Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[Dr. Detective]

I'm still not convinced 3 issues is going to be enough to wrap this up. I had forgotten about the Zombified friends too. 

[Wraith]

The process of curing everyone can take place over a couple of pages once they figure out how to do it. I actually think 3 issues is enough for it to work since the goal is clear cut and simple.

[SBR2]

37 minutes ago, thumbs13 said:

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Wait, what was the point of the teaser last issue with all the Zombotted friends if we never see them again?

 

I mean...it's only part 1.

[DabigRG]

Okay, so gathering some thoughts on the issue here:

• You know that thing people sometimes complain about with story arcs/battles ultimately feeling crunched or rushed? I was very much feeling that throughout most of the encounters here.
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  • The little moment between the KC duo was nice.
  • "You just had to be a One-Note Jerk," said to the wolverine of Eggman robots. In a story with the Deadly Six, oddly enough.
  • Sonic looks oddly fiendish during his talk with Eggman. Interesting that his constant fight off may have influenced the mutation.
  • Zavok seemed more hotheaded here than he should be, which the new artist may have accentuated a bit; Orbot also looked weird despite Cubot not. Also not exactly feeling him being unfamiliar with Angel Island, but I'll let it slide.
  • Neat to see them emphasize how Zavok's mouth is actually behind the weird knight's armor things, as well as him covering his tracks by figuring out where Eggman ran off to. Also, what was he hitting/breaking in the second panel?
  • Gonna admit that I thought Rouge meant Zavok believed she was a part of the Faceship crew. Not an issue, just a misunderstanding on my part.
  • I'll probably respond more to others on this, but Cream jumping into the portal and especially Gemerl rushing after her with his is...not good, though I have my suspicion. Almost heard Vector's voice with Zeena, as an aside and almost thought was looking at Bernie behind her.
  • I couldn't help but smirk at them not being able to resist an "Ohm nom nom nom" during "Post-Lunch Pre-Dinner Snack," as well as the sheepish grins Tails and Amy gave. Again, not quite the way I thought it could go, but then it's Zomom so rule of funny.
  • Zor and Silver was sweet, but short; not sure what is happening with his powers, but it works either way. Also didn't consider that Zor would effectively be a tad older than him no matter how you you do the places.
  • Zazz having pit fights for his own amusement is great, as well as his Moon Mech once again mirroring his mood.
  • Funny how I thought Team Babylon vs Master Zik was the most random/unintuitive matchup and while it was indeed a cakewalk at first, it was actually the most well done of them, for better or worse.  It actually plays on how Zik kinda has a Comically Serious vibe to him at times(if the Emerald being on his huge forehead didn't already) while referencing his 3DS defeat animation and its nice how he is actually uses his own abilities first.  And Jet actually got to be kinda cool with his Bansho fan-things, with his raisin quip also being a little clever.
  • Zik's mouth when he shows up reminds me of some cartoon(s) I can't quite call. And its funny how he not only refers to some Zombots as phalanxes(which I wanna say is a reference to ...something), but also tore up most of his water tower for some reason. Also, I repeat: what was up with his eyes at the end?
  • Jet's raisin quip was a little clever.
  • Assuming the Zombot'd friends will show up later in the fights and/or as Zavok's personal vangard

   

   

On 3/3/2020 at 2:54 PM, Zulon Eredas said:

If she still had Cheese, Cream could easily KO Zeena

Honestly, if she could pull off a few connecting Spindashes, she'd probably be pretty good as well.

On 3/3/2020 at 8:39 PM, SBR2 said:

Sending some good vibes out to Ian. Apparently he's having some Respiratory issues that he's having trouble getting diagnosed. Hope he recovers soon.

https://www.twitter.com/IanFlynnBKC/status/1234524424306659329

Poor guy. Hope they figure it out or at least find something to alleviate it.

 

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I've got less problem on Zik and the extreme gears, as it was turned in a better way.

 

That was a foregone conclusion that was also a pleasant surprise..

On 3/4/2020 at 6:25 PM, Dr. Detective Mike said:

A part of me is a bit worried about how much time we've got left in this arc. I don't know if 4 issues is going to be enough to wrap all this up in a satisfactory manner and if it isn't, I can only hope it's one of Ian's less rushed endings. It's still a problem he has seeing as how the Battle for Angel Island and the Tangle and Whisper arcs played out. Not necessarily bad endings but very quick ones.

I am concerned as well, but we at least have two or three issues left and all but one of the fights have begun, which means much of them will be those battles.

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The situation seems to be a massive time crunch. They need the emeralds so that Sonic can use them to turn Super and use the Warp Topaz to get rid of the virus but they can't do that if he turns into a Zombot. A part of me wondered if Silver would be a viable candidate but then I remembered that they probably don't actually know if he can go Super since the only time he did was in Sonic 06 and that was eradicated from time. 

Yeah, it just hit me. I don't think ANY of the characters, including Silver, know that Silver can go super... huh...

Even then, Sonic definitely knows more about how to use the emeralds then he does either way. If they lose Sonic and they... somehow figure out that Silver is a viable candidate and they... somehow manage to get him to use the emeralds and the Warp Topaz correctly... then it might be a viable back-up plan...? Maybe? Then again, the way Starline was talking about the Warp Topaz, it was already a huge risk on its own but giving it to someone not as experienced with using the emeralds on top of that seems even more reckless and they're literally on their last legs. 

That is a very good observation I seldom ever consider.

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I love the anime battle set-ups we've gotten here. Zomom is dumb but not that dumb. It's almost a little too cartoonish to expect him to believe that Zavok asked Tails and Amy to get the emerald from him. This guy was able to correct Sonic on the number of words he used in Lost World, then smacked him over the head with a sandwich.

Being simple has it's perks, as Big can also attest.

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I like that Zazz was able to tell Espio was around by sniffing the air around him. Although if Zazz wants to enjoy some bloodsports, he could just have the "fuzzypunks" fight each other and then punish the loser by throwing them to the Zombots. There, I done fixed it for ya. Hahaha~!

Ooh, another keen eye, er, nose, Wild one!

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I'm extremely interested in seeing how Zor's weird powers are going to be utilized here. Apparently his bio said something about him using dark arts that even the other Zeti don't want anything to do with. Presumably it extends beyond making dark shadow clones and energy bolts. 

 

Oh definitely. 

I've personally been expecting 

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some degree of mental torture,  perhaps even illusions/conjurations of Silver and Whisper's insecurity/losses

since I saw this matchup on the alternative cover.

The fact that SEGA has certain notes regarding how the Deadly Six as well as Knuckles and Cream can be used could speak for this just as easily as against.

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It didn't surprise me that he could break out of Silver's psychokinesis. 

Okay, so that IS what happened? I couldn't really tell what was going on, but I do see that the aura around him became these fading rings between him and Silver. 

23 hours ago, bingboomer said:

wow. cream did a bad move there. and yeah, looking forward to a super form like supersonic of course. BUT what about hyper knuckles or tails having a super form? lets wait and c

Hyper Knuckles would be cool to see brought back in some form, even though it isn't exactly earned here. 

 

18 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

#26... a bit too much setup for me (wasn't last issue for that?).

Yep.

Admittedly, part of my disappointment with both issues came from the knowledge of the latter getting extra pages due to being a milestone making excited that it'd mostly be focused on character interactions(which it was, somewhat) as the calm before the storm of these issues.

Which issues have what cover(s), as a reminder?

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Other than that pretty okay issue

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Sonic banter with Eggman was decent, I'm surprised Flynn managed to squeeze any more argument for this discussion.

 

13 hours ago, Your Vest Friend said:

 

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Actually you know what? I haven't read the issue myself (because I'm not catching up until the zombot shit is over, it's so boring), but I have seen the conversation between Sonic and Metal Sonic and it's bullshit. 

-Omega didn't even have a choice in rebelling against Eggman really. He was abandoned as soon as he was made for we don't know how long. He didn't get a chance to act like an Eggman lackey. Sonic should know this by now.

-G-Merl didn't have a choice, he was flat out reprogrammed. Sonic definitely knows this.

Just shut up and admit you fucked up, Sonic.

 

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11 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

I think its ironic that with those moral complications and conversations that it ultimately comes off as looking childish and immature, and the actual " adult" answer is kind of bittersweet and sad and simple. The more i think on that back and fourth the more i like it less. the reprogramming thing is particularly poignant actually.

 

 

10 hours ago, Kuzu said:

 

 

Sonic's conversation with Eggman was...fine. I understand it's childish for Sonic to think that way, but Sonic is a simple person with a simple view on morality. The gist is that if Metal didn't willingly go back to Eggman, they wouldn't be in their current situation. Its not particularly complex, but it fits his character. And boy do I love Flynn's Eggman and his of psychological warefare, it's such a treat. 

 

Actually, I believe this sequence was alluded to in a previous Bumblekast, now that you mention it.

That said, I can't say I was really into it.

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I must admin that Flynn does formidable job with Zeti. They shallow, but Flynn embraced that. I always though they feel like demons/oni or rather "Deadly Sin kid edition" (I mean deadly six/sin, one letter. That had to be on purpose) . So yeah, they bunch of bullies, but dangerous and cruel ones, so don't underestimate them.

That was one of the theories for Lost World.

Also, them being based on Oni(or outright called Demons in at least a few Japanese things) is one of the only things we know about their conceptualization.

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One question though: is there any reason why Sonic isn't joining any team (other than this being convenient for the plot). I know he's weak, bu he needs to move anyway, might as well spin dash into Zeti.

 

I guess they also don't wanna infect them as well if they can avoid it.

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Babylon Rouges are the fight that most intrigues me. Everyone else will win by outsmarting the stupid Zeti (Silver/Whisper can just overpower Zor), but Emerald Zik seems way out of Jet's league, especially if he can just take their gear (I admit, I didn't saw that one coming).

Also, there's a good chance he'd finally end up their slave if anything went wrong.

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Some could argue they can't risk losing him, but whole operation is absolute risk, they send Gemerl in one of teams.
.... and if they send Gemerl, why not Metal Sonic as well? At very least Eggman would be less of a threat.

Good point.

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Ironically Zavok comes worst so far. All he does in this issue is roar angrily, unaware he's being duped by Orbot and Rouge and like I said, in #25 he got lucky. I just hope he'll do better next issue.

 

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Also, this is his first appearance where I genuinely disliked him, ok it's just 2 seconds but he seemed possessed by Zazz.

Demons possessing demons...what kinda inception six is this? But yeah, I didn't really appreciate that either.

It's [extra] weird because Zavok is the closest of any Zeti(barring maybe Zazz or better yet Zor, depending on how you look at them) to being a decently realized character. Mind, there's still the issue of it not being fully nailed down or consistent sometimes, but it's there. 

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Silver/Whisper are overkill, I think either of them could take down Zor. They heaviest hitters, sending them together wasn't best tactic.

In-universe, I guess they were sent because they're the only ones who can potentially cancel out his powers and/or take him out from a distance.

 

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And of course Rouge will inevitably fail to take down Zavok, so he can fight Sonic & Knuckles on Angel Island (...wasn't that the last season finale?).  I just hope he'll be smart rather than lucky like in #25.

 

14 hours ago, Jack at the Cinema said:

If we look at the cover of this very issue (and #29), Metal will definitely go into action, one way or another. Yeah, things are looking waaay too quite for Rouge there, don't underestimate Zavok.

.

8 hours ago, Kuzu said:

I feel like that was deliberate just so Ian can have Knuckles team up with Sonic to fight Zavok when he inevitably shows up at Angel Island. 

 

8 hours ago, StaticMania said:

Apparently a Main Character & Knuckles tag-team against Zavok is gonna be special?

Hmm.

I'm only slightly curious.

 

5 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Yeah, the cracks are there in the folly of the plan too. I understand that Knuckles, when written by Ian, is always going to put his duty to protect the Master Emerald and his island at the forefront but I think Knuckles probably could have at least tried to suggest an amendment to the plan that saw someone he trusted staying behind on the island. 

Although, it's interesting that if the plan is to have Sonic and Knuckles fight Zavok, Issue 29 shows Sonic, Silver, and presumably Metal Sonic rushing into battle instead. 

I dunno. I'm thinking it might have just been an oversight. I can look past it though because, honestly, the drama of having Cream trying to survive a mind-controlled Germel while surrounded by Zeena and her horde of Zombots sounds way cooler... but yeah. Still probably a flub. 

 

.

Yeah, probably in line with the odds. 

Of course, I wouldn't mind if it was just Knuckles for a least a bit, possibly with Rouge involved if she's still herself by then. Especially if the latest cover is an indication.

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The rest of the Zeti are great! They don't seem like a joke here, in fact they don't make jokes anymore but rather dark one liners, especially Zazz's. With a bit more of interesting basis they could come off as charming, even.

That was always the general idea of their inclusion/introduction in Lost World: to be characters that could be funny as well as perilous.

 

 

[Dr. Detective]

4 hours ago, Wraith said:

The process of curing everyone can take place over a couple of pages once they figure out how to do it. I actually think 3 issues is enough for it to work since the goal is clear cut and simple.

I'm not worried about devoting time to curing everyone. I'm just worried about whether or not the fights and confrontations with everyone will be paced well. There was a lot more left that I forgot to consider. It sounds doable. I'm just becoming more curious as to how and hoping it isn't because things got sped up. 

 

[DabigRG]

10 hours ago, Bowbowis said:

I'll be damned, Ian actually made the Deadly Six tolerable. I've compare Mephiles before to the shark in Jaws, it's not exactly the most compelling villain on its own, but it creates interesting situations for our heroes, which is where the focus is (incidentally, most zombie fiction uses the same idea). Ian seems to be taking the Deadly Six more along that route, treating them more like plot devices who show up to cause trouble when rather than laboring under the delusion that they are engaging characters in their own right. Contrast Lost World, which dedicated a not insignificant amount of screen-time to them standing around in a black void acting one-note. Which would be like if Jaws dedicated several minutes of footage to the shark just swimming around.

It also helps that the comic's art-style glosses over a lot of the more out-of-place elements of Deadly Six's designs, like their plasticky textures, flat eyes, and over-exaggerated animations.

Interesting viewpoint.

10 hours ago, Bowbowis said:

It also seems willing to tweak the designs to look better in general, such as actually making Zavok look muscular (especially his arms) instead of... vaguely muscular shaped.

It's a subtle change, but its definitely an improvement over how he looks in the games.

It's funny because the catch there is that I suspect the Zeti were supposed to adhere closer to the vague mentality of Sonic character design--especially per the Classics and maybe the Chao--more than the previous alternate villains have.

Ergo, Zavok and Vector both looking vaguely muscular without being ripped like Tundra or especially Augustus. 

That said, some stylizing by artist interpretation can indeed look pretty good or at least impactful, as Zavok looks there and Eggman generally looks under Ms. Stanley. 

 

9 hours ago, SkullPirateMike said:

Was he, though? We all kind of assumed Tails reprogrammed him, but thinking about it... that's never actually been said anywhere. there's no dialogue in the game, and in the flashback when he first appears in the comics, Cream just says they 'fixed' him. It's possible the situation with Gemerl was actually identical to the situation with Metal - that they just fixed him up and gave him a choice... and he chose differently.

I always took it as him getting him working again while Cream supervises to give notes of how he/Emerl used to be before Eggman made him a pure evolving weapon, which gave him the true chance to live a peaceful life.

So you can go either way.

9 hours ago, Kuzu said:

I really liked Sonic laying out the battle plans; he can be thoughtful when he has to slowdown for a bit.

The fact that he tangled with each of those jokers helps.

9 hours ago, Kuzu said:

You know, while I understand the reasoning behind it, it is kind of annoying we're doing the whole "cream is too young to fight" plotline again. Fortunately, she told Gemerl to stuff where the sun don't shine. I know they said it was risky, but I still question the logic of sending Gemerl when they could have left him on the Island and have Knuckles go deal with Zeena.

Very true, as Knuckles could potentially oneshot Zeena if he isn't flustered by her being a chick.

 

5 hours ago, Fire-N-Space said:

I got my wish Zeena did win, but hearing all this talk about Ian doing a better job at writing the zeti then Sega is going over my head he'll give a character more screen time and gets praised for writing better then Sega to easily.

Admittedly, yeah a little.

But then, that's the perks of both simple space and progression as well as the boon of a deeper or at least more dedicated idea.

5 hours ago, Fire-N-Space said:

 Sonic thinks Zeena is so narcissistic that she won't see a robot coming.

.He was probably banking on Gemerl sneaking up on her and/or bunker bustin her into next week.

5 hours ago, Jack at the Cinema said:

I just can't shake off the feeling that they are all gonna die and the ones we see on the #29 cover are the only safe ones. They are being THAT dumb.

You know, when you put it like that....

[Shadowlax]

Can I talk about the pacing of this arc. Its bad, like really bad. Whilst we get near the end goal over a year in , like ... maybe more than half the books could be consolidated into less books. I don't know if its Ian's artistic choice, or other people wanting to stretch it out. But This ain't good, a lot of set up into very small bursts of pay off that didn't need that much set up. It doesn't help that the B morality plot isn't really interesting and kinda imploded. Leaving you to just deal with the bloat that is the main plot. I think this book would benefit from smaller stories that lead into bigger ones , rather than just one big one after another.

[DabigRG]

5 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Zeena hasn't won yet. I have my doubts that on a team with so many geniuses, they'd be so stupid to send Gemerl after a Zeti if they can take control of them (Eggman especially, given he did the exact same thing, he'd have to be really dumb to make it twice within two issues). I'm already guessing they've already got some kind of countermeasure on Gemerl (My guess being that Gemerl has managed to gain enough free will that he refuses to hurt Cream). Playing this straight is literally going to be such a massive contrivance that it would hurt.

That's sorta my thought as well, even if I kinda doubt they all agreed on or were aware of it.

5 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

I don't like complaining much about "insert character here had too much time to shine, this character should be here", because we get enough of that as is between Shadow and Amy.

Amy should totally be the one saying "Only cowards run."

4 hours ago, thumbs13 said:

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Wait, what was the point of the teaser last issue with all the Zombotted friends if we never see them again?

 

 

4 hours ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

I'm still not convinced 3 issues is going to be enough to wrap this up. I had forgotten about the Zombified friends too. 

Kinda talked about this aspect before I'm sure, but I'm now thinking they're a part of the endgame.

Which could be a couple of missed opportunities if so, but ah well.

4 hours ago, Wraith said:

The process of curing everyone can take place over a couple of pages once they figure out how to do it. I actually think 3 issues is enough for it to work since the goal is clear cut and simple.

Er...it can go either at this point, honestly.

10 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Can I talk about the pacing of this arc. Its bad, like really bad.

I think this book would benefit from smaller stories that lead into bigger ones , rather than just one big one after another.

I think a decent amount of us can agree with that.

[Red Hot Jack]

I agree that the pacing is really weird, like bad, we got transition & introduction, where is the bulk of the story? I'm waiting, I don't want them to reach the climax immediately though. I loved #23 for the confrontations, #24 was cool but it didn't feel like a season finale at all, I get that the arc was supposed to continue, but it actually evolved into something else. They should have went all out with the bigger issue #25, instead of making it a transition, I would have had 24 as a transition and set-up, instead of the same story, save village - friend gets infected - sad mood twist.

Although I can't say I agree for the morality part, it's my favorite and most interesting part of the book, anything that revolves around how Sonic, Shadow, Metal (and he's a robot!) and of course Eggman act.

[SkullPirateMike]

9 hours ago, DabigRG said:

I always took it as him getting him working again while Cream supervises to give notes of how he/Emerl used to be before Eggman made him a pure evolving weapon, which gave him the true chance to live a peaceful life.

So you can go either way.

Could be! The manual for the game is clear that Gemerl is a new robot based on Emerl's data, though, and not Emerl himself. I think it'd be a different situation if they were restoring him (and Sonic likely wouldn't have mentioned him in this context), but Gemerl was always an Eggman robot.

Gemerl is the character who has the most misinformation floating around about him in general, which is pretty interesting. Even after all these years there are still people who insist on calling him G-Merl, even though EVERY English source has always said Gemerl, just because an old Japanese strategy guide (which also called Cream 'Cleam') spelled it that way.

[DabigRG]

1 hour ago, SkullPirateMike said:

Could be! The manual for the game is clear that Gemerl is a new robot based on Emerl's data, though, and not Emerl himself. I think it'd be a different situation if they were restoring him (and Sonic likely wouldn't have mentioned him in this context), but Gemerl was always an Eggman robot.

Gemerl is the character who has the most misinformation floating around about him in general, which is pretty interesting. Even after all these years there are still people who insist on calling him G-Merl, even though EVERY English source has always said Gemerl, just because an old Japanese strategy guide (which also called Cream 'Cleam') spelled it that way.

I thought it was actually Gmel and Mr. Flynn decides Gemerl fit the precious stone name scheme better?

[SkullPirateMike]

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

I thought it was actually Gmel and Mr. Flynn decides Gemerl fit the precious stone name scheme better?

Every time it's ever been printed in an official English source it's been Gemerl. The comics, the History of Sonic book and that old sticker collection book all called him Gemerl (although the last one misprinted it and Emerl as Germerl and Ermerl). With the IDW comics especially, I doubt Sonic Team would be letting Ian call him Gemerl if it were wrong.

Edit: I just had a look and to this day most fan wikis are insisting G-merl is the correct one. Even though the only source for it is an old Japanese strategy guide, the same sources that gave us Cleam the Rabbit and Web the Swallow back in the same period. And every English publication has been united in calling him Gemerl. Someone's telling them to print that. It's wild.

[StaticMania]

6 hours ago, DabigRG said:

I thought it was actually Gmel...

M-L is Sonic X...

You're probably thinking of that...

G-Mel has never been used anywhere.

Or maybe this...it's really wrong.

[caitash]

Preview pages for issue 27:

 

Ah, that twinkly Tails face is something else XD

[Sonic Fan J]

I feel so sorry for Amy. She neither deserved that nor really has a way to deal with it in the moment.

[DabigRG]

42 minutes ago, caitash said:

Preview pages for issue 27:

 

 

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Ah, that twinkly Tails face is something else XD

 

 

Zomom's face, wtf. Guess he's still going Boom Boom.

Shoutout to this comment, btw

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@System9509: Amy's clearly never seen Big the Cat climb a ladder

 

[Kuzu]

They're kind of in an awkward position atm lol. Tails and Amy aren't strong enough to just take the Emerald by force, but Zomom is too stupid to actually focus on beating them.

 

If nothing else, this entire confrontation is amusing.

[DabigRG]

9 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

They're kind of in an awkward position atm lol. Tails and Amy aren't strong enough to just take the Emerald by force, but Zomom is too stupid to actually focus on beating them.

 

If nothing else, this entire confrontation is amusing.

That's probably the point, tbh.

Zomom, more than any other Zeti, is bumbling and nonthreatening normally, so his huge size means this goes from a cakewalk to a picnic.

[StaticMania]

I'm not sure what Amy thinks the Chewing extra hard thing can be compared to, but it's a pretty bad thing regardless.

It's just gonna be endless.

[HywelAtTheMoon]

5 hours ago, Kuzu said:

They're kind of in an awkward position atm lol. Tails and Amy aren't strong enough to just take the Emerald by force, but Zomom is too stupid to actually focus on beating them.

 

If nothing else, this entire confrontation is amusing.

It reminds me of the "shiny" joke that was pulled on Bean almost every time they fought him back in the Archie comics, and he would fall for it every time. 

[Fire-N-Space]

Amy's going to need a new hammer after this fight but I bet she can't poof one out of thin air like she did in Sonic X.

[Razule]

3 hours ago, StaticMania said:

I'm not sure what Amy thinks the Chewing extra hard thing can be compared to, but it's a pretty bad thing regardless.

It's just gonna be endless.

I think that means that Amy is wondering if Zomom is literally going to eat them.

[DabigRG]

2 hours ago, Fire-N-Space said:

Amy's going to need a new hammer after this fight but I bet she can't poof one out of thin air like she did in Sonic X.

Not gonna lie, I somehow missed this page.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

4 hours ago, HywelAtTheMoon said:

It reminds me of the "shiny" joke that was pulled on Bean almost every time they fought him back in the Archie comics, and he would fall for it every time. 

...

God I miss Bean from Archie. As far as beware the silly ones goes, Zomom has nothing on Bean there.

[StaticMania]

37 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

God I miss Bean from Archie. As far as beware the silly ones goes, Zomom has nothing on Bean there.

He hasn't done anything yet.