New Mario game on the way

[Scarlet2106]

'Miyamoto thought the collaboration resulted in a "true evolution of the F-Zero series", enhancing the simulation of racing at high speeds and expanding the "F-Zero world on a grand scale".'

I'm all but certain he was referring to one of the GBA games (which were developed by Suzak). He never said which specific F-Zero he was talking about.

Regardless of this, I'm hoping it's something by the 64 developers, but I'm not actually sure whether they got shifted around into the Galaxy team. I see this Galaxy 2 as a side-project rather than the Next Big Mario Game (somewhat like Halo ODST in comparison to Halo 3 and Halo Reach... or Majora's Mask to Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker).

Edited October 18, 2009 by Arcane

[Carbo]

'Miyamoto thought the collaboration resulted in a "true evolution of the F-Zero series", enhancing the simulation of racing at high speeds and expanding the "F-Zero world on a grand scale".'

I'm all but certain he was referring to one of the GBA games (which were developed by Suzak). He never said which specific F-Zero he was talking about.

Regardless of this, I'm hoping it's something by the 64 developers, but I'm not actually sure whether they got shifted around into the Galaxy team. I see this Galaxy 2 as a side-project rather than the Next Big Mario Game (somewhat like Halo ODST in comparison to Halo 3 and Halo Reach... or Majora's Mask to Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker).

If Miyamoto praised any F-Zero Game post-SNES then it must have been the GBA games since I heard something of him outright lambasting Sega's F-Zero on the GameCube.

As for the 64 developers, both Galaxy and 64 were developed by Nintendo EAD, although a major part of the Galaxy team consisted of people taken from the Tokyo EAD crew that worked on Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat. I dont know how many devs from the SM64 ages still work with it.

[Patticus]

Wasn't the Triforce partnership of Nintendo, Namco and Sega essential to bringing out F-Zero GX? And hasn't it been all but dead these past few years, ever since Sammy took over at Sega?

As for this alleged new Mario... we shall see. Hopefully it'll be a proper new Paper Mario, but the way the money goes it'll probably be a Mario Party or Mario-themed Sports game making use of MotionPlus or the Wii Fit Plus board.

[Scarlet2106]

If Miyamoto praised any F-Zero Game post-SNES then it must have been the GBA games since I heard something of him outright lambasting Sega's F-Zero on the GameCube.

Apparently you have heard something that I can't seem to find anywhere. 'Yes, that has definitely happened. In the past we've worked with some outside development houses on titles like F-Zero and Starfox' is literally the only thing I've seen. That doesn't specifically say either way which games he is talking about. Not to mention that it's pretty common opinion that GX is awesome, and GPLegend and Climax (which didn't even get published outside of Japan) suck.

The Triforce partnership was mostly just for bringing Nintendo games to the arcades. Since we've moved to the next generation of hardware, it's likely that it just died off with the 'cube.

But yeah, I'm sure I've seen something about the 64/Sunshine team still being around but working on something else, while some of them were put on Mario Galaxy alongside the Jungle Beat team. That's why I'm not certain who is working on what and when.

Edited October 18, 2009 by Arcane

[Carbo]

Apparently you have heard something that I can't seem to find anywhere. 'Yes, that has definitely happened. In the past we've worked with some outside development houses on titles like F-Zero and Starfox' is literally the only thing I've seen. That doesn't specifically say either way which games he is talking about. Not to mention that it's pretty common opinion that GX is awesome, and GPLegend and Climax (which didn't even get published outside of Japan) suck.

Common opinion was also that Donkey Kong Country was awesome, yet Miyamoto called it "mediocre" at it's release, even though he apologized about that later on. Just cause it's common opinion that it's awesome doesnt mean that the developers like it.

And if I recall correctly I read that Miyamoto GX Hate thing on SmashBoards.

Edited October 18, 2009 by Oni-Tan

[JezMM]

I also recall reading something that claimed Miyamoto didn't like F-Zero GX so I can back that up. Personally GX didn't grab me at all. It was way too hard, the fact that you had to buy chapters of story mode irritated me, and to be honest, I found the minimalistic backgrounds of F-Zero X enhanced the speed. While all the huge (and VERY pretty) envioronments in GX were amazing, the fact that they crawled towards you because of just HOW huge and far away they were from the track, really bogged down the sensation of speed for me.

Though it probably doesn't help that most of my love for F-Zero X is nostalgia fueled anyway... It's one of the few N64 games I haven't repurchased on Virtual Console.

Also:

it'll probably be a Mario Party or Mario-themed Sports game making use of MotionPlus or the Wii Fit Plus board.

Now that I think about it, I can't believe you're the first person to mention it. Miyamoto said Galaxy 2 was too far along really to implement M+ at this point, so the bolded words are probably most likely.

Although since you mentioned Paper Mario, I'll also add just how much I'd love a new one (RPG styled, not Super Paper Mario styled, though that was nice too), or perhaps an enhanced port of Paper Mario N64 for the DS (basically use the upgrades from PM2's battle system, and stylus controlled QTE's).

Of extra note, I'm pretty sure Wii Fit Plus uses the same Balance Board, but I might be wrong.

Edited October 18, 2009 by JezMM

[Patticus]

A Mario Party with MotionPlus could conceivably provide new insights into what we might expect of the controls in the next Zelda game, much like several Wii Sports Resort games did.

[speedfreak]

A motion + Mario Party might actually be pretty cool.

[SykoTech]

Sadly, this doesn't faze me. I think that Nintendo translated the cries over the lack of hardcore games as "WE WANT MORE MARIO!"

Because it is a retread of an idea in a series that is almost always notable for constantly being forward-thinking, making the whole thing come off as a bit lazy regardless of how much effort is put into the level design for the new content. That is my problem with both NSMBW and Galaxy 2.

And the nail was hit on the head.

Even though I don't love Mario 64 as much as the next guy, the game was a major breakthrough in the genre. Just like how Mario was back when he first started. Naturally, I would expect Mario to keep that same excellence flowing, and that certainly isn't what's happening in his upcoming platformers.

A new 2D Mario on consoles? Why not something worthy of his legendary status? A game that takes 2D platformer to the next level. But instead of something wonderous like the PS3's LittleBigPlanet, it's a "sequel" to prehaps the most uninspiring 2D Mario, with 4 people (Toad skins?) and no online. That's just sad.

And while Galaxy 2 isn't as bas as that, it hasn't earned the right to be regarded as awesome either. There is only one trailer to go by so far, but what's there to go nuts over? Game looks the same as the first in graphics, art sytle, and even enemies (exact same Bullet Bills, Goombas, etc.). Just some more powerups. It's pretty much taking The Lost Levels route, and that game isn't exactly evidence of Mario's superstar status.

Not necessarily bad, but they both have come off as a bit lazy. Sorry, but not going to really settle for less, especially since Nintendo's competitiors haven't given me any reason to do so.

Edited October 18, 2009 by Tentomon

[Tornado]

EDIT: I JUST HAD A THOUGHT... Remember how Super Mario All-stars was recently re-copyrighted?

What if it's getting re-made with NSMBW graphics and sound?

I would be pissed. Though for all we know it was done for the same reason Sega keeps re-copyrighting "Dreamcast."

This is the same Nintendo that's making you pay 800 points for what is Space Invaders for the Super Nintendo

And Final Fight!

Common opinion was also that Donkey Kong Country was awesome, yet Miyamoto called it "mediocre" at it's release, even though he apologized about that later on. Just cause it's common opinion that it's awesome doesnt mean that the developers like it.

The situation behind that is different. First of all, DKC is actually terrible, so he was wrong for a different reason. Second of all, I believe that comment was made in the first place because of internal pressure to make Yoshi's Island look like DKC.

[Solid SOAP]

I'd love to see another great Mario Party game like the first 3, me and my friends have been doing nothing but play them lately and it'd be cool to see another good one.

[Conando]

The situation behind that is different. First of all, DKC is actually terrible, so he was wrong for a different reason. Second of all, I believe that comment was made in the first place because of internal pressure to make Yoshi's Island look like DKC.

Hit the nail on the head. With DKC's success, Nintendo of Japan took it as people loving only the graphics and wanted that to be the standard for their games onward apparently. Since Miyamoto was going to use the Super FX chip for Yoshi's Island, they wanted him to make it look like DKC. Needless to say, that made him fly off the handle.

Also, I still don't get why Nintendo is being called "Lazy" when every Mario sequel before 64, excluding Yoshi's Island and Super Mario "USA" (which isn't even a Mario game), was just a mission pack sequel and everyone loves them. Specifically SMB 3 and SMW.

Edited October 18, 2009 by Hero Of Fate

[Solid SOAP]

The situation behind that is different. First of all, DKC is actually terrible, so he was wrong for a different reason. Second of all, I believe that comment was made in the first place because of internal pressure to make Yoshi's Island look like DKC.

...since when is Donkey Kong Country "terrible"? It was a great game for it's time.

[Carbo]

Also, I still don't get why Nintendo is being called "Lazy" when every Mario sequel before 64, excluding Yoshi's Island and Super Mario "USA" (which isn't even a Mario game), was just a mission pack sequel and everyone loves them. Specifically SMB 3 and SMW.

Becasuse on the NES that was forgivable. But your point is void, since SMB3 was considered a revolution seeing how much it pressed out of the NES, and even though the formula was the same it wasn't Super Mario Bros. 1 with extra levels. Super Mario World raised the bar even higher. They did massive change-overs yet didn't deviate from the original form of gameplay.

Edited October 18, 2009 by Oni-Tan

[Dr. Mechano]

Becasuse on the NES that was forgivable. SMB3 was considered a revolution seeing how much it pressed out of the NES, and even though the formula was the same it wasn't Super Mario Bros. 1 with extra levels. Super Mario World raised the bar higher. They did massive change-overs yet didn't deviate from the original form of gameplay.

Neither is NSMB Wii. Its graphics are new- They aren't ported over or reused from the DS game at all, despite their similar style.

[blackherox]

People need to stop fucking moaning about "milking the franchise" for a series that releases like, 3-5 games a year both spin-off or otherwise, and usually only has one dud (at the most) among them.

Thats quite a lot of games per year and most tend to be 'duds'. My peet peve is with what I said before as far as other more deserving titles' go and the fact that as far as the Ninty Fanbase is concerned the its mostly about double standards. For example, 'Microsoft milk Halo', 'Activison milk Guitar Hero' etc but not you know who.

Mario has been "milking the franchise" like this since the N64 days (read, over 10 years ago now) and if you're not used to it now you'll never be. I think Nintendo have proven this generation more than any that they know what they're doing.

The difference being this generation, they now have another multi-million seller franchise the Wii franchise and are actually now leading this generation and the new motion sensor technology is present. Given their current circumstances, I have (and others do) a much higher expectation as far as their game quality and produce goes then back then when they didn't have all that. Surely, they can't invest some of the oney made by Wii music to make more solid and deep games that actually take advantage of the Wii.

1)The hardware is not meant to be a powerhouse so graphics aren't a big deal. 2) The Wiimote is used for Mario Galaxy type attacks, in-level gimmicks (such as see-saws) and the copter hat (as far as I'm aware). 3)Finally, the pick-up-and-play appeal of the Wii is perfectly suited for letting friends and family play together, jumping in or leaving at any point. 4)New Super Mario Bros. is a perfect - if not THE perfect - example of exactly what the Wii is all about.

1) No its not. Galaxy however showed the Wii could do pretty damn good graphics and it wouldn't hurt if Nintendo did the same for some of their other games, spin-off or otherwise. And once again, if this was a third-party graphics would mine. 2) Well I played Galaxy and as far as I know, it was just waggle at specific points. 3) I agree with that, but in what way are the 360 and PS3 methods not pick up and play? That and this isn't case with third parties (once again). 4)If thats what the Wii is supposed to be about then thats a shame. But much to their own. Don't get me wrong, I don't hate the Wii or Nintendo. It just has so much untapped potential tis all.

Edit: Yeah, new, I dunno decent Mario game if they can.

Edited October 18, 2009 by blackherox

[speedfreak]

People expect innovation too much and too soon IMO. Some people want Nintendo to reinvent the wheel with every new game. "Oh no, Mario Galaxy 2 looks similar to the critically acclaimed Mario Galaxy! How lazy!" I would have killed for a "lazy" sequel to Mario 64 back in the N64 days. As long as it's as fun as the original I don't care if it uses the same graphics, art or whatever. The levels are different and that's enough for me to be excited. Besides, the first Galaxy was about the best looking Wii game you could get. It may be possible to get to much of a good thing, but I'd hardly call two excellent games with similar design too much by a long shot. For the first time we get 2 awesome 3D Mario adventures on one console and some people still find something to complain about. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

I really don't see why people would complain about NSMB either. It's MEANT to be a throwback to old style Mario games. A nostalgic romp for the fans of the classics. Isn't that why such a large number of the people on this board are excited for Needlemouse, because it's supposed to be a throwback to classic Sonic games? If you evolve the formula too much then you'll lose the point of doing a retro style game. Besides NSMBW does do a few things to differentiate itself from being completely classic. Such as Mario's added move set from the 3d games (wall jump, butt stomp, spin, etc.) and the whole 4 player co-op thing.

Also I've already stated that I thought LBP was cool but I honestly feel as a platformer it falls very short of Mario. All the customization was really cool but the actual platforming left something to be desired IMO.

Anyway on topic, a new Mario Party would be cool and all but if I had my choice I'd REALLY want a Yoshi's Island Wii. IMO Yoshi's Island is the only 2D platformer that equals Sonic 3 and Knuckles.

[Conando]

Oh, it's no doubt that Mario is being milked. Nintendo's doing a better job than Activision and Guitar Hero, though. ODST makes me tend to believe they're doing a better job than Microsoft and Halo too. 60 dollars for a 3 hour expansion. No thanks.

[Carbo]

Neither is NSMB Wii. Its graphics are new- They aren't ported over or reused from the DS game at all, despite their similar style.

I don't see how that post somehow relates to mine but okay.

The graphics are basically NSMB slightly HDified. There is no massive difference between those graphics and the original DS, they look practically like the same game but with bigger and more detailed levels.

NSMB Wii still looks like a glorified version of the DS game plus bonuses. Basically what Galaxy 2 is doing to Galaxy 1 at this point. How people can't see this is beyond me. It doesn't cary the name New Super Mario Bros. Wii for nothing.

People expect innovation too much and too soon IMO. Some people want Nintendo to reinvent the wheel with every new game. "Oh no, Mario Galaxy 2 looks similar to the critically acclaimed Mario Galaxy! How lazy!" I would have killed for a "lazy" sequel to Mario 64 back in the N64 days. As long as it's as fun as the original I don't care if it uses the same graphics, art or whatever. The levels are different and that's enough for me to be excited. Besides, the first Galaxy was about the best looking Wii game you could get. It may be possible to get to much of a good thing, but I'd hardly call two excellent games with similar design too much by a long shot. For the first time we get 2 awesome 3D Mario adventures on one console and some people still find something to complain about. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

I really don't see why people would complain about NSMB either. It's MEANT to be a throwback to old style Mario games. A nostalgic romp for the fans of the classics. Isn't that why such a large number of the people on this board are excited for Needlemouse, because it's supposed to be a throwback to classic Sonic games? If you evolve the formula too much then you'll lose the point of doing a retro style game. Besides NSMBW does do a few things to differentiate itself from being completely classic. Such as Mario's added move set from the 3d games (wall jump, butt stomp, spin, etc.) and the whole 4 player co-op thing.

I'm not expecting an innovasion because I never expect anything from Nintendo since Galaxy was another Hype Backlash for me. I'm expecting variety.

Edited October 18, 2009 by Oni-Tan

[Conando]

And I still fail to see how an entirely new set of worlds and levels, new power-ups, and new bosses is just a "few bonuses".

Let's face it. This is such a polarized argument that the two groups will never see eye-to-eye.

Edited October 18, 2009 by Hero Of Fate

[Carbo]

And I still fail to see how an entirely new set of worlds and levels, new power-ups, and new bosses is just a "few bonuses".

Because Super Mario Galaxy 2 is more of an expansion pack than a glorification.

And note when I say glorification for NSMB Wii, I say that it's practically updated, changed to some extent and made prettier. Add that with my word of "few bonuses" and you got yourself NSMB Wii in a nutshell. But if you dont agree with that then I guess there's nothing I can do about that.

Edited October 18, 2009 by Oni-Tan

[SuperLink]

Mario Galaxy 2 I will never see as "lazy" unless they re-use too much music and stage themes, because the original was probably among the top the Wii can actually achieve, and I'm fine with more of something incredible.

I did go through a phase of saying "Hey, in this gen atleast they're milking Mario with PROPER games rather than just spin offs", seriously, last gen all we got was Mario Sunshine, that was the ONLY proper new Mario game, but this gen we have FOUR so far, even if one looks like it'll be a little disappointing to me... It's far better than millions of average sports and party games. I would like Nintendo to focus more on other franchises, but Mario brings them in cash, and as long as the games remain to be great it's really not that big a deal.

Yes, Mario is being milked, but it's not always a bad thing. Without milking the franchise, we never would have gotten the Mario RPG series, we never would have gotten Mario Tennis (Or the awesome handheld RPG versions!), we never would have gotten Mario Kart. Most of these games are pretty well loved.

The more spin offs there are, the better chance there is of one being fantastic. You know?

Edited October 18, 2009 by SuperLink

[Carbo]

Mario Galaxy 2 I will never see as "lazy" unless they re-use too much music and stage themes, because the original was probably among the top the Wii can actually achieve, and I'm fine with more of something incredible.

I did go through a phase of saying "Hey, in this gen atleast they're milking Mario with PROPER games rather than just spin offs", seriously, last gen all we got was Mario Sunshine, that was the ONLY proper new Mario game, but this gen we have FOUR so far, even if one looks like it'll be a little disappointing to me... It's far better than millions of average sports and party games. I would like Nintendo to focus more on other franchises, but Mario brings them in cash, and as long as the games remain to be great it's really not that big a deal.

Yes, Mario is being milked, but it's not always a bad thing. Without milking the franchise, we never would have gotten the Mario RPG series, we never would have gotten Mario Tennis (Or the awesome handheld RPG versions!), we never would have gotten Mario Kart. Most of these games are pretty well loved.

The more spin offs there are, the better chance there is of one being fantastic. You know?

I think I love you.

[speedfreak]

Mario Galaxy 2 I will never see as "lazy" unless they re-use too much music and stage themes, because the original was probably among the top the Wii can actually achieve, and I'm fine with more of something incredible.

I did go through a phase of saying "Hey, in this gen atleast they're milking Mario with PROPER games rather than just spin offs", seriously, last gen all we got was Mario Sunshine, that was the ONLY proper new Mario game, but this gen we have FOUR so far, even if one looks like it'll be a little disappointing to me... It's far better than millions of average sports and party games. I would like Nintendo to focus more on other franchises, but Mario brings them in cash, and as long as the games remain to be great it's really not that big a deal.

Yes, Mario is being milked, but it's not always a bad thing. Without milking the franchise, we never would have gotten the Mario RPG series, we never would have gotten Mario Tennis (Or the awesome handheld RPG versions!), we never would have gotten Mario Kart. Most of these games are pretty well loved.

The more spin offs there are, the better chance there is of one being fantastic. You know?

Yeah, I pretty much agree with you SuperLink. What's the forth proper Mario game though?

1 Mario Galaxy

2 New Super Mario Bros. Wii

3 Mario Galaxy 2

4 ?

Edit: Oh wait, were you counting DS too? So you mean the first NSMB then? Would Yoshi's Island DS/2 count also? If the first Yoshi's Island is considered a Mario Game the second should because of how similar the two are. I guess not everyone counts YI as a Mario game though.

Edited October 18, 2009 by speedfreak

[SuperLink]

NSMB obv (it is a 7th gen game, even if it's pretty old by now). I did enjoy that a lot and my only disappointment was the slight lack of stages and the difficulty.

EDIT: So yes DS games included.

I guess you could even include Mario 64 DS (although I didn't include the Advance series for last gen simply because they were remakes)

EDIT2: No I wouldn't count Yoshi's Island, as far as I'm concerned Yoshi and Wario are part of their own series' rather than Mario's mainstream series.

Edited October 18, 2009 by SuperLink