Sonic Forces: Infinite Unmasked (SPOILERS/Speculation)

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

7 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Now we're just grasping at straws. It's a sword guys...

It's almost as sad as trying to use achievements as a legitimate argument against Forces. 

Nevertheless  a sign that jokes  are run dry yet again with Forces and the game itself isn't really supporting such the content of ire to even deserve such the insufferable repetition of contempt  and detrimental cynicism that tends to pollute the discussion from time to time. 

[Razule]

15 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Even if he was from that time period and that area (which, again, there's absolutely zero evidence for in the first place) I don't see how that would help him recruit Chaos; if they had any contact at all back then it would be in the form of Chaos going "hey stay the fuck away from me and my family", because that's Chaos' entire deal.

What if Infinite is a chao, but instead of being a water mutant like Chaos, he's an animal mutant?

What if.. they're brothers?

[Joellui]

3 minutes ago, Razule said:

What if Infinite is a chao, but instead of being a water mutant like Chaos, he's an animal mutant?

Where are you getting these ideas from? And if it was even the slightest bit possible, what does that have to do with him having a sword?

[JosepHenry]

Iizuka himself told us that Infinite wasn't born from mutation, that he was a normal guy.

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

14 minutes ago, Razule said:

What if Infinite is a chao, but instead of being a water mutant like Chaos, he's an animal mutant?

What if.. they're brothers?

"He was not always evil, but unlike Chaos, Infinite was not born by mutation, he’s animal character like Sonic’s team. The reason why he becomes powerful and why he becomes evil… you’ll get your answer in Shadow’s free DLC."

Source: http://sonicunited.org/2017/10/05/sonic-forces-interview-from-the-latest-famitsu-issue-who-is-infinite/

He's been very clearly and explicitly confirmed to NOT be like Chaos, NOT be a chao (since he's an animal character), and NOT be a mutant.

[The Deleter]

Alright hold up

Even if something is trying to be "generically cool for the sake of it", at least it has style points going for appeal in some way

Mario Odyssey may be more consistant in it's aesthetic, which is a mish mash of everything unabashadly, but... how on earth does that give it any substance????
 

In fact, I'm pretty sure it's because it has so little substance that I, personally, am not feeling the love for the capture mechanic. You capture a T-Rex. Neat. And? Am I going to get a full game built around it like typical Mario powerups devoted to it's controls, or one or two obstacle courses merely to justify it's existence in the first place? Why is it a T-Rex in a city or a forest factory? Do I get to do or see the things I consider dinosaurs cool for, like roaming in packs, hunting down other dinosaurs and fighting rivals in colossal fights in prehistoric wonder? Probably not. Then what's the point? Just because it's a T-rex? Just because it's a tree? Just because it's a sphinx in the middle of a forest for no reason? It's not even in the context I consider these elements "neat" for in the first place, so why should I feel like these examples are cool and worthwhile, especially in a Mario game?

At least with Sonic's "cool for the sake of it", you're grabbing on to helicopter landing gear Mission Impossible style as they fly from one part of a city to the next. They have the context of what makes a helicopter in an action movie cool down, so it's cool because of it. Not because it's a helicopter in the middle of nowhere for the sake of it, and not because "lol, Sonic doesn't fit with a realistic helicopter and action movie setpiece, does he?"

Even if Infinite has nothing dictating him using the sword but his own strange preferences in a modern world full of guns, that'll be his weapon, and he'll use it unironically. And you know what? Even that is cool in it's own way. It doesn't go as far as I'd want without the warrior angle, but it's still an element that tries to be unabashadly appealing in style in some way, and it'll keep it's stylistic appeal because of that. And even that simple preference of him using it, still is a better explanation for why Mario, the most cartoony, abstract, and specifically styled platformer series of them all, suddenly has a photorealistic Tyranasaurous Rex in his canon universe, in all honesty...

[Razule]

10 minutes ago, Monkey Destruction Switch said:

"He was not always evil, but unlike Chaos, Infinite was not born by mutation, he’s animal character like Sonic’s team. The reason why he becomes powerful and why he becomes evil… you’ll get your answer in Shadow’s free DLC."

Source: http://sonicunited.org/2017/10/05/sonic-forces-interview-from-the-latest-famitsu-issue-who-is-infinite/

Thus, he's been confirmed to NOT be a chao and NOT be a mutant.

Damn that's super specific

[Wraith]

Yeah I wasn't going to say anything but the Mario comparison doesn't hold much water. Mario and Sonic are different tonally. Even in the classic days they were different tonally. People like them for different reasons. 

Sonic does run off of "Rule of Cool" to an extent, so I could see him or other characters picking up a Sword as easy as they seem to always conveniently run into a snowboard when it's time for an avalanche chase. Maybe you could think more about how it'd add to movement instead. Let him stab it into the ground or wall and use that momentum he just built up for something.

The point is it's not that big of a fucking deal that someone holds a sword. The concept of a sword is ultimately not the problem. Far from it

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Man, I don't know about you guys, but that sword? Totally screams Edgelord to me. I'm sure if Nintendo gave Link a voice, he'd be screaming profanities and talking about killing Ganon all day long. 

I can't believe we're talking about what is at best a weapon and at worst, a prop and some are using it as a reason to shit on Forces, like seriously people? Infinite's identity is potentially revealed and the point of anger is a fucking sword?

Man, Smash Bros must be the most edgy fighting game out there with the number of sword-welders in it.

And like yeah, state that maybe Infinite does or doesn't have a reason for the sword, but can we at least wait until the game comes out so we can actively see if he uses it as a weapon instead of assuming? 

[The Deleter]

Just now, Josh said:

Yeah I wasn't going to say anything but the Mario comparison doesn't hold much water. Mario and Sonic are different tonally. Even in the classic days they were different tonally. People like them for different reasons. 

Sonic does run off of "Rule of Cool" to an extent, so I could see him or other characters picking up a Sword as easy as they seem to always conveniently run into a snowboard when it's time for an avalanche chase. Maybe you could think more about how it'd add to movement instead. Let him stab it into the ground or wall and use that momentum he just built up for something.

The point is it's not that big of a fucking deal that someone holds a sword. The concept of a sword is ultimately not the problem. Far from it

That's actually a mechanic in Black Knight once you unlock it. Under normal conditions you'd wiggle the wiimote to gradually pick your way up the side of a mountain, but if you hit that same wall with an ability later unlocked in the game (dunno which one) you'll rapidly spin up the side of the wall clearing it entirely, but only if you were running fast enough

(kinda janky and small example, but it's the best footage I could find of the move atm)

The game had good ideas, you guys. You just had to play the game way longer than necessary to find them :S

[Kuzu]

And now this is the part when people make 

9 minutes ago, Ryannumber1Scarer said:

Man, I don't know about you guys, but that sword? Totally screams Edgelord to me. I'm sure if Nintendo gave Link a voice, he'd be screaming profanities and talking about killing Ganon all day long. 

I can't believe we're talking about what is at best a weapon and at worst, a prop and some are using it as a reason to shit on Forces, like seriously people? Infinite's identity is potentially revealed and the point of anger is a fucking sword?

Man, Smash Bros must be the most edgy fighting game out there with the number of sword-welders in it.

And like yeah, state that maybe Infinite does or doesn't have a reason for the sword, but can we at least wait until the game comes out so we can actively see if he uses it as a weapon instead of assuming? 

That's nice. It's also not the point being made here. Nobody has a problem with the fucking sword, it's the context (or lack therof) of it existing.

Like come on with this. Link is a literal knight, of course he's going to be using a sword. 

What reason does Infinite have to use one? Not about him or his design says "I use a sword". So I'm left wondering why does it exist?

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

1 minute ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

That's nice. It's also not the point being made here. Nobody has a problem with the fucking sword, it's the context (or lack therof) of it existing.,

 To get so easily riled over that too is overdoing it. Especially when it's from ripped concept art so if course there'd be a lack of content. Sheesh. 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Just now, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

And now this is the part when people make 

That's nice. It's also not the point being made here. Nobody has a problem with the fucking sword, it's the context (or lack therof) of it existing.,

Yeah, maybe we should, I don't know, wait until the actual game releases so we can get context? Because otherwise people are still arguing over something that has absolutely 100% no foundation either fucking way because unless you're Doc Brown and have a Delorean Time Machine hidden from the rest of us, no one here has any idea of context or if there is any.

It's like trying to argue that Sonic getting his ass kicked in Forces is terrible because we have no context despite the fact the story of the game isn't released yet so we don't know if there's context or not. All we have is a story trailer where Infinite doesn't fight much so we can't use them as accurate sources. So once again, it all comes down to a worthless conversation over a ripped piece of concept art that might only be there to make covers look cool (Or are we also going to start giving Mega Man shit because he and Bad Box Art Mega Man haven't battled in Archie MM?). 

[Dr. Mechano]

2 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Cala Maria said:

 To get so easily riled over that too is overdoing it. Especially when it's from ripped concept art so if course there'd be a lack of content. Sheesh. 

Saying a thing looks dumb isn't the same thing as being "riled up."

Let's not try to assume the emotional states of our opponents. One can quite calmly dislike something.

[Kuzu]

6 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Cala Maria said:

 To get so easily riled over that too is overdoing it. Especially when it's from ripped concept art so if course there'd be a lack of content. Sheesh. 

Once again, you are missing the point. So allow me to spell it out.

 

Nobody has a problem with the sword by itself.

I'll say it again so people can read it.

NOBODY HAS A PROBLEM WITH THE SWORD FOR SIMPLY EXISTING.

THE "PROBLEM" IS MOSTLY HOW IT EXISTS, BUT THERE IS SEEMINGLY NO CONTEXTUAL REASON FOR IT.

 

I know it's a concept art, I am very much aware of it. That's not what I'm criticizing though. I'm simply sitting here wondering "Why does Infinite have or need a sword when he has abilities that do not call for such a design choice" It's the equivalent to why Shadow would be using a Gun or a motorcycle when he has no need for either.

 

And even then, I'm nowhere near as riled up as you seem to think I am. Most of this is me simply wondering why are they going with such ridiculous design choices than any outrage on my part.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

8 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Nobody has a problem with the sword by itself

Which I acknowledged when I quoted you. 

The embarrassing factor is that even an assumptive argument circumventing the obviously currently vague context of that sword which we know so little about grew out to such an embarassing display is the problem. 

8 minutes ago, Super Mechanio said:

Saying a thing looks dumb isn't the same thing as being "riled up."

 Not the one I'm even referring to. Sheesh. I abhor assumptive reasoning like that. 

Leave me out of that. 

[Crazy_Diamond]

6 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

And now this is the part when people make 

That's nice. It's also not the point being made here. Nobody has a problem with the fucking sword, it's the context (or lack therof) of it existing.

Like come on with this. Link is a literal knight, of course he's going to be using a sword. 

What reason does Infinite have to use one? Not about him or his design says "I use a sword". So I'm left wondering why does it exist?

Of course there is a lack of context to Infinite's sword. It was revealed unofficially by an half-complete sketch of a comic book cover. You are basically demanding that we be given context on something that was not even supposed to be shown yet in the first place. You are presuming there is no reason for Infinite to use a sword because you haven't been given a reason, but that is illogical. Like for instance, you said that it would make sense for a literal knight to use a sword. What if Infinite was a knight? That would justify it right? We don't know the reason he has it, so saying there is no justification is jumping the gun.

[Ratcicle King]

1 minute ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Once again, you are missing the point. So allow me to spell it out.

 

Nobody has a problem with the sword by itself.

I'll say it again so people can read it.

NOBODY HAS A PROBLEM WITH THE SWORD FOR SIMPLY EXISTING.

THE "PROBLEM" IS MOSTLY HOW IT EXISTS, BUT THERE IS SEEMINGLY NO CONTEXTUAL REASON FOR IT.

 

I know it's a concept art, I am very much aware of it. That's not what I'm criticizing though. I'm simply sitting here wondering "Why does Infinite have or need a sword when he has abilities that do not call for such a design choice" It's the equivalent to why Shadow would be using a Gun or a motorcycle when he has no need for either.

Maybe we should wait for context then?

I mean, he has normal eyes, his scar seems small and Eggman is holding the Phantom Ruby instead of it being shoved on his chest, so maybe we're seeing Infinite BEFORE he becomes so op he doesn't need a sword?

I could be wrong, yes, but once again, it's a two way argument, I can be wrong and that could be Infinite with his powers already, but I also can be right, and we won't know until the comic comes out, so in a sense, both of us are jumping the gun with assumptions.

[Kuzu]

9 minutes ago, Ryannumber1Scarer said:

Yeah, maybe we should, I don't know, wait until the actual game releases so we can get context? Because otherwise people are still arguing over something that has absolutely 100% no foundation either fucking way because unless you're Doc Brown and have a Delorean Time Machine hidden from the rest of us, no one here has any idea of context or if there is any.

It's like trying to argue that Sonic getting his ass kicked in Forces is terrible because we have no context despite the fact the story of the game isn't released yet so we don't know if there's context or not. All we have is a story trailer where Infinite doesn't fight much so we can't use them as accurate sources. So once again, it all comes down to a worthless conversation over a ripped piece of concept art that might only be there to make covers look cool (Or are we also going to start giving Mega Man shit because he and Bad Box Art Mega Man haven't battled in Archie MM?). 

So basically the same old "WAIT AND SEE" excuse that gets used to deflect any sort of criticism. Cool.

2 minutes ago, Ratcicle King said:

Maybe we should wait for context then?

I mean, he has normal eyes, his scar seems small and Eggman is holding the Phantom Ruby instead of it being shoved on his chest, so maybe we're seeing Infinite BEFORE he becomes so op he doesn't need a sword?

I could be wrong, yes, but once again, it's a two way argument, I can be wrong and that could be Infinite with his powers already, but I also can be right, and we won't know until the comic comes out, so in a sense, both of us are jumping the gun with assumptions.

Do I really need to wait and see to express how I feel about this now....can we please stop using this as a crutch.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

15 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I know it's a concept art, I am very much aware of it. That's not what I'm criticizing though. I'm simply sitting here wondering "Why does Infinite have or need a sword when he has abilities that do not call for such a design choice" It's the equivalent to why Shadow would be using a Gun or a motorcycle when he has no need for either.

Considering it's coming from concept art of a comic cover, which are notorious for adding details to try draw attention, it's still not something you should be picking at much, because it's easy to assume the artist of the cover added it to just make Infinite look cool. It's not the first occurrence of a cover doing such:

 For example: 

Mega Man does not having weird glowing eyes, he doesn't have massive wires sticking out of his back, he isn't this battle damaged, and it isn't that huge a race, but it makes for an interesting cover that draws your eye and concludes one of the bigger arcs of the series.

Or better yet, how about Worlds Collide with the Chaos Devil? Why did Wily and Eggman stick a devil eye into Chaos? Better yet, how the fuck did they free Chaos in the first place? No context, but hey that's a cool concept for the story init? That draws readers by combining two of the most notorious enemies in both series, doesn't it?

Or better yet - 

10 minutes ago, Ratcicle King said:

Maybe we should wait for context then?

I mean, he has normal eyes, his scar seems small and Eggman is holding the Phantom Ruby instead of it being shoved on his chest, so maybe we're seeing Infinite BEFORE he becomes so op he doesn't need a sword?

I could be wrong, yes, but once again, it's a two way argument, I can be wrong and that could be Infinite with his powers already, but I also can be right, and we won't know until the comic comes out, so in a sense, both of us are jumping the gun with assumptions.

This, how about we wait for context instead of assuming from a half-finished and concepted comic cover, which is hardly a reliable source to begin with. 

8 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

So basically the same old "WAIT AND SEE" excuse that gets used to deflect any sort of criticism. Cool.

huh well its almost like when you make a stink out of demanding context for your problem, you have to wait til context becomes available because surprisingly sega isn't going to release their entire story mode of the game one month beforehand to provide you with said context.

Like seriously? What the fuck do you expect when your argument is "we don't have any context for this", when it's never been officially shown or announced? Obviously you have to wait til they release the context either through a screenshot, trailer, bio, or the game's story itself. 

[Kuzu]

5 minutes ago, Crazy_Diamond said:

Of course there is a lack of context to Infinite's sword. It was revealed unofficially by an half-complete sketch of a comic book cover. You are basically demanding that we be given context on something that was not even supposed to be shown yet in the first place. You are presuming there is no reason for Infinite to use a sword because you haven't been given a reason, but that is illogical. Like for instance, you said that it would make sense for a literal knight to use a sword. What if Infinite was a knight? That would justify it right? We don't know the reason he has it, so saying there is no justification is jumping the gun.

I'm presuming he has no reason to use a sword because nothing we know about him suggests he needs one. So I'm left assuming it's just another "cool" thing thrown in on top of every other "cool" thing with this character.

[Dr. Mechano]

5 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Cala Maria said:

Not the one I'm even referring to. Sheesh. I abhor assumptive reasoning like that. 

Leave me out of that. 

I know you were responding to someone other than me. But I don't think he was riled up either. 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Just now, Super Mechanio said:

I know you were responding to someone other than me. But I don't think he was riled up either. 

I fear this is a bout of you taking the term a bit too close to heart. Which tends to be one of many, a common problem with these forum discusions lately, sadly. 

[Ratcicle King]

1 minute ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Do I really need to wait and see to express how I feel about this now....can we please stop using this as a crutch.

Never said you have to wait and see to express how you feel.

But you ARE discussing about lack of context on something that's on sketch phase. I don't know how to give you a satisfying answer considering the context you want would actually need for you to actually wait and see.

I mean, the complain here is literally ''this thing that isn't out yet and is just a sketch doesn't give me enough context for something I shouldn't even know yet because it's an unplanned leak''. 

[Crazy_Diamond]

8 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

So basically the same old "WAIT AND SEE" excuse that gets used to deflect any sort of criticism. Cool.

Do I really need to wait and see to express how I feel about this now....can we please stop using this as a crutch.

OK, no. You are saying that there is no contextual reason why Infinite has a sword. People replied by saying we have no contextual reason because we only saw it in an unfinished drawing. How is that an excuse? It's just a fact. You really expected a contextual reason right now?

5 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

I'm presuming he has no reason to use a sword because nothing we know about him suggests he needs one. So I'm left assuming it's just another "cool" thing thrown in on top of every other "cool" thing with this character.

Remember that Infinite doesn't have his armor in that image. It is very likely that this is before he got any of his powers. Thus, using a sword for self defense makes logical sense. Nothing we know about him suggests he needs one because we know nothing about his past. All we know is that he is a person like Sonic and co., and that the reason why he becomes powerful and why he becomes evil will be revealed in the Shadow DLC.