Megathread Sonic Frontiers (2022) | MT | General Discussion (DO NOT discuss leaks here please)

[DaBigJ]

4 hours ago, The Deleter said:

Chao garden confirmed to not be in the game @ 4:50

Duh.

I don't know why anyone expected it to be in, it hasn't been in a Sonic game since Sonic Advance (I think)

[Cosmos Rogue]

1 minute ago, Jake_LeOFFICIAL said:

Duh.

I don't know why anyone expected it to be in, it hasn't been in a Sonic game since Sonic Advance (I think)

Advance 2, which first released in Japan on December 19th, 2002.

I miss Chao.

[DaBigJ]

It's perfectly reasonable to miss Chao, even if I personally don't care for Chao Gardens myself.

[Jango]

A new Sonic Adventure... "Someday". Hmm.

[DaBigJ]

I'm not really convinced a new Sonic Adventure could be good but that's for another topic on a different day

[Ratcicle King]

The chao garden being missing isn't surprising, even with him aware of how many people want it, the games post Adventure just didn't lend themselves to the process of chao raising thanks to being more speed focused and the exploration and combat taking a nosedive because of the boost. One could argue Unleashed would be a good spot to have it, but Unleashed already had a lot going on development wise, so adding an entire separate game on top of that would've been too much, and given what made it be a good game to have chao gardens (the combat and exploration focus) was a one and done thing, they just didn't have another chance.

Frontiers like Unleashed already has too much going on for them to put a chao garden on it, but if they keep this style like Iizuka wants to, I can see them having one in a future game where the load of conceptualizing and developing all these new mechanics isn't there because the already figured it out in here, giving them more freedom to add in some fluff on top of what Frontiers already has.

[ZinogreVolt]

The Chao Garden not being in the game is both understandable and perfectly acceptable what with all the new elements they're adding in Frontiers, but the awareness of it being the most requested feature makes me curious about why they've yet to pull the trigger.

[DaBigJ]

1 minute ago, ZinogreVolt said:

The Chao Garden not being in the game is both understandable and perfectly acceptable what with all the new elements they're adding in Frontiers, but the awareness of it being the most requested feature makes me curious about why they've yet to pull the trigger.

Well, for one, I feel like the think people would be upset about it not being like how it used to be, maybe. With how far technology had evolved, a Chao Garden nowadays would probably be vastly different and, let's be honest here, probably full of microtransactions as an alternative to grinding.

[Scar]

9 hours ago, ZinogreVolt said:

The Chao Garden not being in the game is both understandable and perfectly acceptable what with all the new elements they're adding in Frontiers, but the awareness of it being the most requested feature makes me curious about why they've yet to pull the trigger.

Because they're not interested.

[Starnik]

1 hour ago, Scar said:

Because they're not interested.

Yeah, I trust Sonic Team has a vision for the game. Video games are partly a work of art. Chao garden might not be part of their plans.

[DaBigJ]

Another interview for anyone interested

Edit:

FUCKING  L  O  L

[Zoomzeta]

4 hours ago, Jake_LeOFFICIAL said:

Another interview for anyone interested

Edit:

FUCKING  L  O  L

Yeah, that doesn't really give us much to work on how dialogue goes in general. 

[ComeAsYouAre]

Somehow we know a lot and at the same time not much about this game 

[Iko]

On 7/13/2022 at 1:26 AM, Cosmos Rogue said:

Advance 2, which first released in Japan on December 19th, 2002.

I miss Chao.

It was Sonic Pinball Party, released in 2003... but that's a spin-off, not a platformer game.

Sonic Chronicles also had a Chao Garden but it wasn't a virtual pet, it was just a collection of perks for your characters to equip.

I miss Chao as well.

[Cosmos Rogue]

4 minutes ago, Iko said:

It was Sonic Pinball Party, released in 2003... but that's a spin-off, not a platformer game.

Sonic Chronicles also had a Chao Garden but it wasn't a virtual pet, it was just a collection of perks for your characters to equip.

I miss Chao as well.

Oops, you're right. As someone who actually owns Sonic Pinball Party I should have remembered that it also has the Tiny Chao Garden.

[Spooky Mulder]

Ian Flynn on Sonic talking to himself and referrncing characters who dont appear in the game: "You might hear some names dropped that'll surprise you"

Mention Princess Elise I dare you.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

 

Mostly seems to be pretty good, though I'm a bit apprehensive about what I've read in the Flynn interview. Not just because I'm still disappointed about the Chao thing, but because I keep seeing these lines about past events and characters who aren't in the game and it makes me worry that this will be References: The Script, which I was kinda feeling as I saw some of the reaches Ian pulled in the Encyclo-speed-ia to try and tie things in to other Sonic properties. I'm sure it's not that bad, but it's something that stuck out to me.

 

Also, I'm not sure if they're overemphasizing this "dramatic somber tone" thing. I'm hoping Ian has not been made to give Sonic less snark than is characteristic of him, I think it's good when Sonic games are capable of taking themselves seriously, but that doesn't mean they always should. Gonna chalk this one up to probably just being more serious in comparison to the weird schizophrenic writing of the past couple games.

 

[Ratcicle King]

2 hours ago, Shaddy Zaphod said:

Mostly seems to be pretty good, though I'm a bit apprehensive about what I've read in the Flynn interview. Not just because I'm still disappointed about the Chao thing, but because I keep seeing these lines about past events and characters who aren't in the game and it makes me worry that this will be References: The Script, which I was kinda feeling as I saw some of the reaches Ian pulled in the Encyclo-speed-ia to try and tie things in to other Sonic properties. I'm sure it's not that bad, but it's something that stuck out to me.

 

Also, I'm not sure if they're overemphasizing this "dramatic somber tone" thing. I'm hoping Ian has not been made to give Sonic less snark than is characteristic of him, I think it's good when Sonic games are capable of taking themselves seriously, but that doesn't mean they always should. Gonna chalk this one up to probably just being more serious in comparison to the weird schizophrenic writing of the past couple games.

I mean it's nothing really new for Sonic, the franchise before Colors always had some subtle referencing to past games, from characters in heroes constantly mentioning the events of the adventure series, to Sonic and the Black Knight referencing the Biolizard fight, it's just that this type of referencing now seems to have a negative connotation because of how much the franchise became self referential to pander to nostalgia. As long as it sounds natural and relates well to whats going on, I don't think it'll be an issue.

As for the dramatic somber tone, I think that's part them trying to hype up the story and part them not being able to tell anything about the story so they have to be as vague as possible and keep repeating the same keywords whenever asked about how the story will be like

[Razule]

One of the people who played the demo actually shared a bit of the dialogue from when Sonic first encounters SAGE. Gives a good idea of Sonic's voice in this game:

Quote

"Sage, it doesn't matter now what happens. I'll never give up the fight! As long as the voice inside me says go, I'll always keep running!"

One of Flynn's best pieces of writing, I tell you what

Spoiler

/j

 

[FirePheonix]

I don't get why some are upset that the cyberspace stages will be optional, for me having the freedom of doing what you want to progress in the game can only be a plus. If I don't like the puzzles I can do just combat and cyberspace, If I don't like the combat but I like the puzzles I can do that. Heck I can just do the fishing mini-game if I so desire.

I like the philosophy of the player having the option to play the game however they want, that's imo something that every good open world game should strive for. BOTW is the best example if you want to you can go straight to the final boss but obv it would be harder to beat it.

With each new thing I learn about Frontiers I am getting more and more hopeful that this will at the very least be a fun game even if it's like a 7/10.

[StaticMania]

Naturally, you'd want to skip the "loop" of a game...outside of a challenge run.

[babsiwuff]

2 hours ago, FirePheonix said:

I don't get why some are upset that the cyberspace stages will be optional, for me having the freedom of doing what you want to progress in the game can only be a plus. If I don't like the puzzles I can do just combat and cyberspace, If I don't like the combat but I like the puzzles I can do that. Heck I can just do the fishing mini-game if I so desire.

I like the philosophy of the player having the option to play the game however they want, that's imo something that every good open world game should strive for. BOTW is the best example if you want to you can go straight to the final boss but obv it would be harder to beat it.

With each new thing I learn about Frontiers I am getting more and more hopeful that this will at the very least be a fun game even if it's like a 7/10.

I’m still a little jilted that you can’t play any other characters. It would be cool to have them as an option after rescuing them like in the Advance games.  But regardless, the open world and freedom of choice to play how you want is really nice.  I may still give it a try!

[Ratcicle King]

4 hours ago, FirePheonix said:

I don't get why some are upset that the cyberspace stages will be optional, for me having the freedom of doing what you want to progress in the game can only be a plus. If I don't like the puzzles I can do just combat and cyberspace, If I don't like the combat but I like the puzzles I can do that. Heck I can just do the fishing mini-game if I so desire.

I like the philosophy of the player having the option to play the game however they want, that's imo something that every good open world game should strive for. BOTW is the best example if you want to you can go straight to the final boss but obv it would be harder to beat it.

With each new thing I learn about Frontiers I am getting more and more hopeful that this will at the very least be a fun game even if it's like a 7/10.

You're using BotW as an example, but failing to see the difference, in that game each objective gave you different items, stuff that could change how you approach whatever you want to do next, so you could say, do as many objectives as you want and every time be rewarded with something new for it.

Unless the items used for collecting Emeralds can be traded for something else, which is the assumption we're going with here, all this means is that at least a good chunk of the game is meaningless because another chunk covers anything you could get from it. Yeah it lets you choose what you want to do, but by doing so, it discourages people on doing both objectives, because all you'll get is an item you may not even need anymore instead of something exclusive to the objective, making it worth going through. This also means cutting the playtime short because again, a chunk of the things you're meant to do in the open world will give you nothing but a checkmark on a list, so why bother.

Ideally, every objective, missions, puzzles, cyberspace, should provide you something new to try on as soon as you get it, leading to you doing more objectives testing it out, that's why it's called ''gameplay loop''. The way things are going, it's not a loop, it's multiple lines all converging into one single line at the end and you're supposed to pick one to reach that end line.

[NoKaine]

In Breath of the Wild, literally everything in the game was catered towards beating the final boss, sometimes you can do immediately. 

• You beat Shrines to get health and stamina to make it easier to beat the final boss.
• You clear the Divine Beast Dungeons to get the Champion's magic and reduce the final boss' health.
• You find treasure and fight enemies to get weapons and armor that make it easier to beat the final boss,
• and you do side quests to obtain items that you can craft into food to help you last against the final boss. 

You can choose to do any one of these things, or none of these things, and they all lead to the same result. How is that somehow more of a "gameplay loop" than what Frontiers is doing? Imagine saying that because Shrines also have weapons and craftable items to collect then that means fighting normal enemies or exploring the world (i.e., a huge chunk of the game) is "meaningless." 

The previews and interviews for Frontiers literally say things like:

• beating the cyberspace levels unlocks specific cutscenes,
• completing puzzles unlocks more of the map (and it's very easy to assume that the Chaos Emerald vaults are locked behind those parts of the map),
• fighting enemies and bosses gives you EXP to improve your skills,
• Big's fishing gives you "collectibles" other than keys (and I doubt any of these items are an infinite resource). 

All of these aspects point to the ultimate goal of getting the Chaos Emeralds, but they all have their own unique items and benefits separate from the rest, and they even help in those other aspects.

If you want to get an Emerald but you don't have the keys for it, you can explore the world to find cyberspace levels. They are the most straightforward way to get keys, and seem to also be the aspect of the game directly about the story. 

But it will also be good to explore and find the heart items so you can go to the Elder Koco and increase Sonic's speed, which makes completing cyberspace levels easier.

You can engage in combat to level Sonic up and get skills that can also help in cyberspace levels, such as secrets that require the Lightspeed Dash. Leveling up also helps with doing puzzles, which unlocks more of the map, which--you guessed it!--have more cyberspace levels.

Kishimoto also alluded to how some areas of the world will be inaccessible without the right skills or stats.

Even if you want to fish all day and get keys for doing that, you'll still have to explore the world to get the purple coins.

Every single aspect of the game feeds into each other, the literal definition of a gameplay loop, but the director says that you have freedom and people somehow interpret that as "nothing you do matters." And even though Frontiers has a much greater sense of freedom than any other Sonic game, it's still more linear than Breath of the Wild because getting the Chaos Emeralds is required and each island is its own world separate from the rest. 

[StaticMania]

Well, that freedom literally just means you can stop whenever you want.

Which is less negative.

You probably can't just skip to the final boss though, so...