The General 'Murican Politics Thread

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Speaking of hypocrisy.

just never ceases to amaze how people rage at one peaceful protest while supporting another.

Edit- And werent Iranian’s initially protesting over the price of eggs or something?

[Dark Qiviut]

*pulls out Internet megaphone* Yo, corporate neophytes of the Democratic and Republican Party! The idea of Single-Payer is very popular among both of your parties! Heads out of your investors' asses! *puts it away*

One of my favorite leftist pundits is Jimmy Dore, because he ain't afraid to eviscerate some neoliberal bullshit, especially when it's from the Democratic Party. For this case, any Dem who's against single-payer. Recently, one of Dore's fans emailed Schumer if he's for single-payer and forwarded Dore Schumer's response. Schumer's response? Corporate bought-and-paid-for jargon that, when dissected, is against single-payer. As predicted, Dore wouldn't have it.

Thank Lee Camp for linking the vid on Twitter (retweeted from Amir Amini here):

---

 

ETA: Two days ago, Nomiki Konst of The Young Turks interviewed Zephyr Teachout, a progressive Dem who primaried Governor Cuomo a few years ago and picked up a surprising 34% of the vote despite obtaining only $800,000 in campaign donations, a very miniscule amount in the state. In the interview, she believes Cuomo CAN be beaten.

 

---

Found this article that a left-winger retweeted about an hour after I posted the Teachout interview:

https://www.theroot.com/missouri-man-accused-of-attempting-terror-attack-on-amt-1821804616?utm_source=theroot_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

Quote

It’s time to come to grips with the “white identity extremist” problem we have in America.

The latest example: The FBI has charged a 26-year-old white Missouri man with attempting to commit a terror attack on an Amtrak train in rural Nebraska in October. According to multiple outlets, court documents that were unsealed on Wednesday reveal that Taylor Michael Wilson had participated in the deadly Unite the Right white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Va., and expressed a desire to murder black people.

Here’s more about the terrorism charge from Newsweek:

Quote

Wilson entered an engineer’s seat of an Amtrak train after midnight on Oct. 22 and started “playing with the controls” of the train, according to [FBI Special Agent Monte] Czaplewski’s account. No one was injured or killed in the attempted attack.

 

The Lincoln Journal Star adds that Wilson was found to be armed, carrying a “.38-caliber handgun in his waistband and a speed loader in this pocket.” He also wore a backpack containing more speed loaders, a box of ammunition, a knife, tin snips, scissors and a ventilation mask, authorities said. More weapons were later found at his home.

Wilson also carried a business card for the National Socialist Movement, which Newsweek describes as a neo-Nazi organization with ties to the American Nazi Party.

A Neo-Nazi who took part in the cult-right rally in Charlottesville planned to commit a terrorist attack on AA's in Nebraska. This isn't surprising at all with Trump legitimizing them, but it's still no less disturbing.

Edited January 8, 2018 by Dark Qiviut
Moved separate post containing the Root report to here.

[TailsTellsTales]

On 1/7/2018 at 7:10 PM, Dark Qiviut said:

*pulls out Internet megaphone* Yo, corporate neophytes of the Democratic and Republican Party! The idea of Single-Payer is very popular among both of your parties! Heads out of your investors' asses! *puts it away*

One of my favorite leftist pundits is Jimmy Dore, because he ain't afraid to eviscerate some neoliberal bullshit, especially when it's from the Democratic Party. For this case, any Dem who's against single-payer. Recently, one of Dore's fans emailed Schumer if he's for single-payer and forwarded Dore Schumer's response. Schumer's response? Corporate bought-and-paid-for jargon that, when dissected, is against single-payer. As predicted, Dore wouldn't have it.

Thank Lee Camp for linking the vid on Twitter (retweeted from Amir Amini here):

---

 

I like that the Jimmy guy did not vote for Hillary or Trump. I feel like people hate Trump so much that they are willing to vote anybody that opposes him as long they have a D next to their name. Who cares if they only serve the rich. I desperately wish somebody rather it be a democrat or republican would be somebody that fought for the homeless, poor, and middle class instead of always fighting for the extreme wealthy. It so immoral and downright evil to give massive tax cuts to wealthy while so many people are still going through economic despair.

That is like having a fancy dinner where everybody gets to eat cake and the poor have some cake crumbs, while the middle class person has a very thin slice of cake, while the super wealthy has truck filled with cakes. Then you give the poor ONE CRUMB of cake as their tax cut, the middle class about 15 cake crumbs, and the super wealthy another truck load of cakes. How does that make any sense?! Long ago the poor used to have a small slice of cake, yeah that's right, the poor could actually use a fork to eat cake! The middle class had a nice big chunk of cake, and the super wealthy had about 6 entire cakes. Sorry for the long cake analogy!

[8ther]

1 hour ago, TailsTellsTales said:

I like that the Jimmy guy did not vote for Hillary or Trump. I feel like people hate Trump so much that they are willing to vote anybody that opposes him as long they have a D next to their name.

 

I fucking dare you to say we'd be worse off with someone with D in their name at this point, i didn't like Hillary ether but i voted her anyway because i knew under a president Trump, shit like this would be a reality.

[Dark Qiviut]

3 hours ago, TailsTellsTales said:

I desperately wish somebody rather it be a democrat or republican would be somebody that fought for the homeless, poor, and middle class instead of always fighting for the extreme wealthy.

This fellow Democrat agrees. Our current duopoly has monopolized our government, and there's no legitimate third party anywhere to compete with them both. Other countries have two or three dominant parties, but other smaller parties exist for better or worse (e.g., Britain's UKIP).

1 hour ago, CD Sanic said:

I fucking dare you to say we'd be worse off with someone with D in their name at this point, i didn't like Hillary ether but i voted her anyway because i knew under a president Trump, shit like this would be a reality.

Trump and Hillary are fucking terrible, but Trump is factually worse. Even Hillary, despite being a major neocon on foreign policy, has more restraint than the shit Trump's threatening.

3 hours ago, TailsTellsTales said:

It so immoral and downright evil to give massive tax cuts to wealthy while so many people are still going through economic despair.

Your line here summarizes the problem of our government. Trump is the worst U.S. president in generations, but he's only the symptom to the problem. (No, it's not Russia.) Our problem stems to neoliberal/neoconservative policies fiscally, socially, and internationally, jump-started by the Reagan administration. Clinton expanded its destructive ideology to the point where then-Congressman Sanders accurately predicted a crash in 1998. Even under the Obama administration, people were still left out in the cold. The ACA, Obama's benchmark law, is capitalist healthcare and doesn't genuinely fix our broken healthcare system.

On the whole, our political system is completely out of touch with the working- and middle-classes. Independents make up the majority of registered voters for a reason. Really, it's not surprising that a snake-oil salesman and progressive populist were the most popular candidates from both parties during the primaries and each other's primary enemies since then.

[Tani Coyote]

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/01/gop-senator-says-shell-vote-to-restore-net-neutrality-rules/

Susan Collins says she will back a bill that would overturn the FCC's net neutrality rule change. It is unlikely it will pass the House, and especially unlikely it will muster the votes to override Trump's veto, but if it goes to the Senate floor, it will force Republicans to take a stand on the issue. One more Republican is needed for this bill to pass the Senate.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/01/10/576963434/federal-judge-temporarily-blocks-trumps-decision-to-end-daca

A federal judge has temporarily blocked Trump's executive order on DACA, buying a little more time for legislation.

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/09/politics/donald-trump-immigration-contradictions/index.html

Trump has, in a massive betrayal of his base, indicated he will sign any immigration bill Congress can put before him.

Naturally, social media is blowing up with angry Trump supporters furious that he is open to amnesty. Those who are angry, however, would likely be the deplorables Clinton talked about, since exit polls indicate half of Trump's voters - yes, half - were okay with amnesty for undocumented people. And that is undocumented in general, not just Dreamers. The Trump supporters who hate the idea of granting citizenship to the Dreamers are in the minority.

But their numbers are large enough to cost him re-election if Trump does not improve his numbers among Democrats and independents.

In short, Trump has done one of the most Presidential things in his term - saying he will sign whatever Congress can come up with - and may just lose in 2020 because of it. Hilarious.

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/09/politics/arizona-senate-joe-arpaio/index.html

Former Sheriff Joe Arpaio - yes, that Joe Arpaio - has entered the Senate race in Arizona. He is running on a pro-Trump platform, but that is a poor choice considering Kelli Ward, an equally prominent far right Trump supporter, is already in the race. The establishment Republican is Representative Martha McSally, who may have an advantage with the anti-establishment far right (likely to end up serving as surrogates of Trump and Bannon) being divided.

In turn, this race will force open another US House seat and raise the possibility of a Democrat picking up the Senate seat.

As for Arpaio's chances, it's worth recalling that after a long career of popularity, he was finally tossed out of the sheriff office in 2016. That would indicate voters in Arizona are largely sick of him.

[Candescence]

Sen. Dianne Feinstein has released the entire Fusion GPS senate testimony transcript (which was concerning the Steele dossier), as per the wishes of Fusion GPS and the guy who testified, over the objections of the GOP members of the senate investigation.

While the whole thing is a massive PDF of over 300 pages, people have been crawling through the details, and some important things have popped up:

• Steele approached the FBI over the contents of the dossier, concerned about the notion of a US presidential candidate being possibly blackmailed by a foreign government. Turns out the FBI were already aware and investigating, apparently due to information they got from someone from inside the Trump campaign, though this is likely George Papadopoulos' booze-fueled gloating to Alexander Downer (the Australian High Commissioner to the UK at the time). This functionally destroys the GOP narrative that the entire investigation into Russian collusion is based around the dossier - it ain't.
• Opposition research on Trump funded by a GOP group during the primaries then by the Dems also brought up ties to numerous criminal figures, though no clear criminality proven as of yet.
• At least one person has been murdered over the dossier - likely a Russian individual who had been arranged to be assassinated by Putin or his cronies.
• The interviewee, Simpson, has no reason to doubt Steele's credentials or any information he's provided, especially since Steele's pedigree is very strong.

This has thrown a massive wrench into GOP attempts to discredit the dossier and the FBI/Mueller investigation, which is the real reason Grassley & Graham had been trying to keep the transcript under wraps, and making themselves look like Trump stooges in the process.

[Tornado]

On 1/6/2018 at 7:03 PM, Dark Qiviut said:

Dylann Roof being a convicted terrorist doesn't affect my position on the death penalty. It has no business in our justice system, period; and it should be banned under ALL circumstances. Too many innocent people have been executed, and we as a country should not have a government responsible for killing, too.

As long as militaries exist in the world, this is far too idealist of a viewpoint to actually be used as an argument against the death penalty; even if you believe that the point of prisons should be rehabilitation (which in the US they really aren't).

 

13 hours ago, TailsTellsTales said:

It so immoral and downright evil to give massive tax cuts to wealthy while so many people are still going through economic despair.

No it's not. There actually are morally indefensible things that have been done by the US government; even in fairly recent history. Tax cuts put forth to push questionable economic policy is not one of them, even if part of the reasoning behind doing them is crony capitalism.

[Tani Coyote]

On the plus side, Grassley is 84 and will be 88 when his term is up in 2022. He's a likely retirement.

Unfortunately Iowa is a reddish purple, and the GOP is likely to keep the seat if a Democrat wins in 2020. Sigh.

5 minutes ago, Tornado said:

No it's not. There actually are morally indefensible things that have been done by the US government; even in fairly recent history. Tax cuts put forth to push questionable economic policy is not one of them, even if part of the reasoning behind doing them is crony capitalism.

Considering the GOP goes misty eyed at austerity and embraces "cut social services for the poor" to pay for tax cuts as a contrast to the Democrats using "raise taxes on the rich" to pay for increased social services, I think it's fair to call the tax cuts evil.

Particularly since the bill is going to cause absolute chaos in the health insurance market if Congress does not get a really robust Obamacare subsidy bill through.

This is a case of legal violence. For the most part they're not directly harming people, but they are creating circumstances damaging to the quality of life.

The British Empire did not directly kill millions of Indians, but they were happily shipping huge amounts of food to the rest of the Empire as the people of India starved to death. British imperial policy ultimately killed those people, and that's what matters.

[Tornado]

27 minutes ago, Bergamo (Ogilvie) said:

Considering the GOP goes misty eyed at austerity and embraces "cut social services for the poor" to pay for tax cuts as a contrast to the Democrats using "raise taxes on the rich" to pay for increased social services, I think it's fair to call the tax cuts evil.

That's not tautological.

 

Quote

The British Empire did not directly kill millions of Indians, but they were happily shipping huge amounts of food to the rest of the Empire as the people of India starved to death. British imperial policy ultimately killed those people, and that's what matters.

You're right. Millions of people starving to death to serve an economy built on imperialism is downright evil. You might as well have said "Slavery was bad" as an economic point of comparison.

 

But... lowering tax rates the most on groups that generally already pays more taxes than most others and lowering them the least on a group that most likely pays negative taxes as it is (but for the time being increasing after tax income for everyone) is... equivalent?

[KHCast]

9 hours ago, Bergamo (Ogilvie) said:

Susan Collins says she will back a bill that would overturn the FCC's net neutrality rule change. It is unlikely it will pass the House, and especially unlikely it will muster the votes to override Trump's veto, but if it goes to the Senate floor, it will force Republicans to take a stand on the issue. One more Republican is needed for this bill to pass the Senate.

Hoping SOMETHING is done at this point. And hoping people aren’t getting tired and moving on.

 

[KHCast]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/world/national-security/immigration-agents-target-7-eleven-stores-in-nationwide-sweep/2018/01/10/315dae76-f62b-11e7-b34a-b85626af34ef_story.html

 

Around 100 7/11’s have been raided by ICE agents, and around 20 employees have been arrested under suspicion of being illegal. 7/11 has 3 days to prove the rest are authorized to work.

[TailsTellsTales]

On 1/9/2018 at 9:59 PM, Dark Qiviut said:

On the whole, our political system is completely out of touch with the working- and middle-classes. Independents make up the majority of registered voters for a reason. Really, it's not surprising that a snake-oil salesman and progressive populist were the most popular candidates from both parties during the primaries and each other's primary enemies since then.

This why primaries need to be open that way independents can vote.

On 1/10/2018 at 7:55 AM, Tornado said:

No it's not. There actually are morally indefensible things that have been done by the US government; even in fairly recent history. Tax cuts put forth to push questionable economic policy is not one of them, even if part of the reasoning behind doing them is crony capitalism.

I will have to strongly disagree with that. Giving massive huge tax cuts to people who do not need it in an economy where people are hurting like never before since the great depression I find to be a very evil and vicious thing. You know that money could have been used to provide free public college instead which would help provide badly needed high skilled workers to the workforce.

On 1/10/2018 at 8:13 AM, Tornado said:

But... lowering tax rates the most on groups that generally already pays more taxes than most others and lowering them the least on a group that most likely pays negative taxes as it is (but for the time being increasing after tax income for everyone) is... equivalent?

I hear this point so much used. This idea because the extreme wealthy already pays what like 70% of all taxes that is typically said is a very misleading argument. It basically screams they should not be taxed that much. But what people fail to see is that a huge massive chunk of the country makes so little money that they can not pay much taxes even though they still pay taxes. The fact remains is that the extreme wealthy, even if they pay only 15% tax, they would still be the ones paying the most taxes in the country. That is how bad inequality has become.

The working poor and middle class pays way too high in taxes. Some of the poor and middle class end up having all their tax returns taken away from them to pay bills or student loans they have in addition to wage garnishments effectively making their tax rate much higher. If there was anybody who desperately could use a tax cut it would be the working poor and the remaining middle class people.

[KHCast]

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/01/11/us/politics/trump-shithole-countries.html?referer=

So there’s no backtracking or defending him here like at all. Everyone in the room is literally ust dumbfounded at this point by the man. The guy is senial and blatantly racist 

[Dizcrybe]

I mean, it just confirms what so many of us already knew: Trump is a white supremacist.

[KHCast]

24 minutes ago, Dizcrybe said:

I mean, it just confirms what so many of us already knew: Trump is a white supremacist.

Yeah, but now people can’t justifty or make some shitty excuse without blatantly looking shit themselves.

[Tornado]

I'd be impressed if European countries had the balls to call him out over it.

 

 

11 hours ago, TailsTellsTales said:

I will have to strongly disagree with that. Giving massive huge tax cuts to people who do not need it in an economy where people are hurting like never before since the great depression

Oh? That's certainly interesting to hear. How so?

Quote

 I find to be a very evil and vicious thing.

Yeah, you said that already.

Quote

You know that money could have been used to provide free public college instead which would help provide badly needed high skilled workers to the workforce.

That theoretical money wasn't being used to do so before the tax cuts. There's no reason to act like that theoretical money would have automatically done so had the tax cuts died in Congress; nor that the tax cuts preclude the ability to do so until 2026 or whenever the tax cuts ultimately expire.

11 hours ago, TailsTellsTales said:

Some of the poor and middle class end up having all their tax returns taken away from them to pay bills or student loans they have in addition to wage garnishments effectively making their tax rate much higher

That's not what an effective tax rate actually is.

 

 

 

 

 

How about this: You want to call it "downright evil" or "vicious", instead of "probably unsound economic policy following extensive investigation that suggests it would be" let's put a number on it. What are the sliding scales of "Evil"? Are 1950s levels of (largely cosmetic) taxation the gold standard; where all of a hundred people probably actually paid the 91% marginal tax rate, the country went through three recessions in a decade despite effectively controlling the world's industrial base, the lowest income tax rate was still 20% and the income tax laws were written so even moderately well-to-do people could create actual legitimate tax shelters?

[KHCast]

11 minutes ago, Tornado said:

 

I'd be impressed if European countries had the balls to call him out over it.

 

Didn’t France call out trump a few times in the past? I can see them or Canada(not Europe but still) calling out Trump on this. But we’ll see. It probably would just egg trump on to say or do something stupid if someone called him out. 

[Tornado]

Let me rephrase that: I'd be impressed if European countries had the balls to call him out over sentiment hanging in the air over most of Western Europe. If the government of France (which last year celebrated its "triumph over fascism" because the openly fascist candidate only received 16% of the overall vote when the one who ultimately won received 18%) wants to talk about how much people from Trump's "shithole" countries should be welcomed with open arms worldwide, it should take a nice hard look at how popular the Shengen Area is in the EU following the fall of the Syrian government (that France precipitated even more than the US did this time, for that matter).

 

It's a pretty shitty attitude to have towards people living in countries that didn't ask to be cared about only insofar as it directly benefits developed Western nations to do so, but it is not at all a Trump-specific or American-specific viewpoint. It was a major reason the UK left the EU entirely even though it wasn't a Shengen state and had a natural border. Hungary and Bulgaria even built walls. The main thing that can be hoped for is that Trump's continuous ability to "tell it like it is" keeps horrifying people who have to bend over backwards to not admit that they thought the same thing until it was put out there in the bluntest way possible.

[PaddyFancy]

Trump blames Obama for the new US embassy in London, and cancels his trip to open it in February. A decision to move that was made by George W. Bush.

A very stable genius.

[Patticus]

Quote

A lawyer for President Donald Trump arranged a $130,000 payment to a former adult-film star a month before the 2016 election as part of an agreement that precluded her from publicly discussing an alleged sexual encounter with Mr. Trump, according to people familiar with the matter.

Michael Cohen, who spent nearly a decade as a top attorney at the Trump Organization, arranged payment to the woman, Stephanie Clifford, in October 2016 after her lawyer negotiated the nondisclosure agreement with Mr. Cohen, these people said.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-lawyer-arranged-130-000-payment-for-adult-film-stars-silence-1515787678

Well, at least now we know why Trump went off on a libel law rant at his meeting earlier in the week! Not that he hasn't has his sights set on them for years, the narcissistic babyman.

[Dark Qiviut]

12 hours ago, Tornado said:

Oh? That's certainly interesting to hear. How so?

Pew Research reported in 2013 that economic inequality was at its highest since 1928. Eighteen months ago, the WP reported it may be higher than any American era. A few months later, CNN showed evidence of how bad it is. And with the new Tax Scam that was pushed through the GOP-dominant chambers (and signed), bet your bottom dollar it's gonna get worse.

 

Update on more different political news:

Senator Sanders will host a town hall to discuss and promote Medicare for All. It'll take place on January 23, 7PM EST online in three places: Young Turks (address in the image preview), ATTN:, and NowThis.

For those going to or are living in the DC area, there's an RSVP page on Facebook.

---

ETA: In the midst of Donald Trump's racist commentary (and MSM's focus on his vulgarity), David Shuster tells us his words stick true to "white supremacist ideology" (quote from the tweet below):

 

[Tornado]

8 hours ago, Dark Qiviut said:

Pew Research reported in 2013 that economic inequality was at its highest since 1928. Eighteen months ago, the WP reported it may be higher than any American era. A few months later, CNN showed evidence of how bad it is. And with the new Tax Scam that was pushed through the GOP-dominant chambers (and signed), bet your bottom dollar it's gonna get worse.

And I'd like to see TailsTellsTales attempt to correlate that to "people are hurting like never before since the great depression" instead of just repeating how "Evil" it all is. There have been periods of serious economic strife for blue collar and no collar workers in the past. Is 2018 more "hurting" for those groups than the 1970s, when the industrial sector of the Northeast collapsed? The 1980s, when the domestic-built auto industry began to collapse? Last decade when the housing market collapsed?

[KHCast]

12 hours ago, PaddyFancy said:

Trump blames Obama for the new US embassy in London, and cancels his trip to open it in February. A decision to move that was made by George W. Bush.

A very stable genius.

I’m being told it supposedly was just a move “made” by Bush, but Obama went through with it, making it ultimately his decision meaning trump wasn’t actually lying. Can someone confirm or deconfirm?

Anyway have this to share. And it’s only been a year of his presidency!

Regarding the “shithole country” line, this is my favorite retort so far

 

[KHCast]

Jesus I can’t imagine the fear that was going through everyone in Hawaii’s mind when that fake drill went off. What the fuck happened to trigger that alert?