So... What's so Bad About the Series' Current Direction?

[Soniman]

The Adventures handled it a lot better and more naturally though, I felt. In Lost World, it was more like a sudden character whiplash that lasted three or four cutscenes while the writers were still approaching the whole thing as a SILLY HERPYDOO CARTUUUNE, leaving the effort feeling half-hearted and tactless. And like Azoo said, it was only a few cutscenes of an already very short game.

 

How is it sudden that Sonic became more serious when his friend was kidnapped? It lasted from the beginning of Silent Forest to the tail end of Lava Mountain, which is nearly half the game, not that much of a whiplash. And it was a thing that only effected Sonic in a serious way, it wasn't going to change the tone of everything else instantly, but things DO get more serious as the store progresses as we see with Zavok's threats of turning his Tails into a robot, which he proceeds to do so. Knuckles, Amy and the entire planet nearly dying, and the Zeti nearly killing off Eggman and co after Sonic had formed something of a camaraderie with him. It all leads to a scene where Sonic is very saddened at his inability to save anyone he cares about and the mistakes he made that resulted in where he is now.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Them feels man.

 

By the way, am I the only who sees the potential for lampshading the negatives of Solo Sonica in this cutscene?

I want to give Sonic a hug  

[azoo]

It was more/less the same length as Colors, which is a length I'm fine with honestly. Not sure what length has to do with my original point, but yeah.

It has partially to do with why I think the stories are pretty bad, yeah. I'm not fine with a super short, bare on content, anticlimactic story. Its not really an exciting narrative for a game that gives you such crazy environments, characters and the like. It feels like... well, a waste! :V

And yeah this became the characterization argument of the century all over again, since that's where half of the problems the fanbase has lie. Can't really be stopped since these kind of arguments go in infinite circles while it seems like gameplay arguments (my favorite kind!) kill themselves halfway through thanks to everyone but the game design enthusiasts not wanting to talk about it anymore.

[Jack / Joker]

What's my problem with the series' current direction? The fact that there kind of isn't one.

 

Six years ago, we had Sonic Unleashed, a game that focused on secondary stuff too much for my liking, leaving the gameplay and some crucial design choices a bit sour in the process. But hey, it went places and tried things Sonic hadn't tried before, and to say the least, that's a start. After that? Colors, which focused on the most important aspect, gameplay, and hey, for a lot of people it succeeded there. At the sacrifice of the couple'a redeemable qualities Unleashed had, unfortunately. Generations? A love letter to the fans. A love letter written by George fucking Lucas, anyway. It refined the gameplay, and the fun factor was through the roof. But it still had so many of Colors' issues, and so few of Unleashed's, err, non-issues. Basically, it's like Sonic Team served you a delicious steak, but one they'd half-cooked.

 

Sonic Lost World ditched the Boost style. It adopted a Mario-esque one in it's place. We've gone from Sonic scrambling to find his identity, to Sonic putting on a red hat and overalls. Quite frankly, if I wanted to play Mario, which I do, I'd play Mario, not this strange, messy hybrid. If Sonic were to take one thing from Mario for his own, I wish it'd be the Mario series' (...usually...) brilliant blend of consistency and unpredictability. 

 

 

To sum it up, I can only put it like this. I feel disillusioned because I don't know where the hell Sonic is going, and that's because I don't think he does either. Does that red hat obscure your vision, Sonic?

[Soniman]

Sonic Lost World ditched the Boost style. It adopted a Mario-esque one in it's place. We've gone from Sonic scrambling to find his identity, to Sonic putting on a red hat and overalls. Quite frankly, if I wanted to play Mario, which I do, I'd play Mario, not this strange, messy hybrid. If Sonic were to take one thing from Mario for his own, I wish it'd be the Mario series' (...usually...) brilliant blend of consistency and unpredictability. 

 

Eh, I guess that's another thing I can disagree with is how SLW or the series currently is now just going to be some Mario clone from now one. Then again, I didn't think SLW had THAT much Mario inspirations to begin with anyway.

[Brad]

Honestly, I think it's time to take Iizuka out of the picture and bring in a new Sonic Team with the imagination and passion to create original, inventive and enjoyable experiences for future games. I'm not saying I can give you the list of this new team, but what we do need is something fresh that understands what it wants to be, unlike Lost World. The series seems to be so desperately pandering to his once rival's audience that he looks like a shoddy clone with less imagination and runs a little faster. 

 

Give me a reliable 3D formula franchise and a reliable 2D franchise of games, and THEN you can experiment, Sonic Team. I can't even really give a formal opinion on what the series direction is, because like others have said, there really doesn't seem to be one.

[azoo]

Well, I mean, I'm not gonna knock on Iizuka here too much, but last time he was out we got Unleashed.... sooo....

Then again, before then without him there was Sonic 06. But then again, he was also making NiGHTS: JoD... yeeaaaaahhhh....

[Jack / Joker]

Eh, I guess that's another thing I can disagree with is how SLW or the series currently is now just going to be some Mario clone from now one. Then again, I didn't think SLW had THAT much Mario inspirations to begin with anyway.

If I said the series will just be a "Mario clone" from now on, it absolutely wasn't what I actually meant I just have a small feeling like if Lost World's successors are in the same vein as Colors and Generations, they could end up just enhancing the simariolarities. I didn't mean that's what I think is absolutely positively definitely where they're going with Sonic.

 

And going into that, although I wouldn't say it was outright a clone (we get worse offenders left right and center), I just think it had too many similarities. Sonic used to be (or at least want to be) the most absolutely not-Mario platformer there was, so yeah... take notes from him, but don't take whole books full.

[-Mark-]

 

Anyone remember when Sonic was supposed to be the cool, edgy alternative to Mario? When he was a spiky little bundle of attitude who did things his own way no matter what anyone else thought?

I guess I just imagined all that.

 

Except that, along with much of the early-90s American 'assface' Sonic was shitty 90's 'raaaaaadical' marketing which was completely abandoned when Sonic Adventure came along, wiped the slate clean and overrode everything with a united, worldwide canon.

 

Western Sonic was like that in the early 90s. That personality has no place in the modern canon and clashes violently with the personality that's been established for him since Sonic Adventure.

[Diogenes]

The Adventures handled it a lot better and more naturally though, I felt. In Lost World, it was more like a sudden character whiplash that lasted three or four cutscenes while the writers were still approaching the whole thing as a SILLY HERPYDOO CARTUUUNE, leaving the effort feeling half-hearted and tactless.

It's not as if the game is never serious before Tails gets captured. We had the Zeti taking control after the conch was punted, discussions of what Eggman's machine would do and how they were going to stop it in Tropical Coast, Tails getting pissed off (which is serious no matter how many people complain about it), Eggman getting pissed off...I'm not sure what they could've done to make it more natural.

And like Azoo said, it was only a few cutscenes of an already very short game.

If it's a few cutscenes in a short game, it takes up a larger proportion of the game than if it was the same amount of scenes in a shorter game.

[-Mark-]

Eh, I guess you got a point there. :v I'm not gonna deny the writing in the Adventure games also suffered from some poopiness, but its the character interpretations that make it worthwhile for me.

 

The Adventure games suffered from terrible localisation and still outshone what we have now. 

 

That said, at least the Adventure game stories were 'localised'. From Colours onwards half the dialogue is completely rewritten between the English and Japanese scripts anyway.

[Kiah]

What's so bad about the series' current direction? A couple of things came to mind:

 

Sonic's Friends: I know this has been mentioned already, but I would like to give my take on it. I absolutely HATE the way Sonic's friends aside from Tails have been portrayed. Aside from running their mouths non-stop, they haven't done anything useful in who knows how long. And I find their roles of cheerleaders both pointless and annoying. What's worse is Sonic's extremely minimal to non-existent interaction with them. It just really rubs me the wrong way as such really doesn't show that they are his friends. All of Sonic's friends have charm and appeal as well as potential to the story, gameplay as well as the series, and it irritates me to no end to see that brushed to the side again and again.

 

 

Seriously, SEGA brought this massive entourage on board, so the least they should do is use them in at least a decent manner, even if they aren't playable.

 

The storytelling: The stories in recent Sonic games have gone from incomplete to nonexistent. I know that gameplay is the most important thing in a video game, but I am one of those that genuinely enjoys the stories; I think it is a nice "bonus" to the game to enjoy along with the gameplay. If a story is going to be told, it should be told correctly. I'm not saying the plot should be extravagant, deep long and drawn out, but it should have an actual plot, one that is substantial with a the basics: a beginning, a middle and an ending-with some balance with humor and seriousness among other things. This hasn't happened in a while in a Sonic game, only to have an incomplete story with plot holes, unanswered questions, and blown potential for character interaction among other offenses. I personally don't have many complaints regarding characterization, on a positive note. The last thing I want to do is be sitting there wondering what happened in regards to the story with a bunch of unanswered questions due to the story being incomplete and halfway told and feeling dissatisfied about it. 

 

Effort and Dedication: I really don't like the fact that I have shelled out $50 on a Sonic game, and after doing so I feel as if I didn't get my money's worth from each Sonic game. Especially with the games being so short on top of other issues like questionable controls and physics, but the games being so short irritate me more than anything. The short length of games shouldn't exist. There should be plenty to do in the games-things that are enjoyable at that and not just filler that irritates the player. The last Sonic game I feel I didn't get cheated out due to having so much to do and well as a ton of effort and dedication involved was Sonic Unleashed.  

 

I honestly don't feel that I should ever be sitting there thinking whether or not it was worth spending money to buy the game as well as feeling dissatisfied. Sonic Colors, Sonic Generations, and Sonic Lost World have all left me feeing dissatisfied after playing each game to varying degrees. Having dedication and complete genuine effort providing an exciting and excellent experience for the player should be standard. I think these things even needing to be mentioned as they aren't standard in Sonic game is ridiculous to be honest. Basically, I'm not feeling this sweet, short, and simple approach the Sonic games have taken as of late. The passion really seems to be lacking.

 

Those things aside, I don't think the direction of the series is that bad. When I think of the things that keep me involved with the series (the gameplay [issues aside, I still find it fun], level design, music, cutscenes, and Sonic's personality among other things), they outweigh the things that I'm fed up with regarding the series. I only hope that things improve from here and in turn will make the Sonic series much more enjoyable than it currently is.

[azoo]

It's not as if the game is never serious before Tails gets captured. We had the Zeti taking control after the conch was punted, discussions of what Eggman's machine would do and how they were going to stop it in Tropical Coast, Tails getting pissed off (which is serious no matter how many people complain about it), Eggman getting pissed off...I'm not sure what they could've done to make it more natural. If it's a few cutscenes in a short game, it takes up a larger proportion of the game than if it was the same amount of scenes in a shorter game.

Yeah, which would give it more room to flesh out and feel relatable if it was longer. Which was the point.

All those moments you mentioned is that nothing about them was fleshed out or given time to simmer really. They just kind of happened, followed by a void of nothing and/or disconnected bouts of gameplay (which didn't help you take it anymore seriously), and topped off by issues all fixed and wrapped up by the ending.

All of those things you mentioned would've been more justified if there was something for them to stand on, but besides that, it feels like a simple Saturday morning cartoon. Which would be fine if it weren't for me having a higher standard for a video game than some cheap cartoon.

[Chaos Incarnate]

I honestly don't mind the direction the series is going in, Sonic is still in a hell of a better place than he was during the so called "dark age of Sonic". I'm glad Lost World is trying to be experimental with the series' gameplay, as the boost was becoming too formulaic IMO. The one thing that's still pissing me off, however, is "sola sonica". We haven't been able to play as Tails, Knuckles, or anyone else aside from Sonic since 06. It's pretty much sheer paranoia at this point that we're still only playing as Sonic, games like Lost World, where a key focus of the level design was alternate routes, is absolutely perfect for Tails' flying and Knuckles' gliding abilities. I understand people were getting sick of "Sonic's shitty friends" after 06, but it's been nearly a decade since then. The key is to simply not shoe horn in unnecessary gameplay styles and have other characters control similar to Sonic, albeit with unique abilities that makes you want to play as him. 

[Diogenes]

Except that, along with much of the early-90s American 'assface' Sonic was shitty 90's 'raaaaaadical' marketing which was completely abandoned when Sonic Adventure came along, wiped the slate clean and overrode everything with a united, worldwide canon.

 

Western Sonic was like that in the early 90s. That personality has no place in the modern canon and clashes violently with the personality that's been established for him since Sonic Adventure.

"Come on ya big drip!"

"Look! It's a giant talking egg!"

"Or else what, ya big loser?"

"Way to go, Knucklehead!"

"Hey there, bolt brain!"

Guess I just imagined all those lines.

[azoo]

"Come on ya big drip!"

"Look! It's a giant talking egg!"

"Or else what, ya big loser?"

"Way to go, Knucklehead!"

"Hey there, bolt brain!"

Guess I just imagined all those lines.

Sonic was definitely advertised as "radical" in the SA era, no doubt. (S'why although I didn't say anything, I didn't exactly agree with that.)

And I don't mind it either, it's cheesy and great. But like said, it's all based on him having more to him than just those jokes. SLW gives you a bit more to work off of but little story or good pacing for it to be seen.

[-Mark-]

"Come on ya big drip!"

"Look! It's a giant talking egg!"

"Or else what, ya big loser?"

"Way to go, Knucklehead!"

"Hey there, bolt brain!"

Guess I just imagined all those lines.

 

Sorry, did you not see my post about the fucking awful localisation in the Adventure games?

 

Don't tar the script as a whole with the same brush as the piss-poor translation job. It's reasons like this that I can't stand playing Sonic games in English- and even then we get stuck with the massively-inaccurate English script as 'subtitles'.

 

I really wish they'd have a separate subtitle track that contained an actual translation of the Japanese dialogue. It's even more necessary now, seeing as half the lines are rewritten entirely.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

My only real issues that bug me with the games are how short they tend to be lately, and how Sonic Team can have a nasty tendency to overcompensate towards certain criticisms and go overboard with "fixing Sonic". Luckily, it's in the current state where I'm still having a blast with the franchise!

[Diogenes]

That's not tar, that's character.

As in, Sonic not being a boring loser.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Sorry, did you not see my post about the fucking awful localisation in the Adventure games?

 

Don't tar the script as a whole with the same brush as the piss-poor translation job.

Translations =/= Different script. Not that I've really had a problem with either when it comes to the Adventure games.

[-Mark-]

That's not tar, that's character.

As in, Sonic not being a boring loser.

 

People can have personality, character and charm without being annoying, hateable one-dimensional stereotypes. You know, like Sonic actually does pre-Colours (and moreso in Japanese).

 

 

Translations =/= Different script. Not that I've really had a problem with either when it comes to the Adventure games.

 

 

Maybe not, but pretty much every bad joke - shock, surprise!- wasn't a bad joke in Japanese, just an ordinary piece of dialogue. How about we play spot the difference for a second, shall we?

 

Sonic Adventure:

 

Japanese: "You running away?" 

English: "Come on, ya big drip! Where ya goin'?"

 

Japanese: "It's you... Dr. Eggman!!"

English: "Hey look, it's a giant talking egg"

 

And that's just dumb localisation. By the time Colours rolled around, a ton of the lines were completely different between English and Japanese. I'm talking not even having the same context or meaning at all.

[Vertekins]

Sorry, did you not see my post about the fucking awful localisation in the Adventure games?

 

Don't tar the script as a whole with the same brush as the piss-poor translation job.

 

I also find it interesting how the Japanese script writer for Colours actually went to some effort to actually cut down on the massive degree of cheese and flanderization rampant in the game's script by changing it considerably in many areas.

 

It's as if he really wanted to rectify how utterly obnoxious it could get.

[DarkRula]

Series direction?

As others have said, doesn't seem to be one.

The gameplay is take an idea, refine it, then throw it away for a new one. And while I like Lost World, I'd still take Generations over it. Although I'm still unsure whether the Adventure or Boost gameplay is better.

The story? I'm really honestly taking every story thrown into the games as one offs, as that's what they feel like. Generations gave us a birthday celebration - time for hero to save the day after monster ruins it. Colours was mad scientist making a theme park while covering us his actual plan, hero learns this and saves the day. They all just feel like one offs. But even then, that just goes to shots when characterisations are lacking. Lost World rectified that a bit, especially with the banter between heroes and villains.

But really, I take the Sonic games for the gameplay, which is different to more slower platformers. Especially 3D platformers. I still like to play Mario games, but the faster gameplay suits me more. I also liked having others playable in 3&K, and really want Sonic Team to take that approach to other playable characters.

And as I have said before, I feel that since Unleashed, we've had a sort of reboot in terms of characterisation. Sonic went from one end of the crack-up scale to the other, Sonic and Tails now feel like a brotherhood and Knuckles is the unmentioned friend - the uncool kid of the group. Amy feels almost the same as ever though, but a tad more serious. As for everyone else from the old cast - non-existant. We don't even see Chao anymore, not even as animals to rescue. Generations excluded, as that really was just an anniversary love letter to fans.

I'm not saying the direction is at all bad, but there are questionable things that make you wonder where most of it went.

[Soniman]

People can have personality, character and charm without being annoying, hateable one-dimensional stereotypes. You know, like Sonic actually does pre-Colours (and moreso in Japanese).

 

I can't find it in me to see how any post SA2 or pre-Colors characterization of Sonic was anything but one note and boring, but okay (Storybook games are exempt before anyone says anything, and even then I didn't find it that great).

[-Mark-]

I also find it interesting how the Japanese script writer for Colours actually went to some effort to actually cut down on the massive degree of cheese and flanderization rampant in the game's script by changing it considerably in many areas.

 

It's as if he really wanted to rectify how utterly obnoxious it could get.

 

Also, in Lost World the Deadly Six are nowhere near as offensively one-dimensional stereotypes in Japanese. They're still shallow as hell, but they're not disgustingly over the top trope embodiments to the extent that they are in English.

 

Japanese:

(Zeena): "Fine then, now I'll get serious"

 

English:

(Zeena): "Just as soon as my nails dry"

 

Is the Japanese line 'generic'? Arguably, yes. But I sure as hell know which one I'd prefer.