Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

6 minutes ago, Pixel said:

Sonic Adventure is completely different to the glorious Classic titles.

The Classic Sonic titles were fundamentally platform titles that featured expansive level design and encouraged both exploration and mastering the mechanics of Sonic's movements to clear the levels as fast as possible. Sonic Adventure however, is entirely a spectacle and doesn't have levels that are designed for or encourage fast platforming or exploration, committing a cardinal sin of the Classic Sonic game design. There's barely any platforming in Adventure, it's almost all just running along a straight line while admiring the scenery and running through boost pads. Sonic Adventure sometimes even pauses the action entirely on a 'wow' setpiece. These sections involve no real gameplay whatsoever and simply hope to show off Sonic's speed in a cheap marketing bid.

I disagree. I thought the Adventure games games had good level designs. Yes some of them made me want to pull my hair out (Crazy Gadget, Mad Space, Big the Cat's levels in general - control wise!) but I felt that the gameplay flowed pretty well and it wasn't just about boost pads. It has fluid gameplay that made you feel like you were playing a character who ran on two feet. Also some levels do offer exploration.

I am NOt trying to change your opinion. You have a right to it, but I am asking to look at your opinion from a different perspective. 

[Diogenes]

54 minutes ago, Sniper dreams said:

As far as I'm aware, the biggest problem with recent stories is simply Pontac and Graff not having a clue what they are writing about. 

And no, I am not exaggerating. They literally did not know who Sonic or Tails even were. Hell, when somebody questioned them on Adventure 2, they just said they had never heard of that game. They conducted their research on wikipedia 

I'm really tired of this criticism, as if the only people who have the right to write for a series are those who are already devoted fans, as if Pontac and Graff were brought on to write the series the same way that drove people off in the first place.

[Lucid Dream]

8 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

I'm really tired of this criticism, as if the only people who have the right to write for a series are those who are already devoted fans, as if Pontac and Graff were brought on to write the series the same way that drove people off in the first place.

What are you talking about? I never said anything romotely like that. Being a fan is entirely irrelevant.
You acknowledge them as professional writers right? Is it not the job of professional writers to do adequate research on the topic they are going to be writing about? 

Not knowing anything about the characters you're writing about is obviously a very bad thing. When they fixed that problem in Sonic Boom Fire and Ice, the story came out decently. I have hope that they'll continue to improve in future Sonic games. 

[Pixel]

*Alas Sonic, when you were young you broke every rule,
but now you aren't one of those,
you aren't a live coal,
don't kill the live coal...,
everywhere I go, some joker in Sonic Team is trying to kill Sonic,
but Sonic is alive
don't kill the live coal...*

My eulogy in honour of the glorious Classic Sonic formula :(

[Fr0zenanus]

17 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

I'm really tired of this criticism, as if the only people who have the right to write for a series are those who are already devoted fans, as if Pontac and Graff were brought on to write the series the same way that drove people off in the first place.

well, they written the dialogue for Madworld, and that supposedly had good writing, 

but that was probably more about being aware of what they were writing, not just doing in depth research. more like being able to "get" it, rather than "knowing" it.

i mean, they had writing credentials on "Reboot", but they also had some on "Pacman: The Ghostly Adventure" which i think didn't turn out well. (it has good-art and animation coming off an japanese studio making 3D animation,)

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, Sniper dreams said:

What are you talking about? I never said anything romotely like that. Being a fan is entirely irrelevant.

You seem to expect them to know everything about the series from the start, how else is that going to happen?

1 minute ago, Sniper dreams said:

You acknowledge them as professional writers right? Is it not the job of professional writers to do adequate research on the topic they are going to be writing about? 

Not knowing anything about the characters you're writing about is obviously a very bad thing. 

And they did do their research, they just don't have the entirety of a 25 year old series memorized, most of which isn't even relevant to the position the series is in now.

[Tracker_TD]

1 minute ago, Pixel said:

*Alas Sonic, when you were young you broke every rule,
but now you aren't one of those,
you aren't a live coal,
don't kill the live coal...,
everywhere I go, some joker in Sonic Team is trying to kill Sonic,
but Sonic is alive
don't kill the live coal...*

My eulogy in honour of the glorious Classic Sonic formula

Ahahaha.

Good lord, this topic has gone places. 

Anyway, as I said back when I posted the tweets, hell knows what this new character is. Yes it's technically 'news' there is one, but calling the shots on the character, let alone being this embarrassingly melodramatic about it, is just dense. Speculation's one thing, but forming some kind of "Sonic Team is killing Sonic!" opinion, with this bizarre discussion all stemming from a tidbit on a character we know nothing about is pitiful.

[Lucid Dream]

3 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

You seem to expect them to know everything about the series from the start, how else is that going to happen?

And they did do their research, they just don't have the entirety of a 25 year old series memorized, most of which isn't even relevant to the position the series is in now.

No, please stop putting words in my mouth. You're grossly exaggerating.

I expect them to know Sonics key games, and personality. I don't expect them to use wikipedia and a few forums as a source for their knowledge. Again, that is very unprofessional, and lacking. It also leads to a sleuth of problems.

And again, when Pontac and Graff did their research on the characters personalities, they managed to write better comedy, do better characterisations of the characters and a better story. 

[Pixel]

Thanks guys for complimenting my poetry :)

I'll be sure to write some more eulogy in honour of glorious Classic Sonic, a memory once passed in the eyes of Sonic Team.

[Indigo Rush]

12 minutes ago, Pixel said:

*Alas Sonic, when you were young you broke every rule,
but now you aren't one of those,
you aren't a live coal,
don't kill the live coal...,
everywhere I go, some joker in Sonic Team is trying to kill Sonic,
but Sonic is alive
don't kill the live coal...*

My eulogy in honour of the glorious Classic Sonic formula

This made me laugh, cheers mate.

What the actual codswallop cacophony chaos is going on in this thread

[Pixel]

I thought we all needed some light fun :p

[Diogenes]

2 minutes ago, Sniper dreams said:

No, please stop putting words in my mouth. You're grossly exaggerating.

I'm grossly exaggerating, but you're perfectly truthful in saying they knew nothing about the series. Sure.

2 minutes ago, Sniper dreams said:

I expect them to know Sonics key games, and personality.

And I think they do, and as far as Sonic's personality goes, better than most of the writers that came before them. That they didn't immediately remember which game SA2 was when they were first starting doesn't mean they had no knowledge of the series.

2 minutes ago, Sniper dreams said:

I don't expect them to use wikipedia and a few forums as a source for their knowledge.

Wikipedia's fine for something like Sonic, what's the problem?

2 minutes ago, Sniper dreams said:

And again, when Pontac and Graff did their research on the characters personalities, they managed to write better comedy, do better characterisations of the characters and a better story. 

I wouldn't doubt there was something of an adjustment period, but I feel like the larger problem was that they weren't given much control to shape the story, and were mostly just writing filler dialogue around the framework they were given. They mentioned something along the lines of having more control with Lost World, which is why the story's much more coherent and focused.

[Pixel]

*Doo lee da

Reason is the only way to get Classic Sonic back,
but sometimes reason turns into another word for Adventure,
STOP!
I don't want to hear it anymore..
boost pad, spring pack,
you keep right on a talking-Adventure
STOP!
I don't want to hear it anymore,
you sing yourself to sleep each night with Open Your Heart,
STOP!
I don't want to hear it anymooooooore!*

My final eulogy for tonight :)

[Kiah]

On 10/29/2016 at 7:54 PM, Pixel said:

*Alas Sonic, when you were young you broke every rule,
but now you aren't one of those,
you aren't a live coal,
don't kill the live coal...,
everywhere I go, some joker in Sonic Team is trying to kill Sonic,
but Sonic is alive
don't kill the live coal...*

My eulogy in honour of the glorious Classic Sonic formula

You have been warned REPEATEDLY by Staff to stop derailing this thread and stirring up trouble with your obnoxious attitude of excessive praise of Classic Sonic and your endless bashing of anything that isn't as well as your constant stating your opinions as fact and you didn't listen. Have a strike, and from now on actually contribute something productive to this topic or don't post in it at all. Seriously, absolutely no more of this unless you want additional disciplinary action.

As for everyone else, this topic once again is getting a bit heated so I'm going to ask that everyone calm down and engage in constructive and respectful conversation and discussion, please.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

What was the original topic this topic was on before everything got derailed exactly?

[Lucid Dream]

 

8 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Wikipedia's fine for something like Sonic, what's the problem?

I wouldn't doubt there was something of an adjustment period, but I feel like the larger problem was that they weren't given much control to shape the story, and were mostly just writing filler dialogue around the framework they were given. They mentioned something along the lines of having more control with Lost World, which is why the story's much more coherent and focused.

It's unprofessional and leads to bad characterisation. I was using a hyperbole to exemplify how unprofessional it is. You stuffing words in my mouth is doing a strawman fallacy. Again. Also, are you honestly telling me Sonic Colours had a better Sonic than SatBK?  I thought Sonics banter, mood and treatment of others was quite fine there. Certainly better than talking excessively to robots and making an abundence of crappy food jokes. 

I don't see why you're bringing Sonic Lost World into this. Sure they made a more coherent story, but the characters were still pretty flawed. Eggman was good though, so I give them that. Still, they can do better, and we've seen them do better when they do their research. 

[Sonictrainer]

Just now, SenEDtor Missile said:

What was the original topic this topic was on before everything got derailed exactly?

The "New Character" if I remember correctly.

[Mad Convoy]

Just now, SenEDtor Missile said:

What was the original topic this topic was on before everything got derailed exactly?

Sonic 2017.

Trailer and speculation-- since it was recently announced that a new character was going to be added to the game, people have been discussing what they want out of this character as well as their speculation as to what that character is going to be like.

[Pixel]

The mods clearly have no sense of humour and need to eat some glorious classic chilli dogs.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Just now, Pixel said:

The mods clearly have no sense of humour and need to eat some glorious classic chilli dogs.

I can't tell if you're being serious or if you're just parodying yourself at this point.

[Kiah]

21 hours ago, Pixel said:

The mods clearly have no sense of humour and need to eat some glorious classic chilli dogs.

I don't see anything funny about you disrupting an entire thread single-handedly with your obnoxiousness. That, and being disrespectful towards anyone, let alone a moderator isn't going to be tolerated. Have another strike and a two-week suspension to go with it. I strongly suggest you shape up your behavior between now and then if you want to continue to be a part of this community.

[PickleBrows]

So, the situation so far is that the Classic formula was arguably changed up before its time and hasn't been bested yet, 3D Sonic has thrown at least one of every paint at the wall, new characters can be a little scary, Boom Sonic needs to take off "this much" sports tape to ride the rollercoaster, and nose hair jokes are questionable. I reckon everybody's at a stalemate on this one, you literally can't have a winning argument on a foundation like this. It's like a jelly Jenga tower; looks amazing, plenty of flavour, but it's beyond impractical!

...I liked that metaphor a lot more when I first thought of it.

How's about a little solid ground to get running again? Namely, this "new component" that we've been told about and having a guess at just what it could possibly be!

We've got 2D and 3D back for this game, and now it sounds like we have something running alongside or across these two styles. Now for me, I'm not entirely sure if it's a completely separate third gameplay style. If it is, I'd assume they'd be bringing in a third Sonic to head it and I'm just not sure they really need it. I'd say the Classic gameplay and a modified boost formula style would be able to incorporate just about anything between them.

Instead, I think it's going to be a gimmick of some sort for the two Sonic's to make use of. I don't think we'll be switching Sonic's during a stage, their different styles would probably mess up the flow of the levels as well as the player's learning of the controls. Right now I think it's going to be some sort of time travel gimmick. There's got to be something time related in the game to explain Classic Sonic being back, and I can't see them not having a happy ending where Sonic undoes whatever events lead to what we see in the trailer. The idea of areas becoming accessible depending on the time zone you're in could be interesting if they can do it without being intrusive on the player's progression.

 

 

[MightyRay]

So about the new character. I wouldn't mind seeing some more insects or bugs in the games? Maybe a beetle or a butterfly? I'd love to see a sonic styled spider or scorpion personally. Especially a jumping spider... they are so cute! 

[Diogenes]

2 minutes ago, Sniper dreams said:

It's unprofessional and leads to bad characterisation.

I'm seeing better characterization than in most of the series. A few bad jokes aside Colors was a breath of fresh air after the decade or so earlier.

2 minutes ago, Sniper dreams said:

I was using a hyperbole to exemplify how unprofessional it is. You stuffing words in my mouth is doing a strawman fallacy.

That seems awful convenient for you. Can you really claim hyperbole after saying "and no, I am not exaggerating"?

2 minutes ago, Sniper dreams said:

Again. Also, are you honestly telling me Sonic Colours had a better Sonic than SatBK?  I thought Sonics banter, mood and treatment of others was quite fine there. Certainly better than talking excessively to robots and making an abundence of crappy food jokes.

I prefer the overall direction, yeah, even if the individual lines have some mixed results. Writing Sonic with some flaws, writing him knowing his style is a little dated, writing him with some genuine chemistry with Tails, I feel that's better than the blandly perfect Sonic of SatBK.

2 minutes ago, Sniper dreams said:

I don't see why you're bringing Sonic Lost World into this. Sure they made a more coherent story, but the characters were still pretty flawed. Eggman was good though, so I give them that. Still, they can do better, and we've seen them do better when they do their research. 

And I, personally, consider the characterization in Lost World to be far beyond most of the writing in the series before it. And again, I feel the jump between Colors and Lost World has more to do with letting them write more freely than some assumed research.

[Fr0zenanus]

do we have any sources to go on, to get hints who the new character is?

like going on imageboard sites, twitter accounts. or previous press releases. 

i'm going suggest it's Sonic's Oneechan, because i frequent /a/ more than /v/