Sonic Forces: Infinite Unmasked (SPOILERS/Speculation)

[Dr. Mechano]

Just now, Jovahexeon Cala Maria said:

I fear this is a bout of you taking the term a bit too close to heart. Which tends to be one of many, a common problem with these forum discusions lately, sadly. 

Allow me to assuage you of those fears then. I'm not upset with you, or with anyone here.

I think Infinite looks tremendously stupid and the sword certainly ain't helping, but none of that means I'm mad at anyone. People can and do voice their displeasure at media without attacking those who disagree with them. Which - as I encourage you to scour the thread and see for yourself - I have not. 

[Kuzu]

3 minutes ago, Ryannumber1Scarer said:

Considering it's coming from concept art of a comic cover, which are notorious for adding details to try draw attention, it's still not something you should be picking at much, because it's easy to assume the artist of the cover added it to just make Infinite look cool. It's not the first occurrence of a cover doing such:

 For example: 

Mega Man does not having weird glowing eyes, he doesn't have massive wires sticking out of his back, he isn't this battle damaged, and it isn't that huge a race, but it makes for an interesting cover that draws your eye and concludes one of the bigger arcs of the series.

So it's "cool" for the sake of being "cool"....the very thing I was criticizing about this whole thing to begin with sooooo....you're not really doing anything to disprove that this is simply just another "cool" thing they added for Infinite without any real reason on doing so.

3 minutes ago, Ryannumber1Scarer said:

huh well its almost like when you make a stink out of demanding context for your problem, you have to wait til context becomes available because surprisingly sega isn't going to release their entire story mode of the game one month beforehand to provide you with said context.

Like seriously? What the fuck do you expect when your argument is "we don't have any context for this", when it's never been officially shown or announced? Obviously you have to fucking wait til they release the context either through a screenshot, trailer, bio, or the game's story itself. 

All I did was comment on how I feel about the concept art. You're the one who's getting riled up and swearing I'm "hating" for doing so. 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

1 minute ago, Super Mechanio said:

Allow me to assuage you of those fears then. I'm not upset with you, or with anyone here.

I think Infinite looks tremendously stupid and the sword certainly ain't helping, but none of that means I'm mad at anyone. People can and do voice their displeasure at media without attacking those who disagree with them. Which - as I encourage you to scour the thread and see for yourself - I have not. 

 Oh not to worry. You're not one of the usual suspects. I never feared that of you.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Just now, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

So it's "cool" for the sake of being "cool"....the very thing I was criticizing about this whole thing to begin with sooooo....you're not really doing anything to disprove that this is simply just another "cool" thing they added for Infinite without any real reason on doing so.

I'm not disproving anything, this is giving context of using comic art covers as genuine attempt of determining an "attempt at making him look cool" isn't much to go off on because comic covers typically do that anyway, and have done so for years, so making a massive deal out of this, or better yet, assuming it's going to be in the game and furthermore blaming SEGA/the artist/whatever for something typically done in comics for decades is silly. 

2 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

All I did was comment on how I feel about the concept art. You're the one who's getting riled up and swearing I'm "hating" for doing so. 

And all I did was comment on my own thoughts. Yes, I'm getting a bit too annoyed, I'll admit that and apologise for that, I tend to get annoyed with Forces conversations, but using it as genuine striking against Infinite as a character isn't really going to work very well when again, comic covers do this all the time in order to sell the comics/story.

[Kuzu]

4 minutes ago, Crazy_Diamond said:

OK, no. You are saying that there is no contextual reason why Infinite has a sword. People replied by saying we have no contextual reason because we only saw it in an unfinished drawing. How is that an excuse? It's just a fact. You really expected a contextual reason right now?

Remember that Infinite doesn't have his armor in that image. It is very likely that this is before he got any of his powers. Thus, using a sword for self defense makes logical sense. Nothing we know about him suggests he needs one because we know nothing about his past. All we know is that he is a person like Sonic and co., and that the reason why he becomes powerful and why he becomes evil will be revealed in the Shadow DLC.

Did I say I wanted a contextual reason? I said the sword is simply another generic "cool" thing they gave him that has no reason to exist in it's current form. That's it. That;s not asking for anything more, that's simply commenting on what is currently in front of me right now.

And all of what you typed is simply speculation and will nothing more than that until the game is released. So until then, I have no real reason to believe anything about what you said is even remotely true.

[The Deleter]

Of course it's a blasted wait-and-see situation. You think that there will be no reason for Infinite to have a sword, despite a backstory and lost cause constantly being brought up in his own theme song?

4 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I'm presuming he has no reason to use a sword because nothing we know about him suggests he needs one. So I'm left assuming it's just another "cool" thing thrown in on top of every other "cool" thing with this character.

How about the fact that "He's gone up against better, just take a look at his face"? Implying active combat in his past? The fact that "Everything he's known has come and gone" and "Scars remain of who he was"? He had and lost something?

We know that Infinite had a completely different past before certain events turned him to evil, and these lyrics, at the very least. If you're going to be judging the concept of the sword as redundant because he has powers, the burden of proof lies on your end to explain how exactly he always had the Ruby's powers from the start, and how he decided to use a sword alongside them despite the redundancy. Because so far everything points to that not being the case. The sword is just another piece to the unfilled puzzle that is his past atm

[Kuzu]

3 minutes ago, Ryannumber1Scarer said:

I'm not disproving anything, this is giving context of using comic art covers as genuine attempt of determining an "attempt at making him look cool" isn't much to go off on because comic covers typically do that anyway, and have done so for years, so making a massive deal out of this, or better yet, assuming it's going to be in the game and furthermore blaming SEGA/the artist/whatever for something typically done in comics for decades is silly. 

And all I did was comment on my own thoughts. Yes, I'm getting a bit too annoyed, I'll admit that and apologise for that, I tend to get annoyed with Forces conversations, but using it as genuine striking against Infinite as a character isn't really going to work very well when again, comic covers do this all the time in order to sell the comics/story.

I'm using it against Infinite as a character because it's simply another point to a long list of everything they're doing to portray this character as "SUPER COOL BADASS, LOOK HOW COOL AND AWESOME HE IS" and how ridiculous it just comes off as. They're trying to get people to care by using the most generic of traits and I simply could not care less, but they're insisting that I should and it's extremely annoying to me.

[Crazy_Diamond]

4 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Did I say I wanted a contextual reason?

Yeah. You even bolded and enlarged it.

26 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Once again, you are missing the point. So allow me to spell it out.

 

Nobody has a problem with the sword by itself.

I'll say it again so people can read it.

NOBODY HAS A PROBLEM WITH THE SWORD FOR SIMPLY EXISTING.

THE "PROBLEM" IS MOSTLY HOW IT EXISTS, BUT THERE IS SEEMINGLY NO CONTEXTUAL REASON FOR IT.

[Kuzu]

6 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

Of course it's a blasted wait-and-see situation. You think that there will be no reason for Infinite to have a sword, despite a backstory and lost cause constantly being brought up in his own theme song?

How about the fact that "He's gone up against better, just take a look at his face"? Implying active combat in his past? The fact that "Everything he's known has come and gone" and "Scars remain of who he was"? He had and lost something?

We know that Infinite had a completely different past before certain events turned him to evil, and these lyrics, at the very least. If you're going to be judging the concept of the sword as redundant because he has powers, the burden of proof lies on your end to explain how exactly he always had the Ruby's powers from the start, and how he decided to use a sword alongside them despite the redundancy. Because so far everything points to that not being the case. The sword is just another piece to the unfilled puzzle that is his past atm

Unless all of this is revealed in game, it is once again, speculation. I'm simply looking at it for what it looks like to me...just a bunch of generic cool traits that exist because they're cool and nothing more. 
 

If you feel like there's some deep meaning behind him using a sword, then you're free to do so. I'm not really looking any deeper than what I see because I simply have no interest in the character and what they're selling me.

3 minutes ago, Crazy_Diamond said:

Yeah. You even bolded and enlarged it.

Commenting on a lack of context is not the same as wanting it to exist. It's less wanting a reason as to why Infinite uses a sword, and more simply commenting on the fact that he's using one to begin with despite all of the other things surrounding him.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

2 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Unless all of this is revealed in game, it is once again, speculation. I'm simply looking at it for what it looks like to me...just a bunch of generic cool traits that exist because they're cool and nothing more. 
 

If you feel like there's some deep meaning behind him using a sword, then you're free to do so. I'm not really looking any deeper than what I see because I simply have no interest in the character and what they're selling me.

So don't judge the character then?

[Crazy_Diamond]

6 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Unless all of this is revealed in game, it is once again, speculation. I'm simply looking at it for what it looks like to me...just a bunch of generic cool traits that exist because they're cool and nothing more. 
 

If you feel like there's some deep meaning behind him using a sword, then you're free to do so. I'm not really looking any deeper than what I see because I simply have no interest in the character and what they're selling me.

OK, but that is your pejorative. You don't need to look any deeper, and that is fine. But you are saying that because you aren't bothering to think past a surface level about this, that it is an inherently surface level trait. I don't even need to point out how that is wrong. When we say there might be some meaning to the sword, that is speculation, yes. But what you don't realize is by saying that there is no reason for Infinite have ever used a sword, that is also speculation, and one that has even less backing than our speculation. Our speculation is at least backed by the fact that Infinite's lyrics suggest that he has fought in conflicts before. Your speculation is backed by nothing.

[Dr. Mechano]

I feel like we're getting sidetracked.

My beef with Infinite is more that he'll likely end up hijacking the story. As many have speculated, this will likely be a story about the OC and Infinite, with Sonic, Eggman, and the other established characters of the canon just being dragged along for the ride to facilitate their arc being completed. And that's the thing that irritates me, that so much focus is being poured into these one-time incidental characters instead of, y'know, the actual Sonic cast.

Sure, plenty of side characters are back, but as glorified radio chatter spouting interchangeable exposition during the stages. In the end, this looks to be a story that's more about no-name and Infinite than it is about Sonic, and I'm wholly uninterested in that.

 

[The Deleter]

3 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Unless all of this is revealed in game, it is once again, speculation. I'm simply looking at it for what it looks like to me...just a bunch of generic cool traits that exist because they're cool and nothing more. 
 

If you feel like there's some deep meaning behind him using a sword, then you're free to do so. I'm not really looking any deeper than what I see because I simply have no interest in the character and what they're selling me.

Commenting on a lack of context is not the same as wanting it to exist. It's less wanting a reason as to why Infinite uses a sword, and more simply commenting on the fact that he's using one to begin with despite all of the other things surrounding him.

So is your conclusion, though. We don't see the Ruby on Infinite in the art. We don't see him in his typical Infinite attire. We have never seen a sword or any indication of it's existance in the game itself, after his Ruby persona, and we don't even see it in the concept art for his boss battle.

At least our speculation is based off of all the facts and context we know so far. You're just sticking to your guns despite whatever context around the facts we know, and disregarding everything else for the sake of railing against it, now. At least attempt to give solid reasons why we should consider your take on the situation as reasonable, if you want to argue that our takes are lesser due to their speculative nature, while you attempt the same on your own terms. :L

[Gabz Girl]

Kuzu mentioned something that gave me thought...I really hope they will actually explain his backstory and not keep it vague or up to our imagination.

Remember when the Deadly Six were revealed in SLW, we thought an explanation would be given for why they exist too, but we didn’t get anything. Mind you, Forces seems to focus a lot more on story so I could be wrong but, eh. I hope it doesn’t happen.

[The Deleter]

The main thing I'm concerned about is that they'll section off Infinite's backstory into Shadow's DLC or the comics and be done with it. I don't expect them to leave it unexplained, especially with how they've been hyping it up, but to relegate something as potentially important as the villain's main motivations to a side story while the rest of the game ignores him once he's defeated would be... really lame, tbh.

[StaticMania]

His backstory should be as tragic as that mask on his face...something worth less than Shadow the Hedgehog's Maria. This is definitely the time to give interest to the new character.

[Badnik Mechanic]

8 hours ago, Ultimate Victory 64 said:

Oh dear christ ITS A SWORD. What the hell is there to complain about?

Look at that list of super powers that one character has.

It was stupidly long before.

Now add sword onto it.

Lol.

[Prince Weiss]

not only that but might as well toss in a super form am i right?

4 hours ago, Super Mechanio said:

I feel like we're getting sidetracked.

My beef with Infinite is more that he'll likely end up hijacking the story. As many have speculated, this will likely be a story about the OC and Infinite, with Sonic, Eggman, and the other established characters of the canon just being dragged along for the ride to facilitate their arc being completed. And that's the thing that irritates me, that so much focus is being poured into these one-time incidental characters instead of, y'know, the actual Sonic cast.

Sure, plenty of side characters are back, but as glorified radio chatter spouting interchangeable exposition during the stages. In the end, this looks to be a story that's more about no-name and Infinite than it is about Sonic, and I'm wholly uninterested in that.

 

sort of like dragon ball xenoverse

[StaticMania]

7 minutes ago, SupremeKing Judai said:

not only that but might as well toss in a super form am i right?

That's inevitable until proven untrue, because unless it was an Eggman Mecha...every new villain had a super form/extra form.

[Prince Weiss]

exactly

[Waveshocker Sigma]

I like that we apparently need to have context for a character using a weapon of any kind despite the fact that to this day, we still have absolutely no idea where the hell Amy's Hammer comes from, why, and how she can keep spawning more and more of them like they're fucking Keyblades. lmao

We don't know why a majority of characters can do some of the things they do outside of Tails, Cream, Charmy and Rouge flying for the most obvious of reasons and Knuckles gliding which...actually still doesn't have a definitive answer. I'm not gonna lose any sleep over Infinite's sword when I don't even know how and why Espio is a ninja since I honestly don't care about the reason or context.

Just like I don't care about the "how and why" behind Sonic's own super speed. It looks cool and does cool shit, so who cares? I just enjoy it for what it is rather than what I want it to be or think it should be. Not enjoying it for what it is works the same way and is fine as well.

[Indigo Rush]

The difference is that Amy's hammer is her thing. Infinite having a sword is just another thing to add to his list of things that make him ridiculously overpowered like any other second rate fan character. Dude already has whatever the Phantom Ruby can do and that cube thing. Why does he need a sword as well?

[JosepHenry]

1 minute ago, Indigo Rush said:

The difference is that Amy's hammer is her thing. Infinite having a sword is just another thing to add to his list of things that make him ridiculously overpowered like any other second rate fan character. Dude already has whatever the Phantom Ruby can do and that cube thing. Why does he need a sword as well?

Have you thought that this sword could be his BEFORE he got the powers? explained by Iizuka himself that Infinite wasn't evil before, and he didn't had powers. He already had the sword.

[DiamondX]

7 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

The difference is that Amy's hammer is her thing. Infinite having a sword is just another thing to add to his list of things that make him ridiculously overpowered like any other second rate fan character. Dude already has whatever the Phantom Ruby can do and that cube thing. Why does he need a sword as well?

The sword is definelty before he gets the Ruby. You can see it in Eggman's hand and also Infinite is unmasked.

 

Maybe Eggman tries to force Infinite to join him but he refuses and fights back?

[Waveshocker Sigma]

On 10/14/2017 at 8:23 AM, Indigo Rush said:

The difference is that Amy's hammer is her thing. Infinite having a sword is just another thing to add to his list of things that make him ridiculously overpowered like any other second rate fan character. Dude already has whatever the Phantom Ruby can do and that cube thing. Why does he need a sword as well?

Yes, it's her "thing" but we don't know "why" it's her thing. Same for her Tarot Card thing that hardly ever gets brought up. Also like how Vector can spit fire and can spit out explosive bubblegum at any time, regardless of whether he's actually chewing any or not, and then use it as a balloon right after as well. Or how Chaos powers work for Sonic in general. I mean specifically Sonic on that.

"Thing" or not, it's not explained and it doesn't need to be. It's not important.

Besides, considering that Iizuka himself said that Infinite used to be a normal civilian like the Avatar, that means he didn't have powers like Sonic and the gang before. How do you fight against things like Eggman's robots and all the other junk in Sonic's world when you're just a normal dude with no powers? You either train to get super strong somehow or you use a weapon. A very sharp sword usually being one of the best options in fiction. If he still has that sword later after being corrupted into Infinite, then it's a carry-over from his past life. Nothing wrong with it.

And honestly, why not have a sword as well? No logical reason to stick to only the awesome power of glowing geometry when you can also have a sword to fall back on for an additional edge in close-quarters combat should all else fail.

Sorry, but you and I simply can't agree on the whole "powers list" thing you keep constantly bringing up as I have absolutely no issue with it and just find it silly.

Especially considering that his powers list is still FAR smaller than the full collective list of Sonic's, Shadow's, Knuckles' and Silver's (especially) if we look at absolutely every game they're in. And that's only to name a few.

So, agree to disagree.