The "What the HECK Is A 2016 Sonic" Prophecy Thread (two topics from the pre-server wipe in one!)

[Badnik Mechanic]

 

eh iirc didnt do spectacularly actually. I can problably bring up the sega 90% loss neogaf thread where the mod brings up the sales figures. 

No need I have that thread right here... http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1151016

Which is a sales period which doesn't include Sonic Generations since that thread is about the 2014-2015 financial year.

[Marcello]

Didn't the 3DS version outsell the other versions?

[Badnik Mechanic]

Didn't the 3DS version outsell the other versions?

So their financial reports claim, however nobody knows for sure since according to publicly accessible sales data for Steam charts, Generations has sold over 575,000 units on PC alone. Yet that information sure as hell hasn't been included in any of their reports. 

Also look at trophy tracking data for Generations, there's no way those reports are accurate in the slightest.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Hogfather

[pppp]

" but sega, haven't you been doing that for like the past... few years and no one has bitten infact less people are buying the games. And aren't there a whole section of folks who grew up dreamcast/gcn/gba era? Isn't that extremely short sighted , also completely ignoring sales figures? "

" but... here's classic sonic"

" i don't think anyone cares, I don't think they cared when you literally put him in a game 5 years ago." 

 

Like I've been saying for a while, SEGA dug themselves into a hole they can never truly get out of. There's way too many diverging views in and outside the fanbase on what direction Sonic should go. Their inability to keep the series consistent killed it, and it's only possible to please 1/5 of people that like Sonic, it's definitely impossible to please at least 3/5.

Personally I think they should try to capture the level design philosophy of the classics like they did with Modern Gens(I honestly don't think today's Sonic Team is capable of creating a polished Lost World or recreating the Adventure gameplay style properly, the sad thing is that when compared to other developers out there, Sonic Team is mediocre at best) while trying to tell a story akin to the Satam stuff, since I still think having realistic humans in Sonic doesn't mesh. This is the most widely appealing idea I have for a direction the series can take, since I believe satisfies most of the requirements, better story/world building, consistent and good gameplay, and both the story and gameplay directions are something that mainstream gaming people liked(Doug Walker grew up with Nintendo and yet he still loves Satam). And yet I'm sure a huge number of people here on SSMB disagree with my idea of where they should take the series, proving my point: The series is doomed to never satisfy most audiences. I would love to be proven wrong by SEGA, but I just don't think it's gonna happen.

[Milo]

 

Like I've been saying for a while, SEGA dug themselves into a hole they can never truly get out of. There's way too many diverging views in and outside the fanbase on what direction Sonic should go. Their inability to keep the series consistent killed it, and it's only possible to please 1/5 of people that like Sonic, it's definitely impossible to please at least 3/5.

...

And yet I'm sure a huge number of people here on SSMB disagree with my idea of where they should take the series, proving my point: The series is doomed to never satisfy most audiences.

I think the idea that Sonic needs to please "most audiences" to survive is partially responsible for Sega digging the hole in the first place. Everytime they cultivate an audience with a specific formula with Sonic they end up dropping it after a few years for the sake of making a new formula that will appeal to new fans. The famous quote goes that if you try to please everyone you end up pleasing nobody. They wouldn't be in this mess if they knew when and where to stick to the series' roots, and when and where to try new things.

[McGroose]

Can we just get a fully 3D game for once? Please? That's all I ask. I don't care if you use Classic Sonic, Modern Sonic or any other fucking Sonic, I just want a game that's almost completely 3D with maybe very few exceptions of 2D sprinkled in the game.  I'm so sick of all of the 2D sections in the newer Sonic games. Colors and Lost World are both pretty much 50-60% 2D. Generations is probably 2/3 2D because of Classic Sonic and the 2D parts of Modern Sonic. If I wanted 2D in a Sonic game, I'd play a Classic Sonic game. Hell, I enjoy playing Sonic 4 more than I do the 2D parts of the games like Lost World and Colors.

Also, how about some 3D underwater sections with regular Sonic? The Drill wisp controlled like ass underwater in 3D, so I don't really think that counts.

Edited December 22, 2015 by McGroose

[JezMM]

Can we just get a fully 3D game for once? Please? That's all I ask. I don't care if you use Classic Sonic, Modern Sonic or any other fucking Sonic, I just want a game that's almost completely 3D with maybe very few exceptions of 2D sprinkled in the game.  I'm so sick of all of the 2D sections in the newer Sonic games. Generations and Lost World are both pretty much 50-60% 2D. Generations is probably 2/3 2D because of Classic Sonic and the 2D parts of Modern Sonic. If I wanted 2D in a Sonic game, I'd play a Classic Sonic game. Hell, I enjoy playing Sonic 4 more than I do the 2D parts of the games like Lost World and Colors.

Also, how about some 3D underwater sections with regular Sonic? The Drill wisp controlled like ass underwater in 3D, so I don't really think that counts.

3D underwater Sonic finally debuted in the 3DS version of Lost World.  It was unremarkable but nice.  I'd like to see them do it properly.

[Milo]

Can we just get a fully 3D game for once? Please? That's all I ask. I don't care if you use Classic Sonic, Modern Sonic or any other fucking Sonic, I just want a game that's almost completely 3D with maybe very few exceptions of 2D sprinkled in the game.  I'm so sick of all of the 2D sections in the newer Sonic games. Generations and Lost World are both pretty much 50-60% 2D. Generations is probably 2/3 2D because of Classic Sonic and the 2D parts of Modern Sonic. If I wanted 2D in a Sonic game, I'd play a Classic Sonic game. Hell, I enjoy playing Sonic 4 more than I do the 2D parts of the games like Lost World and Colors.

Also, how about some 3D underwater sections with regular Sonic? The Drill wisp controlled like ass underwater in 3D, so I don't really think that counts.

I wouldn't be bothered with the 2D levels so much if they didn't seem to be designed purely as filler material to make up for a lack of 3D segments/levels. A lot of the level design for 2D levels in recent games I feel are rather plain and uninspired, with a large amount of linear "block platforming" that wouldn't be out of place in a Mario game. They come off as more of a case of the developers needing to pad the game out for length, rather than the developers wanted to do something interesting with the level theme in a 2D perspective. Classic Sonic's levels in Generations were the only time I feel this wasn't the case, and even then all that did was make me yearn for a pure 2D classic Sonic game more.

3D underwater Sonic finally debuted in the 3DS version of Lost World.  It was unremarkable but nice.  I'd like to see them do it properly.

IIRC Sonic Adventure did had some underwater areas for some levels. Sonic Adventure 2 too, technically (Knuckles/Rouge levels).

[Tenko]

I do find the irony delicious tho, conversations in the past where fans of the older original series were told things like "Get over it, the classic style and 2D are gone, Sonic has changed, you just have to deal with it!". Then to see the outcry when Boom was first announced, when people thought it may be the "new" Sonic. Then currently, the responses from the more modern/adventure orientated bunch throughout the internets decrying the possible return of a classic title done by Sonic Team themselves and all this percieved "nostalgia pandering" during an anniversary for crying out loud. It seems like perhaps those that once told the older fans to "deal with where the series goes, things change" etc should be taking a bit of their own medicine about now.

On another note tho, I wonder if Taxman or Stealth have been asked to help out with anything for the anniversary? It's kind of sad when two fans have a better classic engine and knowledge of what makes an exciting 2D Sonic game than the original creators and owners themselves >.<

[Chris Knopps]

Keep in mind folks, never said it was a bad game. Never mentioned how it sold. I said it had too high a budget for such a short experience basically and it was underwhelming. No idea why those arguments came into play. Those are unnecessary retorts that brought about unnecessary debates about things unrelated to my comment.

Also Tenko, Tax and Stealth are not Japanese so Sonic Team won't work with them like that.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Chris Knopps

[JezMM]

IIRC Sonic Adventure did had some underwater areas for some levels. Sonic Adventure 2 too, technically (Knuckles/Rouge levels).

Very much technicalities with no real bearing though. The pool in Twinkle Park was about the only underwater section that you couldn't jump right out of instantly, and even then there was a spring to the same effect.

Lost World 3DS is the first and only time we've had any substantial underwater content, in 3D, with Sonic (not Knux/Rouge's swimming), and the traditional gameplay of hunting one air bubble to the next.

[Tenko]

One more reason why Hydrocity should have been a DLC level for Generations. Sega so missed the boat on that one. Like Hogfather said, people across the globe were wanting to throw money at Sega for DLC levels for Generations, yet they did nothing. Just like they missed the boat when freemium games took off in the west and were a pretty big fad, yet they dragged their feet with PSO2. Now they would be lucky to sell it outside the fans of the series and those fed up with their current MMO.

They seem to excel at missing opportunities that are even blatently obvious to those not in the industry in recent years really.

[FantasticMrRobb]

We want it to play like the Genesis games.... the playstyle that got so many people to love Sonic. Thats what we want. We dont care if its 2.5D.

Speak for yourself, I'm still holding out for another adventure-like game.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Speak for yourself, I'm still holding out for another adventure-like game.

I was kinda speaking on what most fans wanted, that was all

[Ripe]

I was kinda speaking on what most fans wanted, that was all

Honestly, what most of the fans want? I have no idea...

[Bolt]

Well I certainly wouldn't care for another classic/nostalgia based game...

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Honestly, what most of the fans want? I have no idea...

The fans know what they want, its just Sonic Team likes to cherrypick at what they want.... so that is why they are so unsatisfied with the series. 

[Ripe]

The fans know what they want, its just Sonic Team likes to cherrypick at what they want.... so that is why they are so unsatisfied with the series. 

I personally disagree, every fan has their own preference but they are so different. I mean, just ask about which is more important: speed or platforming. Even with that question there is major differences between fans. How are you suppose to make a game that pleases majority (granted, SEGA seems to only listen a certain group of fanbase, like classic purist)?

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I personally disagree, every fan has their own preference but they are so different. I mean, just ask about which is more important: speed or platforming. Even with that question there is major differences between fans. How are you suppose to make a game that pleases majority (granted, SEGA seems to only listen a certain group of fanbase, like classic purist)?

I would be surprised if Sega can please anyone at this point. Also the classic purists dont just want Green Hill Zone and remember this type of games, but they actually want a game where Sonic plays like in heyday.... you know the way he played that got people to love him, how he became so famous. So they werent listning to classic fans, just certian things they said. 

Fans are pretty much sick of the nostilga pandering and the half hearted attempts to cash in on nostoilga and actually want a Sonic game thats orginal that reminds people why Sonic is so loved. But at that rate with all the half ass promises from them, we probably arent gonna have a game like that everytime soon which is why places like Sonic Retro exists. 

[Marcello]

Golly, I wonder what they'll call Green Hill this time.

I'd like a new game with gameplay like the classics, but SEGA has tried multiple times and have failed each time at replicating it, so I wouldn't actually trust them with that.

What I really want is a game with Sonic's Adventure gameplay, though. Other playable characters that play like Sonic + their own abilities as with Sonic 3. That's a pipe dream at this point, though.

[McGroose]

If Sega decides to make a 2D classic style Sonic game, I would actually be O.K. with that, but I'd definitely be much more critical and analytical of whatever footage, screenshots or descriptions of the game we're given. It'll be able to easily detect what looks good and what's obviously bullshit because of our past experiences with Segas 2D games from S4E1 and onward, so we could quickly call them out on anything bad we see. 

[Nepenthe]

They should just take SA1's code and fix it up/approximate it. It would skip all of the nitpicking that will happen as a result of them trying to recapture the style of games that has been overanalyzed to death, it would use a decent 3D approximation of classic physics, it would actually be in 3D, and it would make me happiest. That latter point is especially important. xP

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

They should just take SA1's code and fix it up/approximate it. It would skip all of the nitpicking that will happen as a result of them trying to recapture the style of games that has been overanalyzed to death, it would use a decent 3D approximation of classic physics, it would actually be in 3D, and it would make me happiest. That latter point is especially important. xP

yeah to be honest SA1 was the best 3D gameplay for Sonic and the one all futre games should follow

[Tenko]

I think people tend to mix their personal opinion with fact which doesn't help either, that their flavourite period or game in Sonic's history was the most popular with fans or has the most potential.

In saying that tho, I think it's pretty safe to say (regardless of my well known favourites) that the reason Sonic Team keep coming back to the classic era is that it was by far the most popular period for the little blue rodent. Yes Adventure was popular, and plenty of fans cry out for a new entry, but compared to his popularity in the early to mid point of the 90's the Adventure era can't really stand up to that.

You can't really blame them for continually looking back to the most popular point in his history for ideas to try bring that popularity back. Plus like I said, it's an anniversary, a pretty big one too, if there wasn't at least some looking back, or nostalgia pandering, be it merch or game related then it wouldn't be much of an anniversary would it?

I think what slightly annoys some fans is Sonic Team Japan, or Team A, have gone straight from one anniversary game loaded with nostalgia to what appears so far to be another anniversary game with nostalgia elements.

[Nepenthe]

Sonic was popular for reasons beyond his gameplay that are completely out of Sonic Team's control, namely the fads and defining characteristics of video games in the 90s versus today. You will be hard-pressed to find a significant amount of people who understand the franchise's intricacies to voice what they want beyond the type of pandering that we've been getting. We're also missing key people and development environments that facilitated the development of these games anyway, and the people who are still there are riddled with age that makes it difficult to repeat past performances.

The likelihood of us getting a game that does the classics justice is pretty much zero. The likelihood of them even recapturing the popularity of Sonic in his heyday when people don't give two shits about platformers in general is a solid zero. If they were capable of putting out a worthy successor by now regardless of any ulterior motives to put Sonic back on top I would at least see the point. But we can't even get that. As far as I'm concerned, we're stuck with thematically and mechanically empty games and people are perfectly okay with that because omg Green Hill.