Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[SBR2]

I'm sorry if i don't have the patience to read through a whole bunch of pages (like i already tried to do), but when is the book coming out? (estimate?)

Soon in 2012.

[Cradily Lover]

I really can't help but feel sorry for Ken. He went to so much trouble and effort to get the rights to his characters, just to use them for a project destined to fail, tarnishing his own reputation in the process.

 

If he hadn't done the whole lawsuit thing, his characters would have stayed loved and relevant to people and he would still have been well-regarded by the Sonic fandom. Sure, his writing wasn't spectacular by any means, but people would have still been able to appreciate what he did contribute, instead of tearing in to anything he ever created. By the time TLSC releases (sorry, if it releases), I doubt there will be anyone left who actually cares about his characters. Even now, people seem to mostly be missing the characters that were created by other writers, but erased thanks to him regardless.

 

How is he going to react when/if his book releases and it turns out to be a failure? How does he feel about the Sonic comic still going strongly even now that the characters who he thought were so essential to it were written out of existence?

 

Even he should eventually be able to realize he made a mistake. But will he be able to admit that?

[King Scoopa Koopa]

It's interesting to see that Ken's just starting to notice that FuhrerMustang has a little bit of a.... thing about Ian - after Mustang started blaming Ian for basically everything and saying how he deserves it all, Ken actually started defending Ian against Mustang's wilder accusations and essentially politely told him to take it down a notch.

 

Yeah, that blew my mind.

 

 

I really can't help but feel sorry for Ken. He went to so much trouble and effort to get the rights to his characters, just to use them for a project destined to fail, tarnishing his own reputation in the process.

 

If he hadn't done the whole lawsuit thing, his characters would have stayed loved and relevant to people and he would still have been well-regarded by the Sonic fandom. Sure, his writing wasn't spectacular by any means, but people would have still been able to appreciate what he did contribute, instead of tearing in to anything he ever created. By the time TLSC releases (sorry, if it releases), I doubt there will be anyone left who actually cares about his characters. Even now, people seem to mostly be missing the characters that were created by other writers, but erased thanks to him regardless.

 

How is he going to react when/if his book releases and it turns out to be a failure? How does he feel about the Sonic comic still going strongly even now that the characters who he thought were so essential to it were written out of existence?

 

Even he should eventually be able to realize he made a mistake. But will he be able to admit that?

 

I don't think I feel sorry for him. If I ever did, I'm well past that, simply because it all seems too karmic. If anything, it would be pity.

[horridus]

It's interesting to see that Ken's just starting to notice that FuhrerMustang has a little bit of a.... thing about Ian - after Mustang started blaming Ian for basically everything and saying how he deserves it all, Ken actually started defending Ian against Mustang's wilder accusations and essentially politely told him to take it down a notch.

 

Everyone's got their limits. I've detested Penders for a good long while now, but I was never fond of how he got the blame for every last thing that went wrong with the comic. Even if Penders is clearly pretty envious and resentful of Flynn, Mustang takes it in a direction that goes above and beyond a 'normal' level. Even on the forum, Penders tended to give an impression of simply tolerating Der Fuhrer despite his mindless, psychotic praise. 

 

Anyway, for a lark I decided to look over some of his old images. One thing that still strikes me is the direction his 'advertising' for this is taking, namely the fact that he is presenting it as the latest portion of some well known franchise, like Star Wars or Star Trek. Like many things about Penders, it just continues to baffle me, given that he insists that he's trying to draw in new readers. 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Let's keep in mind here that Mustang/Naugus is the one who's trying to claim Ian's slandering him by making Ixis Naugus (As in the actual character) into a troll.

[Verb & Noun]

This topic isn't about him. We don't need to be reprimanded for that again.

[Agie]

Agreed. We already got yelled at for it once. Never again.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

There's a new Lara-Su design on his Twitter banner. It looks horrid.

[biznizz]

If it's new, then it looks similar to the one he's had for a while.

 

But ugh. Those fonts he's chosen for the logo are clashing badly. The "Shattered Tomorrow" portion looks bad even on its own.

 

Not to mention that, still, Xero and Lara-Su (other than the dreadlocks) look like they aren't the same species. And Lara looks like she's middle aged, still. And her head looks disproportionately huge on her shoulders, while Xero's looks more... managable at least.

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

I saw the twitter banner he put up. It looks a bit odd.

 

He forgot to put eyelashes on Lara-Su. It also looks like she does not have a peach muzzle area, And I see some alienated language serving as the shadow for TLSC...

 

The word 'Tomorrows' looks like it's merged with the background.

[horridus]

And now we have an update regarding Comic-Con.

 

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/615655463435153409

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/615655948992917505

 

So he's... taking a break from drawing to 'compile' what he's going to bring to Comic-Con. Along with mentions of a back issue he seems convinced will sell. 

 

You know, my 'No LSC This Year' sense has kinda been on a dull hum in the background for a while, buuut this kinda cranks it back up to 'YEP NOT HAPPENING'. 

[Blue Swallow]

And now we have an update regarding Comic-Con.

 

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/615655463435153409

https://twitter.com/KenPenders/status/615655948992917505

 

So he's... taking a break from drawing to 'compile' what he's going to bring to Comic-Con. Along with mentions of a back issue he seems convinced will sell. 

[horridus]

I wonder if he'll at least have some pages or something, maybe "THE STORM", he must have something to show us by now.

[Agie]

Yeah, I doubt anything halfwhat decent will turn up.

[Verb & Noun]

He drew new images. I'm not sure if I've mentioned before but it's very rare for him to draw new images and not use them repeatedly for various things. It's likely we'll see prints of Xero and the new Lara-Su image along with the prints he didn't sell last con. At least, that's my prediction.

 

 

Now with that said, there's something that I just thought of, because I remembered Pen randomly mentioning he 'hated' using pastels in his coloring work.

 

If he hates pastels, why did he redesign Lara-Su to have nothing but pastels? I mean in comparison, her father's design kept the same colours. That got my mind to thinking about "K'nox"s design in general- his design isn't that greatly different (as everyone has pointed out), to the point where he uses old art from the comics and goes 'that's him'. Pen's defense to that is that he owns that design. Then why did he redesign Lara-Su so much? Or Lien-Da? Doesn't he own those designs too?

 

If this is intended to be new audience friendly, using a design that looks different from the current design is pretty confusing.

 

(Editing- Horridus mentioned to me that he may be referring to pastels the medium. In which case, oh. Oops.)

[Agie]

Honestly, it'll be hazy to new and old readers. At best. As I said before, new readers would be lost because they're expected to know these guys, and old readers would be confused on what continuity was changed and what was retained.

[biznizz]

I have to ask: did anyone really get Ken's echidna mythology from the Sonic books WITHOUT the Mobius Encyclopedia or looking at the timeline recaps from stuff like the Super Special Magazines?

 

It doesn't help when he makes crap up all the time. Just look at Julie-Su: she went from a formerly faceless Dark Legion grunt into being Lien-Da's half-sister, the continuity hurdles of which led to the "revelation" that she was the subject of a familial conspiracy on her half-siblings' part which led to her getting her memories wiped. Twice.

 

Don't be surprised if a revelation in this new project is that Xero is either: 1) Lara-Su's real father or 2) a hither-to-fore unrevealed "lost" sibling of Lien-Da & Julie. Or "K'nox" in disguise.

[QuantumEdge]

I have to ask: did anyone really get Ken's echidna mythology from the Sonic books WITHOUT the Mobius Encyclopedia or looking at the timeline recaps from stuff like the Super Special Magazines?

 

It doesn't help when he makes crap up all the time. Just look at Julie-Su: she went from a formerly faceless Dark Legion grunt into being Lien-Da's half-sister, the continuity hurdles of which led to the "revelation" that she was the subject of a familial conspiracy on her half-siblings' part which led to her getting her memories wiped. Twice.

 

Don't be surprised if a revelation in this new project is that Xero is either: 1) Lara-Su's real father or 2) a hither-to-fore unrevealed "lost" sibling of Lien-Da & Julie. Or "K'nox" in disguise.

I didn't read enough of the issues involving that mythology to fully understand it.  It was through the comic encyclopedia I got for my brother that I read the details in the timeline section.  Even then it's crazily convoluted stuff that feels so distant from the very idea of Sonic the Hedgehog as a franchise.

[Neon Zephyr]

Yeah, the old Echidna mythology was convoluted in so many ways. As a kid, I don't think I ever really understood it. I really just simplified it in my mind (The founders of the two opposing forces were brothers, their descendants served as the factions' leaders, and I tended to just peg Julie as a "lost" sister that Lien-Da didn't just kill for some reason--maybe to manipulate to hold sway over Kragok if he betrayed her? That would have been more interesting, if still convoluted as all get out).

 

Actually, Julie-Su never needed to be related to this insanity to have merit or be an interesting character. She didn't have to be a "faceless mook" either. It would have been interesting and worth exploration if she'd been, say, a significant officer in the Legion, with no relation to any other current (known) officer. If she had the respect of the troops and her superiors alike. If the Legion was all she knew and she was loyal, truly believing them to be right. Then, meeting our heroes, she gradually figures, maybe we're kinda not in the right here? (No soultouch BS, freaking no) Then the Grandmaster or Lien-Da does something--gives an order or something--that is so unmistakably evil that Julie's world is shattered. The leaders she's served, the people she's helped lead, have been so corrupt from the start that she never did any real good (except to maybe support her troops in some manner, which still led to bad actions, but I digress). And then, she leaves to support the heroes because No what you're doing is wrong and I can't stand by that anymore, I'll help these heroes. I know how you work. They will be all the stronger against you with my knowledge and experience on their side. I will not let you continue this evil or madness anymore, and I will not further it either. And the Legion feels truly betrayed and actually is dealt a blow by this change. And any romance isn't just secondary, but peanuts compared to the *moral choice* Julie would have had to make here.

 

Wait....

[horridus]

I have to ask: did anyone really get Ken's echidna mythology from the Sonic books WITHOUT the Mobius Encyclopedia or looking at the timeline recaps from stuff like the Super Special Magazines?

 

It doesn't help when he makes crap up all the time. Just look at Julie-Su: she went from a formerly faceless Dark Legion grunt into being Lien-Da's half-sister, the continuity hurdles of which led to the "revelation" that she was the subject of a familial conspiracy on her half-siblings' part which led to her getting her memories wiped. Twice.

 

Don't be surprised if a revelation in this new project is that Xero is either: 1) Lara-Su's real father or 2) a hither-to-fore unrevealed "lost" sibling of Lien-Da & Julie. Or "K'nox" in disguise.

 

I can still remember the initial, halfway cracky theory that maybe Xero would be her SON from the future. 

 

And you know, the worst part about all that insane, convoluted knot of backstory revelations? She's *barely* affected by it. Like at all. Her entire life is revealed to be a lie, and she doesn't even react to any of it. Hell, she just cheerfully accepts that Simon's story is entirely true without even asking for the burden of proof. Even going beyond the fact that these details were just added for the sake of drama and the headache of a continuity it creates, none of it really amounts to anything... Julie isn't affected by any of it. She isn't even more hateful towards Lien-Da because of what happened. She just... goes on her merry way. 

 

That's one of the reasons I'm morbidly curious about the contents of LSC. I earnestly want to know how UN-affected people are by the various insane crap they're in for. 

[Verb & Noun]

I have to ask: did anyone really get Ken's echidna mythology from the Sonic books WITHOUT the Mobius Encyclopedia or looking at the timeline recaps from stuff like the Super Special Magazines?

 

It doesn't help when he makes crap up all the time. Just look at Julie-Su: she went from a formerly faceless Dark Legion grunt into being Lien-Da's half-sister, the continuity hurdles of which led to the "revelation" that she was the subject of a familial conspiracy on her half-siblings' part which led to her getting her memories wiped. Twice.

 

Don't be surprised if a revelation in this new project is that Xero is either: 1) Lara-Su's real father or 2) a hither-to-fore unrevealed "lost" sibling of Lien-Da & Julie. Or "K'nox" in disguise.

 

I struggled to follow the echidna lore in places reading it when it first came out. I missed the original miniseries, but it's not as if reading that would have helped me any in retrospect, as the original miniseries seems to indicate that the echidnas of the Floating Island blew up their city after deciding that technology was bad.

 

Only for later for that city to be entirely intact.

[Nestor]

Having not read the Knuckles series myself, do you think that the echidna lore would have been more acceptable if Ken had dropped the whole 'kneejerk get rid of all technology for dubious reasons' reaction of Echidna society in the wake of Enerjak, and thus allowed the Dark Legion to be framed more as power hungry technophiles seeking after Dmitri's forgotten technology (rather than the slightly sympathetic undertone of them having a point about not stupidly becoming technophobe troglodytes)? In truth, the basic outline of what Ken did didn't seem too bad, it was just some of the bits holding it together seemed a little odd; reducing the Brotherhood of Guardian's slightly sociopathic tendencies (or framing them in a way that we were not supposed to root for them) would probably also help. Or am I missing some other subtexts from not having read the books?

[therealfalconpawnch77]

Having not read the Knuckles series myself, do you think that the echidna lore would have been more acceptable if Ken had dropped the whole 'kneejerk get rid of all technology for dubious reasons' reaction of Echidna society in the wake of Enerjak, and thus allowed the Dark Legion to be framed more as power hungry technophiles seeking after Dmitri's forgotten technology (rather than the slightly sympathetic undertone of them having a point about not stupidly becoming technophobe troglodytes)? In truth, the basic outline of what Ken did didn't seem too bad, it was just some of the bits holding it together seemed a little odd; reducing the Brotherhood of Guardian's slightly sociopathic tendencies (or framing them in a way that we were not supposed to root for them) would probably also help. Or am I missing some other subtexts from not having read the books?

You are missing no Subtext at all. Never is what Locke, the Brotherhood, or Edmund called wrong, they are 100% right, and the Legion is wrong.

[biznizz]

Not to mention that, for a city of people who supposedly turned Luddite, they started using technology a whole lot. Even the Brotherhood. Despite the fact that the WHOLE REASON the Dark Legion was started, was because most of them did not want to give up their technology and rallied behind Dimitri and his son because they were symbolic of their cause.

This authorial cognitive dissonence was only acknlowleged once, when Lien-Da orders some fat anti-tech platforming politician to be legionized and brainwashed and the guy actually had leisure tech in his home, and it was never brought up again. There shouldn't have been any reason for the Legion to even exist past their initial invasion of Echidnopolis; one look at the city and they realistically should have gone "Oh wow. Looks like you guys decided to chill out with that 'no more tech' crap. We cool?"

[horridus]

What the above posters said. The idea in of itself is not neccessarily a bad one, but the way it is depicted and implemented does not lend the concept much credit. In theory, it could have been a shades of grey conflict about a generations long feud gone out of control and that ultimately the Guardians were just as complicit in the mess as the Legion was, and thats how I myself saw it... largely because there was so little actual substance to it, I wound up projecting something more complicated than what was actually shown. 

 

Penders talks about the conflict like it was indeed a shades of grey type deal and that we would see more of it in Lara-Su Chronicles since he now had the chance to be more 'shades of grey', and he might indeed thought he was writing such a thing all along, but the thing is, whenever anybody points out the poor deeds of the Brotherhood, he gets incredibly defensive and dismisses the criticisms wholesale. Notably, he never stops to say 'Yeah, they did bad things and it wasn't right of them', he just  keeps justifying them, especially Locke.