could be from any open world game. There needs to be more identity elements, if not, the fan cannot finish connecting. I've made a mockup of what i'm trying to say"

This is what I've been trying to get at ever since the trailer came out. It might be a great game... but I don't think it'll be a great Sonic game. I'm not saying can it for Mania 2 or Adventure 3, but a few more "quirks" (loops, ancient-looking springs, new badnik camps, etc.) would be nice.

Edit: God damn it. This did not require a new page.

Uh... anyway, when do we think more info's coming? There's a Direct reportedly 'round the corner, it could show up there...

[Razule]

10 hours ago, MetKey said:

Stumbled across this Twitter post on a Discord server regarding the terrain in the pictures we've seen so far.

Looked at the replies, and there are still people who think they took out the Sonic parts of the environment and made it look generic for the trailer on purpose. I wish I was still that hopeful. What would that even accomplish?

This is exactly what would've given the world a Sonic feel, while still feeling unique.  

[Wraith]

13 hours ago, CertifiedNobody said:

The forests don't work with the boost at all. And I'm not sure how well the boost would actually work outside of a controlled environment (linear levels). They'd have to also give sonic separate, much tighter controls for when he isn't boosting for combat and exploration to be good, which would be a jarring shift.

Sonic weaving past a tree without running into it or automatically clearing small bumps in the road isn't the complex equation you think it is. This is why I said they would tweak it. It probably won't be as fast as it was before, turning will be easier, and I've already speculated in another post that it's offensive power is probably neutered so he can't just ram things to death anymore.

[CertifiedNobody]

17 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Sonic weaving past a tree without running into it or automatically clearing small bumps in the road isn't the complex equation you think it is. This is why I said they would tweak it. It probably won't be as fast as it was before, turning will be easier, and I've already speculated in another post that it's offensive power is probably neutered so he can't just ram things to death anymore.

It's hardly even the boost at that point. I do think that's very possible, but If it still plays the same as it did in Generations for the Cyberspace levels, then it's counterintuitive and probably not the best idea to switch between two versions of the boost.

10 hours ago, MetKey said:

Stumbled across this Twitter post on a Discord server regarding the terrain in the pictures we've seen so far.

I don't really get this argument. How many loops did Sonic Adventure have? Two in the Sonic's Emerald Coast and then none afterwards? All those levels still worked for Sonic.

[Jango]

11 hours ago, MetKey said:

Stumbled across this Twitter post on a Discord server regarding the terrain in the pictures we've seen so far.

This makes me happy, sad AND angry all at the same time.

[The Tenth Doctor]

48 minutes ago, CertifiedNobody said:

It's hardly even the boost at that point. I do think that's very possible, but If it still plays the same as it did in Generations for the Cyberspace levels, then it's counterintuitive and probably not the best idea to switch between two versions of the boost.

I don't really get this argument. How many loops did Sonic Adventure have? Two in the Sonic's Emerald Coast and then none afterwards? All those levels still worked for Sonic.

Sonic Adventure had a few loops. Windy Valley, Twinkle Park and Speed Highway had some loops.

Not saying the idea is wrong, just pointing out it had a few.

[CertifiedNobody]

2 minutes ago, The Tenth Doctor said:

Sonic Adventure had a few loops. Windy Valley, Twinkle Park and Speed Highway had some loops.

Not saying the idea is wrong, just pointing out it had a few.

Good catch, still, the point is that they were few and far between, and I don't think anybody saw them and thought "thank god, now it feels like a Sonic level again".

[Wraith]

Okay but how is you guys's takeaway "This person thinks it needs loops to look like a Sonic level" and not all the slants and vertically they added to make the level look appealing to traverse? Or the way they opened up the cliffside to add secret paths so most of the scenery isn't boring, uninteractive topography? 

Even aesthetically it's an improvement. There's just enough Sonic hallmarks to make it seem familiar but there's enough new here to add intrigue.

[Jango]

9 minutes ago, CertifiedNobody said:

Good catch, still, the point is that they were few and far between, and I don't think anybody saw them and thought "thank god, now it feels like a Sonic level again".

Are you ignoring everything else on purpose or what?

Even if we could see a single lonely loop-de-loop in the distance, one swallow does not make a summer. Frontiers has a total of zero Sonic elements so far, expect well, Sonic himself.

[Diogenes]

43 minutes ago, CertifiedNobody said:

I don't really get this argument. How many loops did Sonic Adventure have? Two in the Sonic's Emerald Coast and then none afterwards? All those levels still worked for Sonic.

3, maybe 3.5 in Emerald Coast if you're generous, 2 in Windy Valley, 1 in Ice Cap, 1 in Twinkle Park, 1 and a corkscrew (which is basically just a stretched-out loop) in Speed Highway. And that's just skimming through, I may have missed one or two.

But the point isn't as simple as "It's Sonic, it needs loops"; there's a lot more changed in that edit than just plopping those two loops in there. There's actual Sonic-y iconography, palm trees, GHZ-like mountains in the background, the Death Egg, and, yes, the loops. There's adjustments to the level design that match how Sonic usually moves; steeper hills, floating platforms, and, yes, again, the loops. There's more points of interest, both visual and functional; more ruins, more ponds, rivers, and waterfalls, the path down the cliffside leading into a cave, the buildings and the pyramid in the distant background hinting at other environments.

And okay, not all of this might be the best choice for a game; a lot of the iconography has been overmilked, the level design might not work in practice, showing off distant areas like this might not be practical...but it is just a mockup. And I think it makes a pretty solid point that the game we've been shown is looking pretty empty and generic.

[TailsGotTrolled]

Still cautiously optimistic just because they implied that combat will be more than mashing the homing attack button.  Definitely hope we get some gameplay footage sooner than later though

[MH MD]

It may look "not having sonic soul" or whatever

 

but not like first look at Sonic Adventure at the time would give you that impression either, people just learned to appreciate it with time and now it's part of sonic history

 

 

what those picture tells you  that oh...it's a sonic game? basically nothing, they just look like any city and forest in any game at the time

 

So it's kinda pointless debating how "sonicy" something is...before we even actually see more of the game, and based on one location alone

[Kuzu]

Sonic has had so many different aesthetics and environments in the 30 years he has been around, its kind of difficult to point at one singular thing and just say "Yea this is Sonic". It's honestly subjective because what "feels" like Sonic varies from person to person, and that's a direct result of which era of Sonic you specifically grew up on. 

Some fans will say the Classic aesthetic is more "Sonic" than the aesthetic that came after Sonic Adventure, while others will say the latter feels more "Sonic" than the Classic aesthetic (which some Modern fans have become increasingly burnt on due to a combination of overexposure and likely not sharing the same nostalgia for the classics most older fans do).

There's no "right" answer here, just a bunch of subjective opinions and personal feelings on where you feel the identify of the series is. 

 

The Frontiers screenshots are whatever to me at the moment; they're really not any more out of place than every other time Sonic has dapped into photo-realism, and he's been doing that since 1998. I can get why it's jarring to Classic Boomers who generally hold that aesthetic in higher regard and would have preferred something more akin to that, but there's still not really enough to gauge what the game is about. And I think that sense of the unknown is making people somewhat neurotic, especially since Sonic Team have basically shown exactly what happens when they deviate too far from Sonic's aesthetic and nature. 

 

So like...I get it, but it's really not a big deal to me right now and I'm content to wait to see how it all comes togehter. 

[Shiny Gems]

16 minutes ago, MH MD said:

It may look "not having sonic soul" or whatever

 

but not like first look at Sonic Adventure at the time would give you that impression either, people just learned to appreciate it with time and now it's part of sonic history

 

 

what those picture tells you  that oh...it's a sonic game? basically nothing, they just look like any city and forest in any game at the time

 

So it's kinda pointless debating how "sonicy" something is...before we even actually see more of the game, and based on one location alone

I see what you mean. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that locations and how they look, or if they have loops, corkscrews or not, technically do NOT define what a Sonic game is, or perhaps any other game series for that matter. It is the gameplay that does that. You can have Frontiers look like levels from Sonic CD, but without going fast and having the gameplay like Sonic's, regardless of if there are loops or not, the game probably is not a Sonic game. The loops are apparently not necessary in 3D Sonic games as they are, say, "cinematic" features, and unless there were actual momentum physics, which has not been in 3D Sonic games for a long time, if at all, I do not think those elements are that necessary.

It is possible to have realistic or non-Sonic looking areas in Sonic games and have no loops in Sonic games and still be Sonic. For the realistic or non-Sonic looking areas, MH MD showed that, plus there is Sonic Adventure 2 and other games like Unleashed. For not having loops, let me bring up a fan game. Though it has had ramps in recent versions of it, Sonic Robo Blast 2 has practically no loops whatsoever, and yet it still has Sonic going fast, momentum physics and such that have made people love that game. In fact, the momentum physics of that game and how the game was made show that Sonic Robo Blast 2 has proved a Sonic game does not need loops to be a Sonic game.

Just wanted to say this.

[PickleBrows]

I personally want to see gameplay first to see how the environment facilitates it.

I look at something like Spider-Man where we always have a fairly standard New York city for an environment but it's Spider-Man's traversal mechanics that make it fun to navigate.

For a character as focussed on movement as Sonic is, I would hope Frontiers will be similar. The recent interviews talking about reworking Sonic's mechanics and wanting the game to serve as a framework for future titles has me slightly more hopeful they've at least given this some consideration.

Some free space like this might be perfect to get used to and experiment with Sonic's various mechanics if the game gradually starts to throw the player into increasingly complex / dangerous terrain.

[Sega DogTagz]

Having an area feel like Sonic has more to do with how he actually interacts with and moves through the space rather than how it actually looks.

If Sonic curled into a ball and rolled down some of the hills in the landscape shots we've been seeing so far, no one would be bringing this up.

 

Can't we just appreciate that this isn't GHZ version 33.5 and get on with our lives? As long as Sonic is wall running, bouncing and launching himself around the terrain, the rest will take care of itself. It always has. Feeling like Sonic transcends style. We've seen countless examples of that.

[Jango]

1 hour ago, MH MD said:

It may look "not having sonic soul" or whatever

 

but not like first look at Sonic Adventure at the time would give you that impression either, people just learned to appreciate it with time and now it's part of sonic history

 

 

what those picture tells you  that oh...it's a sonic game? basically nothing, they just look like any city and forest in any game at the time

 

So it's kinda pointless debating how "sonicy" something is...before we even actually see more of the game, and based on one location alone

 

[Natie]

Sonic games have never kept a consistent, appealing and instantly recognizable brand art direction over their many years of releases!

 

 

 

But they ought to have 

[Dummy Bear]

On 2/4/2022 at 10:00 PM, MetKey said:

Stumbled across this Twitter post on a Discord server regarding the terrain in the pictures we've seen so far.

And here I am being hyped for the new game because they're NOT using Green Hill Zone for the jillionth time...

[BubbleButt TV]

On 2/5/2022 at 6:00 AM, MetKey said:

Stumbled across this Twitter post on a Discord server regarding the terrain in the pictures we've seen so far.

I'm so conflicted on how I feel about this because that image edit looks ridiculous but at the same time I kinda agree with the point that's being made.

My guess is that this is the starting zone of Frontiers. It's basically the tutorial section. They want to keep it relatively simple so your eye is drawn over to the big tower. 

I'd love for the rest of the map to gradually shift into slopes and loops and corkscrews, but they have to feel like they have purpose and aren't just there for the sake of it.

[light-gaia]

Sonic Team is very consistent when it comes to good and iconic environments. So, that's definitely not one of my concerns about this game. Let me clarify, I'm not saying they are consistent when it comes to overall quality of the games, I'm saying they are consistently good in the environment designs. Yes, there are games that are bad in this regard (Sonic Lost World and Forces, for example), but if we look at the other 3D games, they are all good in this aspect.

For example, Sonic 2006 is an awful game, but everyone remembers Crisis City because it's very iconic and "sonic-y". Sonic and the Secret Rings is very controversial, but the environments are amazing, I love Pirate Storm, Night Palace, just to name a few. Sonic Unleashed's environments are all memorable and iconic, Sonic and the Black Knight, and the list goes on.

It's more likely that we will have good and memorable environments than bad ones, considering Sonic Team track record. Most 3D Sonic games are good in visual and sound departments.

I'm more concerned about the gameplay, because nothing they have shown so far gives a hint about how the game is going to play like. In my opinion, it's part of their marketing strategy. It's very clear they removed enemies, and gameplay items from the footage and screenshots they have show, so the gameplay remains a mystery.

[Zoomzeta]

6 hours ago, light-gaia said:

Sonic Team is very consistent when it comes to good and iconic environments. So, that's definitely not one of my concerns about this game. Let me clarify, I'm not saying they are consistent when it comes to overall quality of the games, I'm saying they are consistently good in the environment designs. Yes, there are games that are bad in this regard (Sonic Lost World and Forces, for example), but if we look at the other 3D games, they are all good in this aspect.

For example, Sonic 2006 is an awful game, but everyone remembers Crisis City because it's very iconic and "sonic-y". Sonic and the Secret Rings is very controversial, but the environments are amazing, I love Pirate Storm, Night Palace, just to name a few. Sonic Unleashed's environments are all memorable and iconic, Sonic and the Black Knight, and the list goes on.

It's more likely that we will have good and memorable environments than bad ones, considering Sonic Team track record. Most 3D Sonic games are good in visual and sound departments.

I'm more concerned about the gameplay, because nothing they have shown so far gives a hint about how the game is going to play like. In my opinion, it's part of their marketing strategy. It's very clear they removed enemies, and gameplay items from the footage and screenshots they have show, so the gameplay remains a mystery.

Your opinion is probably more factual than you give yourself credit for. The fact that we have not seen any enemies in the game footage they shown gives credence that they were likely removed from the terrain in the built shown to the public. 

[expansivelovestories]

i've remembered an idea from the other day!! There is a slight chance that Frontiers does change the lore so that Amy can also transform from the Chaos Emeralds..!! Theoretically from what we are guessing about the story, only Sonic is playable in the main story, but there could be a post game with a few new playthroughs of the various zones, or possibly visiting more islands, in which Tails, Amy and Knuckles among others could appear!!  (Honestly i think Big would be perfect for open zone environments too!!)

The idea that appeared is that the Piko Piko Hammer would also transform, into something with more unusual capabilities, which maybe would be called the Piko Piko Object or Piko Piko Anomaly!!  
 

I also personally really am into the possibility that the Chaos Emeralds were originally formed from some larger mixed material, by ancient hedgehogs, using Piko Piko Hammers!!!! 

editing to add; actually yes, i am sort of hoping now that the Chaos Emerald creation plot that was referenced last year ( without saying if it happens in the second movie, or this game).. maybe it will turn out that Amy is a direct descendent of the original creators of the Emeralds, and she would be able to, in her newly discovered Super form, recreate them to work in full compatibility with each type of animal!!   

[CertifiedNobody]

5 hours ago, expansivelovestories said:

i've remembered an idea from the other day!! There is a slight chance that Frontiers does change the lore so that Amy can also transform from the Chaos Emeralds..!! Theoretically from what we are guessing about the story, only Sonic is playable in the main story, but there could be a post game with a few new playthroughs of the various zones, or possibly visiting more islands, in which Tails, Amy and Knuckles among others could appear!!  (Honestly i think Big would be perfect for open zone environments too!!)

The idea that appeared is that the Piko Piko Hammer would also transform, into something with more unusual capabilities, which maybe would be called the Piko Piko Object or Piko Piko Anomaly!!  
 

I also personally really am into the possibility that the Chaos Emeralds were originally formed from some larger mixed material, by ancient hedgehogs, using Piko Piko Hammers!!!! 

editing to add; actually yes, i am sort of hoping now that the Chaos Emerald creation plot that was referenced last year ( without saying if it happens in the second movie, or this game).. maybe it will turn out that Amy is a direct descendent of the original creators of the Emeralds, and she would be able to, in her newly discovered Super form, recreate them to work in full compatibility with each type of animal!!   

I don't hate the ideas, but this is deviating from speculation to fanfiction.

[Iko]

While watching yesterday's Direct, precisely during the Splatoon 3 part, I've realized that those weird walls in Sonic Frontiers might be similar in concept to how you can climb walls in Splatoon by diving into the ink and moving the character inside it. It will probably be justified as, those are technological walls and Sonic goes into cyberspace for a while to climb them, though I suspect that this will be the gameplay mechanics behind those walls (so, no physics-based).