Sonic Frontiers - Teaser Trailer

[CertifiedNobody]

2 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

And we've been hearing the "get Sonic right first" excuse since 2010. Honestly if we do get more playable characters (not counting DIY avatar) then I want them available from the start, because the Shadow DLC in Forces was so brief and underwhelming. Also if the leaks have any credibility we might get a honest to god 3D game; one that isn't reliant on 2D sections taking up more than half the game.

Forces proved it wrong too since Shadow and the Avatar were easily the best part of it and that game didn't get Sonic right at all.

[Kazhnuz]

For me, it'll depends a lot (re: other character) if the "tree skills" thingy in the old "leak" is true or not. If it is, alternate character might be something that isn't part of the concept. Calling them for getting an hand (a bit like BotW powers) could be a way to bring them.

But honestly… other character or not, I don't really care, the biggestion question is more "what actually this game will be". The question of "other character" come after that. If their game-design depend of solo-character, it'll be solo-character and it doesn't bother me too much.

[Sega DogTagz]

21 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

i want them available from the start, because the Shadow DLC in Forces was so brief and underwhelming.

was this really a problem for Forces? Not only did Shadow get a small handful of his own levels, but if I am remembering correctly Shadow was also playable in most of Sonic's levels to boot.

[Kuzu]

Shadow was playable in every level except for the ones with QTE events, so all but like two or three. 

[knuckles20]

27 minutes ago, Sega DogTagz said:

was this really a problem for Forces? Not only did Shadow get a small handful of his own levels, but if I am remembering correctly Shadow was also playable in most of Sonic's levels to boot.

It's the small handful of original levels along with his story combined being less than 20 minutes is what left me unimpressed. Sure it's a free download, but the fact that it was DLC, it felt like it was a last minute decision that wasn't planned in a desperate plea to appeal to 2000s fans.

 

[KingMario05]

1 hour ago, knuckles20 said:

And we've been hearing the "get Sonic right first" excuse since 2010. Honestly if we do get more playable characters (not counting DIY avatar) then I want them available from the start, because the Shadow DLC in Forces was so brief and underwhelming. Also with Rangers being an open world game, we could finally get a honest to god 3D game in years; one that isn't reliant on 2D sections taking up more than half the game.

This. Let me play as Tails again, God fucking damn it.

[expansivelovestories]

yes; i am optimistic that the trailer was Sonic only, just in that it was introducing the idea that the game exists and is being developed!! 

i feel like Tails and Knuckles will only be absent if their gameplay is impossible to program beyond a certain threshhold of playability.  The description of the environment, although not too detailed, from the leak, does come across like it would be very compatible with flying, gliding and climbing. 

[Red Hot Jack]

I'm still sticking with the idea that Sonic is the only playable character once again, but mostly because it's already hard for them (or it must be I believe) to figure out the whole open world thing, having other playable characters besides Sonic would be an even bigger task, it's sad to say but that's what I think. Maybe Shadow? It wouldn't be too hard to program because it'd be like Sonic, but still they need to find a way to have more stories again, whether it's the same open world, or a modified one for Shadow.

In any case, I think they should focus on making the game not buggy (cough Colors Ultimate cough), and functional, a big explorable world, and a fun new gameplay with side-quests and puzzles, as well as cool boost stages.

I also think other characters, at least some of them, will appear as NPC in some fashion, they will find a way to include some characters even if the plot is about a mysterious abandoned island or whatever.

[CertifiedNobody]

5 hours ago, Jack-al said:

I'm still sticking with the idea that Sonic is the only playable character once again, but mostly because it's already hard for them (or it must be I believe) to figure out the whole open world thing, having other playable characters besides Sonic would be an even bigger task, it's sad to say but that's what I think. Maybe Shadow? It wouldn't be too hard to program because it'd be like Sonic, but still they need to find a way to have more stories again, whether it's the same open world, or a modified one for Shadow.

In any case, I think they should focus on making the game not buggy (cough Colors Ultimate cough), and functional, a big explorable world, and a fun new gameplay with side-quests and puzzles, as well as cool boost stages.

I also think other characters, at least some of them, will appear as NPC in some fashion, they will find a way to include some characters even if the plot is about a mysterious abandoned island or whatever.

I'd find it hard to believe that SEGA wouldn't try to capitalize on Tails and Knuckles being in the upcoming movie, as they've mentioned that they've been communicating with the movie team more this time around. Plus, they've been skewing more towards multiple playable characters with Mania, Forces, Mania Plus, TSR, and even Tails Save and the cancelled playable Metal Sonic for Colors Ultimate. Also I doubt it would be that hard as they did SIX new styles in Adventure, the first real 3D game. Besides they've been given an year extra year of dev time thanks to COVID. And does "Rangers" not imply multiple playable characters?

As I said earlier in the thread, it can be as simple as making them play the same as Sonic but with a few unique powers and exclusive areas. 

[Scar]

23 hours ago, CertifiedNobody said:

Forces proved it wrong too since Shadow and the Avatar were easily the best part of it and that game didn't get Sonic right at all.

The whole game was a total shambles, and being the best amongst a several piles of manure isn't really much to write home about.

Multiple characters complicates games because you need to be able to design levels to accommodate for their abilities. If they can barely put together a competent solo Sonic game - where they only have to design gameplay and levels around a single moveset, then they haven't got a chance if they have multiple movesets and capabilities to deal with.

 

[KingMario05]

4 hours ago, Scar said:

Multiple characters complicates games because you need to be able to design levels to accommodate for their abilities. If they can barely put together a competent solo Sonic game - where they only have to design gameplay and levels around a single moveset, then they haven't got a chance if they have multiple movesets and capabilities to deal with.

 

I see your point, but consider this: just limit it to similar characters. All three members of Team Sonic are canonical speedsters, and two of them can stay in the air for long periods of time without aid. That already creates a shit-load of overlap, as Mania and the classics show us. Just combine this with certain section which require Tails' flight or Knuckles' burrowing skills. Not as simple as Sonic-only, but it can't be that hard.

Edited October 7, 2021 by KingMario05
grammar is ver y hards

[Multikaris]

On 10/5/2021 at 2:45 PM, knuckles20 said:

It's the small handful of original levels along with his story combined being less than 20 minutes is what left me unimpressed. Sure it's a free download, but the fact that it was DLC, it felt like it was a last minute decision that wasn't planned in a desperate plea to appeal to 2000s fans.

 

…I see. 
 

So, about the playable characters thing, I feel like it’s possible we could get a playable new character, which could be hugely hit or miss based on their design and gameplay, given how Forces has the OC creator. Given the backlash Classic Sonic got, I’d be surprised if he’s playable even if he has any role. Speaking of which, have they forgotten Classic Eggman? Zavok, who fell into lava, managed to return in TSR approx of nothing, for example. (Forces’s use of him can be justified as an illusion, but why him over Black Doom, Mephiles, Erazor, Merlina, Mecha Sonic, Rouge, Biolizard, the Babylon Rogues, or even Eggman Nega?). Would we have to wait for a new Classic project to see where he ended up? 

As far as the returning characters are concerned, there’s no real mention of them in the apparent narrative, but they could be shoehorned in easily. 

Even then, if we end up with Yacker or Zavok playable… 

[FlameStream]

I've always thought Sonic works better as a secondary character, given his nature and requirements (super speed display being the most notorious) that practically any of the other slower, less restrictive cast would make a generally more fulfilling game. But.. I guess the issue here is that it won't be a "Sonic" game as people know/expect, but more a Sonic world game lol. I'd personally like that anyway.

[KingMario05]

4 hours ago, FlameStream said:

I've always thought Sonic works better as a secondary character, given his nature and requirements (super speed display being the most notorious) that practically any of the other slower, less restrictive cast would make a generally more fulfilling game. But.. I guess the issue here is that it won't be a "Sonic" game as people know/expect, but more a Sonic world game lol. I'd personally like that anyway.

With you on this. Gimme the speedy Tails game about saving a corrupted Sonic from Insomniac or give me DEATH, Sega.

Spoiler

Yes, you have to eke out a PC port from them. They're doing it for Uncharted, so no fucking excuses.

 

[Sega DogTagz]

14 hours ago, KingMario05 said:

Not as simple as Sonic-only, but it can't be that hard.

I think you're selling the playtesting phase of such a request hella short.

I mean, you really only need to look at a speedrun video of boost era sonic to see how ridiculously easy it is to flat out slingshot sonic over absurd chunks of level. And those are being done on courses designed to contain him. Whenever you combine a physics engine with a character that can push past mach 1, your going to have your hands full in terms of designing track that is impervious to exploitation. Even back in SA1 and 2, Sonic could cheese a lot of the platforming with a spindash jump. Incorporating that into an open world setting, where the player is capable of approaching a problem from any angle is ripe for some shenanigans.

So on top of dealing with all that, turning around and doubling down with a character that can glide and climb, and again for another that can full on fly? Its not impossible of course, but I don't think anyone should be of the mind that it can be done without extensive effort. Even with his 90% identical moveset, you can't just drop Tails into Sonic's levels and expect it to work.

 

 

 

Sonic Team will have to play its usual genre roulette to find a game-play quirk to slow down the pace. I think there has been enough pushback for them to realize the benefit of using one of the other main characters being a part of that roulette again. We have been getting second and third characters fairly consistently now. the werehog and classic sonic in gens/forces were both second characters - they just happened to be Sonic. The avatar was another step in that direction.

It wouldn't shock me to see one of the other fuzzies as playable for this go around, but I would tap the breaks on expecting them to be available beyond limited sections. That's just a ton of playtesting for a dev taking its first dip into this territory.

 

 

[KingMario05]

1 hour ago, Sega DogTagz said:

I think you're selling the playtesting phase of such a request hella short.

I mean, you really only need to look at a speedrun video of boost era sonic to see how ridiculously easy it is to flat out slingshot sonic over absurd chunks of level. And those are being done on courses designed to contain him. Whenever you combine a physics engine with a character that can push past mach 1, your going to have your hands full in terms of designing track that is impervious to exploitation. Even back in SA1 and 2, Sonic could cheese a lot of the platforming with a spindash jump. Incorporating that into an open world setting, where the player is capable of approaching a problem from any angle is ripe for some shenanigans.

So on top of dealing with all that, turning around and doubling down with a character that can glide and climb, and again for another that can full on fly? Its not impossible of course, but I don't think anyone should be of the mind that it can be done without extensive effort. Even with his 90% identical moveset, you can't just drop Tails into Sonic's levels and expect it to work.

 

 

 

Sonic Team will have to play its usual genre roulette to find a game-play quirk to slow down the pace. I think there has been enough pushback for them to realize the benefit of using one of the other main characters being a part of that roulette again. We have been getting second and third characters fairly consistently now. the werehog and classic sonic in gens/forces were both second characters - they just happened to be Sonic. The avatar was another step in that direction.

It wouldn't shock me to see one of the other fuzzies as playable for this go around, but I would tap the breaks on expecting them to be available beyond limited sections. That's just a ton of playtesting for a dev taking its first dip into this territory.

 

 

Well, better than nothing I guess. Still, I wish they'd do it like the classics. There is a reason everyone loved Mania, and it wasn't because they shoved in Green Hill yet a-fucking-gain.

[Sega DogTagz]

1 hour ago, KingMario05 said:

Well, better than nothing I guess. Still, I wish they'd do it like the classics. There is a reason everyone loved Mania, and it wasn't because they shoved in Green Hill yet a-fucking-gain.

Agreed. But in the sake a fairness, its much easier to tackle this problem in 2D vs 3D.

[KingMario05]

1 hour ago, Sega DogTagz said:

Agreed. But in the sake a fairness, its much easier to tackle this problem in 2D vs 3D.

True, true. So... any other hopes for 2022?

[Red Hot Jack]

Another topic I want to talk about: Infinite. Do you think there is a chance he comes back? Whether we like him or not. He ended in a mysterious note in Forces, the teaser has hints of digital blur with tiny blocks, and according to early leaks, Infinite's theme played during a boss, it was likely a placeholder music but what do you think about it?

[Kazhnuz]

I'm quite mitigated on this.

Well, in a way, I wouldn't be surprised if the Sonic Team wanted to do that, and its true that the different elements can make us think about him (virtual themes, for instance). And Toyoda seems to have now an important role in handling Sonic storytelling (even if we can't be sure that he conceptualised Forces story as there is another japanese writer), so maybe he is writing Rangers too (and tbh, I wouldn't be unhappy to see his work without Pontaff interference, I love his story on the Sonic Channel)

But they also seems to go in a new direction for this game, so I would tend to think that they'll certainly go in a quite different way about story too. And the few other "story elements" that we have in the same leak that talk about the music seems to go in another direction than "Infinite is back", imo. So maybe that the "virtual" theme are for some kind of "ancient vs/+ technology" aesthetic (which is quite the vibe that the trailer got).

So, I don't think he'll be there, but I wouldn't be surprised to be wrong.

 

About the story, if I had to make a wild, certainly wrong guess:

Spoiler

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a link between Flynn knowing "things" that he can't reveal about the origin of the Chaos Emerald and this game.

 

[CertifiedNobody]

3 hours ago, Jack-al said:

Another topic I want to talk about: Infinite. Do you think there is a chance he comes back? Whether we like him or not. He ended in a mysterious note in Forces, the teaser has hints of digital blur with tiny blocks, and according to early leaks, Infinite's theme played during a boss, it was likely a placeholder music but what do you think about it?

The music could be a placeholder track, but why specifically his theme when there are plenty of generic boss themes to use instead? And I'm certain Sega has plans for Infinite, otherwise he wouldn't be off-limits for the IDW comics right now

[FlameStream]

I'm just hoping that if they do, the ties with Eggman are severed. The same threat coming back over and over makes the world seem very small.

[CertifiedNobody]

3 hours ago, KingMario05 said:

True, true. So... any other hopes for 2022?

I hope the game is long. Although I love Colors and Gens, and don't hate Forces, I'm tired of short budget games. I want Rangers to put Sonic on the same level as Mario Odyssey and BOTW. Preferably the 40-50 hours you'd expect from other open world games.

[Diogenes]

3 minutes ago, CertifiedNobody said:

The music could be a placeholder track, but why specifically his theme when there are plenty of generic boss themes to use instead? And I'm certain Sega has plans for Infinite, otherwise he wouldn't be off-limits for the IDW comics right now

Forces is the most recent game, its assets are probably the closest at hand. And Sega restricts a bunch of things for who knows what reasons and it's never amounted to anything.

[Wraith]

3 hours ago, Jack-al said:

Another topic I want to talk about: Infinite. Do you think there is a chance he comes back? Whether we like him or not. He ended in a mysterious note in Forces, the teaser has hints of digital blur with tiny blocks, and according to early leaks, Infinite's theme played during a boss, it was likely a placeholder music but what do you think about it?

I'm 99% sure the answer is no. Sonic Team usually likes to make each game a fresh start outside of direct sequels and Rangers probably isn't going to look or play much like forces. I think we're looking at a fresh cast.

...But the 1% in the back of my mind is saying the mandates that are apparently around him and not literally any other iconography in Forces are...strange. If it went over their heads that he wasn't that popular and they used him again, I wouldn't be surprised. It wouldn't be the first time.