Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[Shadowlax]

Its probably neo metal sonic

I think the infnite cubes gave it away. 

If i had to make a prediction , I imagine he got the phantom ruby made eggman forget who he is, and is being eggman to some larger evil end

Could mephilies actually though, remember he can change form

[Kuzu]

3 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

But he did question himself...that's how ... he got to that point. 

But he did, and then decided to do the right thing. 

That's the plot. 

 

 

Thinking someone is a threat doesn't mean you go " I'mma killa ya " an don't listen to reason, shadow could just be keeping tabs on him. Rouge tells them that they are, and... that's all that needed to happen. To reference the end of forces, shadow didn't go nuts and just go crazy and go " Where's EGGMAN WE NEED TO CONFIRM A BODY " he was smiling and hanging out. Saw classic sonic off. I don't think shadow is that unreasonable and angry about this. I don't think him and eggman are best friends, but he would be reasonable enough to just keep tabs on him if someone asked. Because he's a guy who's can be pretty easily convinced to see the bigger picture and leave things alone. 

No need to concoct entire scenario that's literally 

" Haha shadow you are so dumb, I tricked you are such a baby I had to create an entire situation to baby you into a lesson you learned years go. Look how dumb you are, you accomplished nothing and walked off the screen angry you are so dumb" 

That's what happened. 

Look, I'm not gonna play "he said, she said" with you. The main point is that Shadow acting first and thinking later has ALWAYS been there and if it weren't, the entire plot of SA2 would have been resolved a lot sooner.

Yes, Shadow could just keep tabs on him, but then there would be no point in this issue existing. Character flaws breed conflict and conflict breeds interesting storylines. It would be boring as hell if Shadow just left, no questions asked. 

There's really nothing about his portrayal here that contradicts any of his established characterization, the language you've used to describe him makes me feel that you just don't like that he's not portrayed exactly how you want him to be.

 

 

 

[Marco9966]

I think the villain is Metal Sonic!! (Like in Sonic Heroes).

[Shadowlax]

Just now, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

 

Yes, Shadow could just keep tabs on him, but then there would be no point in this issue existing. 

Yeah, maybe they shouldn't write stories with shadow in em, if shadow can't act like shadow. If you can't fit him in the story you trying to tell, maybe don't fit em in story. 

I'm fine with that.

Just now, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

There's really nothing about his portrayal here that contradicts any of his established characterization, the language you've used to describe him makes me feel that you just don't like that he's not portrayed exactly how you want him to be.

Except when I referenced Sonic 06 which directly addressed your point and you ignored. You know, that game who's whole point is for him to actually do the greater good right thing. 

Or are you gonna ignore that again, heck shadow the hedgehog is also a good example, and that's referenced in this book

or are you gonna ignore that again

[DabigRG]

4 hours ago, Stephen Rodriguez said:

Well, it's unfortunate to see that this issue didn't do so well. Hopefully the next issue will be better.

It most certainly will be.

Cause honestly, I think this issue finally "topped" Issue 1.

4 hours ago, Marco9966 said:

Do you think that with more intense expressive art the story would do better??

I mean, issue 2 was the most well received issue of the bunch, and ABT's art is phenomenal. It made me feel emotions I didn't feel with the other issues.

The colors and style of ABT elevated and added weight to the story although not much happened in issue 2.

What do you think? Do you agree?

Eh, not really.

Good dramatic and expressive Art definitely makes things like this more enjoyable and memorable, but there kinda has to be some form plot, motivation, and tension for it to be complementing/enhancing in the first place. 

 

2 hours ago, RedFox99 said:

I mean she was the one to tip off the others about Mr. Tinker, which let sonic arrive in time to protect him from Shadow, but that's about it.

So, basically some minor wit and extra connecting tissue in an issue that's otherwise pretty lacking in either?

15 hours ago, Fire-N-Space said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I knew the mysterious big bad was going to be Eggman the moment he started to say how much Amy has grown at the end of issue 2 most bad guy wouldn't have taken notice and would have just said that Amy was the same as she always was.

 

That line would also require a significantly established/recurring villain to work in the first place.

[Kuzu]

13 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Yeah, maybe they shouldn't write stories with shadow in em, if shadow can't act like shadow. If you can't fit him in the story you trying to tell, maybe don't fit em in story. 

I'm fine with that.

Except when I referenced Sonic 06 which directly addressed your point and you ignored. You know, that game who's whole point is for him to actually do the greater good right thing. 

Or are you gonna ignore that again, heck shadow the hedgehog is also a good example, and that's referenced in this book

or are you gonna ignore that again

Your condescending attitude is really not helping me take you seriously that you aren't just upset your headcanon version of Shadow doesn't exist.

 

Now you can either drop it, or I can just go about my business and you can argue here all day for all I care.

[Shadowlax]

Also I would like to reiterate before I go further, I don't mind weird ass interpretations of the character. Heck, they just wanted a silly fight book, sure whatever it happens, make a character crazy for a fight.

Its like the fact that nothing happened, and nothing mattered and it only served to make shadow look really incompetent next to everyone else is my main issue. If you wanna try and justify that's shadow character and its fine. That's ok, if you like that's cool. I think my issue is I feel like everyone else got an intro to show their stuff and why they are valuable. Shadow just got angry and wasted everyone's time. That's the introduction to the character for this book , and its a pretty bad one.  The story kinda doesn't seem to matter and maybe it would be better of shadow and rouge made an appearance later in a story that could better serve their characters and even if they are in conflict with sonic, show what they are about and why they are valuable besides wasting time. And shitting on shadow, because... that's what rouge does with her spare time I guess? This issue is weird

2 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Your condescending attitude is really not helping me take you seriously that you aren't just upset your headcanon version of Shadow doesn't exist.

 

The head canon that is sonic 06? And shadows game, that is referenced in this book...

What?

2 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Now you can either drop it, or I can just go about my business and you can argue here all day for all I care.

You can't ignore the argument, and then go " haha I got you " and leave like you got the upper hand

Address the sonic 06 and shadow the hedgehog argument. 

Because if you don't, you have effectively just wasted my time. 

[DabigRG]

2 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Well, he apparently did here. Maybe he decided Eggman's more of a threat after seeing him take over the world. I'm not really sure what more there is to say about this.

Careful. You're leaning on semblances of proper motivation there.

2 hours ago, Marco9966 said:

How do you justify Shadow beating the shit outta Infinite and killing his whole squad?

Yeeeah...that's kind of a problem with having a character like Shadow in a series like this.

48 minutes ago, chaosjam said:

 

Ian commenting on the backlash of #6's final page.  Looks like there is more to the story than what we are seeing.

Honestly, the narration itself(as well the pacing with the previous page, unintentionally,) made that rather obvious.

So I guess it means it is an obscure/overlooked villain in control then.

 

[Marco9966]

7 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Also I would like to reiterate before I go further, I don't mind weird ass interpretations of the character. Heck, they just wanted a silly fight book, sure whatever it happens, make a character crazy for a fight.

Its like the fact that nothing happened, and nothing mattered and it only served to make shadow look really incompetent next to everyone else is my main issue. If you wanna try and justify that's shadow character and its fine. That's ok, if you like that's cool. I think my issue is I feel like everyone else got an intro to show their stuff and why they are valuable. Shadow just got angry and wasted everyone's time. That's the introduction to the character for this book , and its a pretty bad one.  The story kinda doesn't seem to matter and maybe it would be better of shadow and rouge made an appearance later in a story that could better serve their characters and even if they are in conflict with sonic, show what they are about and why they are valuable besides wasting time. And shitting on shadow, because... that's what rouge does with her spare time I guess? This issue is weird

It's only your point of view that Shadow looked incompetent. That's how you viewed the book.

Don't speak for all of us.

[Shadowlax]

Just now, Marco9966 said:

It's only your point of view that Shadow looked incompetent. That's how you viewed the book.

Don't speak for all of us.

I never did 

I literally said if you like its cool.

If you like that's cool. 

That's it. I'm glad you like it, that actually makes me happy. You got some joy out of it. 

That's it. I don't like and i'm a talking about it. I don't hate you or anything 

[Red Hot Jack]

41 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Also I went to check reddit and some other forums. 

They don't love it. They don't really hate it either. Pretty neutral, some like it some don't. Makes sense. Some people think its fine. That's cool. 

 

Sure, 

I don't think that negates criticisms of said actions. 

Reddit and Twitter users really liked it though, can't say for other forums because I don't visit. I don't think there is more to explain, considering the cover for issue 7 is kind of in line with the final reveal.

And there was no issue with Shadow in my opinion. 

[DabigRG]

41 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Also I went to check reddit and some other forums. 

They don't love it. They don't really hate it either. Pretty neutral, some like it some don't. Makes sense. Some people think its fine. That's cool. 

Yeah, that's the thing.

Aside from maybe the Amy and Knuckles issues(depending on where you look), the overall consesus for most issues just seems to be "Eh, it's okay."

 

[Shadowlax]

Just now, Drifting Jack said:

Reddit and Twitter users really liked it though, can't say for other forums because I don't visit. I don't think there is more to explain, considering the cover for issue 7 is kind of in line with the final reveal.

And there was no issue with Shadow in my opinion. 

I dunno, I just checked Reddit they seemed neutral some excited some not. Didn't check twitter maybe they loved it, they could have. That's ok

Also that's ok.

Just now, DabigRG said:

Yeah, that's the thing.

Aside from maybe the Amy and Knuckles issues(depending on where you look), the overall consesus for most issues just seems to be "Eh, it's okay."

 

Makes sense its the beginning of a series kinda slow and weird. 

I'm sure people will like it more and it will get better as they hit their stride 

[Marco9966]

5 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

I never did 

I literally said if you like its cool.

If you like that's cool. 

That's it. I'm glad you like it, that actually makes me happy. You got some joy out of it. 

That's it. I don't like and i'm a talking about it. I don't hate you or anything 

We're cool, but try to not look at it through the restricted lens of what exactly Shadow should be, like it's okay if he does a decision that doesnt sound like him it's what interesting characters are for.

And it's not like they all have to stop a timebomb I don't see why him "wasting their time" is such a big problem.

[Dash Speed]

I'm just gonna blame it on the nature of who this comics aimed at, little kids. So shadow is gonna suffer being written half heartily to let the plot about sonic fit only his light hearted, I'll just wait till Ian leaves the book. Will get a more mature writer that actually knows how to write characters like Shadow without making up or copying quirks from other heroes in order to make the childish tones match shadow.

[Shadowlax]

2 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

We're cool, but try to not look at it through the restricted lens of what exactly Shadow should be, like it's okay if he does a decision that doesnt sound like him it's what interesting characters are for.

I don't really mind weird ass interpretations of the characters , I don't really mind them making weird decisions. But it should contribute to interesting characterization or interesting characterization or at least a cool fight. I don't feel like I got none of that, so that's my issue. 

2 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

And it's not like they all have to stop a timebomb I don't see him "wasting their time" is such a big problem.

Because it this is his introduction. I don't think I clarified this, but if this was like issue 120, I wouldn't care as much. I would still not like it, but it would be whatever. This is an introductory issue , this is showing new viewers who shadow is. Everyone else had things to do and were doing them competently and solved a problem. Shadow accomplished nothing, he learned a lesson he had already learned didn't really need to learn again, and nothing happened and the fight was , and then rouge just laughed at him in the end. That's who they are presenting the character as. A person who wastes time and you should just laugh at as he walks off screen. it isn't more so they have place to go and do but rather what shadow is doing that should be indicating his value. And what his value is as of currently, he fights sonic for no reason and is wrong and then you laugh at him.

[Kuzu]

22 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

The head canon that is sonic 06? And shadows game, that is referenced in this book...

What?

You can't ignore the argument, and then go " haha I got you " and leave like you got the upper hand

Address the sonic 06 and shadow the hedgehog argument. 

Because if you don't, you have effectively just wasted my time. 

What do you want me to say? I ignored it because you weren't really making a point in bringing them up.

Shadow acts for the greater good...Shadow is trying to kill Eggman for the greater good here. So what was your point in bringing them up?

 

[Marco9966]

4 minutes ago, Dash Speed said:

I'm just gonna blame it on the nature of who this comics aimed at, little kids. So shadow is gonna suffer being written half heartily to let the plot about sonic fit only his light hearted, I'll just wait till Ian leaves the book. Will get a more mature writer that actually knows how to write characters like Shadow without making up or copying quirks from other heroes in order to make the childish tones match shadow.

So you're gonna blame the kids now? You know, the target audience.

[DabigRG]

16 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

 

Makes sense its the beginning of a series kinda slow and weird. 

I'm sure people will like it more and it will get better as they hit their stride 

I know. My worry is that this issue may have awkwardly if hopefully briefly halted what stride the come was starting to get.

[Shadowlax]

8 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

What do you want me to say? I ignored it because you weren't really making a point in bringing them up.

These are games where he matured, chilled out and is less rash in his decision making is noticibly more "Kind" ( as kind as an no talk edgelord like himself can be ) to other people. Sonic 06 in particular is a game where he literally sees that humanity betrays him, but he sees the bigger picture and decides its better if he doesn't embrace that dark part of him.

Quote

Shadow acts for the greater good...Shadow is trying to kill Eggman for the greater good here. So what was your point in bringing them up?

 

So that's why I brought it up, shadow's changed. And I think the shadow who was reasonable enough to see a future where his best friend imprisons him and goes " I'm still going to do the right thing " , is reasonable enough for rouge to talk it out with him and move on. 

I want to say this I apologize it feels like or if I was condescending to you. Formal Apology 

That said , I don't mind weird interpretations of the characters I don't mind them doing weird stuff. However I do mind when it feels like the story is ignoring growth to tell a story. It feels redundant and regressive. But it happens, not just in sonic, sometimes people wanna sell a fight. But the fight wasn't really worth all that either 

I'm not saying shadow had to be eggman's best friend, I'm not saying shadow has to like the idea. I am saying that shadow based on where's been would probably be reasonable enough to talk down from this with out the whole fight. That isn't to say he can't do unreasonable things from time to time, l think him taking the ME to get decked by knuckles was totally in character.I just don't quite think this works, because we have sorta been though this already. Shadow and knuckles interaction were new and there was a sort of disrespect there between the two , and eventually learned. I think shadow would trust sonic and rouges word on this.

 Then I believe you went " well what would the story be" maybe you don't need a shadow story now. I'm patient and shadow's a popular guy, he had a forces dlc, he's in the front of that racing game. And there's a chance he might be frigging smash bros of all things. I don't need a shadow story now, i'm not gonna die if they waited a year to tell a better story. Just tell a better story. 

But again i'm not all the audience, clearly some were fending for more shadow content and are content, and i'm happy for them

[Spidey3525]

56 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Eh, I normally don't like talking like this, but...is it weird that it seems like some of these issues(and the comic itself) has generally been a little underwhelming?

I'm not even sure the page count is really factor this time.

I agree, it's been kinda disappointing that not much has actually happened in the comic so far. There's just been so little established that is supposed to give readers a reason to be invested; all we really have so far is guessing who this villain  is, and even then the hints we've gotten for that is were practically nonexistent for the first four issues.
Even for the early issues of the reboot, we had way more questions that would make us want to read the next issue: What's the deal with Nagus? What's everyone's new origins and redesigns? Who are these new characters? Why is the planet tearing itself apart? How do the game locations  tie in to the new world map? Meanwhile, all we have so far for IDW is Tangle and villages A, B, C, D...you get the point.  I loved what Flynn did for Archie Sonic (both pre- and post- reboot), so I do have faith he can make this comic great...I just wish he wasn't taking so long right now. 

 

Also, I'm pretty disappointed how lazy the "Previously..." and "Roll Call" pages are done this time around. The former's just random panels from the last issues stuck together while the latter is the same but with pictures of the characters. Really wished they took Archie's approach, at least so we don't have to waste a page for the Roll Call section. Was really hoping the issue would finally provide an excuse as to where Shadow was during Forces too. 

[Shadowlax]

23 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

I know. My worry is that this issue may have awkwardly if hopefully briefly halted what stride the come was starting to get.

Maybe, but I think it will be fine. 

I'm more worried about the film doing that. And any potential tie in comics

 

[Kuzu]

28 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

These are games where he matured, chilled out and is less rash in his decision making is noticibly more "Kind" ( as kind as an no talk edgelord like himself can be ) to other people. Sonic 06 in particular is a game where he literally sees that humanity betrays him, but he sees the bigger picture and decides its better if he doesn't embrace that dark part of him.

So that's why I brought it up, shadow's changed. And I think the shadow who was reasonable enough to see a future where his best friend imprisons him and goes " I'm still going to do the right thing " , is reasonable enough for rouge to talk it out with him and move on. 

I want to say this I apologize it feels like or if I was condescending to you. Formal Apology 

That said , I don't mind weird interpretations of the characters I don't mind them doing weird stuff. However I do mind when it feels like the story is ignoring growth to tell a story. It feels redundant and regressive. But it happens, not just in sonic, sometimes people wanna sell a fight. But the fight wasn't really worth all that either 

I'm not saying shadow had to be eggman's best friend, I'm not saying shadow has to like the idea. I am saying that shadow based on where's been would probably be reasonable enough to talk down from this with out the whole fight. That isn't to say he can't do unreasonable things from time to time, l think him taking the ME to get decked by knuckles was totally in character.I just don't quite think this works, because we have sorta been though this already. Shadow and knuckles interaction were new and there was a sort of disrespect there between the two , and eventually learned. I think shadow would trust sonic and rouges word on this.

 Then I believe you went " well what would the story be" maybe you don't need a shadow story now. I'm patient and shadow's a popular guy, he had a forces dlc, he's in the front of that racing game. And there's a chance he might be frigging smash bros of all things. I don't need a shadow story now, i'm not gonna die if they waited a year to tell a better story. Just tell a better story. 

But again i'm not all the audience, clearly some were fending for more shadow content and are content, and i'm happy for them

Just because a character matures does not mean they drop their existing character traits, that's not how character development works. And this situation isn't really the same as the ones you're bringing up because the circumstances are so blatantly different. This isn't Shadow just randomly deciding to be an asshole by trusting some aliens he just met for the sake of a conflict or realizing that one of his closest friends is going to betray him. 

This is Eggman, literally the same Eggman who constantly makes ploys for world domination and shows absolutely no remorse or repentance in doing so. And he just literally took over the world and fucked it up royally. Losing his memory didn't suddenly just make all of that disappear, a point Shadow brings up himself as he is someone who understands having experienced it himself.  Now was Shadow acting rash and impulsive? Yes, but guess what? that's the entire point. It's called a character flaw and it's what drives stories for interesting conflicts. Eggman is FAR from being his friend, so I don't get how you can equate the situation in 06 with that when it's apples and oranges. 

 

I feel like your main problem is that you don't like how Shadow was portrayed as being "wrong" for his actions, especially given your rather simplistic view that this issue was making fun him and making him the butt of a joke. All that happened was that he acted little impulsive, for reasonable reasons, got talked down by Sonic and teased by Rouge a little. This wasn't some "Haha, let's laugh at Shadow" problem like you're making it sound. All it did was establish how his and Sonic's ideals clash and how those ideals can lead to a confrontation while also developing the "mystery" surrounding Eggman. It's really not as big a deal as you're making it sound. 

 

[Marco9966]

1 minute ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Just because a character matures does not mean they drop their existing character traits, that's not how character development works. And this situation isn't really the same as the ones you're bringing up because the circumstances are so blatantly different. This isn't Shadow just randomly deciding to be an asshole by trusting some aliens he just met for the sake of a conflict or realizing that one of his closest friends is going to betray him. 

This is Eggman, literally the same Eggman who constantly makes ploys for world domination and shows absolutely no remorse or repentance in doing so. And he just literally took over the world and fucked it up royally. Losing his memory didn't suddenly just make all of that disappear, a point Shadow brings up himself as he is someone who understands having experienced it himself.  Now was Shadow acting rash and impulsive? Yes, but guess what? that's the entire point. It's called a character flaw and it's what drives stories for interesting conflicts. Eggman is FAR from being his friend, so I don't get how you can equate the situation in 06 with that when it's apples and oranges. 

 

I feel like your main problem is that you don't like how Shadow was portrayed as being "wrong" for his actions, especially given your rather simplistic view that this issue was making fun him and making him the butt of a joke. All that happened was that he acted little impulsive, for reasonable reasons, got talked down by Sonic and teased by Rouge a little. This wasn't some "Haha, let's laugh at Shadow" problem like you're making it sound. All it did was establish how his and Sonic's ideals clash and how those ideals can lead to a confrontation while also developing the "mystery" surrounding Eggman. It's really not as big a deal as you're making it sound. 

 

100% agree! Shadow doesn't have to be right. If he was always right he wouldn't exist as the whole point of SA2 is changing his mind at the end.

Without character flaws there is simply no character.

[Shadowlax]

23 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

edit 

I feel like we are going in circles, we disagree on his characterization in this book. Lets leave it at that, you have better things to do than to bother with how angry a fiction hedgehog with ptsd should be and arguing about it. 

 

20 minutes ago, Marco9966 said:

100% agree! Shadow doesn't have to be right. If he was always right he wouldn't exist as the whole point of SA2 is changing his mind at the end.

Without character flaws there is simply no character.

I don't think I ever said shadow needs to be right. 

I just don't like the set up for this story, you can write plenty of stories where shadow and wrong and it works. This just isn't one of them. 

I like flawed shadow, I just don't think every scenario works that right.