Super Smash Brothers Tournament Discussion

[VO.SUPER]

At least Armada won. With this bad Nintendo news happening, it's good something is going a good way here. 

[Blitz 'n Burst]

Damn. So much for Return of the King. A beam sword and a stitch face. God damn.

 

Guess my money's on Armada now, at least until M2K comes back in 20XX with his brand new Captain Falcon to kick Fox off the top tier

[Lady Soniko]

Holy shit this fucking intense, come on Armada you got this...

[SilentDoom]

Mango takes the victory!

[Lady Soniko]

Uuuughhhh nnnooOOonOOoooo....

 

*whine*

[VO.SUPER]

Ah. Armada really did prove himself though. He once again brings the game all the way to it's fifth round leaving you speechless.

 

He really should've chased Mango more when he was trying to firefox his way back onto the edge. Peach has the stronger recovery game.

[SuperLink]

Aww Armada played good, but that final match left something to be desired. Either way I don't think people will be forgetting him anytime soon, and it was amazin' to see so many of the Big 5 in top form again.

[Lady Soniko]

I just think Fox is a cheap as fuck character with how fast he can rack up blaster damage and camping it just pisses me off that he's top tier.

 

 

Would of been cool if Armada went Fox and Mango when Falco as a sort of grudge match, winner takes all deal.

[VO.SUPER]

So what did you think of the tourney huh guys? 

 

I admit, it was some great stuff going on all the way through. I didn't expect things to heat up so much with more upsets than I imagined, and Armada making it to second.

[SuperLink]

Overall super entertaining stuff, and Smash finally making a return to MLG after all this time gives me hope that Smash will get more tournament exposure in the near future too, especially if Nintendo are actually backing on some level (do we know if Melee at MLG was Nintendo backed or anything?)

 

Also more big turnouts and stuff might make Nintendo more keen to get a competitive scene for SSB4 aswell, all in all a good thing.

[Lady Soniko]

I thought it was a great experience to hype over, literally felt like my heart stopped in some moments I couldn't believe, Amsa did some insane Yoshi shit that made the crowd go wild man, and it's so good to see Peach kicking ass.

[VO.SUPER]

I just think Fox is a cheap as fuck character with how fast he can rack up blaster damage and camping it just pisses me off that he's top tier.

 

 

Would of been cool if Armada went Fox and Mango when Falco as a sort of grudge match, winner takes all deal.

 

Oh yeah, Fox is incredibly cheap in the hands of great players. That uptilt of his is monstrous, and that laser game is simply ridiculous in how much damage it racks up. He is able to just walk circles around you so easily. 

 

You'd think his weak upsmash would really hamper him, but heavens no it doesn't. 

[SilentDoom]

I'm still sad aMSa didn't go further :<  Axe though, put on a powerful performance.  I was expecting either PPMD or Armada to take it.  But my gosh was that MLG full of hype.  Welcome home Melee :')

[Blitz 'n Burst]

The only reason aMSa even did so well is people being unfamiliar with Yoshi. People say he needs more experience but honestly I think that's only going to hurt him in the long run. The more he plays, the more people will adapt. That's why so many of his sets started with a 2-0 lead but still ended with him losing, because players were able to figure him out and adapt to it.

[VO.SUPER]

The only reason aMSa even did so well is people being unfamiliar with Yoshi. People say he needs more experience but honestly I think that's only going to hurt him in the long run. The more he plays, the more people will adapt. That's why so many of his sets started with a 2-0 lead but still ended with him losing, because players were able to figure him out and adapt to it.

 

You could argue the same for Peach and Puff when they were being developed in the metagame. And all the same, the person is still what matters the most here.

 

Plus, take into consideration how he got here to MLG. It takes a lot of skill to get here in the first place so it's not like he didn't have the talent to play it with the big guys. 

[Blitz 'n Burst]

Not saying he's a bad player, because he certainly isn't.. Just that the people he was playing against aren't near as accustomed to playing against Yoshi as they are to other top-tiers, and that definitely contributed to his victory a great deal. You can see it in his matches. People don't know Yoshi as well as they do top-tier characters, they don't know the matchup well enough or know his playstyle. But the people he's playing against are quick to adapt regardless of what they're up against and more than capable of turning the tables against him.

 

Not that any of this really matters and he isn't free to play the game however he wants. I just feel like a lot of people vastly overestimating him.

[VO.SUPER]

Not saying he's a bad player, because he certainly isn't.. Just that the people he was playing against aren't near as accustomed to playing against Yoshi as they are to other top-tiers, and that definitely contributed to his victory a great deal. You can see it in his matches. People don't know Yoshi as well as they do top-tier characters, they don't know the matchup well enough or know his playstyle. But the people he's playing against are quick to adapt regardless of what they're up against and more than capable of turning the tables against him.

 

Not that any of this really matters and he isn't free to play the game however he wants. I just feel like a lot of people vastly overestimating him.

 

Well that's the thing; he's using an unfamiliar character and very rarely comes to America to play. So he isn't accustomed to our players playstyle. It's not like Armada who's had years to practice with us, aMSa is pretty new to the scene all things considered. 

[SuperLink]

Yeah the reason you don't get players coming out of nowhere and coming in top placings is because players are more likely to rise with experience against high level players. A player who hasn't played against the world's best Foxes and Falcos before isn't going to place highly in their first major tournament appearances, instead they're more likely to get higher and higher after playing at that level of play. After all it's widely known that the best way to improve at high level play is to actually play against high level players, aMSa playing at these tournaments is the best chance he's got of infiltrating the top ranks, especially since one person using Yoshi amazingly isn't going to give everyone a knowledge of how that Yoshi works. aMSa won't be an easy counter so long as he keeps practising.

[Emerald Chaos]

aMSa seemed to lose a lot of steam in the matches he played and had trouble finishing off stocks that were practically free. But I think he's gonna learn his lesson and come back stronger next time.

As for Mango taking the tournament, congrats to him, but I REALLY think Peach is holding Armada back right now, as sad as I am to say it. You could plainly see that the matchup is fundamentally unbalanced in Fox's favour. It didn't really feel so much that Armada was getting outplayed, more than Mango was just playing Fox and winning.

 

I think Armada should look into a secondary to counter Fox again. This tourney cements Marth as a Fox counter in my eyes, I've thought that for a while, but this makes me sure. Mango's says he can't used Fox against M2K and has to use Falco. Leffen as much as I dislike him, is really smart and seems to think that Fox can't beat Marth and PPMD took a single game from Mango this tourney and he did it in the Marth-Fox matchup.

I've seen Armada play Marth in the past and he looked really solid as him, unlike Fox who has years worth of techskill to catch up on, Marth isn't anywhere near as technical and wouldn't require as much work to sharpen up. IMO, Armada should look to work on his Marth to counter Foxes in the future. His Peach can handle almost everything else.

[VO.SUPER]

Yes, Mango does have a bit of an edge mostly because he is Fox, but Armada has schooled players who play as Fox before, it's just Mango's Fox that gives his Peach the most grief. And it's not like the fight was incredibly uneven. Armada beat Mango before the grand final, and took him to game 5 each time they fought, so it's not a completely wasted effort to stay as Peach. 

[SuperLink]

That and it was pretty clear to see that Armada's skill was waning in some of those final matches, people know he's capable of a lot better. Plus Mango was really on top of his game, a lot more than he was the previous day, he was really thoroughly solid throughout the grand finals in terms of concentration where Armada kept on messing up on combos, edge guarding and took way too many risky trade hits for KOs that allowed % to rack up quickly rather than playing defensively when was needed.

 

A large part of performance esp in a game like Smash is the state of mind the player is in, sometimes you play flawlessly and sometimes the smallest mistake can distract you and send your concentration spiralling somewhat, and I think Armada spiralled a little towards the conclusion of the final set.

 

I don't really think Peach is holding him back, his frequent errors from concentration difficulty in the finals make me think he may not have won regardless of which chara he used.

[VO.SUPER]

http://smashboards.com/threads/wynton-progducto-smith-to-retire-from-commentary-after-evo.359337/

 

Ace commentator Wynton "progducto" Smith has been a mainstay of the SSBM community for several years, but recently he has been thrust even more heavily into the spotlight, commentating at the Smash Invitational @ E3, MLG Anaheim and the upcoming CEO and EVO 2014 events. During MLG Anaheim, many noticed his absence during points of the tournament. It turns out that these absences were health-related.

 

 

Progducto recently sat down with OnGamers to talk about Smash Brothers, the community, and where he sees himself fitting into it all, and one thing is clear: prog does not plan to return to casting major tournaments for the foreseeable future. As someone who has played a large role in the revitalization of competitive Smash Brothers, it is tough to see a man of his caliber be forced to take a step back from the community, but progducto has made it clear that he hopes to be a part of the community in whatever capacity he can.

 

 

 

He's confirmed that it isn't due to colon cancer, (thank goodness) but it is something, so I wish the man the best of luck. He really is a talented commentator. 

[MegasonicZX]

Didn't watch the video but its sad to hear that prog is leaving, he's one of the best commentators ever and it feels like a shame that he has to leave because of his health, I wish him the best at what he will possibly do next.

[SilentDoom]

CEO was this weekend and there was quite a bit of Smash play for both Melee and Project M.  CT ZeRo ended up taking Project M, whilst Armada took Melee.  Hopefully sets will be uploaded somewhere like Youtube soon.

[Blitz 'n Burst]

I wish I knew the name of the music pack that was used for Project M