Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[Celestia]

also when you think about it it kinda makes them the good guys - i mean wouldn't you try to reclaim your planet if it was taken over by a different species?

Um, no.

 

I mean, if the species was evil or something, sure. But the anthros weren't doing anything bad, and were, in fact, completely welcoming to Robotnik as far as anyone can tell. The whole thing doesn't make him more sympathetic, if anything it just makes him even more of an asshole for taking over and (essentially, depending on how you look at roboticization) killing a bunch of sentient beings simply because "Well, this used to be my people's world, and obviously that's the way it's supposed to be! Even though they seem fine on their own. And they don't mind me being around. Shut up and get in the roboticizer."

[Mania Pipe]

Ah, I remember we had a topic that covered his proposed movie and saw these shots before. It's no wonder SEGA kept telling him no if this was the work he was handing them. Maybe if he had commissioned Spaz to draw these scenes, at least his pitch would've looked good, even if the movie is shit and was just furry Star Wars/Trek.

 

Yeesh, that third picture. The composition just feels so cramped and some of the tangents in that picture keep the perspective from making sense. I see what he's going for, but it just doesn't work. And everything seems so stiff. Granted, I'm no perspective king, but it scares me that a professional who's been in the game this long is making the same mistakes an idiot like me is making in his pictures... well, I guess that's how connections work, I suppose.

 

How long ago was Penders' Sonic movie proposed?

[Your Vest Friend]

I think this all occured around the turn of the millenium or something.

[Dejimon11]

I think this all occured around the turn of the millenium or something.

Yeah around that

[Your Vest Friend]

In which case...with all due respect, this was doomed to fail from the start.

[Big Panda]

Are this movie and the Knuckles movie he wanted to pitch to DreamWorks the same, or are they seperate?

[Gabz Girl]

I think they are the same movie, or maybe the Knuckles one was an early idea. I can see why nobody wanted to do the movie though. With that yucky "concept art" and the fact SEGA has to agree with the whole thing, it would have been a mess.

[Zaysho]

Yeah, but at least SatAM's backstory didn't involve enternally vengeful aliens who apparently didn't know what the fallout to their own weapons do. It also gives unwarrented sympathy to the Robotniks just because they're the last humans.

 

At least the comic had other humans/humanoids to balance out and show that the whole bunch wasn't rotten (though not for Penders' lack of trying...). As it was planned in the show, it makes the whole "human/technology bad, nature & Mobians good" even more blatant & worse if it's just the two last humans ever.

 

In a way, I prefer what Archie did even though that whole back story concocted by Penders and Bollers was a huge, tangled mess. I remember when I dropped the book and learned about some of these things... I couldn't follow it. Made worse when they decided that "Overlanders" and "Humans" are separate species, an idea that was hardly consistent to begin with. I did like the idea of the Xorda though, even if I never got to see any major pay off for them and if Flynn had been allowed, I'd have loved to see something of their war with the Black Arms in the old continuity. Granted, it borders on the ridiculous sci-fi crap that got shoehorned into the book around the 70-ish mark, but I'd have liked to have seen a competent writer do something with them, even if they just got wiped out by the Black Arms.

 

Out of curiosity, I read somewhere that Nate Morgan wasn't actually created in the comics but was planned for the SatAM series had the third season happened, is that true (I think Penders actually mentioned the series bible)? If so, maybe Hurst and the others planned to do more with other humans in the future, since just having Robotnik and Snivley as the last humans that abuse technology and destroy nature is a little too Captain Planet (or a little too Stephen Murphy, if what I've read about Archie's TMNT comic is any indication).

 

 

How long ago was Penders' Sonic movie proposed?

 

I think VEDJ-F is about right. But I think he also made several pitches to SEGA licensing beyond that, which were intended as anniversary projects. I seem to remember in one interview he mentioned that he had made a pitch in, like, 2007 for what would be a 20th anniversary film, but obviously that didn't happen (and it's just as well).

[Big Panda]

Yes, Nate Morgan originated from the old SatAM bible. Except I think he was a Mobian originally.

[Vertekins]

Here's the interview that gives the low-down on the whole falafel regarding Penders stabbing Ben Hurst in the back regarding the movie pitch. Now I for one can't personally say that I ever wanted SatAM/Archie to hit the big screen because they are not primarily what this franchise is about and especially NOT in the form of Penders' hilariously terrible vision but I still can't help but feel pissed off at just how much of a devious backstabber Penders is;
 

I did consult with DIC to see if there was a way to generate some enthusiasm for a feature film to be the "Third Season" of SatAm. I was given the name of a SEGA executive and had a most pleasant conversation. She had to go to a meeting, but said she would like to talk to me more about the idea.

The next day, I got a call from Ken Penders, who had been alerted by his contact in their office that I was interested in getting a Sonic movie going. I generously offered to include him in the effort and told him my strategy. Get SEGA to become invested in the idea by hiring us to interview their creative game designers, execs, etc and see if we could develop a story line that would fulfill the third season - and simultaneously give them creative ideas to develop new games. A win-win, situation.

Then, I called SEGA back, but I was shocked when the exec "lit" into me, telling me, "People pay US to develop Sonic product, we don't pay them!" Then she hung up on me. Obviously, Penders had related my strategy to them in a less-than-flattering way. Thanks for the knife, Ken.

So, I gave up. Later, I was informed by friendly fans that Penders had written in his message board or some such place that "Ben Hurst doesn't know how movies are made in Hollywood." (Hey Ken, read "Adventures in Screenwriting" by William Goldman and get some humility) Then he dropped hints that HE would be the writer for a big Sonic Feature Film. That was three years ago.

So, if you're reading between the lines, you can see I don't hold out much hope for seeing the third season of Satam - or being the one who does it if it happens. And that makes me sad. Because if it were to happen, those 13 episodes would sizzle.

[VO.SUPER]

Even when Ben Hurst died, he refused to admit what a horrible thing he did and just sugar coats the story to make it sound like he wasn't a backstabber. 

 

 

 

Ben Hurst is not a topic I take lightly, mainly due to the fact that no matter what I say about my relationship with him, there are more than a few Sonic fans ready to call me a liar or say I'm being disrespectful towards the man, especially now after his passing.

For the record, and this will be the only time I address this, Ben Hurst and I initially met up at the San Diego Comic-Con one time back during the 90's, around the time SONIC UNDERGROUND had finished production. It was a cordial meet & greet, nothing more. Later, we had a phone conversation, and Ben expressed interest in writing for the Sonic comic, complimenting me on how I had carried the torch (his words) when neither Sega or anyone else was really doing much with the character. As Archie was publishing the SONIC SUPER SPECIAL series at the time, I thought it would be a great idea for Ben to write where he would have taken the series. He suggested that if he did do the story, he'd want to take what he planned and fit it into the series' continuity. So I contacted Justin Gabrie, and told him about Ben's interest. When Ben found out what Archie paid per page for script was nowhere near what he was paid for the scripts he did for the Sonic animated series he worked on, he decided to pass. (Which was sad, because Art Mawhinney would have been assigned to illustrate that particular script.)

This led in turn to Ben and I discussing doing a Sonic animated project with a Hollywood studio. Since I didn't know anyone in Hollywood at the time, I thought it only right he take the reins to pitch the project. What I discovered was that Ben thought Sega would be willing to fund such a project. Even then, with my lack of any Hollywood experience, I knew that approach would be a non-starter, and I was never able to shake Ben's belief that Sega would be willing to pay us to do the project. Consequently, when I was approached by noted animation producer/director Larry Houston - who was responsible for guiding FOX-TV's X-MEN series during its first five seasons - about working on a Sonic project, this led to a misunderstanding with Ben.

Ben understandably wanted to be paid for whatever work he did, but the problem was he didn't seem to be aware how the animation industry was evolving at the time, which forced a number of writers and artists who once had steady work to either settle for much less or get out of the business altogether. I totally lacked the knowledge and experience at the time to actually get a full blown project off the ground, so I'm not sure even now there was anything I could have done back then to move anything forward with regards to the project.

So short answer: Ben said he was happy with what I was doing moving the series forward, but we could never get our act together regarding collaborating on any future project. 

It's one of those things I'll always have regrets over. 

 

He just skirts past the big issue of what he did.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

So are we all in agreement that this "Sonic and friends came from a nuclear holocaust while Robotnik and Snively are the last humans" backstory is pretty stupid?

Actually, I'm gonna hold my ground and say it's all on the execution rather than the concept of it.

 

Maybe alter a few things with the idea, but I honestly wouldn't mind Sonic and friends being mutated humanoid animals that evolved from some devastating event in the past. The only stupid thing I would find is having Eggman and Snively as the last humans, and that's because I'm pro-human to the point that I prefer more humans around (with anthros to balance it of course).

[biznizz]

I've never really seen most of Hurst's plans (hence my surprise at the Robotniks' origins), but if that's what he had planned for the humans, then just who was the Great War fought against? Humans/Overlanders vs Anthros/Mobians may be a cliche and anvilicious, but at least it worked for the old comic continuity.

 

Eh.

 

Also, Ken is still planning LSC to be a digital & trade only. One has to ask: if he can do that, then why isn't he trying this with the Lost Ones? Yeah, it was initially published by Image, but it's still owned by him. What does he see in LSC that he's willing to put so much effort (well... for him, anyway) to publish that a... "superhero" comic couldn't? Hell, that trailer for it is at least two or three years old (if not older), why go for a property that, not only did you manage to get by royally pissing off a large fanbase to get, but is just going to be seen as a "furry" book drawn terribly when he has humans to work with that he's at least shown to have drawn less incompetently in the past?

[biznizz]

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/454853938852810752

 

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/454854457105215488

 

Wow. Just. Wow.

[Agie]

I don't believe it either.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

...um, I think I'm missing something.

 

Are we suppose to be in shock of Penders being modest and congradulatory or something?

[biznizz]

Well, it's not only Ken giving a congratulatory "good job" to a writer who's work he's said he has no plans on ever reading and would in fact completely ignore everything he's done if he was ever rehired (pre-lawsuit), but also phrasing the "compliment" so politely, you can almost feel the waves of insincerity.

 

Also, on how trubluesonicfan is still so crazily worshipping Ken to almost crazy levels. (BTW, avoid his twitter feed, it's nothing but crazy and non-stop arguments. It's almost worse than Ken's.)

[Your Vest Friend]

You guys missed the other controversial statement that came out today, then? Ah well.

[biznizz]

Umm.... I hestiately ask what this other statement is? Is it like another lawsuit or something?

 

Or are you talking about that article the Guardian published saying that the franchise is dead and that it's fans (us) are the worst? Cuz I know that has it's own topic full of a can of worms.

[Your Vest Friend]

I mean this thing, more on the poem controversy.

[Milo]

"What made their objections [to my use of the Niemöller paraphrased quote] ridiculous is that I grew up in a world where I actually lived through horrors perpetrated upon the Jewish people that the objectors have only at best second-hand knowledge out of a book or the internet years if not decades after the fact. What happened in Munich in 1972 was not some film made by Steven Spielberg, but a real tragedy that took place in real time on television that the world watched much the same as they had watched the Moon landing or the Kennedy assassinations, all of which I also remember following. So it's not like I wasn't sensitive to the plight of the Jewish people, especially since it's been a fact all my life that if the state of Isreal were wiped off the map, more than a few people would be disgustingly celebrating.

 

I grew up in a world where the news would report Nazi war criminals being ferreted out and sent to Isreal for trial decades after WWII had ended, so I'm more than familiar with the subject matter being discussed."

 

 

Why is this man so fascinating for all of the wrong reasons.

[Salamander]

I actually think he's correct on fair use in this instance.  Where I'd take him to task is on how appropriate his choice is.  I think that comparing a political thriller arc in a Sonic the Hedgehog comic to actual Nazi purges trivialises the historical reality.

 

Still, with any luck, it really will be his "final word" on the subject.  Let's see if he holds to that.

[Dejimon11]

I mean this thing, more on the poem controversy.

I had to stop reading when he considered the knuckles peom to be a parody.

[DavidTL]

I had to stop reading when he considered the knuckles peom to be a parody.

 

...well...to be fair...there really isn't a better word out there. Even in his post, he begrudgingly uses the word parody.

 

My beef is still the use of the poem, in the sense that it doesn't relate to the work at hand, and doesn't relate to the incident that he cites in the post. The actions of the Kristallnacht can really only be related to a single page in the story, with the context nothing like the actual atrocity that occurred. Not to mention that the other quotes that he uses actually do relate on some level to the grander narrative that he is working with in the story. Not to say the story is good...there are plenty of plotholes and feels out of place even with what came before. It's just that one quote from issue 22 sticks out like a sore thumb.

[biznizz]

What Ken doesn't get is that there are people who criticize him for the Hitler allegory, especially since he mixed it with JFK's "Ask Not" speech in 23. The Holocaust poem was just brought up more.

 

 

(For god's sake, they're doing a seig heil! WTF!?)

 

And if you want to be shallower, the poem was about Robotnik, yet he's showing off the Dark Legion doing the breaking in and abducting/brainwashing. Robotnik was DEAD at this point. And even when he was alive during his take over, he didn't do the systematic thing that the Nazis did, he just took over all at once, screw the hedgehogs, rabbits, squirrels and everyone else.

 

And no, it's not a freaking parody. It's an uncredited reference he used to make things seem edgier, that is more closer to plagarism.