Abortion

[Jeffhog]

I think Eternal got the idea now, but I think we railed on him for a bit longer than we would've liked...

With that, I leave this.

[Red Cap]

He is defending rape.

And it's not cool that he is. Buuut, I don't think he should be called a piece of shit left and right because he has a really, really stupid opinion.

Maybe I'm just too used to seeing highly offensive opinions on the internet, because his posts really didn't offend me. And I know people that have been raped. (Not saying I don't CARE about people who've gone through that. I just don't care about peoples opinions all that much)

Edited April 6, 2012 by Red Cap-Blue Spikes

[Gaming Misfit]

This is why these topics are a bad idea in the first place.

[LATER BUDDY]

So instead of criticizing how we (like all of us members in general) handle mature topics and that we usually can't do them, how about we get back on topic sensible so I don't have to press that magic lock button, D;?

EDIT: Or read Sean's post below, it's better, harder, and drills it into your face better LOL.

[Sean]

This is why these topics are a bad idea in the first place.

Ugh, do you guys understand just how much of a fucking privilege it is that we actually let you discuss topics about religion, abortion, and politics (and at one point we even had topics on sex, but that got out of hand and those days are gone)? There are plenty of boards out there that ban such controversial discussion, but it's your guys' damn problem that stupid shit like this happens.

You could discuss this in a civil manner but I guess you guys think that that can't be the case.

[Gaming Misfit]

The post was based entirely on a focus of the members making the same mistakes. I'm not questioning what's allowed at SSMB in any way... O.o

Geez.

*leaves thread a bit freaked out now*

Edited April 6, 2012 by Christopher

[LATER BUDDY]

Please note I wasn't even in any way relating that to the staff; in fact I was agreeing with you that it's our own faults.

*leaves thread a bit weirded out now*

Oh I know, I'm really saying that just pointing out how "we" (as in you members, and including us too, we're faults of it at times as well), doesn't do anything other than escalate more problems, and it's just better to get back to topic's main stage so to say, XD. So come back!

So how about dems abortions guys? I like abort buttons, like big red ones that a robotic announcer says "ABORT! ABORT! ABORT!" in a factory or lab.

[The Weeb with No Name]

My genes are legendary.

Aborting a child of mine would not only be a crime to him/her, but to humanity as a whole.

[Nepenthe]

One thing I've never understood about that mild pro-lifers is that they tell women to think long and hard about the consequences of having an abortion before deciding to have one. Do they think significant numbers of women are skipping into abortion clinics and treating the decision like they're torn between two pairs of shoes? I don't know; there seems like an insinuation that women treat the issue without the seriousness it deserves and are ignorant about it, despite the fact that they're the ones having the procedure.

[-Robin-]

As far as current events go in the abortion debate, numerous laws are being passed by state governments to fight abortion proceedings. Unfortunately, these bills are seemingly more anti-women than they are educating women and men about responsible sex and abortions, which many believe would reduce the number of abortions more than physical action, due to their effects and wording. I'll list some of the more recent stuff that's happened, so we are up to date on current events (I apologize if the links I'm providing are from blatantly biased sites, but I have yet to find a site that has these topics without having bias as well.)

- Bills that would require women to have a transvaginal ultrasound if they seek an abortion procedure have been introduced to, and some passed by, numerous states. The common argument on these ultrasound bills is that, by definition, it is no different than rape; there's also some issue with the transvaginal ultrasound having no medical benefit whatsoever. Some of these bills have been edited from the original form to include a notice that women can choose not to have this ultrasound. In many of these bills, a 24-hour waiting period after the ultrasound is required before the process can continue.

- http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-03-11/texas-planned-parenthood/53483484/1 - Governor Rick Perry recently defunded Planned Parenthood - as in, cut off all Medicaid funds from the program - in an effort to prevent abortions. Unfortunately, this also means that roughly 130,000 women in Texas are now without medical insurance, as PP was their insurance provider, regardless of whether they were seeking abortions or not. As per Medicaid's legal boundaries (which, incidentally, does not donate fundings to institutions specifically for abortion-related activities), the Obama administration had no choice but to block Medicaid funding to Texas; In true Rick Perry fashion, the governor is trying to sue the administration by claiming his 10th Amendment rights were opposed. It is not clear how Perry actually plans to cover these now uninsured women, but he said he will get the estimated $30 million from somewhere.

- http://azcapitoltimes.com/news/2012/03/06/senate-approves-bill-on-wrongful-births/ - Arizona is trying to pass a law that would grant doctors immunity to "wrongful birth" lawsuits; "wrongful births" are those where the child is born with a condition that the doctor was supposed to inform the mother about, but chose not to do so. Effectively, this would allow doctors to lie to women about her health and the fetus's health, if it meant saving it from abortion.

- http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/04/03/arizona-bill-bans-abortion-after-18-weeks-forces-women-to-undergo-transvaginal-ultrasounds/ - Arizona is also the latest state to impose a time limit on when abortions are legal. The law imposes a limit at 18 weeks, a full 6 weeks before several medical professionals agree where viability begins.

- http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/05/mississippi-abortion-bill_n_1404705.html - Mississippi - who last year rejected a personhood bill through Mississippian voter elections - is trying to pass a bill, through closed doors, that would require "all physicians who perform abortions have admitting privileges at a local hospital and be board certified in obstetrics and gynecology." Hospitals have full rights to deny admitting privileges to doctors, so this indirectly attempts to close down the abortion clinics in the state.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Modern Tom

[Eternal EX]

No I am saying that is rape and the fact that you are defending it in any way makes you a piece of shit.

Wait what? How the hell am I defending rape? In no way did I say rape was okay. I was saying.........

*sees mods post*

I'm done. Sorry if I started anything.

I wouldn't sweat it much, you're cool yo, =D -Wolfy

[The Weeb with No Name]

Don't sweat it Eternal. I knew what you were trying to say.

You have to work on how you word things like that, though. Make sure that, when you put your thoughts out there, that you absolve any and all doubt of what your message's true intentions might actually be. Doing so is imperative when discussing such... touchy things.

Edited April 6, 2012 by Jayhawker30

[Patticus]

@Modern Tom: It's apalling that these people believe they have a right to ride over democratic and legal process. They think their opinion matters more than anyone elses, and they don't have to abide by the usual rules of government. The arrogance is sickening.

Edit: Just um, just gonna sneak this in here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-pWoVSrKXo&feature=player_embedded

Edited April 6, 2012 by Patticus

[Chaos Warp]

I think Abortion is really up to the woman in question. I admit I am for it (What if the condom breaks during sex? What if the birth control fails? And of course the obvious one that caused a shitstorm in this topic) because of the accidents that can happen during sexual activity (even if you are being smart about it with birth control and all), but It's really up to the pregnant one.

[-Robin-]

@Modern Tom: It's apalling that these people believe they have a right to ride over democratic and legal process. They think their opinion matters more than anyone elses, and they don't have to abide by the usual rules of government. The arrogance is sickening.

[leave_nothing]

Not really pleasant dinner conversation but it's important to note the rare ineffectiveness in condoms and birth control and the necessity of having a worst-case scenario fallback.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Hey, I got a question.

Exactly how are people educated over abortions? Wouldn't a class that helps detail these things ease the heat a bit? Sex Ed is kind of the same way, there a people who are so against it despite how educating them about it would likely benefit them. So while we would still get the irrational nut-jobs or paranoid people still arguing over this, wouldn't some degree of education in the schools ease the tension somewhat?

I remember writing a paper regarding stem-cell research as a freshmen, and part of what I found was that it was nothing but a bunch of cells instead of a fetus in the 3rd trimester as some extreme pro-lifers seem to think of it as. So that's why I'm asking this.

That's probably asking for too much. Tennessee has just made a bill that stirs up the whole controversy over evolution again, and the US in general seems to be getting increasingly stupid in these areas when they mix them in politics. How the hell have the Europeans dealt with this while we still have others keeping us in the dark?

Edited April 7, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Mollfie]

I've already contributed to this thread a few page back, so I don't have much to add really. Just thought I would share this image because it has a very good point.

There are more here if you want to see others by various people.

[Patticus]

I've already contributed to this thread a few page back, so I don't have much to add really. Just thought I would share this image because it has a very good point.

There are more here if you want to see others by various people.

Those people have very good points, and I agree with them. These messages really ought to be plastered all over the bloody place though, because only by being exposed on a massive scale will their points actually sink in.

*Posts it on Facebook*

[JezMM]

Hey, I got a question.

Exactly how are people educated over abortions? Wouldn't a class that helps detail these things ease the heat a bit? Sex Ed is kind of the same way, there a people who are so against it despite how educating them about it would likely benefit them. So while we would still get the irrational nut-jobs or paranoid people still arguing over this, wouldn't some degree of education in the schools ease the tension somewhat?

I remember writing a paper regarding stem-cell research as a freshmen, and part of what I found was that it was nothing but a bunch of cells instead of a fetus in the 3rd trimester as some extreme pro-lifers seem to think of it as. So that's why I'm asking this.

That's probably asking for too much. Tennessee has just made a bill that stirs up the whole controversy over evolution again, and the US in general seems to be getting increasingly stupid in these areas when they mix them in politics. How the hell have the Europeans dealt with this while we still have others keeping us in the dark?

My sex ed was very bare-bones. They never really go into details about stuff like abortion, both biologically and emotionally. I'd like to hope in these modern times they've become at least a bit more thorough.

The problem is most of the places that are against abortion just simply prefer to be away with the fairies and tell nothing but "don't do it" to kids because anything resembling the truth might so much as glamorise or justify what they're against. Really it's propaganda, nothing but.

[-Robin-]

MADISON — Gov. Scott Walker quietly signed a set of contentious GOP bills barring abortion coverage through health insurance exchanges, requiring doctors to consult privately with women seeking abortions and mandating sex education teachers stress abstinence.

Walker, a Republican, signed the bills Thursday but didn't announce the move until midday Friday, when his office released a list of more than 50 bills he signed Thursday and Friday. Walker's spokesman, Cullen Werwie, said it was simpler to lump all the bills signed over the two days into one announcement.

Democrats have ripped the measures as an all-out attack on women. They heaped criticism on the governor Friday, calling the delay in announcing the signings cowardly and the bills bizarre social policy.

"Perhaps he thought that in doing this behind closed doors, with no public notice, before a holiday weekend for many families, his actions would go unnoticed. He was wrong. We will not be silent — these issues are too important to ignore," Rep. Kelda Helen Roys, D-Madison, said in a statement.

Werwie declined to comment.

Pro-Life Wisconsin issued a statement praising the governor for signing "common sense bills that protect children, women and taxpayers."

The first bill bans abortion coverage through policies obtained through a health insurance exchange, set to be created under the federal health care reform law starting in 2014. The only exceptions would be in cases of rape, incest or medical necessity.

The exchanges are meant to be a marketplace for small businesses and individuals to shop for health insurance coverage.

States are required to either set up an exchange or face having one established for them by the federal government. Federal law allows states to prohibit abortions coverage through the exchange.

Democrats contend banning abortion coverage infringes on the free market. Republicans said they're advantage of the federal abortion exemptions.

The second bill requires a woman seeking an abortion to undergo an exam and consult with a doctor alone, away from her friends and family. The doctor must determine whether someone is pressuring the woman into the procedure. Doctors who break the law could be charged with a felony.

Republicans contend the bill will ensure women aren't coerced into abortions and prevent doctor-patient consultations via webcam.

But opponents argue webcam consultations aren't currently done in Wisconsin and Republicans simply want to make it more difficult to get an abortion. The Wisconsin Medical Society, meanwhile, contends the bill interferes with the doctor-patient relationship. The association, as well as several Democrats, asked Walker to veto the measure.

The sex education bill requires teachers in schools that offer sex education to stress abstinence as the only sure way to prevent pregnancy and sexually transmitted diseases.

The bill also declares that sex education teachers do not have to address contraception. That's a dramatic shift from current state law, which requires teachers to instruct students on birth control options.

Democrats have argued that the bill is unrealistic and will lead to more teen pregnancies.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Modern Tom

[Mono]

Pretty soon women won't be able to vote. Fuck right-wingers.

[---]

Anyone who supports abortion and is against my beliefs is a filthy MURDERER.

I'm just joking, I honestly don't think that. Seriously though, I think a somewhat plausible excuse for abortion is health problems, like if the baby will be born with a fatal disease or if the mother will die during birth, yea then guess it'd be okay. However, if you're just "not ready to be a mom" or some selfish ish like that, I can't say I'd agree. I say reach a compromise and have the baby, but maybe give it up for adoption, that's a good way to handle it.

[Dr. Mechano]

Regardless of one's position, I'm tired of the two sides demonizing one another. Pro-lifers aren't actively trying to oppress women, and pro-choicers aren't actively trying to kill babies. I think- as passionate a topic as this is- meeting for a respectful dialogue is important.

I think the debate is less over "Is abortion right or wrong?" and more about the underlying question, "At what point does life begin?"

I'm against abortion, but I realize that pro-choice advocates don't generally consider the fetus to be a living person, and ergo from their perspective they can honestly say they value life as much as I do; Simply because they don't consider the fetus to qualify as "life" in the first place. In light of this, I implore others who share my position to respect and understand the pro-choice people and their position. I may not agree with it, but I can understand and sympathize with why they're motivated to believe what they do.

By the same token, the pro-choice advocates should know that the very motivation for the pro-life position is that we believe that the fetus is alive and does count as a person. In light of this, whatever issues or inconveniences (barring life-threatening medical complications, of course) may befall the mother become trivial when compared to the loss of human life. It isn't that we want to stifle the rights of pregnant women, but that we question whether the right to end someone else's life is truly hers to begin with.

...As for forcing women to carry stillborn babies and/or deliver even in highly dangerous medical circumstances? No, that is messed up and absolutely not okay, no matter what side of the debate you're on. I hope that most of us can at least agree on that point.

Edited April 10, 2012 by Dr. Mechano

[Mono]

Anyone who supports abortion and is against my beliefs is a filthy MURDERER.

I'm just joking, I honestly don't think that. Seriously though, I think a somewhat plausible excuse for abortion is health problems, like if the baby will be born with a fatal disease or if the mother will die during birth, yea then guess it'd be okay. However, if you're just "not ready to be a mom" or some selfish ish like that, I can't say I'd agree. I say reach a compromise and have the baby, but maybe give it up for adoption, that's a good way to handle it.

Getting an abortion because you're "not ready to be a mom" is a perfect reason to have an abortion.