Sonic 4 thread

[Milo]

Ya know, I ordered a hamburger at a restaurant once. Cheese, bacon, A1 steaksauce, the works, but hold the pickles. I was so hyped. Then when I placed the order, the waitress told me that it would be exactly the way I wanted it, and that it would be everything I dreamed of.

 

Then I got the plate, and instead of a hamburger, I got a hotdog.

 

I mean, it was a nice hotdog. Well, okay, it wasn't that great of a hotdog. But it was filling and everything, and I'm sure many others enjoyed their hotdog. But it wasn't a hamburger. It wasn't what was promised to me.

 

Then they said that they'd get it right the next time.

 

When I got it, I got a pattie made of hotdog meat on a hamburger bun. They held the pickles, I guess, but where's the beef? It's only made to look like a hamburger at this point. Is it good? Yeah, I guess...? But it isn't a hamburger.

 

That's kind of what we're trying to get at. That's Sonic 4. I ordered a sequel to Sonic & Knuckles, I got something almost totally different. They then made the second episode, and it was only superficially similar.

 

Honestly, few if any customers that shared the same preference for that kind of hamburger actually went to the restaurant that made those hamburgers and made orders for that specific hamburger, because the restaurant who made those hamburgers at some point stopped making those kinds of hamburgers, and consequently the customers that enjoyed those kinds of hamburgers stopped (regularly) visiting that restaurant. The few customers that did make those orders for those kinds of hamburgers at the time were usually under the pretense that if the restaurant started making that specific hamburger again, it would singlehandedly rescue the restaurant from the hard times it had then fallen into and place the restaurant back in their heyday when they were making booming business by making those kinds of hamburgers. No different to those who regularly request for the restaurant to once again provide chicken sandwiches with cheese, crispy onions, lettuce, tomatoes, and mustard under the same argument that it would put the franchise back on top.

 

Almost a full two decades since they stopped making those burgers, the restaurant then announced they were making those hamburgers again, with promises that it would have an unrivaled classic flavor and that it was the hamburger older customers had been waiting sixteen years for them to cook once again. That got the attention of customers who used to enjoy those hamburgers and brought them back to the restaurant.

 

But, as we all know, what they released under the pretense that it was the classic hamburger former customers wanted for years was not the promised classic hamburger. It went beyond being prepared by different chefs, prepared with different techniques, and prepared with different ingredients and sauces. You said it yourself, it wasn't even a hamburger at all, it was a completely different entree.

 

oh my god did i really just counter your hamburger analogy with another hamburger analogy what am i doing with my life

[jennytablina]

To be honest, Im happy it isnt Sonic 1. I found Sonic 1 2 3 to be very boring games. Sonic 3 and Knuckles was alright but i dont think its' "good" i think its "alright" and "cool". Thats just me. I dont really get it. I dont understand whys ists bad for Sonic 4 to have like 2 modern touch to it? I mean the game has classic feels. Its a classic game but with newbies. We have games that are for everyone for many years. They put things in the new games classic fans like and no one complains. They put Classic Sonic and everyone loves and so do I. But Sonic 4 brings in modern fans and they blame them for the game being bad. It rubs me the wrong way.

I get a feeling your a little young to understand why people dislike Sonic 4, or find it hard to believe it has it's fans (come on people, even Sonic 06 has had defensive write up's before, nothing new here) 

I mean by arguing that the classic Genesis games actually don't interest you, your only supporting Indigo Rush's statement regarding Sonic 4: as a standard "Sonic" title it's kind of okay, But it really should of never been given the title "Sonic 4" at all. 

To understand the level of hate Sonic 4 has, you had to be around when Sega hyped it for well over a year of trickle-feed info. For most of that year all we had was a very vague trailer, then tons of social media campaigns (when Sega still had a pretty active community team) that was mostly pretty neat-looking concept art. People worked on little mini-art contests, tried to get hashtags trending, and liked posts in droves to get those scraps of info. People were excited because the concepts *looked* like Sega had something really special cooking. Then they finally revealed the actual game...

(On reflection, maybe the fact Sega kept chucking concept art at us, instead of any real info, was the first sign of trouble...)

I think a lot of people were thrown by the CGI look of the game, considering the concept art, people were hoping for something like Rayman Origins, but it looked...maybe not quite to the standard of quality we all expected a game titled as "Sonic 4" to be. The 3D was a bit low-poly, and it turned out iOS was the lead platform in development, above all else - DIMPS of all people were the developers, not Sonic Team. It seemed strange that Sega would give a title like "Sonic 4" of all titles, to an outhouse dev. I suppose you could say at the time, DIMP's technically had a sound record with the franchise, as the Advance titles generally did well critically and in terms of sales, and Rush pretty much showed up Sonic Team by selling and scoring a way lot better than 06 did. Though there were plenty of detractors already kind of irritated with the speed-pad and spring direction of Rush and Rush adventure. 

I almost half wonder if Sega went to DIMPS and said "Hey you think your so good at making Sonic games eh? Well make us Sonic 4, we supply the hype, you supply the game!". 

Sega said to wait for more details, Sonic 4 wouldn't really be seen proper till months later when a Splash Hill demo showed up. Then people started to realize something was wrong, the physics were not classic, the level wasn't very inspiring visually, and the soundtrack already sounded...off.

 

One thing I will say as real talk: I love most of Jun Senoue's work on the Sonic series. But Sonic 4's OST is easilly his worst work on the series. I don't think it's from lack of talent, Sonic 4 Ep I and II's music just feels like it virtually has no soul or personality, when I hear it, I don't hear anything near the tracks I loved from 3, 3D, Heroes or the Adventure series. Sonic 4's soundtrack is just..long droning noise for the most part. Splash Hill and Mad Gears is as memorable as the music gets, just to make it better, they made the entire soundtrack MIDI (or sound like MIDI) while pulled though one of the most annoying synth MIDI sets ever. I can't even remember any of the level themes from Episode II, as they are all instantly forgettable. 

So this "scared title" as an entry to the classic series was already going to be a mobile game, with an out-of-house developer, made with graphics that might of been acceptable in the Saturn era, but looked cheap and tacky in the HD era and the soundtrack sounds soulless, with the first level looking like a rather uninspired mix of Palmtree Panic and Emerald Hill. Just a few years before we'd gotten Sonic Unleashed, a game with snazzy visuals, pretty unique level designs, a great engine overhaul + an orchestral soundtrack. Sonic 4 got hardly even half that effort. 

It got a delay after a leak suggested console versions would have the fiddly iOS tilting levels for months, which was used simply to give console versions alternative levels + a bit of engine tweaking. It turned out to be a short 4 level affair after a year + of hype, with artificial lengthening with some insanely hard sections + an insane final boss. 

Episode II was a bit better, while the Sonic and Tails dynamic was cute and fun as an idea, Most of Episode II still doesn't sit right as a "Classic" Sonic title. The level design is worse than Episode I in places, and feels like even more of a chore to play. 

 

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

There's nothing wrong with this game having "modern" influences at all -- in fact, I'm not opposed by Sonic's modern design or the Homing Attack being here. What's the problem here is that it plays less like a "classic" Sonic game (which is supposed to be the whole point of it) and more like a poor man's Sonic Rush with little to none of the fun of either games. Considering that this is supposed to be a game whose target demographic is supposed to be those who enjoyed the classic Sonic games at some point in their life, this is a pretty notable problem.

So its suppose to be Sonic 1 gameplay? I been asking that before. Is is suppose to be target to classic fans or to all fans?

 

As for another comment I dont think my age has anything to do with it. Because they are kids my age saying Sonic 4 sucks and people they they are wise for there age. So it has nothing to do with why I dont understand, I think the reason i dont understand is because I didnt start out when Sonic games come out. Most of the fanbase did start back in the 1990s and most of the games were before my time. And I never heard of Sonic until 2009/2010 i play the first Sonic game very late. I start with the modern game so I wanted all the game to be like that and Sonic 4 to me was a good balance of the classic gameplay and the gameplay I was use to.

 

It was the game that has the same feature I was use to is what I like. I didnt know it was a classic game until a friend say it was a classic game so I wanted to try the others because this was my first 2D Sonic game. most of them were disappoint compare to this game to me. Esepcaily the Advance series which i thought were horrible games. Sonic 1 2 3 and Knuckles were boring titles to me because it was too simple and too boring. I didnt have the same joy and fun when I play games like Sonic Generations or Sonic 4. I didnt have the same excitement and the same fun. It was missing something. Advance series was missing alot of things to me but the biggest things I missed was the feel of the spindash from Sonic 4 and the replaying values I got from both Episodes, the feel of how amazing Sonic was and the passion. Sonic... I feel he was amazing even if he was simple he has his homing attack and running and his spindash was fast. I use to think before I play the 2D game that if i didnt have the boost and the fun from other games then it wasnt Sonic... but I was wrong.

 

Im sorry to ramble. I want to tell my thoughts on the game and why I like.

[Indigo Rush]

Honestly, few if any customers that shared the same preference for that kind of hamburger actually went to the restaurant that made those hamburgers and made orders for that specific hamburger, because the restaurant who made those hamburgers at some point stopped making those kinds of hamburgers, and consequently the customers that enjoyed those kinds of hamburgers stopped (regularly) visiting that restaurant. The few customers that did make those orders for those kinds of hamburgers at the time were usually under the pretense that if the restaurant started making that specific hamburger again, it would singlehandedly rescue the restaurant from the hard times it had then fallen into and place the restaurant back in their heyday when they were making booming business by making those kinds of hamburgers. No different to those who regularly request for the restaurant to once again provide chicken sandwiches with cheese, crispy onions, lettuce, tomatoes, and mustard under the same argument that it would put the franchise back on top.

 

Almost a full two decades since they stopped making those burgers, the restaurant then announced they were making those hamburgers again, with promises that it would have an unrivaled classic flavor and that it was the hamburger older customers had been waiting sixteen years for them to cook once again. That got the attention of customers who used to enjoy those hamburgers and brought them back to the restaurant.

 

But, as we all know, what they released under the pretense that it was the classic hamburger former customers wanted for years was not the promised classic hamburger. It went beyond being prepared by different chefs, prepared with different techniques, and prepared with different ingredients and sauces. You said it yourself, it wasn't even a hamburger at all, it was a completely different entree.

 

oh my god did i really just counter your hamburger analogy with another hamburger analogy what am i doing with my life

 

I don't know how to respond to this except that I'm really freaking hungry now.

[FriendBot]

Yes Sonikku! It is supposed to be similar to the classic games, specifically 3&K, it is called Sonic 4 for crying out loud! How does that not mean it's going to be something for the classic fans or play anything like the Genesis games.

 

Can you care to explain why do you find the Classic boring or simplistic? Is it because it doesn't have a homing attack or boost?

[Komodin]

So its suppose to be Sonic 1 gameplay? I been asking that before. Is is suppose to be target to classic fans or to all fans?

 

No, it's "supposed" to be an enhanced version of Sonic 3 and Knuckles. While it's obviously a Sonic game that's intended to be for everyone, the fact that it's a direct sequel to the classic trilogy, coupled with the general structure of its gameplay, lends credence to its target demographic being, well, classic fans.

[jennytablina]

I think a more interesting discussion is that on the status of Sonic 4 in SEGA's eyes at this time. I don't recall them ever saying Episode II was the last episode, they left it kind of open ended, will we see an Episode III or with Sonic Boom on the scene, is it now being buried and forgotten by SEGA?

[Milo]

I don't know how to respond to this except that I'm really freaking hungry now.

 

Thankfully I had a delicious burger with bacon, crispy onions, jalapenos and pepperjack cheese earlier today so I'm not in your situation

 

But yeah the basic gist of it is that while Sonic 4 can be enjoyed by anyone and isn't (necessarily) targeted only for one demographic, as it was billed as a sequel to the Genesis games, the main demographic it was specifically targeting/supposed to appeal to was people who are fans of the Genesis era of Sonic games - Sonic 1, 2, CD 3/&K/3&K - and thus was expected to take the essential material of those series of games (gameplay, physics, controls, artstyle, content, artstyle, storytelling, etc.) and build upon them as a direct successor above all else.

[MegasonicZX]

Yeah, at first I was kind of in the same boat as sonikku when I was younger but honestly I can see why some were disappointed since even though it doesn't have to be like the classics (which believe you me, I could care less if it emulate the classics or not, less like them the better I say) it was advertised as that and the fact that everything wasn't even close to replicating the classics it probably turned a lot of fans off.

 

Also, to whoever said it earlier, yeah this game did basically look like a poor mans sonic rush to me on reveal and it honestly baffles me why this game wasn't just a sonic rush sequel since thats obviously what it was leaning towards.

[StaticMania]

Calling Sonic 4...Sonic the Hedgehog 4 and marketing it as a Classic style game being the TRUE sequel to Sonic the Hedgehog 3&Knuckles is a Classic fan's main problem with this game. To be a True sequel, the sequel needs to take the basic concepts of the previous game and keep building on it while bring its own fresh new concepts to table. Sonic 4 does not do this at all, not even trying to. The game has Sonic 1, 2, and 3&K as a foundation or base to build on and it doesn't do that. It uses Sonic 1, 2, and Rush as the starting idea and pretty much goes on from there. Sonic 4 as a classic Sonic game is not a worthy sequel or a very faithful sequel to Sonic 3: It does not have proper Sonic physics to work with, Sonic does not carry momentum while running or rolling, making rolling essentially useless not even being faster than running even when still holding right. The level design doesn't even allow for the classic Sonic physics to even serve a purpose, its way more automated than it should be just to have speedy segments, because they don't require any player skill and consist of nothing but "Springs and Dash pads" which isn't interesting at all. The level design doesn't allow you to go fast on your own, so anything not automated is almost always flow-breakingly slow. It doesn't bring any new level themes or original takes on old level themes...obvious RE-USE of Sonic 1 and Sonic 2 level themes, complete with same exact enviornment aesthetics, same enemies, and same bosses. Inclusion of the Homing attack and air dash make requiring speed nothing of skill anymore, killing enemies even easier than necessary, and Mandatory Homing attack chains above bottom-less pits which aren't even difficult, just repetitive. with the level design, the game might as well be Sonic Rush..,without the boost and even more automation.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Yes Sonikku! It is supposed to be similar to the classic games, specifically 3&K, it is called Sonic 4 for crying out loud! How does that not mean it's going to be something for the classic fans or play anything like the Genesis games.

 

Can you care to explain why do you find the Classic boring or simplistic? Is it because it doesn't have a homing attack or boost?

Sorry I didnt know that Sonic 4 was suppose to be another boring and slow 2D game ;p

 

Me not liking the classic games because Its the feel.... they didnt feel the same as the games i start with. I was big disappoint when I play after Sonic 4 and Sonic Colors DS. It can be the gameplay. I say before that in the old games the game play as very slow and boring compare to the start games. To repeat the sentense:  Advance series was missing alot of things to me but the biggest things I missed was the feel of the spindash from Sonic 4 and the replaying values I got from both Episodes, the feel of how amazing Sonic was and the passion. Sonic... I feel he was amazing even if he was simple he has his homing attack and running and his spindash was fast.

 

To sonic 4 the homing attack added some fun to the game to a already faster game.

[FriendBot]

Sorry I didnt know that Sonic 4 was suppose to be another boring and slow 2D game ;p

 

Me not liking the classic games because Its the feel.... they didnt feel the same as the games i start with. I was big disappoint when I play after Sonic 4 and Sonic Colors DS. It can be the gameplay. I say before that in the old games the game play as very slow and boring compare to the start games. To repeat the sentense:  Advance series was missing alot of things to me but the biggest things I missed was the feel of the spindash from Sonic 4 and the replaying values I got from both Episodes, the feel of how amazing Sonic was and the passion. Sonic... I feel he was amazing even if he was simple he has his homing attack and running and his spindash was fast.

 

To sonic 4 the homing attack added some fun to the game to a already faster game.

 

Well the classics weren't trying to be like the boost games. Sure it is slower than Rush/Colors DS but it makes up for how enjoyable the level design the classics have. But each episode only had 4 levels while the classics had more levels than that. I'm pretty sure that 4 wasn't made with such passion because if it was it would've been like 3&K with the HA, if you will but nope instead of Sonic Team making 4, they had to get the people who made the Advance and Rush series to make it and they did a lazy job at it.

[Indigo Rush]

Sorry I didnt know that Sonic 4 was suppose to be another boring and slow 2D game ;p

Okay, you can like what you want but this needs to stop.

 

 

Classic Sonic is not slow. The speed of Sonic is proportional to the skill of the player, so don't come here acting like these games are the dullest things on the market because you can't manage to get Sonic to run as fast in the newer games.

 

And I don't know about you, but I don't see how controlled speed, platforming, spin jumps, bouncing and rolling are boring, and millions of sold games and continual sales are a testament to how un-boring and legitimately fun these games are. Classic Sonic is a skillful and deep platforming series, and while that may not be what you like, I will by no means stand around and let you insult it.

 

You don't have to praise it like it's the best thing since tater tot sunday, but at least respect it and those who love it.

[JAiRO]

Okay, you can like what you want but this needs to stop.

 

Classic Sonic is not slow. The speed of Sonic is proportional to the skill of the player, so don't come here acting like these games are the dullest things on the market because you can't manage to get Sonic to run as fast in the newer games.

 

And I don't know about you, but I don't see how controlled speed, platforming, spin jumps, bouncing and rolling are boring, and millions of sold games and continual sales are a testament to how un-boring and legitimately fun these games are. Classic Sonic is a skillful and deep platforming series, and while that may not be what you like, I will by no means stand around and let you insult it.

 

To be fair, the videos you posted rely more-so on memorization rather than skill.

 

I love the Classic games to death, but usually you were moving so quickly that you had no time to react to an upcoming obstacle at top speed no matter your skill level, unless you knew it was there. Of course this is why the ring system is in place, to counter-act cheap hits such as these.

 

But yeah, Classics are still way better than Sonic 4.

 

EDIT: Blarg, you edited your post.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Hey! Im not a sucky Sonic player. Juat because I think the game is slow doesnt mean I suck at Sonic games. At least i finish all the classic games and got all the chaos emeralds!! Same with the Advance games. This is the same thing with Advance games, they acuse me of being a sucky Sonic player because I called the games shitty while I finished the while trio! And got all the chaos emeralds. So I never give up a game even if i think its sucks.

 

Oh and Im really good at Classic Sonic in Sonic Generations and I used my same skill. so yes I have a skill as a Sonic player. Im not a horrible player. And the person in the videos is really good player.

[Indigo Rush]

I can't help but feel you missed the point.

 

I wanted to stress the fact that it takes skillful platforming and practice to get the most speed out of Classic Sonic. They aren't as fast as the Modern Sonic games simply because you barely have to do much to achieve that speed. That's quite alright if you like that, and I like that, too! 

 

But in the case of saying that the older games were slow period, you were simply wrong. Even if you may personally find it boring, it's quite frustrating to see you say that it's slow when you clearly haven't had the experience of seeing what those games are truly capable of. It takes practice, like any retro video game. 

 

And my previous offer still stands. If you have a platform that can play any of the Genesis Sonic games, let me know and I will personally buy you one of them so you can have all the time you need to enjoy and experience it for yourself.

 

Apparently you have played and beaten them all, I take it? I'm not quite convinced but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

[JAiRO]

Hey! Im not a sucky Sonic player. Juat because I think the game is slow doesnt mean I suck at Sonic games. At least i finish all the classic games and got all the chaos emeralds!! Same with the Advance games. This is the same thing with Advance games, they acuse me of being a sucky Sonic player because I called the games shitty while I finished the while trio! And got all the chaos emeralds. So I never give up a game even if i think its sucks.

 

Oh and Im really good at Classic Sonic in Sonic Generations and I used my same skill. so yes I have a skill as a Sonic player. Im not a horrible player. And the person in the videos is really good player.

 

Completing a game doesn't make you good at it. Sorry, the two just aren't synonymous.

 

Classic Sonic in Generations controls very different compared to Sonic 3&K, they tried to emulate it to the best of their ability, but it's still a very different experience.

 

Don't feel too bad about not being as good as the guys in those videos, they literally plan out routes to take. Speed running a game and playing it are two totally different experiences.

 

EDIT: I think I could've fit "different experience" in here a few more times.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Im not good like you but I dont suck. Its the idea that someone says that Im unskill that gets me upset but if your not trying to say that then I apologize. Im not good like the people in the videos.

 

I respect the fans of the game. Im not that horrible modern fan. I dont like those older games because of the gameplays and there was nothing add to me. Thats only my opinion and I dont understand why people are upset. Especially if they are not my first Sonic games. Im not insulting the classics.

[JAiRO]

Yeah, again don't feel too bad about not being as good as the guys in those videos, they literally plan out routes to take. Speed running a game and playing it normally are two totally different experiences.

 

When you said they were slow and boring it seemed insulting, the Classics started a majority of the people here on the series and so it's something many of us hold dear. It really seemed like you were flat out insulting the games that started the series.

 

If you were not as you say you weren't, however, my apologies.

[Sami]

Sorry I didnt know that Sonic 4 was suppose to be another boring and slow 2D game ;p

 

Me not liking the classic games because Its the feel.... they didnt feel the same as the games i start with. I was big disappoint when I play after Sonic 4 and Sonic Colors DS. It can be the gameplay. I say before that in the old games the game play as very slow and boring compare to the start games. To repeat the sentense:  Advance series was missing alot of things to me but the biggest things I missed was the feel of the spindash from Sonic 4 and the replaying values I got from both Episodes, the feel of how amazing Sonic was and the passion. Sonic... I feel he was amazing even if he was simple he has his homing attack and running and his spindash was fast.

 

To sonic 4 the homing attack added some fun to the game to a already faster game.

 

Okay, this is some god damn nonsense.

 

Yes, Sonic 4 was supposed to be "another boring and slow 2D game". It is called Sonic the Hedgehog 4 and was marketed as a return to the gameplay of the classic trilogy. As someone who dislikes the classic trilogy, it is not something inherently made to appeal to you conceptually. That it is is only a testament to how horrendously flawed the design of the game is on even the most rudimentary level. 

 

Not everything is made to appeal to you. The market for people who play video games is so large that there exist niches for a huge variety of games - and this applies to Sonic as well. If the game was called Sonic Rush, then you would have a point. If the game was called Sonic Adventure you would have a point. But it's not either of those things.

 

"I didn't know Sonic Rush 3 was supposed to play like Sonic 1" - Correct.

"I didn't know Sonic Adventure 3 was supposed to play like Sonic 1" - Correct.

"I didn't know Sonic 4 was supposed to play like Sonic 1" - Of course it is. It's supposed to be built off of the design of its predecessors because otherwise there is literally no point in giving it that title.

 

It wouldn't make sense for me to act surprised when the newest Mario game doesn't have a story as good as Metal Gear Solid's because that's a completely asinine stance to take. Mario is not something that appeals to me and never will be, and that's fine. There are a ton of fans that it does appeal to and it makes sense for the games to continue appealing to its fanbase. Likewise, the classic Sonic games are still enormously popular and any real sequel would target that market.

 

tl;dr - I'm not trying to be mean, but no, if you don't like Sonic 1, 2, or 3, then the fact that you do like 4 only proves how terrible of a sequel it is. You're free to like whatever you want, but please don't act surprised when people don't agree.

[Indigo Rush]

tl;dr - I'm not trying to be mean, but no, if you don't like Sonic 1, 2, or 3, then the fact that you do like 4 only proves how terrible of a sequel it is. You're free to like whatever you want, but please don't act surprised when people don't agree.

That's actually the best way you could have put it.

 

Bravo.

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

a story as good as Metal Gear Solid's

 

Geez man I didn't know you hated Mario that much

 

But seriously, I think Discoid's got it right here. When your game is advertised towards the nostalgia crowd and the only fans of the game have none of it, you've done something wrong. I'm not sure if there's not much more to say than that.

[Blue Blood]

There's been a lot of "well why can't Sonic 4 appeal to the modern fans too?" gong on here. You know what? It can appeal to the modern fans. Partially simply by being a Sonic game because they have a fairly universal appeal, and otherwise by using the modern designs. Including some modern elements, like the homing attack, wouldn't have been so offensive if they were done in such a way that they trampled over all of the classic gameplay. But the gameplay was shite and shared little more than the most basic Sonic elements in common with them. Sonic 4 was supposed to be a classic game. If you like it and yet somehow really dislike S1, S2, S3 and SK, Discoid's quite right in saying that something's gone seriously wrong. It's the most asinine thing to says that a sequel to the classics should change so much to appeal to newer fans when the classic formula is still immensely popular. Re-releases of the classic games still sell in huge quantities, and people still love them for what they are.
 
Sonic 4 is basically a 2D Sonic game that looks like it might play like a classic game. The resemblance is only skin-deep though. What appears on the surface to be a classic Sonic, no, what was relentlessly marketed as "Sonic 4 as you truly imagined it" is an absolute insult to the long-standing fans. The very idea behind it was in fact that it would appeal to the older fans who loved the games back on the MegaDrive. Both Takashi Iizuka and the then-head of SEGA West said during 2010 that S4 was specially being made for the older fans while Colours was for the younger ones. That's not to say that there can't be overlap between fans of course. Most people here, including myself, would identify as fans of almost all things 'Sonic'. But those comments gave such a huge insight into SEGA's strategy then. In particular, people took these statements and were infuriated because Colours was clearly the much better game. Sonic 4 it nothing more than a cheap knock-off of the classic games. Poor graphics and poor sound to the point of objectivity (what is a light source?), and gameplay so hideously made it's hard to look past even if you do like it.
 
Seriously. What the fuck is this?

 
And who on Earth thought that this was acceptable?

 
Those have absolutely nothing to do with "appealing to modern fans" either. It's just bad.
 
The one other thing that I have to bring up. S4E1 was leaked several months early. The game was 100% finished at this time, but hundreds of people had full access to the game on X360. Videos were posted everywhere, and we all knew what to expect of the game. Fans kicked up a huge fuss over the physics, and two levels in particular. Eventually SEGA decided to delay the game for a good few months and the only changes we saw of any significance were two replaced stages. None of the comments about physics, uncurling and level design seem to even have been considered. Once Episode 2 rolled around nearly 2 years later (what a ridiculously long wait that was) it still had hardly changed. The graphics were a better, and the sound used better samples, but that's it. The physics changed? Sure, but not nearly to the extent that people wanted them to, and it's all worthless when the level design isn't improved at all. SEGA, Sonic Team and Dimps did not care one iota about this game. It was Sonic 4 in nothing but name.
 
 

is it okay to dislike the classic sonic games and the advance games?... i hate when people say "if you like it then somethings wrong"

 
You appear to have missed the point because that's not what anyone has said. What we've actually said is that, if you like Sonic 4 but not the classics, then there is something wrong with Sonic 4 itself (not that there is anything wrong with you). By virtue, this kind of proves how dissimilar they are and why so many people do like the classics dislike Sonic 4, or at least why dislike it as sequel.
 
Let me stress this now because you're constantly playing the victim: You can like Sonic 4. You can dislike the classics. You are entitled to your own opinions. We are trying to explain to you why Sonic 4 is disliked and what is somewhat objectively wrong with it as something that is supposed to be a classic game. That is all. Please stop this whole game where you behave like people are attacking you. It's not the case and you know it, yet you still persist to act like it.
 
tl;dr What's wrong with appealing to the modern fans? Everything is wrong when the game can't even appeal to it's primary audience after three attempts. 

[spinny]

I remember the very day SEGA announced Sonic 4 as "Project Needlemouse". The whole time it was painfully obvious they were going for a classic Sonic style. They wanted to appeal to the fans of the classic trilogy (along with probably CD). If you love Sonic 4 but hate the classic games, clearly this means their aim failed, as the game was supposed to appeal to the classic fans as I just said.

 

And for crying out loud no, the Classic games are not "dull, slow and boring". How many times do I have to link this video of mine?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxILQFLmnmI

 

Yeah, Sonic 4 can be fast, but for all the wrong reasons. Speed boosters, spammable air dash, unlike actual effort required through using the rolling mechanic effectively like the classic games did. 

 

It was marketed endlessly as "Sonic 4 as you truly imagined it", and that's what many people thus expected. There's literally no excuse SEGA can come up with for this mess anymore.

[MegasonicZX]

I remember the very day SEGA announced Sonic 4 as "Project Needlemouse". The whole time it was painfully obvious they were going for a classic Sonic style. They wanted to appeal to the fans of the classic trilogy (along with probably CD). If you love Sonic 4 but hate the classic games, clearly this means their aim failed, as the game was supposed to appeal to the classic fans as I just said.

 

And for crying out loud no, the Classic games are not "dull, slow and boring". How many times do I have to link this video of mine?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxILQFLmnmI

 

Yeah, Sonic 4 can be fast, but for all the wrong reasons. Speed boosters, spammable air dash, unlike actual effort required through using the rolling mechanic effectively like the classic games did. 

 

It was marketed endlessly as "Sonic 4 as you truly imagined it", and that's what many people thus expected. There's literally no excuse SEGA can come up with for this mess anymore.

To be fair with you hear, most of the time after rolling down hills like that is something that stops you up or just sends you into the air and land with almost none of that speed game but the basics. Once again though, the classics did do rolling better and while I will say that even without most of the speed boosters sonic 4 is still plenty faster (but im not going to discuss on this) it doesn't take as much level knowledge to get through zones fastest.