Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[Jolt_TH]

I read through a couple pages of that link above, and what I find really funny is someone giving Ken some friendly advice about differentiating the LSC echidnas from Sonic echidnas (other than spelling). And then he pretty much plugs his ears like a child and goes on about how its his creative work and it is up to him to decide how to draw them abs no one is going to change his mind.

Shame because the sample drawings the poster provided were really good, I'd actually love to see them in a comic, Penders or otherwise.

[Delta Starfire]

I read through a couple pages of that link above, and what I find really funny is someone giving Ken some friendly advice about differentiating the LSC echidnas from Sonic echidnas (other than spelling). And then he pretty much plugs his ears like a child and goes on about how its his creative work and it is up to him to decide how to draw them abs no one is going to change his mind.

Shame because the sample drawings the poster provided were really good, I'd actually love to see them in a comic, Penders or otherwise.

 

All of that is true, of course. But there's a more gracious way in which you can respond to constructive criticism. From the sounds of it, he's got the emotional maturity of a petulant child. 

[Tenko]

Also holy fucking shit, that thing with Mega Collection. I can't believe he's seriously considering taking legal action against something like that. I'm trying to wrap my head around why he might think this is a bad thing. Was he not aware of the game showcasing his artwork for so long?.

Yeah I'm pretty sure the Mega Collection thing was just him trying to further stir the pot during the Chronicles case. He never ended up following through because of the outcome of said case.

From what little we got to see of the outcome, part of it was that his bid for compensation for Chronicles was thrown out as he had taken far to long to bring up his grievance. Also being that the game was released in 2008 and was over 5 years old at the time of his court battle, any form of money compensation would be impossible due to the game not being in print anymore and all financial records of the games profit at the time were long gone (which was brilliant karma considering his "missing contract" stuff from the Archie case). Once he knew there was no money gain possible he dropped the case like hot butter.

Basically with Mega Collection being released in 2002 and being over 10 years old...there isn't a show in hell he would be able to get any compensation when a case regarding a "newer" game was thrown out. He would just be wasting his time and money. And if there's one thing Penders wants its easy money, he wouldn't waste it on a lost cause even with whatever mental condition he has.

[biznizz]

Question, in the Mega Collection, was it just the covers, or were there actual exerpts from the comics inside, which includeds Penders' page work?

 

Because if it's the latter, than I can see (OK, not really, but in a warped way) how BobR & Ken can think it's stealing artwork.

 

If it's the former, with it just being covers? ...The Sonic Wkias have scans of those covers, because they are the most public facet of a comic! And even taking the wikis out, it's still possible to find photos or cover scans all over the damn internet. And even in a file-sharing way, I mean in back catalogues, seller websites, etc.

 

Different topic: Ken, last I check, has let his ego admit that he's tied up most of his cash in his current projects, likw TLSC. It's like watching a complusive gambler put the deed to his house on the line for a dog race. And, if they're sane, everyone knows that Lara-Su isn't going to come close to winning for him.

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

There are some issues in Mega Collection, but they're extremely early ones, like #1-5 or something. All the rest is covers.

 

I'm not exactly sure what he would've done even if it were the case, though. Sonic is SEGA's, they can do what they like with him. Maybe you might say something about the Echidnas, maybe, but Sonic is Sonic, and Penders has as much right as Joe Quesada has to Spider-Man.

[Zaysho]

Question, in the Mega Collection, was it just the covers, or were there actual exerpts from the comics inside, which includeds Penders' page work?

 

Because if it's the latter, than I can see (OK, not really, but in a warped way) how BobR & Ken can think it's stealing artwork.

 

If it's the former, with it just being covers? ...The Sonic Wkias have scans of those covers, because they are the most public facet of a comic! And even taking the wikis out, it's still possible to find photos or cover scans all over the damn internet. And even in a file-sharing way, I mean in back catalogues, seller websites, etc.

 

It was covers (the GCN version had up to the first 100 or so, I believe and only for the main series) and a "reprint" of the "Sonic Firsts" Super Special, which featured the first appearances of Sonic, Bunnie, Super Sonic, and Knuckles (the latter story being written by Penders and Kanterovich). The funny thing is, this collection was released when he was still in Archie's employ, and I would think he'd have known (though it's not like Archie or SEGA ever thought they needed some freelancer's OK anyway, since up until very recently, that was their property).

[biznizz]

So aside from VERY, VERY public cover art collection that a quick Google search can bring up, the only thing that Ken could reasonably claim was a co-written story that he didn't even do that art for? Because unless he gets Dave Manak to join him, Ken wouldn't even have a snowball's chance to sue, especially given that in that story segment, there was no creation that Ken created or had the expectaion to own.

 

...Has anyone confirmed that BobR & Ken aren't the same person? Because I doubt Ken could find a real life Snively on his own that would spend actual time & dedication for said cause. Or that BobR is, like, Ken's son or someone.

[Zaysho]

So aside from VERY, VERY public cover art collection that a quick Google search can bring up, the only thing that Ken could reasonably claim was a co-written story that he didn't even do that art for? Because unless he gets Dave Manak to join him, Ken wouldn't even have a snowball's chance to sue, especially given that in that story segment, there was no creation that Ken created or had the expectaion to own.

 

...Has anyone confirmed that BobR & Ken aren't the same person? Because I doubt Ken could find a real life Snively on his own that would spend actual time & dedication for said cause. Or that BobR is, like, Ken's son or someone.

The only reason he could stake a claim to that story is, by the logic he presented the copyright office, he "created something from nothing" when he wrote the script(never mind it was an adaptation of SEGA's game...). Not to mention I'm pretty sure he had many of his co-writers defer their rights to him when he filed. Dave Manak technically could've filed for the pencil art like what Scott Shaw did.

[biznizz]

It make you wonder, just how did Ken convince his collaborators to giving him sole custody of any copyrights to the work and if, after all the Pendering the big man has done, if they regret it?

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

It make you wonder, just how did Ken convince his collaborators to giving him sole custody of any copyrights to the work and if, after all the Pendering the big man has done, if they regret it?

 

From all accounts the guy is nice enough in person, and if his online activity is any indication he certainly has a habit of trying to put a spin on anything. Put those two together, and stick them with something like an apathy to your prior work or bitterness towards Archie, and you get a rather hard person to turn down.

[Delta Starfire]

It make you wonder, just how did Ken convince his collaborators to giving him sole custody of any copyrights to the work and if, after all the Pendering the big man has done, if they regret it?

Pendering. If that hasn't already got into the popular lexicon for this kind of lawsuit, it damn well ought to!

[AzureHedgehog]

This is dumb.

 

So basically, the whole story is like.....

 

[biznizz]

Ken's still going on about fair use of Holocaust terminology & crap over on his Twitter.

[FriendBot]

He's practically dodging the question and states some next level stuff that's not answering the question! He used a poem, from the Holocaust times mid you, explicitly and didn't gave proper credit. That alone should debunk any defense against it.

[SonikkuForever]

I wonder, first of all, why anyone's even bothering to provoke him anymore. I then wonder why Ken is wasting his time stooping to their level and arguing with them over Twitter. Immaturity all around.

[VO.SUPER]

I wonder, first of all, why anyone's even bothering to provoke him anymore. I then wonder why Ken is wasting his time stooping to their level and arguing with them over Twitter. Immaturity all around.

 

Because there's a point where most folks crack. At first he tried to avoid being rude in his comments, and probably thought he had a legit silent majority on his side and if he kept a good image, he'd have more people on his side in spite of all the crap he stirred up. After a certain point then, people just break under great deals of stress and start getting nastier and nastier. Especially if they've gotten themselves in a bind with already bad PR.

[Zaysho]

I wonder, first of all, why anyone's even bothering to provoke him anymore. I then wonder why Ken is wasting his time stooping to their level and arguing with them over Twitter. Immaturity all around.

 

1) Because he constantly needs to remind everyone that he was "right" and that he was the only creative that ever worked on the Sonic book worth giving a damn about.

 

2) Because professionalism went out the window three years ago when this nonsense started and he can't take criticism.

 

Honestly, the only thing I can applaud him for after is slamming that asshole that referred to inking as tracing last week (and the man's a competent inker if nothing else--not on Gary Martin's level obviously though), but one instance in a sea of idiotic, contradictory statements and generally unprofessional practices over the last three/four years isn't much.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

You forgot that he basically ruined 20 years of comic history and forced Archie make a new one.

[Zaysho]

You forgot that he basically ruined 20 years of comic history and forced Archie make a new one.

 

But in his mind, he's done nothing wrong and believes that all blame for the reboot and everything else that's transpired should solely be laid at Archie's feet. I actually think that falls under his attitude that he was "right" all along.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

But in his mind, he's done nothing wrong and believes that all blame for the reboot and everything else that's transpired should solely be laid at Archie's feet. I actually think that falls under his attitude that he was "right" all along.

I think that falls more under hypocrite than anything.

[Zaysho]

I think that falls more under hypocrite than anything.

 

True, that. But hey, I never said he wasn't a hypocrite, did I (the plagiarism immediately comes to mind)?

[biznizz]

Everytime Kenders mentions Kirby, I want to vomit.  Ken (no matter how much he lies through his teeth) KNEW his stuff wasn't work for hire, and whereas Jack & his family were royally shafted, Ken managed to brute force what HE wanted. Where the hell is justice in this world?

 

Kirby himself would hate Ken, if only for any misguided attempt to "inlude Kirbyisms" or even "Lee-isms". Jack himself said he hated when people tried to mimic him than try their own style.

 

Nevermind Ken saying it was alright for him to use the Holocaust references because "the publishers at the time were Jewish".

[Zaysho]

Everytime Kenders mentions Kirby, I want to vomit.  Ken (no matter how much he lies through his teeth) KNEW his stuff wasn't work for hire, and whereas Jack & his family were royally shafted, Ken managed to brute force what HE wanted. Where the hell is justice in this world?

 

Kirby himself would hate Ken, if only for any misguided attempt to "inlude Kirbyisms" or even "Lee-isms". Jack himself said he hated when people tried to mimic him than try their own style.

 

Nevermind Ken saying it was alright for him to use the Holocaust references because "the publishers at the time were Jewish".

I think Kirby would be even more enraged over Penders walking away with his blasted knock-off characters (and I don't mean that they were ONLY Sonic knock-offs) while he couldn't see a dime for all the original work he created. Honestly, I think Penders messed up the creators' rights game for everyone, especially considering how uppity people like Scott Shaw are now (no, Shaw, your work on a licensed comic book doesn't belong to you. Stop acting like this is a big fucking surprise).

And, oh man, that comment about the publishers... I honestly don't think they ever saw what was going to print because they assumed Gabrie was doing his fucking job (he wasn't) or expecting SEGA to catch something (they didn't). Otherwise, I seriously think that whole arc/issue wouldn't have seen print in the first place. I've actually heard the way Archie was managed around that time is completely different than it is now, so I wouldn't be too surprised if the publishers at the time were just as lax as everyone else in the company.

[Delta Starfire]

It occurs to me that Ken Penders thinks he is Alan Moore. He so isn't.

[biznizz]

I'd give Moore more respect than I'd ever do for Penders. And I really, REALLY don't like Moore very much.*

 

Hell, I'd give Frank F'king Miller more respect than I'd give Penders. And Frank Miller was the guy who claimed he was the one who "gave Batman his balls back". And Miller frikkin' wrote "Holy Terror!"

 

*As a professional. Like some of his stuff, never met him in person.