Super Smash Bros. Ultimate - DADDY SAKURAI'S WILD RIDE HAS CONCLUDED

[KHCast]

15 minutes ago, tailsBOOM! said:

My biggest hope is it isn't an Activision-Blizzard character as I've not let any of my money go to them in years for other stuff prior to the current bullshit

Personally, I’m also throwing in Ubisoft into that, but since I already bought the fighters pass, I don’t really got much say if it’s Crash or Tracer or Rayman. 
 

As for the Fortnite stuff, wasn’t aware of its popularity in Japan. As far as Battle Royales go, I only knew Apex was super popular in Japan. I’m pretty sure Fortnite is gonna get content in smash. I just am not sure what that content will be. My go to guess was always Mii costumes, as I felt that just made the most sense, but a spirit event or a character are for sure also possibilities (especially since I believe the only free to play series represented in Smash is still just weirdly Warframe, via like one spirit.)

 

Edit: Also, totally forgot, but I’d also totally love to see a 1st party PlayStation rep be the final character so we can have all 3 big companies in one game. Ratchet, Aloy, Sly, Kratos, my personal want, Parappa lol, etc. I’d fucking love to see any of these

[Wraith]

6 hours ago, KHCast said:

Okay let’s be totally serious here for a second: how likely do you think the final character is a Fortnite rep?

Not likely. They are extremely slow when it comes to hopping on big modern titles. Minecraft was almost 10 years old by the time they added it

[KHCast]

11 minutes ago, Wraith said:

Not likely. They are extremely slow when it comes to hopping on big modern titles. Minecraft was almost 10 years old by the time they added it

True, but tbf they’ve been working on Steve for like 5-6 years, with that in mind, they did hop onto minecraft earlier, it just took long due to legal stuff I assume 

[Wraith]

30 minutes ago, KHCast said:

True, but tbf they’ve been working on Steve for like 5-6 years, with that in mind, they did hop onto minecraft earlier, it just took long due to legal stuff I assume 

Yeah it's just a trend with them I've noticed. Anything's possible.

[KHCast]

Beyond the Summits been going on during the weekend. It’s the last day, so if anyone is interested in watching the finals that’ll be later, here’s the twitch link 

 

https://www.twitch.tv/btssmash

[Perkilator]

Here's some Ace Attorney content I made for Smash:

• A moveset for Nick
• The AA stage and its songs
• Nick's Spirit Board

[KHCast]

Tweek just fucking 6-0ed MKLeo and won summit, breaking Leo’s win streak holy shit

[Remy]

22 hours ago, KHCast said:

Tweek just fucking 6-0ed MKLeo and won summit, breaking Leo’s win streak holy shit

With diddy kong, no less.

Little annoyed by all the pearl clutching about pyra and mythra being OP, when they didn't even win... my palu player cousin is gonna drag me for using a top tier.

 

[KHCast]

If anything, the stuff that went down at Summit should have showed off how versatile and applicable Pyra/Mythra are in so many situations. It was ridiculous how well people handled her offline at a high stakes tourney like that. They’re not OP, they're just all around good characters. Nerfs or not, I think they’ll probably be staying in high play tournament scene like Joker did.

[Wraith]

I don't really get the thought with ultimate that top tiers need to be toned down. Theres too many mid tier-below characters with playstyles that don't really work right. Just gocus on them and the game is fine think* 

*Disclaimer I haven't played this game seriously in 8 months cause of its netcode before I get owned like I did in that other topic

[Remy]

On 8/31/2021 at 11:32 AM, Remy said:

With diddy kong, no less.

Little annoyed by all the pearl clutching about pyra and mythra being OP, when they didn't even win... my palu player cousin is gonna drag me for using a top tier.

 

Update: He messaged me and said he's picking up mythra. :|Honestly good for me because I can definitely beat his mythra better than his Palu. 

 

23 hours ago, Wraith said:

I don't really get the thought with ultimate that top tiers need to be toned down. Theres too many mid tier-below characters with playstyles that don't really work right. Just focus on them and the game is fine think* 

*Disclaimer I haven't played this game seriously in 8 months cause of its netcode before I get owned like I did in that other topic

I totally agree. If this game has a balance issue it's with the mid to low tier types that just can't get over at all. Some characters have movesets that just seem to completely suck compared to others. Why DK up+B have to be horizontal like that?

People are very hyper fixated on the characters that show up on tournaments but I don't actually think there are too many problem children S+++ types in ult. Even if I absolutely hate playing against Palutena especially online. 

And yeah me either. The delay feels like garbage, and I'm not going out to locals in a pandemic. (both cuz it's not running and tbh when it starts up again I feel like it'd be a top tier place to catch covid) 

I really hope there is some smash game after this one that works online and I don't have to pick up April O'Neal in that Nicktoons game. 

that other topic was me releasing pent up fighting game opinions because i haven't been able to leave my house and talk to anyone in 3 weeks

[tailsBOOM!]

13 hours ago, Remy said:

With diddy kong, no less.

Little annoyed by all the pearl clutching about pyra and mythra being OP, when they didn't even win... my palu player cousin is gonna drag me for using a top tier.

 

 

10 hours ago, Wraith said:

I don't really get the thought with ultimate that top tiers need to be toned down. Theres too many mid tier-below characters with playstyles that don't really work right. Just gocus on them and the game is fine think* 

*Disclaimer I haven't played this game seriously in 8 months cause of its netcode before I get owned like I did in that other topic

There are definite top tiers and stuff, but balancing is better than most games.  Ironically, the worst designed thing in the game (As in, it's so bad I don't know of ANY other game- including prior Smash games that do this) is on a character that in normal gameplay isn't fast enough to abuse it, that being Sephiroth's One Wing having no start-up lag.  In literally every other example I can think of (Including Joker in Ultimate), Installs typically have a brief window of start-up lag to allow it to be punished if you are right next to them.  This compensates for the insane buffs to power (And other things depending on the character and game) that they get by allowing you to capitalize on it.  If Seph wasn't so slow (Which could easily change if he returns next game), more people who aren't as familiar with how a traditional install works would realize what a massive problem this is, as it removes all of the risk involved.

... also projectiles are extremely volatile (More so than past entries), to the point most competitive players think you need a projectile of some kind or a disjoint to be viable, but that's a whole other can of worms that would need universal reworks to allow more defensive options

[Remy]

12 hours ago, tailsBOOM! said:

If Seph wasn't so slow (Which could easily change if he returns next game), more people who aren't as familiar with how a traditional install works would realize what a massive problem this is, as it removes all of the risk involved.

Just imagining if Nago in Strive instantly went into bloodrage without the huge lag afterward that lets you punish him/react to whatever happened. 

The projectiles thing is interesting. Which projectiles do people think are over powered? I personally think palutena explosive flame is stupid as heck- like why does a completely disjointed, lingering projectile kill you? 

[tailsBOOM!]

Just now, Remy said:

Just imagining if Nago in Strive instantly went into bloodrage without the huge lag afterward that lets you punish him/react to whatever happened. 

The projectiles thing is interesting. Which projectiles do people think are over powered? I personally think palutena explosive flame is stupid as heck- like why does a completely disjointed, lingering projectile kill you? 

I think most are tbh.  There's very little counterplay for them at this moment in time.  While it's especially a problem online (Which is basically zoner heaven), projectiles tend to be spammable in smash vs the staggered approach of other fighting games.  This also is added to the fact shields were heavily nerfed in the transition to Ultimate:

(From Nerf - SmashWiki, the Super Smash Bros. wiki (ssbwiki.com))

Not to mention that, despite them being harder to pull off, parries don't do much to projectiles, especially spammier ones like the spacies (Screw Wolf fr.  Spammable and  deals up to 15% if spaced perfectly), which causes characters who lack a disjoint or projectile to rack damage insanely quick.  And it's not like they haven't thought of a way to counter them more... it's just locked to using Spirits.  The one in particular that would add even a little risk to projectile spam is one that reflects on parry (Melee ironically had a reflect on Power Shielding, which parrying replaced, yet arguably this entry needs it way more).

Spoiler

It's also crazy the number of Smash-only players who insist to me it's just match-ups.  Most fighting games have at least something to counteract every playstyle for every character, even if they have a hard time, be it bursts, (better) parries or other tools that are universal.  

[Remy]

I do think parries could use a buff in general, but I don't think the system changes to defense from Smash 4 is a bad thing.

Reflect parry might help too. I've noticed a lot of top tier characters are characters either have a really strong projectile, a reflect, or both. Allowing someone like DK to reflect annoying projectiles with a parry might really help the game (or it just make it even more chaotic???) I guess it's fine because there's so many reflects already.

I just wish though that if you parried something like Palu Side B or Pyra side B it would like... negate it or something. Especially as you can't reflect explosive flame.  It's annoying getting stuck in blockstun/hit by a multihit because you parried it too early.

In general parrying is maybe too weak in this game? there are so many times when I hit a parry on an aerial or something but my opponent still manages to recover before i can hit any type of punish. Sometimes this game feels like tekken where you only get anything good off of a whiff punish or someone just being a complete moron. Could also be a me problem not knowing my options/framedata properly.

[Wraith]

Most characters have fast, spammable air normals that double as good combo starters. Parrying isn't good to give you a way in most of the time, and movement doesn't have any good tools for microspacing like in previous games, so unlike Tekken you're only going to be able to punish someone flailing around if they're an idiot.

This pairs with the fact that most of the zoners, unlike other fighting games, actually have pretty strong normals when you actually do get close to them to make them an active pain in the ass to fight. A lot of them aren't broken, but they do have highly uninteractive playstyles that I think Smash could use less of.

All of this is accentuated online where it's harder to react to all of this stuff btw.

[Remy]

5 hours ago, Wraith said:

Most characters have fast, spammable air normals that double as good combo starters. Parrying isn't good to give you a way in most of the time, and movement doesn't have any good tools for microspacing like in previous games, so unlike Tekken you're only going to be able to punish someone flailing around if they're an idiot.

This pairs with the fact that most of the zoners, unlike other fighting games, actually have pretty strong normals when you actually do get close to them to make them an active pain in the ass to fight. A lot of them aren't broken, but they do have highly uninteractive playstyles that I think Smash could use less of.

All of this is accentuated online where it's harder to react to all of this stuff btw.

Yeah all of this really puts into words p much how I feel about this game sometimes and I why I get so mad playing it. I also feel like no matter how much I play it I don't really "understand" it beyond a surface level, and playing good players subjects me to more what the dang heck is goin on moments than any other fighter.

I think the uninteractive design, as you put of some of the high tiers makes the game into a really obnoxious game of tag. I hate characters like ZSS and Palutena- strong projectile options with wicked close range options, Palu in particular with armored dash attack, armored bair, full body covering nair, unreactable upair, makes neutral a hellhole and then when you finally hit her, it's not like you get a chance to do offense, she recovers to the stage with an invincible teleport, that be cancelled to be lag free by doing fucking ledge cancels! The small mercy of this game is normally that when someone gets knocked off stage you can edge guard them and spike them to hades. Not the top tiers! 

[Wraith]

Even when you do get a hit in, offense is such an unrewarding crapshoot because of all the escape buttons. Strings are shorter than ever, and going beyond two or three hits is usually asking for you to get mashed on and then the situation resets, or worse, you've been put in disadvantage! Have fun! Doing anything beyond the safest options is such a crapshoot, but eventually you're gonna get bored of mashing nair. That seems to be what the developers are counting on to keep things interesting, but it's not for me.

In a lot of ways I think it's the best Smash game but I've written it off taking it(and thus the rest of the series) seriously. Even without the netcode problems there's just too many things about this game that don't make sense.

I don't think it's a particularly good fighting game, not because it's a platform fighter or because of the simplified inputs or anything like that, but because under the hood, this game just isn't it.

As a game to fuck around with friends on it's great though, and that's what they were aiming for. Been playing it really lose with the rulesets in the past year+ and having a great time.

[KHCast]

I’m still honestly surprised Ultimate won “best fighting game” at the game awards tbh.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

I'm not. It's a legit good game that busted its chops making for good selling points.

[SupahBerry]

I'm hesitant to belive it really got awarded as a good fighter rather because of it's casual appeal and acceptability. Any amount of unrefined mechanics, one-sided matchups, lack of interaction, weak netcode and a constently hindered tournament scene means little when you boast hundreds of hot IPs all under one roof for general consumers to eat right up. A draw that goes completely unchallenged to this day.

 

Award shows are not the ones with the best judge of character anyway 

[Remy]

5 hours ago, KHCast said:

I’m still honestly surprised Ultimate won “best fighting game” at the game awards tbh.

 

I mean look at the competition...

• DOA6- An "alright" DOA game everyone except DOA players ignores, and even then DOA players wanted 5 back. 
• Samsho- Probably the best game here but completely unplayable online due to bad netcode and anemic playerbase
• Jump Force: Mega Trash
• MK11 : I mean I guess MK players/normies like it.

It was really only in competition with MK and I think if you compare the two smash still comes on top IMO. It's not like these awards shows are stack with pro fighting gamers or tabulating tournament results to see which one is the best.

 

 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

1 hour ago, Supah Berry said:

I'm hesitant to belive it really got awarded as a good fighter rather because of it's casual appeal and acceptability.

Nah, I'd argue that Smash still carries out its qualities in an elegant enough fashion that it was worthy. Not to mention, the competition it had.

[Remy]

Some of my posts here might make you think I don't like this game or something, but I've played it a lot and generally like it. my gripes are only really when you're playing super seriously. Basically Wraith's last post is something I agree with. 

• The best smash game
• Fun to play semi seriously with friends
• game falls apart at the top end due to frustrating/uninteractive/knowledge checky character design. While a lot of the top tiers have answers to their play it is often playing a frustrating, unintuitive, passive/safe style that gets you wins. I think smash is at it's most fun when you're doing flashy meteor smash edge guards so the game stifling this style of play sucks 
• I mostly play online against my cousin who loves using said uninteractive options more than anything else which turns the game into a really weird version of practically turn based rock paper scissors. 

I hope it's not the actual "ultimate" as in last smash bros because I think if they made maybe one more and continued the direction they're on they could have a really fantastic game. 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

I do agree to an extent.

While Smash Bros Ultimate is the best Smash game so far, there absolutely is room for improvement in a sequel.