Megathread Sonic Frontiers (2022) | MT | General Discussion (DO NOT discuss leaks here please)

[Diogenes]

Freedom of progression and optional challenges are expected in an open world game but I'm surprised they're letting people skip the most "Sonicy" part of the game. Maybe I'm being overly cynical (me? nooo...) but this whole "anything goes for progression" approach feels like a lack of confidence, and they're just hoping players latch onto something at some point. You want linear boost levels, stick to cyberspace, you like the new combat system, go fight robots, you wanna do puzzles, they've got some, just want to fish, you can pretend this is Big's Big Fishing Adventure, and whatever you don't like, hey whatever just don't bother with it it's fine.

Also if the cyberspace levels are optional that probably means there's little to no story tied to them. Nothing vital, at least.

[ZinogreVolt]

2 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Freedom of progression and optional challenges are expected in an open world game but I'm surprised they're letting people skip the most "Sonicy" part of the game. Maybe I'm being overly cynical (me? nooo...) but this whole "anything goes for progression" approach feels like a lack of confidence, and they're just hoping players latch onto something at some point. You want linear boost levels, stick to cyberspace, you like the new combat system, go fight robots, you wanna do puzzles, they've got some, just want to fish, you can pretend this is Big's Big Fishing Adventure, and whatever you don't like, hey whatever just don't bother with it it's fine.

Also if the cyberspace levels are optional that probably means there's little to no story tied to them. Nothing vital, at least.

It's mostly the wording that's bothersome for me. I feel like letting the player skip a bunch of stuff they don't wanna do was because of BotW and Mario 3 (where you can literally ignore like 99% of the game) and their influence on Frontiers' overall philosophy, but specifically saying stuff like "if you don't like this aspect of play, you can ignore it" instead of something more charitable like "you can prioritize what you like doing more" gives an unnecessarily negative connotation.

[DaBigJ]

This is quite unrelated to literally everything ever, but I hope the inclusion of shops (as mentioned by SSF1991 here.) means there's some sort of cosmetics system in the game. Even if it's like Colors Ultimate, I just wanna have the ultimate drip bruh

[Kuzu]

58 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Freedom of progression and optional challenges are expected in an open world game but I'm surprised they're letting people skip the most "Sonicy" part of the game. Maybe I'm being overly cynical (me? nooo...) but this whole "anything goes for progression" approach feels like a lack of confidence, and they're just hoping players latch onto something at some point. You want linear boost levels, stick to cyberspace, you like the new combat system, go fight robots, you wanna do puzzles, they've got some, just want to fish, you can pretend this is Big's Big Fishing Adventure, and whatever you don't like, hey whatever just don't bother with it it's fine.

Also if the cyberspace levels are optional that probably means there's little to no story tied to them. Nothing vital, at least.

To be somewhat fair to them, given how much people complain about being forced to do things in Sonic games, this feels like the appropriate approach. Sure, you could say "Well just make them not shit, hurrrr" but even when certain mechanics were implemented decently enough, people still saw them as "distractions" even though they were essential parts of the game. 

So giving the player the freedom to choose feels less like a lack of confidence (though that could still be the case) and more not forcing the player to do a part of the game that they may not want to do. 

 

 

 

Anyway, Iizuka saying a lot of things, but it's really hard to see that in the product itself. I'm really trying to give them the benefit of the doubt here, but its pretty apparent most of the things they've been showing off are things that have been common for Sonic games in the past 20 years. If he really wanted to give credence that this is an all new experience, why not focus on the parts that are actually new? 

 

Then again, given how many people complained about the lack of distinct Sonic aspects, maybe its for the best. I dunno man, the marketing for this game feels like its all over the place. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy; Sega start feeling confident to show off footage, but people react negatively, which causes Sega to lose confidence and start going tightlipped again, which causes people to calling for more footage to be shown. Its a really ugly cycle. 

 

I'm not going "poor big corporation" here, but I feel like it says a lot that this is the stalemate we're at now. Sonic fans are (understandably) jaded and just looking to pick apart any new footage, while Sega are reluctant to put out more footage likely out of fear of it being picked apart relentlessly. I feel like they are trying, but it's simply not up to the standards that people expect and want from this franchise. 

[Sega DogTagz]

It doesn't matter what they choose to focus on. A vocal minority will always be there to demand that they expand on everything else. We do this song and dance every time.

 

As for the progression freedom, this is kind of like an inverse of what they decided to do with Unleashed. So maybe they learned their lesson a bit? Either the progression checkpoints are low enough in Frontiers that it doesn't matter how you spend your time, or the over-world is just chocked full of content and there is enough of it out there whereas you can just decide to only consume what you like.

 

Its not unheard of, particularly so in open world games. the vast majority of side missions are optional. Even Generations did that a little bit. Outside of the main stages and bosses, there were a decent handful of challenges to get through, but the game only really required you to beat 2 out of the 6 missions per generation. Not even half.

[Kuzu]

If the game is as long as Iizuka says, then I feel like the requirements have to be big. Which probably means the player will have to grind a lot...which isn't unheard of in open-world games. At least there are different ways so the player can just switch it up if they get bored with one method. 

12 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

It doesn't matter what they choose to focus on. A vocal minority will always be there to demand that they expand on everything else. We do this song and dance every time.

You'd think they'd accept this reality and just go about their business by now, but no...they're still chicken shit whenever people start reacting negatively.

[babsiwuff]

Does anyone know what Tails' role will be?  Ideally I'd love to play him.  But not sure if Frontiers will work that way.

[Cosmos Rogue]

8 minutes ago, babsiwuff said:

Does anyone know what Tails' role will be?  Ideally I'd love to play him.  But not sure if Frontiers will work that way.

There has been nothing to indicate that Tails will be playable, I'm afraid. All we know about Tails' role in Frontiers is that he will be one of Sonic's friends that need rescuing.

[Kuzu]

The intricate system of this game basically ensures that nobody but Sonic will be playable. Tails, and Amy are set to appear as the ones Sonic needs to rescue, and the prologue implies Knuckles will be joining as well. But I wouldn't go in with the expectation that they're going to have substantial and major roles.

[Ratcicle King]

It's a nitpick, but it bothers me a little that it seems most missions on the open zone will be there as alternatives to the cyberspace stages in unlocking the chaos emeralds. It feels less like they're additional content on top of everything we've seen and more like you have to pick which ones you want to go with and the rest is just there for 100% completion with no added bonuses to completing them specifically. I just hope the vault keys or whatever collectible is used to unlock the emeralds can be used for more things than just unlocking them, to give some incentive to play the missions AND the cyberspace stages.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

14 hours ago, Kuzu said:

Anyway, Iizuka saying a lot of things, but it's really hard to see that in the product itself.

I attribute this far more to the baffling marketing, rather than it being misleading words on Iizuka's part.

[FlameStream]

I don't find the latest statement too odd. It seems to be right in line with a rising approach to accessible modern game design, where even things that core gamers consider essential to a game, can be skipped.

There are a lot of people that are unable to finish games, or that are simply not interested to bother with challenges (simple or not), and simply wants to experience the game (usually for the story). I do not have the numbers, but that demographic is probably higher than most people think; likely bigger than core gamers.

For games to be enjoyable for those people, it should feel as they are doing satisfying, powerful and flashy things with minimal effort and the narrative should be strong. Given that I read that there is an option to have combat option in "simple mode", this seems to align for that part.

One thing to note though: often for these core gamers, their enjoyment is impeded by other one's different/easy enjoyment with the same reward. Don't let that get to you, especially if it's a game with no competitive aspect. 

[The Deleter]

Put me down as less than enthusiastic over the "Cyberspace is optional" detail as well. Having the combat, puzzles, and platforming sections be individually optional to each other is one thing, and imo great, since they each feed into the EXP and portal gears and would make repeat run throughs of the game interesting. Alternate goals outright, though?

We don't exactly have enough information to know how it works, but it sounds like it has the potential to be equivalent to the Generators vs Time Stones disparity in CD. They both technically allow you to play through the game in different approaches, and could be seen as replayability in terms of options, sure; but there was also a clear divide between what is the fastest option to use with the time stones, and what is the most satisfying with the generators. They never really came together to form a cohesive whole in terms of how to progress through to the game's good ending.

Having both the cyberspace and whatever other options to progress both contribute to the same progression is already better than that, since you don't have to commit to a single approach to succeed, but the potential disparity between multiple options still has me a lot more unsure about its design than not.

[Razule]

The Cyberspace stages being reused Generations levels makes more sense that they're optional. Why make whole new assets for a portion of the game players might not even play.

[Blue Blood]

Just now, Razule said:

The Cyberspace stages being reused Generations levels makes more sense that they're optional. Why make whole new assets for a portion of the game players might not even play.

Because Frontiers is supposed to be a new game, and the cyberspace levels are a big part of that even if they are technically optional.

[Razule]

35 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

Because Frontiers is supposed to be a new game, and the cyberspace levels are a big part of that even if they are technically optional.

Would've preferred it was different, but it is what it is for now. And at least a portion of the game being remixed old stuff has been Sonic's modus operandi for about a decade now, so it's part of what a "new Sonic game" is these days.

[Kazhnuz]

Mmh, I'll wait before really knowing if it really means "we can play the game without entering a cyberspace level", as here it says that we don't have to "strategically play" the cyberspace level. I see several possibilities here, depending of what  they mean by "strategically".

- They're optional to the point we could play the game without ever entering a cyberspace level. I'm actually not sure it's that, as some cutscenes seems to happens after cyberspace level - but they could happens after getting keys. Either à la Breath of the Wild because we could do the game without what they give with their keys (so finish the game without the Chaos Emeralds ?) or get keys from different kinds of missions.

- We don't have to play every objective of the cyberspace level, don't have to 100% them.

- There could be more cyberspace level than needed, meaning that we don't have to play each one of them (other would be for bonuses), which would go maybe with the second possibility, as we could simply do multiple objective on a cyberspace level (and/or other type of missions) instead of doing each of them ?

 

And TBH, we already know that we'll have at least one cyberspace level we are forced to play : the initial GHZ one XD.

[The Deleter]

Chao garden confirmed to not be in the game @ 4:50

 

[StaticMania]

Naturally.

[ZinogreVolt]

"Are you a good sport?"
"Not actually."

That got a good chuckle out of me.

[Sonicka]

42 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

Chao garden confirmed to not be in the game @ 4:50

Genuinely laughed at this several times. It was probably one of the most informative (and hilarious) interviews for this game so far. 

I have to say, despite the quick trick questions hurled at him rapid fire (appreciate this was a heavily edited video) - full kudos to Iizuka for being a good sport (especially navigating some of the weird fanbasey shit).  

[Cosmos Rogue]

Iizuka seems like a really nice guy who somehow is still excited to be working on Sonic the Hedgehog after all of these years. But if Sonic Adventure 2 is his favorite Sonic game, WHERE IS THE CHAO GARDEN IIZUKA?!

[SolidSurgeTT]

3 hours ago, The Deleter said:

Chao garden confirmed to not be in the game @ 4:50

I mean...I'm not that broken up because it's not something that I'm personally attached to. I was just hoping it would be in the game so everyone else might be less salty when it actually comes out.

[jungle_penguins]

"Sonic 06 NPC impression" bro what are these questions.

[Sega DogTagz]

The heavy editing obliterates 99% of context - but oh well.

 

2 hours ago, Cosmos Rogue said:

 But if Sonic Adventure 2 is his favorite Sonic game, WHERE IS THE CHAO GARDEN IIZUKA?!

and that's after confirming that Chao Gardens were the most requested element of the future games. They know we want them lol.