Sonic Boom announced (Wii U/3DS)

[VO.SUPER]

Take a look at this trailer and analysis from GAMEEXPLAIN.

[SuperLink]

Consistency is a problem ST have for sure. I can see why they tried to do SLW and can definitely see why people want them to do more ambitious things than the boost formula, but in retrospect it might have been better for them to just keep doing something that at least kind of worked rather than wave their false-confidence around.

 

This is part of my point that ST can't do something right first try like many other devs can though. Generations would be a good standard, but it would also be nice to have a dev who was willing to do ambitious things with Sonic and consistently pull them off well is all.

[Autosaver]

"Sonic Boom can aim for 1080p/60fps because Sonic Lost World did!"

 

Well, the games were completely different.

 

This

 

vs

 

Sonic Lost World has barely any detail and has a super simplified look. Geometry is replaced with the floating sky trope allowing the excuse for less things on screen. There is only one character model on screen at any given time. The graphics are also not technologically impressive. The lighting is also not as big of a deal as it was in Unleashed. While it looks great, I wouldn't say it pushes the system.

 

Sonic Boom on the other hand has a way better lighting system. There is a ton of detail in each shot shown and the graphics look really good. The textures are nice and there is a LOT of foliage with grass and flowers. There also seems to be segments where up to 4 character models will be on screen at once. This game looks great and already runs at a staggering 1080p resolution. Xbox One and PS4 games already have trouble doing that with high detailed games. Does Boom have some magical optimization in place?

 

 

If it does run at 60fps and 1080p, I'll be blown away.

[Splash the Otter]

I...Uh.. Wha? Cash cow or not, his big games aren't even remotely dependant on his popularity, they are polished, quality games that leave the player wanting more.

 

Super Mario Galaxy is probably the greatest gaming experience I've ever witnessed in my life so far, nothing has topped it since, that sort of feeling isn't conveyed through popularity alone...

All I said is that it felt like Mario was relying on popularity. I mean the franchise rarely tries anything new, to the point that I get deja vu playing most of the games. Are my standards too high or something?

[Lady Soniko]

But... Mario has been trying new stuff all the time, I honestly can't say I get deja vu when playing Galaxy, no other game has done what that game achieved.

 

Unless you're drawing aesthetic comparisons to games with similar functions i.e. paintings in Mario 64 leading to worlds, Paintings in Mario Sunshine leading to other parts of the island etc.

 

Nintendo may rehash a lot of the side scrolling Mario games and milk it, but I'm talking their 3D series where all the games are vastly different and bring something new to the table every time, be it power ups, worlds, gimmicks or gameplay styles.

 

Even though the New Super Mario Bros games are virtually the same with recycled assets, they are still absolutely solid titles that are deserving of their success.

[Sami]

"Sonic Boom can aim for 1080p/60fps because Sonic Lost World did!"

 

Well, the games were completely different.

 

This

 

vs

 

Sonic Lost World has barely any detail and has a super simplified look. Geometry is replaced with the floating sky trope allowing the excuse for less things on screen. There is only one character model on screen at any given time. The graphics are also not technologically impressive. The lighting is also not as big of a deal as it was in Unleashed. While it looks great, I wouldn't say it pushes the system.

 

Sonic Boom on the other hand has a way better lighting system. There is a ton of detail in each shot shown and the graphics look really good. The textures are nice and there is a LOT of foliage with grass and flowers. There also seems to be segments where up to 4 character models will be on screen at once. This game looks great and already runs at a staggering 1080p resolution. Xbox One and PS4 games already have trouble doing that with high detailed games. Does Boom have some magical optimization in place?

 

 

If it does run at 60fps and 1080p, I'll be blown away.

 

This is the entire basis of my argument in that other thread a while ago, where I said I'd rather have a game push the Wii U at 720p/30fps like Boom does than a game like Lost World. It just looks better, imo. Plus the fact that it can run at all on Wii U pretty much guarantees 1080p/60fps if the developers bother optimizing, or at least a rock solid 30fps. 

 

I'd like a source on that "native 1080p" bit though, if you don't mind. That caught me by surprise and a bit of googling turned up nothing.

 

 

edit - Also general consensus I've seen regarding Gens is that it's a fantastic and fun game despite being somewhat imperfect.

[Willsy]

Take a look at this trailer and analysis from GAMEEXPLAIN.

This has really lowered my concern about the combat. If it will be varied and fun, I don't see it being a bad inclusion.

[Dantemustdie00]

Okay, I will say that that Double Roundhouse spin kick thing Sonic did while Amy did her Hammer spin was damn awesome looking.

[SuperLink]

That Sonic Boom trailer analysis has some pretty important points, like the echidna statue possibly holding a Ring? It'd be fascinating to have Rings as some kind of plot point for once. Also seems like the light speed dash is returning from the ring placement.

 

It also kinda seems like the hoops will be like entrances to other areas from the various sandbox parts or hubs, so it could be that the speed segments will mostly be done in the hub or something, maybe not all that automatic? They point out on the bit where Sonic is running on water that you can see two of the hoops on the water's surface, implying that you can probably run towards them. So.. the water section, at least, might not be automated at all. I'd recommend watching the vid if you're interested, some silly points but some genuinely insightful stuff.

 

Still not sold on the combat though, the less intrusive enemies are the better.

 

Also on the topic of framerate, even if I think Gens and maybe Unleashed could reach 60 on Wii U, I'm not sure if this game could considering it's a much bigger expanse with far more going on onscreen at once, way more than SLW as well as more detailed lighting and textures. Far more interactable artfacts, huge draw distance, etc. A solid 30 would definitely be nice, though since the character models aren't exactly amazing I wonder if 60 might be possible instead.

[Lady Soniko]

I'm all for Sonic actually getting hands on with combat and using his fists/feet during battle, it's like the HD love child of Sonic Battle and Sonic X Lol.

[Octarine]

I'm not so sure about the light speed dash thing. Those rings could just as easily be there for Tails to pick up in mid-flight or something.

 

...my first thought was actually that their positioning made sense for a gliding Knuckles, but we haven't seen if he can still do that. I kind of hope not, actually; it's never quite made sense to me that he can slow-mo Superman. That's just a personal thing, though.

 

It would be really nifty if rings were an important part of the story somehow. I don't think that'd make the most sense to do in the main-series universe where rings have gone unexplained for so long, but in a new continuity that sounds like a really cool thing to try.

[RK64]

"Sonic Boom can aim for 1080p/60fps because Sonic Lost World did!"

 

Well, the games were completely different.

 

This

 

vs

 

Sonic Lost World has barely any detail and has a super simplified look. Geometry is replaced with the floating sky trope allowing the excuse for less things on screen. There is only one character model on screen at any given time. The graphics are also not technologically impressive. The lighting is also not as big of a deal as it was in Unleashed. While it looks great, I wouldn't say it pushes the system.

 

Sonic Boom on the other hand has a way better lighting system. There is a ton of detail in each shot shown and the graphics look really good. The textures are nice and there is a LOT of foliage with grass and flowers. There also seems to be segments where up to 4 character models will be on screen at once. This game looks great and already runs at a staggering 1080p resolution. Xbox One and PS4 games already have trouble doing that with high detailed games. Does Boom have some magical optimization in place?

 

 

If it does run at 60fps and 1080p, I'll be blown away.

 

With the team behind the Jak games behind it (which had the series run at 60FPS on PS2 using all kinds of crazy measures; they had their engine use the PS1 parts inside the PS2 to run the games !), I wouldn't be shocked if it runs at 60 frames .

[Mr. Taxi]

Overall, I can't believe I have to argue that Sonic Generations was a critical success, a decent financial one, and is a popular game in the series.

 

Critical success...? I don't see how, really. Seeing as critics operate on a four point scale, upper 70s is what you would call "average". I also can't see how less than 2 million units sold across nearly all available platforms at the time makes a game popular as it represents quite a low market share - even Sonic Colors outperformed it if the numbers serve me right.

 

Not to speak ill of the game, but... its impact was quite negligible out of the circle that was going to talk about it either way. OF COURSE, it's a big step that most people who "would talk about it either way" liked it, but it's still not exactly the boom you're making it seem like.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

T It just looks better, imo. Plus the fact that it can run at all on Wii U pretty much guarantees 1080p/60fps if the developers bother optimizing,

Considering the devs and their reputations, this now gives me even more confidence on 60 fps gracing this game!

[MegasonicZX]

By the analysis video, im going to guess that the rings are experience points this time around instead of letting you take extra hits since this game has a health bar, it would make sense seeing as though we never see rings attract like that and I didn't see anything resembling a lightning shield around sonic. I guess this game will have a level up system of some kind.

[Nepenthe]

Critical success...? I don't see how, really. Seeing as critics operate on a four point scale, upper 70s is what you would call "average". I also can't see how less than 2 million units sold across nearly all available platforms at the time makes a game popular as it represents quite a low market share - even Sonic Colors outperformed it if the numbers serve me right.

 

Not to speak ill of the game, but... its impact was quite negligible out of the circle that was going to talk about it either way. OF COURSE, it's a big step that most people who "would talk about it either way" liked it, but it's still not exactly the boom you're making it seem like.

 

A four point scale would mean that Sonic Generations' Metacritic score is a little north of a 3.5/4. I wouldn't call that "average," but "good." I also never said that the number of units sold made it extremely popular either, nor did I even attempt to make the game out as some kind of marketing tour de force. The only point of my post was to argue against the notion that Generations was badly received.

[Autosaver]

I'd like a source on that "native 1080p" bit though, if you don't mind. That caught me by surprise and a bit of googling turned up nothing.

 

I don't have a direct link, but apparently the CryEngine3 Boom Demo were all 1080p games.

 

I'd honestly wouldn't be disappointed if they opted for 720p, 60fps for final release.

[Mr. Taxi]

Nintendo may rehash a lot of the side scrolling Mario games and milk it, but I'm talking their 3D series where all the games are vastly different and bring something new to the table every time, be it power ups, worlds, gimmicks or gameplay styles.

 

Interestingly, I see Mario's innovations as different sculptures made of the same material and following a stylistic pattern. That is, Mario Galaxy felt to me like a warped Mario 64, keyword being "Mario 64", not "warped". The foundation is the same and you still know what's your position within that universe and what you're supposed to do even if gravity works differently. So even though they are vastly different, they are still linked. The principles don't seem to change.

[RK64]

By the analysis video, im going to guess that the rings are experience points this time around instead of letting you take extra hits since this game has a health bar, it would make sense seeing as though we never see rings attract like that and I didn't see anything resembling a lightning shield around sonic. I guess this game will have a level up system of some kind.

 

Or if the game follows the Jak formula, the Rings will be like the Orbs from Jak 1, where you collect hundreds of them across the environment to trade them with NPC's for important items or use them for progression means. Games like Sonic Unleashed and Sonic 06 did use Rings as currency, so maybe that will also be the case here .

[Carbo]

Critical success...? I don't see how, really. Seeing as critics operate on a four point scale, upper 70s is what you would call "average". I also can't see how less than 2 million units sold across nearly all available platforms at the time makes a game popular as it represents quite a low market share - even Sonic Colors outperformed it if the numbers serve me right.

 

Not to speak ill of the game, but... its impact was quite negligible out of the circle that was going to talk about it either way.

It is only a low market share if you assume each game has to break some sort of magical million barrier to be profitable.

Development circumstances under games like Dead Space 3 were so insane that EA openly admitted that the game had to sell 5 million for the franchise to survive; something which ultimately killed the franchise once a fortunate exception became the rule.

Meanwhile, companies like Atlus have parties and bake cakes when a game like Catherine managed to break 30,000 copies sold within its first week.

This insistence that a million sold units is bad, or in this fortunate scenario, two millions, is only perpetuated by developers with terribly mismanaged and inflated development circumstances, and the kind of mindset you're expressing here is what lets publishers get away with running developers to the ground.

Sonic Generations' performance hardly needs questioning. The game was two hours long, at least 50% of it was reused assets and what wasn't reused passed the first three levels was blank empty space. 2 million is making the bank for a title like this.

And yes, Colors did perform better than Generations did. That can in large part be attributed to the proportion of the Wii install base trumping its competitors.

[Kuzu]

For the record, I never said Generations was received terribly but if is as acclaimed as people make it out to be/

[Mr. Taxi]

A four point scale would mean that Sonic Generations' Metacritic score is a little north of a 3.5/4. I wouldn't call that "average," but "good." I also never said that the number of units sold made it extremely popular either, nor did I even attempt to make the game out as some kind of marketing tour de force. The only point of my post was to argue against the notion that Generations was badly received.

 

I see. I am sorry. In any case, saying Gens was badly received is wrong, but that shouldn't even be the true concern. Well, you know what I'm going to say. We've been there already.

 

It is only a low market share if you assume each game has to break some sort of magical million barrier to be profitable.

Development circumstances under games like Dead Space 3 were so insane that EA openly admitted that the game had to sell 5 million for the franchise to survive; something which ultimately killed the franchise once a fortunate exception became the rule.

Meanwhile, companies like Atlus have parties and bake cakes when a game like Catherine managed to break 30,000 copies sold within its first week.

This insistence that a million sold units is bad, or in this fortunate scenario, two millions, is only perpetuated by developers with terribly mismanaged and inflated development circumstances, and the kind of mindset you're expressing here is what lets publishers get away with running developers to the ground.

Sonic Generations' performance hardly needs questioning. The game was two hours long, at least 50% of it was reused assets and what wasn't reused passed the first three levels was blank empty space. 2 million is making the bank for a title like this.

And yes, Colors did perform better than Generations did. That can in large part be attributed to the proportion of the Wii install base trumping its competitors.

 

 

 

A market share has less to do with profits than... well... a share of the market. In fact, companies not rarely go out of their way to raise their market share, even if it means less profit. Sony constantly does that. But hey, don't let me stop you from accomodating expectancies. I'd be really happy if anything I made sold more than 10,000 copies, but what we have here is SEGA at stake. It's their stock funds that rely a lot on Sonic after all.

 

It's true Gens, like every other Sonic game ever, made the bank for its company. But that's not all there is to it, now is it? What can we say of how much of SEGA is Sonic today? For how long will they need to launch a Sonic game every year?

 

(That's just rhetorical. SEGA has made some great moves recently and even letting someone else deal with a major Sonic title is one of them, to some extent. But "profit" isn't all there is to be considered).

[Sami]

With the team behind the Jak games behind it (which had the series run at 60FPS on PS2 using all kinds of crazy measures; they had their engine use the PS1 parts inside the PS2 to run the games !), I wouldn't be shocked if it runs at 60 frames .

 

 

Considering the devs and their reputations, this now gives me even more confidence on 60 fps gracing this game!

 

Well let's not get too hasty, now. I'm actually excited to get this game myself now and that would be lovely, but I think that's a rather lofty expectation to have.

 

I don't have a direct link, but apparently the CryEngine3 Boom Demo were all 1080p games.

 

I'd honestly wouldn't be disappointed if they opted for 720p, 60fps for final release.

 

Interesting. That's a pleasant surprise, though I'll still keep my expectations low just in case of disappointment.

[SuperLink]

It is only a low market share if you assume each game has to break some sort of magical million barrier to be profitable.

Development circumstances under games like Dead Space 3 were so insane that EA openly admitted that the game had to sell 5 million for the franchise to survive; something which ultimately killed the franchise once a fortunate exception became the rule.

Meanwhile, companies like Atlus have parties and bake cakes when a game like Catherine managed to break 30,000 copies sold within its first week.

This insistence that a million sold units is bad, or in this fortunate scenario, two millions, is only perpetuated by developers with terribly mismanaged and inflated development circumstances, and the kind of mindset you're expressing here is what lets publishers get away with running developers to the ground.

Sonic Generations' performance hardly needs questioning. The game was two hours long, at least 50% of it was reused assets and what wasn't reused passed the first three levels was blank empty space. 2 million is making the bank for a title like this.

And yes, Colors did perform better than Generations did. That can in large part be attributed to the proportion of the Wii install base trumping its competitors.

I want to print this post out and mount it and get it framed. I want to make posters of it and stick it up all over the world. Especially on game developers' faces and gamers' faces. I would also probably give this post chocolate on Valentine's Day.

 

But please don't judge me on that last one.

[RK64]

Well let's not get too hasty, now. I'm actually excited to get this game myself now and that would be lovely, but I think that's a rather lofty expectation to have.

 

 

Interesting. That's a pleasant surprise, though I'll still keep my expectations low just in case of disappointment.

 

You do make a good point....we don't know if the tech guys from Naughty Dog are at BRB, so it being 60FPS may not happen. But the game's animations look very stretchy and cartoon-ish like the Jak games, so we at least know that the game will run great even if it doesn't run at 60FPS (fully locked 30FPS is great, just look at AC IV on PS4 to see how smooth it could be ).