Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

...Maybe? I only remember a Sonic looking like an Assasin Creed reject (Before Ass.Creed, mind you) and that Knuckles (possibly Knuckles nº 2329674) was his son.

Oh yeah, this thing:

If by cuter you mean looking soulless, well... Ok. Dem legs, doe. Nothing is sexier than spaghetti.

...Because Sonic needed Ally Mcbeal in their universe.

 

I don't think the Comic would have survived if everything happened to Sonic instead of Knuckles... 

Holy moof, those legs do not look right.

[Maeson]

And if you thought that that Sally was creepy, then you haven't LIVED till you see the Naugus Games story in the last Super Special. 

Okay, after taking a look at Super Special 15 I can see what you are saying.

Holy moly, between SSS 15 and #113 I can't decide which is worse. 

[ZDozer]

That alien art... It still hurts in my eyes to see it.

[horridus]

Essentially what the Knuckles book was, except that it would've actually lasted longer due to Archie not wanting to give up that sweet licensoring deal with SEGA. Remember the Robin Hood parody that he made a cousin to Amy? Essentially that, mixed with the Dark Legion, just with hedgehogs.

Pffft. I'm picturing it now. 

-Sonic is actually part of a seeecret bloodline of Hedgehog Defenders whose job it is to guard the hidden technology cache of Mobius, and because of a vision, Sonic's father performed genetic experiments on himself that gave Sonic his powers, and has actually been watching Sonic the whooole time. Charles broke the rules of the Defenders by using the ancient tech cache to create the Roboticizer and causing Robotnik to get ahold of it.

-Once Robotnik is out of the picture, the TRUE enemy emerges in the form of an evil outcast society of hedgehogs who wanted to use the ancient tech for their own ends. Robotnik in any incarnation is quickly nudged off to the sidelines should he come back, because hey, screw the main franchise villain, it's hedgies with poorly explained motives that we want!

-Sally will die in Endgame. Elias will usurp her role as leader of the FFs, while Penders pushes Hedgehog Julie-Su with all the fervor of a Hoover Vacuum salesman. 

-Sonic is revealed to be the destined saviour and eventual king of Mobius and oh god somebody just shoot me already. 

-Meanwhole, Knuckles languishes as an underdeveloped character on the Floating Island. Is perhaps very fortunate for this fact. 

 

 

Ah yes. That. Such a respectful reference to a controversial subject, so shortly after it's closure. 

You gotta love that this was his ORIGINAL idea of how to kick off his super serious magnum opus Endgame arc. A fucking parody. And a lousy one at that. 

Dear God that *horse*...

[Maeson]

Pffft. I'm picturing it now. 

INCREDIBLE AND CRINGEY PLOT ABOUT EDGY HEDGEHOGS WITH WIGS AND TECHNOLOGY, TRUE AND HONEST SCI-FI FURRY DRAMA FOR THE CHILDREN.

With Knuckles sounds ridiculous, but with Sonic sounds so fanfic-y (Bad ones, I mean) that the cringe is even higher. And I thought it wasn't possible.

 

Dear God that *horse*...

...WHAT?! That's a horse?! I thought it was a bizarre fusion of a Boar and a rabbit! Seriously!

Ford Bronco, What's wrong with your faaaace...?

I also like how he tries to give details on how Whitey is, by pointing things that you can't see at all and won't be important in drawing this cover.

Dylan looks pretty classy too.

[horridus]

And we have an update on the app. 

He. Doesn't even have an issue out. Not one. 

 

[King Scoopa Koopa]

Well, he can't do that until he has Korean, Greek, Italian,Swahili, Pig Latin, and Klingon ready to go first. These things take time, you know.

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

One thing's for sure, he has his priorities in order!

[ZDozer]

Let's not forget those african tongues that can give you cancer on your tongue if you use it too much.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

...what the hell is that supposed to mean? African tongues?  

[ZDozer]

There are some african languages that use sounds similar to a... knock, I don't know how to describe it in written English.

I've read once that there is also a language that can get you some bad things on your throat/tongue for overusing of those sounds.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

are you talking about using your tongue to make "tic toc" or "click" noises? Cause then I guess I kinda get what you're saying. I'd have described it as trying to eat out their own uvulas but that's just me.

 

things that sound dirty but aren't: 3

[biznizz]

Ahem... anyways on topic...

I was curious about something with you guys. For anyone who's a long time reader (i.e. directly during Penders' tenure) or got into the older issues after Ian took over, just what was the moment you read in Pen's works that made you realize that the man was basically a hack who lucked out?

Mine was when I first started reading the Sonic book which was a few issues before and upto the 125 milestone, where Knuckles was dead, green and about to travel to the afterlife, but then came back ala Jesus. I was so confused that, after 126, I pretty much dropped the book entirely. Didnt help that I was about... 12 at the time.

[Maeson]

Oh god, if this releases someday I'll read the s**t out of the spanish translation. The translator could be good but...

...If he got the amazing abilities of Google Translator for that; is going to be even more fun than your normal awfulness. Added spangrish and wrong use of verbs is going to be awesome.

Translating spangrish back to engrish could be fun too.

One thing's for sure, he has his priorities in order!

Well, of course! Have you forgotten Who he is?!

He is the P.E.N.D.E.R.S. he got the master plan!

My story begins, this one is not Flynn's

A world full furries with very weird chins!

Aboard my 'FIC, from genius at heart,

look at the horrors i'm going to start!

I am The P.E.N.D.E.R.S., That's who I am,

I am The P.E.N.D.E.R.S, I got the Master Plan!

Edited October 10, 2015 by Maeson

[Gabz Girl]

you read in Pen's works that made you realize that the man was basically a hack who lucked out?

Mine was when I first started reading the Sonic book which was a few issues before and upto the 125 milestone, where Knuckles was dead, green and about to travel to the afterlife, but then came back ala Jesus. I was so confused that, after 126, I pretty much dropped the book entirely. Didnt help that I was about... 12 at the time.

Yeahhh I got some of those issues with green Knuckles and they are SO bad that I'm amazed the comic was still selling so well at the time. Gotta also love the pretty looking cover art by Spaz while the inside was mostly terrible art, tricking people into thinking it was going to be really good. >_>

I also think M25YL was where Archie Sonic jumped the shark, for me. I mean who the hell wants to read furry soap operas in their Sonic comics?!

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Ahem... anyways on topic...

I was curious about something with you guys. For anyone who's a long time reader (i.e. directly during Penders' tenure) or got into the older issues after Ian took over, just what was the moment you read in Pen's works that made you realize that the man was basically a hack who lucked out?

Mine was when I first started reading the Sonic book which was a few issues before and upto the 125 milestone, where Knuckles was dead, green and about to travel to the afterlife, but then came back ala Jesus. I was so confused that, after 126, I pretty much dropped the book entirely. Didnt help that I was about... 12 at the time.

Well, I didn't get into the comics until Worlds Collide, having heard of the series, and being interested in it, as well as having seen Sonic Firsts in Mega Collection Plus, but I began collection the Archives and Legacy in order to recollect back issues. But, before I even got any of those, I got one of the Digital App Exclusives on the Sonic Comic App, named Love Sucks!. Keep in mind that by this point, I did have some of the Saga Series GNs at this point so I liked Scourge and Mina by this stage.

Love Sucks! Had #150 in it, and since I've gone over again and again why I despise it, let's just say it's one of the most boring, lazy, melodramatic excuses for a landmark issue ever created that flanderizes and screws up characters that were built up for years and almost completely destroys their characters,

Edited October 10, 2015 by Ryannumber1Scarer

[horridus]

Ahem... anyways on topic...

I was curious about something with you guys. For anyone who's a long time reader (i.e. directly during Penders' tenure) or got into the older issues after Ian took over, just what was the moment you read in Pen's works that made you realize that the man was basically a hack who lucked out?

Mine was when I first started reading the Sonic book which was a few issues before and upto the 125 milestone, where Knuckles was dead, green and about to travel to the afterlife, but then came back ala Jesus. I was so confused that, after 126, I pretty much dropped the book entirely. Didnt help that I was about... 12 at the time.

I learned this lesson slower than others. I was one of those fans who liked anything Sonic, and I liked the set-up in Archie. As I got older I began to notice the holes and the flaws, but didn't really think too deeply on them other than 'okay, maybe this isn't as good as I remember it, but I still like it'. Then the lawsuit happened, and I got made at Penders... but then, then I decided to check out his forums, his twitter, looking around his various statements over the years. It was then I realized that Penders was in fact a flat out horrid excuse for a person. So, I re-read the old comics, this time with a more critical eye than before, and I realized... it was junk. All of it. The shoddy detritus produced by a man confident that he could coast on the brand name of Sonic while doing as little as possible to actually incorporate anything from it. 

That was the moment I realized I had just squandered a fair portion of my life on the sub-par works of a jackass that really weren't worth the paper that they'd been printed on.

[Sunwalker]

Let's not forget those african tongues that can give you cancer on your tongue if you use it too much.

I guess you meant "african languages" . In Portuguese there are a single word for both "tongue" and "language", which is "língua", so I see where you are coming from . However in English those are completely different things, "tongue" refers only to the part of the body.

[horridus]

I guess you meant "african languages" . In Portuguese there are a single word for both "tongue" and "language", which is "língua", so I see where you are coming from . However in English those are completely different things, "tongue" refers only to the part of the body.

Well in fairness, those with a flair for the poetic do indeed use 'tongues' when meaning languages, but again, that's really just kind of a throwback to more archaic terminology. 

Buuut getting back on track, yeah, Penders is being... waaaay too hopeful, with regards to the number of translations this will get. Or how widely spread his work was read, given that his big claim is that the fans that sustained the comic for years and years would SURELY be willing to shell out money for him. Given that the US Archie comics are sold only in specialization stores, his optimism is a tad unrealistic. I'd think the UK Sonic comic would have been more widely read and available in Europe than the US comic.... 

[Zaysho]

Ahem... anyways on topic...

I was curious about something with you guys. For anyone who's a long time reader (i.e. directly during Penders' tenure) or got into the older issues after Ian took over, just what was the moment you read in Pen's works that made you realize that the man was basically a hack who lucked out?

Mine was when I first started reading the Sonic book which was a few issues before and upto the 125 milestone, where Knuckles was dead, green and about to travel to the afterlife, but then came back ala Jesus. I was so confused that, after 126, I pretty much dropped the book entirely. Didnt help that I was about... 12 at the time.

You know what's funny? When I was a kid, I was a huge fan of Knuckles, the character. He was my favorite Sonic character (still one of them), and I was really excited when he was getting a comic book. I liked the overall set up and ideas in the book, despite it really not being ANYTHING like the games... but there wasn't much supplemental material at the time (this is all prior to Sonic Adventure nailing down Knuckles's ancestry) that I accepted it as some kind of alternative. And, as a kid, the Dark Legion warring with the Brotherhood was much more interesting to me, though looking back, I must have filled in a lot of holes subconsciously, because there was never a real payoff until Flynn started trying to work with that and getting rid of what was unnecessary.

After the original mini-series and the first twelve or fifteen issues though (I think the "Chaotix Caper" was the last storyline for that series that I even sort of liked), I got really bored with the Knuckles comic. It just wasn't a very interesting read, and I rarely picked up issues for that series in consecutive order after that. In fact, the last complete storyline I have for that is *shudder* "The First Date". Which I think I found funny in a sitcom sort of way when I was much younger but when I was older and going through my comics it's one of the most cringeworthy things I've ever read, both in writing and artwork (which is a real shame because Chris Allan is a great artist). I like Knuckles. I like Julie-Su, I even like them as a couple, but cripes not like this. At least the Mighty and Ray back-up in those issues was actually good, for a post-End Game story written by Penders anyway (despite his need to shove in a creation of his own in the form of Nic just because--if he didn't the story wouldn't have had any of his creations).

After the Knuckles series ended (a small mercy--the Monk story was so awful, I didn't even get the last issue)... there just wasn't a single good story featuring the character between that and milestone 125 that I can think of. We got shit like Chaos Knuckles and Knuckles dying, which really put me off to the point that I lost interest in the book for a few years (admittedly, this isn't solely Pen's fault--some of Bollers's stories around that time weren't much better). After that, I'm only somewhat familiar with what Pen did afterwards. I never read stuff like M25YL (only the Flynn stories) or anything like that, but I read the Shadow three-parter that (I assume) he was forced to write before he left Archie because it wasn't about Knuckles or any of his own creations... which was slightly better, but you can tell he had no idea what to do with Shadow and probably didn't even want to do that story.

So, while I don't think I really became disillusioned with Pen altogether until after the lawsuit happened, I'd say things pretty much went downhill when he got his own book. It was just a slow burn to realize that. He was extremely lucky to get in when he did: Sonic was a popular property that practically sold itself, Archie's management and editorial was very lax, as was SEGA, it's not hard to see that he coasted most of his run and was able to get away with it. Had things been different back then, even just similar to when Pellerito took over, I doubt he would've gotten very far the way he did things. No sane editor would've let him (though to Gabrie's credit, he roadblocked that tasteless "End Game" cover concept and kept Sally alive, even if he did jack all the rest of his time on the book).

Edited October 10, 2015 by Zaysho

[horridus]

You know what's funny? When I was a kid, I was a huge fan of Knuckles, the character. He was my favorite Sonic character (still one of them), and I was really excited when he was getting a comic book. I liked the overall set up and ideas in the book, despite it really not being ANYTHING like the games... but there wasn't much supplemental material at the time (this is all prior to Sonic Adventure nailing down Knuckles's ancestry) that I accepted it as some kind of alternative. And, as a kid, the Dark Legion warring with the Brotherhood was much more interesting to me, though looking back, I must have filled in a lot of holes subconsciously, because there was never a real payoff until Flynn started trying to work with that and getting rid of what was unnecessary.

Welcome to my world. In retrospect, I think I actually liked the ideas more than how they were really depicted, and got so into things because ultimately I was projecting something deeper than was actually supported in the text. I'd always thought the big point of everything was that the Brotherhood and Legion were both screwed up and that it fell upon Knuckles to put an end to the whole feud. Re-reading it though... yeah, that was all in my head, and while basic concepts that Penders introduced might have had potential, he really, really squandered the potential uses of his ideas (and then bitterly resented Flynn for going forward and exploring the ideas he set up rather than just preserving the status quo). 

After the Knuckles series ended (a small mercy--the Monk story was so awful, I didn't even get the last issue)... there just wasn't a single good story featuring the character between that and milestone 125 that I can think of. We got shit like Chaos Knuckles and Knuckles dying, which really put me off to the point that I lost interest in the book for a few years (admittedly, this isn't solely Pen's fault--some of Bollers's stories around that time weren't much better). After that, I'm only somewhat familiar with what Pen did afterwards. I never read stuff like M25YL (only the Flynn stories) or anything like that, but I read the Shadow three-parter that (I assume) he was forced to write before he left Archie because it wasn't about Knuckles or any of his own creations... which was slightly better, but you can tell he had no idea what to do with Shadow and probably didn't even want to do that story.

Yeeeah, trust me, you were not missing anything in 25YL. At all. That thing was, if not the absolute nadir of Penders writing and the entire tumorous storyline he'd developed for Knuckles, then at least deserving of the number two spot... it's hard to decide, between that or the last batch of stories he did for Archie before deciding to leave because he couldn't handle actually having to do stuff that the company wanted. That miserable storyline is just one slow, agonizing look at the future of only a few characters really, in which we see their offspring act like spoiled brats and stereotypical teenagers while Sonic engages in a mid-life crisis. Oh and the best part? You wanna know what the big payoff would have been? Sonic going back in time, but as a kind of time spectre unable to do anything but observe. I am deadly serious. THAT was where he was going with it. 

So, while I don't think I really became disillusioned with Pen altogether until after the lawsuit happened, I'd say things pretty much went downhill when he got his own book. It was just a slow burn to realize that. He was extremely lucky to get in when he did: Sonic was a popular property that practically sold itself, Archie's management and editorial was very lax, as was SEGA, it's not hard to see that he coasted most of his run and was able to get away with it. Had things been different back then, even just similar to when Pellerito took over, I doubt he would've gotten very far the way he did things. No sane editor would've let him (though to Gabrie's credit, he roadblocked that tasteless "End Game" cover concept and kept Sally alive, even if he did jack all the rest of his time on the book).

Looking at his bibliography and reading up his page on the Star Trek wiki, I can verify that he really did just luck out. You look at the various other things he's done, and he hasn't done even a year's worth of work for any of them. His work on The Next Generation was several issues, he bounced around as an inker and colorist (jobs he doesn't deem as neccessary as a writer or artist), and his vaunted 'television work' is similarly limited. While he tries to hype himself as a kind of everyman, and technically he has worked for many companies, the reality is that Sonic (and Knuckles) was the only thing he's ever had a real career in, and that the environment at the time was the only thing that really allowd him to thrive. His Star Trek wiki even mentions that they had to get another artist in due to quality issues and lateness, and while his take on things was that he was fired due to office politics (he got a new editor who 'didn't care for his work'), given how incredibly dishonest he is about his own work ethic and skill, it doesn't take a lot of effort to guess that he just wasn't up to snuff, and it's likely he just didn't really have what it took to last in a *genuine* professional environment. 

In a way, I think he kind of got spoiled; so used to getting his way and for his shoddy, sub-part writing and art being 'good enough', that he never really bothered to even try improving. His work after leaving Sonic is pitiful, despite what he likes to claim; storyboarding work for two King of the Hill Episodes and the Bratz Movie, a CGI Cartoon with no information anywhere, and 'The Republic', a TV Movie/Web Series with no info, no reviews, and nothing else but an IMDB page with a suspicious rating score. 

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Just Saiyan, your text is really really hard to read, horridus.

[horridus]

Somebody decided to up and ask Penders about if, maybe, he isn't getting ahead of himself with regards to the translations he desires. His response was as measured and respectful as it tends to be. 

Is it just me, or does he sound a teeeny bit defensive here?

[Agie]

I will say that for any work, an international release should be a consideration...but yeah, it shouldn't be something to dwell on when you're still working on the version for your home country. Especially when success isn't even certain.

Some works have seen more success in other countries than their own (heck, some anime series considered classics over here are barely, if at all remembered in Japan), but I still wouldn't be thinking about international releases that early in production if I were him.

Then again, Penders loves to count his chickens before they hatch, even in the face of strong evidence that few, if any of them will hatch, so this isn't surprising.

[King Scoopa Koopa]

He'd rather cover all his bases in tissue paper than reinforce the weak spots.