UK General Election 2015 "p.g. 12 DOOM!"

[Stacy]

I am sorry but I am tired of the far left and far right obsession with race, gender. They all bad is each other they're the ones making it worse for society, they're different yet similar. We need do to address individual problems (female rape, male suicide as examples) but from a more balanced view point. But we need to start seeing people as people more which no side will do, stop using gender and race as excuse to belittle people that goes both UKIP and the Greens. Just sod off with it you're both just as bad.

 

We need to stop politicizing race, gender etc. across the whole political spectrum. People should not be political pawns in a mad chess game for short sighted ideological bullshit that in the end helps no one. It will never happen though.

Oh great, an another Bro-cialist!

 

If we must have SJ-style gender politics, let them stay at the parliament and not on our streets, please. If you respond with "nanny state" or other invectives, you're not deserving your place in this debate.

 

*Applying I don't want women in politics*   I am a Trans Female you prat! I would like both genders in politics everyone has should their place in society, everyone. Maybe if stop belittling each gender when might get some diversity in our society.

 

"The great comrade penis salutes you!".

 

Bro-cialist? What a ignorant person you are. 

[Stacy]

There's a difference between advocating women in politics and advocating feminine policies, you know. Margaret Thatcher anyone?

What I want in the UK is feminine policies. That's very simple.

 

Then why didn't you say that instead of using feminist tripe belittling men!  *faceplams*

[Willsy]

One thing I'm worried about is what the UK will do if the tension between NATO and Russia kicks off into something worse. Russia is a global superpower, if they launched an attack on us when we only have a small amount of defences (that might just keep going down) then we might have a serious problem. In other words, we would be fucked. Point is, I don't agree with the idea that we should cut down on defences even more, at least not right now.

I'm also concerned about human rights and LGBT issues in the UK, they are really important to me but a different kind of important to what I just talked about. (Social issues kind of exist on a different plain to national security issues for me, not that they aren't important at all).

[Stacy]

"belittling men"? That's a tired old Mens Rights argument. There's nothing in this world that belittles men. You know the concept of Male Privilege, right?

 

Men's rights?

 

Oh come on Lemanic you can't be serious with that?

 

Both genders can belittled and marginalized. Anyone can be belittled and marginalized. I've been abused by men but I don't think all men are like that even if I do feel uncomfortable in certain situations with men. Come on.

 

Sorry this getting way off topic but I am the only who thinks Lemanic post here is deeply flawed?

 

EDIT: Never have I felt so insulted like that on here. Just agh.

[SuperLink]

I'd like to ask we try to all keep our cool in this thread. Politics and elections affect our very lives in very different ways depending on who you are or where you're from so some heated or fiery discussion is going to become inevitable in a thread like this.

 

But please, I'd like to avoid making it personal and keeping it civil regardless of your feelings for certain subjects, that goes for everyone.

[Kittea]

Don't worry about it. I'm Welsh and I can't remember the name.

 

Right now I'm not sure who I'll be voting for. Obviously I'm definitely not voting for UKIP though >_<

 

This is actually going to be my first time voting and what a time it is because I basically have to vote for the best of a bad situation. I'm looking into everything right now.

[Stacy]

Y'know, Stacy, it is possible to care about more than one thing at once. The Middle East is on fire right now, with thousands of people dying every day. Saudi Arabia's bombing Yemen. Iraq and Syria are falling apart because of ISIS, and America's fighting an undeclared war against them (while doing everything possible to avoid voting on it). And yet you're worried about food banks and human trafficking? Where are your priorities? 

 

Better than a lot of SJ peoples are. Funny I actually care what you just put I am deeply concerned with what is going on there I think I mentioned a few times on here. Its just a lot of SJ people never talk about or focus on bigger issues. Most of them are more interested in representation in pop culture (comic book covers), people's appearance, how to act, how to applaud its absurd to me in the grand scheme of things and these issues never lead to anything meaningful which is more annoying. It would bother me much less if they had some meaningful solutions other than shaming and mud slinging. At least some do talk about some bigger issues but not many. I blame Buzzfeed and all this awful new Progressive biased click bait media.

[Delta Starfire]

Better than a lot of SJ peoples are. Funny I actually care what you just put I am deeply concerned with what is going on there I think I mentioned a few times on here. Its just a lot of SJ people never talk about or focus on bigger issues. Most of them are more interested in representation in pop culture (comic book covers), people's appearance, how to act, how to applaud its absurd to me in the grand scheme of things and these issues never lead to anything meaningful which is more annoying. It would bother me much less if they had some meaningful solutions other than shaming and mud slinging. At least some do talk about some bigger issues but not many. I blame Buzzfeed and all this awful new Progressive biased click bait media.

 

Little things that you think are harmless can contribute to the big problems that hurt many people. The portrayal of women and minorities in the media, for example, can perpetuate negative stereotypes and narratives that harm people who already have little voice. I see nothing at all wrong with consciousness raising about those things. Moreover, you have no business telling anyone else what their priorities should be. We can't actively care about every issue out there, and some people simply do more good focussing on areas they understand than they would trying to fight for the issues you care more about. 

 

And I'm sorry to say this, but I must agree whole-heartedly with what Lemanic has said. For a trans woman, your arguments sound an awful lot like those of the Men's Rights movement. 

[Stacy]

Little things that you think are harmless can contribute to the big problems that hurt many people. The portrayal of women and minorities in the media, for example, can perpetuate negative stereotypes and narratives that harm people who already have little voice. I see nothing at all wrong with consciousness raising about those things. Moreover, you have no business telling anyone else what their priorities should be. We can't actively care about every issue out there, and some people simply do more good focussing on areas they understand than they would trying to fight for the issues you care more about. 

 

And I'm sorry to say this, but I must agree whole-heartedly with what Lemanic has said. For a trans woman, your arguments sound an awful lot like those of the Men's Rights movement. 

 

I don't support or follow movement like that and I am insulted that you stereotype me to think that I do. Is it wrong to care about all people as a whole? Rather than split into categories of who is more "oppressed"? 

[Brad]

This got heated quickly, lol.

 

Even though I'm worried Greens wouldn't know what to do with their power I'd rather see them put pressure on the big two poison parties, or see them at least try to shake things up a little bit, which is why they hold my vote. They distinctly advocate the advancement in social inequalities and renewable energy which I think need to be big issues right now. Granted I'm not 100% with British politics but I'd rather vote for somebody I overall agree with than abstain or vote for the lesser of two evils. 

 

Also, to set the record straight. Greens never said they'd actually put the queen in a council house, that's just propaganda. They were talking about destroying the monarchy (which I'm whatever on) and the quote was "I can't see that the Queen is ever going to be really poor, but I'm sure we can find a council house for her - we're going to build lots more". A quote taken out of context when they were making a joke over building more council houses.

 

I also find the way you discuss parties you don't agree with, Stacy, pretty downright offensive so I wouldn't be engaging in a respectful discussion with you. But this whole "anti social justice" thing you have really puzzles me. You make it sound like the Greens wanting to support social equality is almost a bad thing, and that anyone that fights in the corner of the less privileged is immediately a SJW which wants to kill white males. Which isn't true. At all. It makes it even more jarring when Trans is probably the single most oppressed group seeing violence to them and need more exposure. People asking for better exposure and overall representation on the same level of the non-privileged isn't really much to ask but you make it sound like we need to stay right where we are. Also, people like being in their individual labels and being prideful of them. Being diverse makes us human, erasing those labels erases their identities.

 

This whole "hippies" thing is about 30 years out of date too, so let's not lmao. 

[Big Panda]

I was really disheartened when I learned my dad voted UKIP...

But to be fair, I don't think he knows about the anti-LGBT stuff.

[Candescence]

I am so glad Australia actually has a competent Greens party. And that Labor is the lesser of two evils. The Liberal Party has pretty much gone straight off the deep end so hard at this point that they would seriously have to shift towards the centre to actually stand a chance of re-election. Though, granted, I'm a member of the Progressives, but still. You UK fellas seem to have a mighty clusterfuck over there.

[Stacy]

This got heated quickly, lol.

 

Even though I'm worried Greens wouldn't know what to do with their power I'd rather see them put pressure on the big two poison parties, or see them at least try to shake things up a little bit, which is why they hold my vote. They distinctly advocate the advancement in social inequalities and renewable energy which I think need to be big issues right now. Granted I'm not 100% with British politics but I'd rather vote for somebody I overall agree with than abstain or vote for the lesser of two evils. 

 

Also, to set the record straight. Greens never said they'd actually put the queen in a council house, that's just propaganda. They were talking about destroying the monarchy (which I'm whatever on) and the quote was "I can't see that the Queen is ever going to be really poor, but I'm sure we can find a council house for her - we're going to build lots more". A quote taken out of context when they were making a joke over building more council houses.

 

I also find the way you discuss parties you don't agree with, Stacy, pretty downright offensive so I wouldn't be engaging in a respectful discussion with you. But this whole "anti social justice" thing you have really puzzles me. You make it sound like the Greens wanting to support social equality is almost a bad thing, and that anyone that fights in the corner of the less privileged is immediately a SJW which wants to kill white males. Which isn't true. At all. It makes it even more jarring when Trans is probably the single most oppressed group seeing violence to them and need more exposure. People asking for better exposure and overall representation on the same level of the non-privileged isn't really much to ask but you make it sound like we need to stay right where we are. Also, people like being in their individual labels and being prideful of them. Being diverse makes us human, erasing those labels erases their identities.

 

This whole "hippies" thing is about 30 years out of date too, so let's not lmao. 

 

Sorry would you prefer Hipster is that up to date with you?

 

Where did I say anyone here wanted to "kill all white males"? Well seeing as I was accused of being an MRA because it was so wrong to say we should start thinking of people as a whole and approach individual issues from a more balanced viewpoint that doesn't mock or belittle people with idiotic and condescending slogans like "What are you afraid of, Boys?".

 

How is Lemanic's attitude to men in politics better than UKIP's stance on immigrants? All these alternatives parties be it left or right want is to blame some section of society rather than focusing on the bastards that destroyed and exploited us all, the media, banks and big corporations who continue to laugh at us going round in circles like ants.

[JezMM]

Been voting green for years and will continue to do so.  They have the least wrong with them/talk about issues I'm interested in far more often than the other guys so it's as simple as that really.  They aren't perfect but they're about the only party you can say that about without someone in the room scoffing and going "you can say that again!" like you just made a hilariously major underexaggeration.

[Mogtaki]

Politics is hilarious in Scotland right now. Labour is just a big 'whatever' on the radar, but of course Jim Murphy is a walking joke so that's pretty amusing. It's a case of Labour screwed themselves up by lying throughout their campaign: "we abolished tuition fees!" yeah, but you instated 'graduate endowment fees' which was tuition fees but paid after you graduated. SNP scrapped the graduate endowment fees in 2007, not Labour. Tories are near non-existent here, I think they know Scotland is a waste of time; hell, I don't even know who is campaigning here for them. Lib Dem though? Ohhhh ho ho ho.

UKIP are trying to nosey into Scotland but it's very much a 'hell no' response from people (well, except that orange group in Glasgow, but we already know they're a bunch of racist assholes).

UK politics is a whole load of 'ehhhhh?' right now. Lies and slander thrown all over the place with them all throwing stupid comments about the other party. Greens and what not are just sitting around watching it fly with us.

[Oscillo]

I used to be annoyed that I fell just a few months short of voting at this election, but with how uninspired are the people we have to vote for? Nope, not now, I'm glad I missed this one. It was pretty funny seeing the local Conservative MP mail my entire household except my dad (for some strange reason) with flyers claiming to be researching into the local area to represent us though, as if he cared about a small left-leaning borough in a seat that's been with Labour for at least 50 consecutive years, probably considerably longer than that. I just don't care about his party at all.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Oscillo-Kaworu

[Autosaver]

I am so glad Australia actually has a competent Greens party. You UK fellas seem to have a mighty clusterfuck over there.

To be fair, Australia seems to always hit the worldnews with how fucked up their politics are right now. Even if Australia does have a "better" party, the voters aren't showing it.

[Candescence]

To be fair, Australia seems to always hit the worldnews with how fucked up their politics are right now. Even if Australia does have a "better" party, the voters aren't showing it.

[Badnik Mechanic]

So... anyone watching the big debate right now?

Highlights so far are Johnny Tudor And the Green party leaders giant ear.

[iDEATH]

I've taped it, I'll watch it tomorrow. Not that I expect to glean much from it, there's so many people on it that i can't see it being anything other than a total rammy....

[Covskin]

I've only watched the last 40 minutes. Has Farage managed to go 2 sentences without mentioning Europe/Migration at all?

 

Also, had a quick read of the BBC website coverage, Farage repeated his scaremongering over foreigners with HIV? REALLY?!

 

Obviously UKIP aren't going to win a majority but I am legitemately terrified of them getting 10 or more seats and possibly being in a coalition.

 

 

 

From BBC Live Updates

 

 

Poll result

 

Posted at 22:12

 

The final results of that YouGov poll of 1,100 people are in. Pollster Peter Kellner says SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon was the "clear winner". Plenty more polls are being carried out, but here are the YouGov scores:

 

Nicola Sturgeon 28%

Nigel Farage 20%

David Cameron 18%

Ed Miliband 15%

Nick Clegg 10%

Natalie Bennett 5%

Leanne Wood 4%

[Badnik Mechanic]

Having watched it....

 

Who won? 

 

Probably Nicola Sturgeon closely followed by Milliband. 

 

Why?

 

Well, Sutrgeon was actually really good at debating, Milliband was the only one who said "If you elect me I will do this and this and this" really to the point, as opposed to the usual answers which offer no details or substance.

 

Who lost.... 3 way tie between....

 

Cameron: Seriously why did he turn up? Clearly didn't want to be there, gave vague answers, utterly hopeless.

 

Natalie Bennett: ... .... Thank you for coming, but no thanks. Close to pointless, talked a lot about green issues and helping people, but kept quiet about that 50% tax rate that they want in. Offered no details on how they would pay for things.

 

Leanne Wood: Just give up now... She came on stage and said "I only care about Wales" then talked nothing but Wales, then ended with 'I only care about Wales." ... that's nice except you're running for a position which has to govern the whole of the UK not just a minority of it. 

[Covskin]

Leanne Wood: Just give up now... She came on stage and said "I only care about Wales" then talked nothing but Wales, then ended with 'I only care about Wales." ... that's nice except you're running for a position which has to govern the whole of the UK not just a minority of it. 

 

I don't blame her for doing that. Only people in Wales can vote for her, and they're going to want someone in Parliament making sure Welsh needs are addressed. What does she care what English/Scottish/Northern Irish people think of her, its not like they can vote against her.

[Brad]

Got round to watching the debate, finally. 

 

Bennett was way too quiet, I needed her to speak up more. I'm still in for voting for their party though at this point. Overwhelmingly the stand out was Sturgeon - she brought very strong debate skills to the table, had very strong points, and gave Farage some shit for his constant immigration point which he falls back on like it solves everything. Speaking of which, I honestly thought he was one of the worst there. Despite him having the speaking ability he comes off like a petulant child who can't whining about something over and over. It's frustrating, it's boring and that HIV part was just ridiculous. I'm glad he was called out for it.

 

Milliband and Cameron were just tossing shit at each other all night over "facts" which may or may not be true, but Labour is currently the lesser of the two evils right now for me. I liked some of the things that Clegg spoke of but I'm not sure he gave me any real reason to vote for him. And Wood just kinda... "was there"? Had very little interest in her, but that might be because I'm not a Welsh citizen... then again, I'm not a Scottish one either, and Sturgeon really stood out to me. 

 

SNP have come out as a real interest to me from this, while UKIP continued to be UKIP and the big two flung rubbish at each other for the night. I'm just sad Green didn't try take more of a spotlight here - perhaps it's just Bennett herself, while Caroline Lucas is probably a better speaker (and debater). 

[Badnik Mechanic]

Yes it's funny, and I liked it.... But... yeah, they really need to explain how exactly they're going to pay for all those extra homes, the improved NHS and actually talk about that 50% tax charge they want brought in.

 

P.S. they should totally release that song for charity.